2011 attendance in non-traditional markets

[jyoung]

I think the main reason people want to see the team move from Phoenix is because they are bankrupt and operating at significant losses due to a combination of a bad lease and bad attendance.

It hurts the league financially to keep the team there, because the NHL has been paying Phoenix's operating losses.

Phoenix has a good team right now. In a market where hockey was more popular, there is no doubt a playoff team like Phoenix would become profitable.

But the NHL seems insistent on continuing to throw their funding into the Phoenix money pit.

[GrandMaster B]

I am not crying. I would love for you to have more teams. Just leave ours alone. The problem I have is you guys believe everything you read or hear. We had a great fan base when we first got here. You can't deny that. We have had poor ownership. You can't deny that. You think we would of made a profit by selling out all of our games every year? Not likely since that would of still put us around 18th in attendance with an owner who would of spent the money investing in his trucking business.

Look at Dallas..they have a great team but are losing money. Why? Because their owners are incompetent and they are trying to find a new one. Yes, right now as it stands we are lacking in fans and many still won't return. Maybe because of the drive to Glendale and maybe because of the uncertainty still surrounding the team or maybe because of the economy. Who knows. I don't have the answers but I do know that your media does not have all of the facts and am tired of them making up stuff to get your hopes up.

I would like to give our new owner, if and when he gets here, a chance to see if he can turn it around. If not, then fine.....you guys win. But I think a chance with someone who genuinely cares about hockey as an owner for the first time here would be something to hope for.

[kehlis]

Quote: Originally Posted by DrJones

Spoiled from inheriting an instant Stanley Cup contender with 3 Hall of Famers at their peak and a rotating cast of high-profile acquisitions (Bourque, Blake, Fleury, Kariya, Selanne)? Denver isn't really much of a hockey market, and everyone was climbing aboard the Avs bandwagon while waiting for the Nuggets and Rockies to finally become competitive?

Probably a good portion of it. It never hurts to have a team come to town and be good right away.

I disagree that it isn't much of a hockey market though. I'm not saying it's a GREAT hockey market, but I don't feel like the hockey interest is too low in the state to generate such low attendance numbers.

When the Avalanche moved into Denver, Colorado College was having it's best years so that may have added to hockey excitement in Colorado but of the different states I've lived and visited, aside from living here in Pittsburgh, Colorado showed the most interest in hockey (fair to note the other places I lived were Montana and I was too young to remember, and New Mexico so we can just throw them out of the mix) but I also lived in Northeast PA for 10 years (1.5 hours north of Philly) and would have to beg the bars to put hockey games on.

Quote: Originally Posted by GrandMaster B

I am not crying. I would love for you to have more teams. Just leave ours alone. The problem I have is you guys believe everything you read or hear. We had a great fan base when we first got here. You can't deny that. We have had poor ownership. You can't deny that. You think we would of made a profit by selling out all of our games every year? Not likely since that would of still put us around 18th in attendance with an owner who would of spent the money investing in his trucking business. Look at Dallas..they have a great team but are losing money. Why? Because their owners are incompetent and they are trying to find a new one. Yes, right now as it stands we are lacking in fans and many still won't return. Maybe because of the drive to Glendale and maybe because of the uncertainty still surrounding the team or maybe because of the economy. Who knows. I don't have the answers but I do know that your media does not have all of the facts and am tired of them making up stuff to get your hopes up. I would like to give our new owner, if and when he gets here, a chance to see if he can turn it around. If not, then fine.....you guys win. But I think a chance with someone who genuinely cares about hockey as an owner for the first time here would be something to hope for.

I think you're getting a little too defensive here, you seem to be taking this as a personal attack when it really isn't. No one has anything against the city of Phoenix, they are just making observations (which you disagree with, which is fine).


But I'm curious, and I don't want to you take this question the wrong way because I know you have adamantly defended the Coyote fan base for a couple years now.

What observations do you see that make the Coyote fanbase great? Again, I am not asking this to troll, or start an argument, I am just curious because to people not in Phoenix, it doesn't look very strong.

[DrJones]

Quote: Originally Posted by kehlis

Probably a good portion of it. It never hurts to have a team come to town and be good right away. I disagree that it isn't much of a hockey market though. I'm not saying it's a GREAT hockey market, but I don't feel like the hockey interest is too low in the state to generate such low attendance numbers.

I was just throwing those out there as possibilities. There's got to be some reason why an exciting, winning team isn't drawing. Makes me wonder if Avs management is simply looking to boost attendance by bringing Forsberg back. Surely they don't think Foppa has much to offer on the ice at this point.

[DrJones]

Quote: Originally Posted by kehlis

What observations do you see that make the Coyote fanbase great? Again, I am not asking this to troll, or start an argument, I am just curious because to people not in Phoenix, it doesn't look very strong.

What I'd like to know is why Coyotes attendance is down from last year (62% capacity vs 68% in 09/10). 4th best record in the league, exciting playoff series with Detroit, followed by continued on-ice success this year. Ownership situation, while still dicey, appears to be way more solid than this time last year. What gives?

[kehlis]

Quote: Originally Posted by DrJones

I was just throwing those out there as possibilities. There's got to be some reason why an exciting, winning team isn't drawing.

They have a weird attendence pattern. Last Saturday when they played at 1, it was a complete sellout.

I don't follow the Nuggets, maybe in a competition with them they aren't winning and fans in Denver are being forced to choose between one or the other.

As much as you and I hate it, the NBA probably wins out in that battle (for reasons I can't explain).

Quote:

Makes me wonder if Avs management is simply looking to boost attendance by bringing Forsberg back. Surely they don't think Foppa has much to offer on the ice at this point.

My first thought when I realized this was a serious comeback was WTF.

I don't see where he fits in at all...

[Kobalt]

Although Avs have a need at LW, the main reason for Forsberg is selling tickets.

[slickdtc]

I don't know if I buy the Nuggets v. Avalanche thing. The Nugs have been a playoff team the last 7 years (I believe every season since Carmelo has been there), but they've never been a dominant force. This year, last I saw they were 23-17... hardly world beaters. And the fans are booing Carmelo because he's about to leave either in a trade or as a free agent. If I was a sports fan in Denver, I'd have jumped on the Avs bandwagon by now. They're young and up and coming, while the Nuggets seem to be going in the opposite direction.

I always thought Denver was a good sports city because they've had successful teams (Broncos, Avs, now Nuggets and Rockies). I guess that was all a facade because once the Broncos and Avs started struggling, they don't seem as interested. I just figured, cold weather city meant decent hockey market. Clearly, NOT the case. Damn shame too.

NHL needs to cut the crap. Why do you want to keep teams in places where they lose money? The NHL is a business, but they're babying these places.