Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

[sperlz_99]

Every game I play on any difficulty. Just give the ball to deangelo Russell and the cpu cant defend him and don't make the changes required to stop him from getting easy access to the basket. Really hope the devs have a look at this.

This is ps5 gameplay as of 11/25

https://youtu.be/c2dVFebBSgA

[CujoMatty]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I'm super frustrated with this as well.

I'm glad they fixed the defender hedge issue where he would run away from the ball but the defender still cant get into position to help and I can score pretty much every possession with a fast player coming off a pick.

Last night I had some success by increasing cpu lateral speed to 100.

[Dione2014]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Every game I play on any difficulty. Just give the ball to deangelo Russell and the cpu cant defend him and don't make the changes required to stop him from getting easy access to the basket. Really hope the devs have a look at this.

This is ps5 gameplay as of 11/25

https://youtu.be/c2dVFebBSgA

It's fixable if you play offline. Yiu may not want to do this, but you have to lower acceleration and speed with ball slider. That way the cpu has enough time to react because the ball handler won't be as fast. Its a bandaid, but it works.

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[rudyjuly2]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

If you lower acceleration and boost lateral quickness does this make normal iso defence too tough? Curious if guys can find a slider fix for this.

[sperlz_99]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

It's fixable if you play offline. Yiu may not want to do this, but you have to lower acceleration and speed with ball slider. That way the cpu has enough time to react because the ball handler won't be as fast. Its a bandaid, but it works.

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Definitely not an ideal workaround but could be a temporary solution. What number did you lower these too and did you do it for the cpu as well? Might at least stop the cpu with some of the paint cheese that they do in offense too

[EccentricMeat]

Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

A lot of sliders go into this. First would be to increase the Speed/Accel WITHOUT Ball (Min) settings so that slow players don’t move like they’re stuck in mud (they’ll still be slow, but these are NBA players; they’re not THAT slow). I’d set these to 50 or 55, depending on personal preference and skill level.

Next would be to increase the Contest Shot tendency. I have this at 100 for both USER and CPU. Likewise you’ll need to increase the Drive/Inside Contact Shot Frequency sliders to 100 for both as well so that nearby defenders actually trigger an animation when contesting shots inside.

You’ll also want to make sure Help Defense Strength, On Ball Defense, and Defensive Awareness are all increased to at least 70 or 75, but could probably go even higher depending on your skill level. Note that these three do NOT have to be set to the same value, but I wouldn’t set any one of them lower than 70 for the CPU.

Last, decrease the Acceleration slider to around 35. This is important as it will add a more weighted feel to movement on both ends of the court, will help to further highlight the difference between the fastest and slowest players on the court, while not outright nerfing acceleration in its entirety.

Lateral Quickness really won’t help with this issue. Think of LQ as the blow-by slider, because it really just controls how quickly a player can turn a tight corner when defending the drive. If it’s set low, almost any player can just blow past them and drive to the hoop. Set high, they’ll stick with the player and even force them away from basket (depending on the matchup between dribbler and defender).

Try all this out and let me know how it goes, and we can tweak from there. If it becomes too easy to hit the big as he cuts to the basket or leaks out for a shot, you’ll have to increase the Play Passing Lane tendency. If the defenders still don’t put up enough resistance at the rim, we’ll have to increase the Layup Defense Strength sliders as well.

[sperlz_99]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

A lot of sliders go into this. First would be to increase the Speed/Accel WITHOUT Ball (Min) settings so that slow players don’t move like they’re stuck in mud (they’ll still be slow, but these are NBA players; they’re not THAT slow). I’d set these to 50 or 55, depending on personal preference and skill level.

Next would be to increase the Contest Shot tendency. I have this at 100 for both USER and CPU. Likewise you’ll need to increase the Drive/Inside Contact Shot Frequency sliders to 100 for both as well so that nearby defenders actually trigger an animation when contesting shots inside.

You’ll also want to make sure Help Defense Strength, On Ball Defense, and Defensive Awareness are all increased to at least 70 or 75, but could probably go even higher depending on your skill level. Note that these three do NOT have to be set to the same value, but I wouldn’t set any one of them lower than 70 for the CPU.

Last, decrease the Acceleration slider to around 35. This is important as it will add a more weighted feel to movement on both ends of the court, will help to further highlight the difference between the fastest and slowest players on the court, while not outright nerfing acceleration in its entirety.

Lateral Quickness really won’t help with this issue. Think of LQ as the blow-by slider, because it really just controls how quickly a player can turn a tight corner when defending the drive. If it’s set low, almost any player can just blow past them and drive to the hoop. Set high, they’ll stick with the player and even force them away from basket (depending on the matchup between dribbler and defender).

Try all this out and let me know how it goes, and we can tweak from there. If it becomes too easy to hit the big as he cuts to the basket or leaks out for a shot, you’ll have to increase the Play Passing Lane tendency. If the defenders still don’t put up enough resistance at the rim, we’ll have to increase the Layup Defense Strength sliders as well.

