12/14 - 12/27 Games Discussion Thread

[DieHardYankee26]

Meh, I get it. We suck, the opponent is the only one providing the entertainment to match the ticket price. I would’ve booed the **** out of him, but I’m not mad at anyone respecting the greatness.

[Jeffx]

I'm just tired of seeing opposing players having career nights against my team, which is a Knick tradition going back to Wilt.

[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by 3304Life

Early season MVP race has been interesting as hell. Steph has faltered a little, KD has been there all season and his recent games aren’t doing him any harm at all. Jokic currently has a PER of 34.4 which is by far the best in any regular season in history and you can imagine that being maintained. Giannis is Giannis and Jarrett Allen is 8th in the race according to BBRef. Man I did not realize how ridiculous Jokic’s numbers had been this season. 34.4 is incredible. BBRef have changed how they show their postseason stats but the only time I’ve seen anything higher was LeBron’s 2009 playoff run (14 games) which was around 39 PER. Jokic’s larger sample size makes it even more impressive, regardless of the issues with PER and how heavily it favors bigs. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Posted this in the OT thread about a month ago

Spoiler

Quote:

Most likely not sustainable but Joker is damn near breaking the PER stat this season. 35 currently and no player has ever hit 32.. The only players with 31+ seasons are Giannis, Wilt (3 times), Jordan (4 times), LeBron (3 times), Steph, and Joker (last year). Currently leads the league in PER, WS, BPM, and VORP. also leads in FiveThirtyEights RAPTOR rating.. Seems like other all-in-one impact stats like PIPM, RAPM, LEBRON, and ESPN's real +/- and wins added haven't been updated this early into the year but one could assume he's leading all of those as well based on the rest. Playing just 31 mpg currently but averaging nearly 29/16/7 per 36, shooting just under 60% and 40% from 3. Posting career bests in DRtg, BLK%, DBPM, and his On-Off splits is a whopping +25.8... Currently 9-4 without Murray and basically without MPJ for how he's playing, not sure we've ever witnessed a carry job quite like this.. Not that a 13 game sample size tells us much but that's just ridiculous to see where he stands currently.

Quote:

I mostly brought that up because it’s unheard for a guy to be leading in all those at the same time. It happens, but it’s not normal. MJ, Bron, KG, David Robinson, those guys are all box score kings at their best and Joker is putting up back to back seasons that are right there with their best years.. But more so because his PER, Win Shares, BPM, if they were to hold they would all be the best all time. A basically +26 on/off split is also a top level carry job (LeBron was a +21 in 2009, KG a +24 in 2003). I realize they likely won’t hold, but even being better/equal than he was last year is crazy. Only Joker is doing it while scoring and rebounding at a peak Shaq rate, scoring as efficiently as Curry when he was the only unanimous MVP.. if he keeps this rate up he will actually be the only player other than Giannis to average 25 and 15 per 75 (from 74 on, I’m assuming Wilt did this too) only Joker also shoots like Larry Bird and might be the best passer in the NBA, and is doing it while carrying a young Bron/Minnesota KG type of load where statistically it seems his team would be a bottom tier team without him. And also winning. It’s pretty nuts actually. He’s so intriguing to me because he does it all without any polarizing gift or skill. He’s not a dominant freak athlete like Giannis, he can’t always get himself open and create space while being the best shooter ever like Curry, he’s not just an unstoppable offensive freak like KD, but he can basically perform just as well as all of them and just as efficiently too. He’s like a bigger, stronger, Larry Bird only more efficient and more dominant around the basket. Sadly just not quite exciting enough for most to appreciate.

The year he is having is just insane, as most of those stats mentioned a month ago are still holding pretty strong. His on/off split has jumped to a staggering +30.. To add to all of that Denver has what would be the 2nd highest offensive rating and defensive rating when Jokic is on the floor, those ratings when he is off the floor would be league worst.

If not for team record playing such a large role in voting, and just in general sustained well rounded dominance not being nearly as "exciting" as watching Steph shoot or a player leading the league in scoring Joker likely would be headed to the 2nd unanimous MVP in league history.

Giannis is suffering from the same issues Bron had. It's almost like his greatness is becoming "boring".. Routinely getting the job done without having highlights on top of highlights of hitting crazy jumpers just doesn't move the excitement or generate the same buzz.

Speaking of LeBron if this run he's on continues (last 8 games 30/7/8 1.6 steels, 1.3 blocks, 52%) and the Lakers start to win some games then his name should at least start entering that mix as well. Especially if that's what the Lakers have to get from him to not look like ***.

Off the top of my head, it's hard to remember a time when the league had 5 guys as good as those 5 all at one time like this. Joker could very well end up having the best year ever in terms of stats, advanced stats, impact stats, and carry job with his next two best players out and still finish 3rd in MVP voting and nobody be upset with the outcome because of how good Curry and KD are playing and their teams winning.

I pre-season picked KD to take home MVP, with all aspects considered right now I think he should be leading. So I feel pretty strong with that choice but you couldn't go wrong with Curry, Joker, Giannis, and possibly LeBron if the team struggles move past them and he continues to play like this and look healthy.. Though he's likely out of the mix for 1st place IMO.

Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessaPackMan

PER still holds a lot of weight to people?

I think PER has been surpassed by better all-in-one metrics but I still think it does have some value and is better than not using any all-in-one or advanced stats at all when looking at the whole picture. But no I definitely wouldn't look at PER as my only or main argument of a player's production.

One of the flaws mentioned by 3304Life was how it favors bigs, in large that is because the biggest detractor from the stat itself is how negatively turnovers effect the formula. I believe turnovers are the largest negative you can have so guards are obviously penalized largely while things like giving up rebounds or points at the rim isn't measured without play tracking so bigs aren't really negatively effected the same in this measure.

Considering how much Joker actually handles and passes the ball though it's almost more impressive for him in this particular instance. Also makes it more impressive that MJ and Bron are basically the PER kings for a career given their positions, play-style, and usage. (MJ 1st all-time, Bron 3rd but will likely go down as he ages given it's an average, MJ led the league 7 times LeBron 6).. Even especially so with Bron given his passing volume.. As a comparison Magic Johnson has never lead the league in PER and his career best year is just a tad lower than Bron's career average.

[bigeastbumrush]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jeffx

I'm just tired of seeing opposing players having career nights against my team, which is a Knick tradition going back to Wilt.

I have more of a problem with GSW openly trying to sort of “wait” so he could break the record at MSG.

That’s corny to me.

I’m glad Curry got the record. But I also would’ve liked to see him get hard-fouled and knocked to the ground just off GP.

[3304Life]

Stephen Silas has just left the game towards the end of the first quarter.

I have no idea why that happened. Hopefully not a KD type situation where a test returns positive during the game.

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[jeebs9]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigeastbumrush

Dell was hitting 3s too last night. https://twitter.com/notjuansburner/s...238341632?s=21

Woooooow names? It was sad to see them seating in difference places. Remove basketball and the kids but man it's got to suck

Quote: Originally Posted by 3304Life

Stephen Silas has just left the game towards the end of the first quarter. I have no idea why that happened. Hopefully not a KD type situation where a test returns positive during the game. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Oh man that sucks. Hopefully it's not the case.

[3304Life]

47-16 lead for the ‘decent 7th seed in the east’ Cleveland Cavaliers.

Dub does not deserve that shade but I won’t let that one go.


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[ojandpizza]

Jeebs asking for their names


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