That seems a lot of messing around. I'm not holding out hope that pick and roll will be fixed until at least 2k22 but I hope it is because I can't play the game in the knowledge that I can freely score at will on any difficulty with a fast player

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

That seems a lot of messing around. I'm not holding out hope that pick and roll will be fixed until at least 2k22 but I hope it is because I can't play the game in the knowledge that I can freely score at will on any difficulty with a fast player

It is and it isn’t. Try the settings I posted and let me know if it’s any better. It can’t hurt, right?

[sperlz_99]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

It is and it isn’t. Try the settings I posted and let me know if it’s any better. It can’t hurt, right?

I get your point but I've never been a big fan of the sliders. I believe the devs make the game how they do because they feel that by doing that you have the best balanced game for what the game engine will allow at that time. If you start messing with the sliders then you are effectively fixing one thing but potentially breaking another.

I believe the issue here is not necessarily the players being too fast but the defense not having the ability to react quickly enough to deal with quick players off the pick and roll.

I did do a bit if messing around with the sliders and put acceleration to zero for human controlled players and I still managed to get to the bucket frequently.

[sperlz_99]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

It is and it isn’t. Try the settings I posted and let me know if it’s any better. It can’t hurt, right?

Just tried them and I'm getting the exact same results as before. Give the ball dangelo russell. Call a screen, attack the basket and no resistance from the defence. The help defense is just watching him throw in an easy layup each time

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I love sliders. Great way to tweak the game based on your particular skill set. That said, I don’t see how sliders are going to fix this issue. I don’t try to abuse things but there are 3 issues I have:
1) Screens are too effective. The on ball defender gets taken completely out of the play too easily. Let them slip easier or have them trail closer.
2) The off ball defender is a moron. They should be dropping more imo. And if you do drop stay closer to the basket and take away the easy bucket for both players. Dare the mid range shot.
3) If the off ball defender doesn’t drop and either switches or hedges the game needs a third defender to cheat closer to the basket for help. If it stays a two man PNR it gives the offense a huge advantage.

[strosdood]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I love sliders. Great way to tweak the game based on your particular skill set. That said, I don’t see how sliders are going to fix this issue. I don’t try to abuse things but there are 3 issues I have:

1) Screens are too effective. The on ball defender gets taken completely out of the play too easily. Let them slip easier or have them trail closer.

2) The off ball defender is a moron. They should be dropping more imo. And if you do drop stay closer to the basket and take away the easy bucket for both players. Dare the mid range shot.

3) If the off ball defender doesn’t drop and either switches or hedges the game needs a third defender to cheat closer to the basket for help. If it stays a two man PNR it gives the offense a huge advantage.

It’s improved a ton...... it’s not a glaring advantage like it was........ Czar has said that these things have to be handled delicately as a “fix” could break the game if not implemented properly.......... if it was a easy fix to make it perfect it would be done already and on top of that I don’t want PnR to be perfect because it’s not perfect in real life


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[ch46647]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

DaCzar is now responsible for AI defense. I would say the defense will be in great shape by 22’ or 23’.

In addition to AI improvements, I would like the animation team to add a ton of contextual animations for both on-ball and off-ball defense.

[sperlz_99]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

It’s improved a ton...... it’s not a glaring advantage like it was........ Czar has said that these things have to be handled delicately as a “fix” could break the game if not implemented properly.......... if it was a easy fix to make it perfect it would be done already and on top of that I don’t want PnR to be perfect because it’s not perfect in real life


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What you can see with my video I have posted is that unfortunately with some quick players, such as deangelo russell, it is a glaring advantage. On 12 minute quarters I can put up 80+ points in the paint a game on hall of fame difficulty by calling a simple screen.

The defense cannot handle these kind of quick on the ball players currently in the game and for me that makes it impossible to play the game at this moment. When I had been playing before with different players I didn't spot this but just try with russell of Timberwolves and call a screen and see how easy it is to get to the hoop time and time again with the defense showing no kind of resolve to stop him.

[strosdood]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

What you can see with my video I have posted is that unfortunately with some quick players, such as deangelo russell, it is a glaring advantage. On 12 minute quarters I can put up 80+ points in the paint a game on hall of fame difficulty by calling a simple screen.

The defense cannot handle these kind of quick on the ball players currently in the game and for me that makes it impossible to play the game at this moment. When I had been playing before with different players I didn't spot this but just try with russell of Timberwolves and call a screen and see how easy it is to get to the hoop time and time again with the defense showing no kind of resolve to stop him.

The little piece of your video I watched u continually just spammed the PNR untill u got the result u wanted.......I think if u search for a way to cheese the game u can do that and always will...... however if u play sim basketball and don’t attempt to cheese then it can be a fairly well played game with slider tweaks........ it’s not perfect but it’s a lot better than it was a couple weeks ago


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