Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

[jk31]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Basketball games are primarily about generating (and preventing) quality shots. Generally, the team that executes better is going to win the game, because they're going to overcome shooting variance over a long period of time - that's the kicker that a lot of people don't seem to understand.

good explanation! thats describes the game of basketball very well!

Imagine in Street Fighter if 20-hit combos only landed 37% of the time. Or how infuriating it would be if headshots in a shooter only registered randomly.

I mean if you want to describe the state of green releases that we have right now as a metaphor in shooter games it's not "think about if you aim for the head and it only registers randomly" but more "imagine you wouldn't have to aim for the head (= work for a good shot) as long as you press the trigger the right amount of time. if you do that, the bullet will hit even if you aim somewhere else or have a wall between you and the target.

[Bahnzo]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Haha psssst, let's go in the wayback machine to where I talked about this in 2016 multiple times:

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...undrum-part-1/

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...undrum-part-2/

But also the conundrum at the time that "real" Steph would destroy "video game" Steph because of the amount of silly shots he can make that you can't make in 2K.

Anyway, yeah, it's not a new issue, but from a video game theory perspective, it's not as simple to solve beyond removing green releases as step one of a larger rewrite you'd have to do of jump shooting overall.

Interesting stuff. I was amazed that back then, 3pt shooting % in the game was actually less than what was happening in the NBA. That's certainly not the case these days, eh? It seems back then the issue was people didn't feel like they were making enough threes, so 2K tried to tweak that. But they went MUCH too far.

I did notice at the end of part 1 you mentioned how badges weren't taken into account. Badges have made hitting open three's automatic these days, even if you don't "green" the shot meter. It's a big part of the problem with the game, regardless of what mode you are playing, but it's the biggest problem in the MyTeam and MyPlayer modes.

[Bahnzo]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Imagine in Street Fighter if 20-hit combos only landed 37% of the time. Or how infuriating it would be if headshots in a shooter only registered randomly.

Except this isn't Street Fighter, or Call of Duty. It's supposed to be a sports simulation (I guess we can split hairs on the simulation aspect), and in sports there is an amount of luck. And even then, no amount of skill amounts to a 100% rate of anything.

I guess it comes down to what people want. And unfortunately(IMO) too many people think they are being punished if they do everything right and still don't get a score (or prevent one).

[MakaveliLPC]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Everyone keeps bringing up green releases, the online community, etc. and i get it. But like I said, the easy solution is to incorporate these real percentages when playing with SHOT METER OFF, AND THE REAL PLAYER FG% SETTING ON.

If I understand correctly, online games are played with shot meter on by default. This won't effect that, everyone can have their cake and online players can keep their green releases.

I mean the freaking setting is called REAL PLAYER FG%. Is it too much to ask that when the setting is turned on, you get real player fg %, lol.

[MakaveliLPC]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Haha psssst, let's go in the wayback machine to where I talked about this in 2016 multiple times:

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...undrum-part-1/

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...undrum-part-2/

But also the conundrum at the time that "real" Steph would destroy "video game" Steph because of the amount of silly shots he can make that you can't make in 2K.

Anyway, yeah, it's not a new issue, but from a video game theory perspective, it's not as simple to solve beyond removing green releases as step one of a larger rewrite you'd have to do of jump shooting overall.

Damn, great write-up. I wonder what those numbers would look like in 2K22

[The 24th Letter]

Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Everyone keeps bringing up green releases, the online community, etc. and i get it. But like I said, the easy solution is to incorporate these real percentages when playing with SHOT METER OFF, AND THE REAL PLAYER FG% SETTING ON.

If I understand correctly, online games are played with shot meter on by default. This won't effect that, everyone can have their cake and online players can keep their green releases.

I mean the freaking setting is called REAL PLAYER FG%. Is it too much to ask that when the setting is turned on, you get real player fg %, lol.

because OS can’t pass up a good “The state of NBA 2K and how online gaming is ruining it”discussion….whether it applies or not

To clarify though, are you saying open shots go in too much even when playing on RPFG%?

You should check out gu8’s settings as well

[Bahnzo]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Everyone keeps bringing up green releases, the online community, etc. and i get it. But like I said, the easy solution is to incorporate these real percentages when playing with SHOT METER OFF, AND THE REAL PLAYER FG% SETTING ON.

If I understand correctly, online games are played with shot meter on by default. This won't effect that, everyone can have their cake and online players can keep their green releases.

I mean the freaking setting is called REAL PLAYER FG%. Is it too much to ask that when the setting is turned on, you get real player fg %, lol.

I'm pretty sure you can play online using real player FG%. Nobody uses it because why would you when you can hit everything instead? You are at a HUGE disadvantage if you do use real%

[loso_34]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Except this isn't Street Fighter, or Call of Duty. It's supposed to be a sports simulation (I guess we can split hairs on the simulation aspect), and in sports there is an amount of luck. And even then, no amount of skill amounts to a 100% rate of anything.

I guess it comes down to what people want. And unfortunately(IMO) too many people think they are being punished if they do everything right and still don't get a score (or prevent one).

The amount of latency makes it incomparable to SF as well. I get the “comp” players don’t want any luck(RNG) involved but why can’t they have separate game styles.

They went too far this year and I think it was to mitigate the modded controllers.

[gu8lal8]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

because OS can’t pass up a good “The state of NBA 2K and how online gaming is ruining it”discussion….whether it applies or not

To clarify though, are you saying open shots go in too much even when playing on RPFG%?

You should check out gu8’s settings as well

I've been playing offline only vs CPU and vs another USER and correct me if I'm wrong, but all Real Player % (Shot Timing) does, is eliminate shot timing impact

I don't like to tinker with sliders too much, so these are my settings ATM:

2K CPU @ USER Sliders (CPU-DEF:Hof/CPU-OFF:SS) @ (USER-DEF:AS/USER-OFF:SS)

Shot Meter - Off
Shot Timing - Shots only (or Real Player %) ****
Perfect Release - None
Perfect Release SFX - None
Player Indicator - Circle
Player Indicator Color - Yellow
Free Throw Timing - Real Player %

CPU @ USER (Updated Jan. 25 2022)

Free Throw Difficulty 100

Offense 50
Inside Shot Success - 50** @ 50** (USER -4 when using Real Player %)
Close Shot Success - 50** @ 50** (USER -4 when using Real Player %)
Mid-Range Shot Success - 50** @ 50** (USER -4 when using Real Player %)
3PT Success - 50** @ 50** (USER -4 when using Real Player %)
Layup Success - 50** @ 50** (USER -4 when using Real Player %)
Shot Timing Impact - 0 @ 50 (=CPU Real Player %)
Dunk in Traffic Success - 54** @ 50
Alley-Oop Success - 50** @ 52** (USER -4 when using Real Player %)
Contact Shot Success - 50** @ 50** (USER -4 when using Real Player %)

Defense 50
Driving Contact Shot Frequency - 50 @ 55
Inside Contact Shot Frequency - 50 @ 55

Attributes 50
Tendencies 50
Fouls 100
Movement Default

If shooting% is too high/low, change offense sliders with **** -2/+2
or when inside/close/layup shooting% is too high/low, change those offense sliders with -2/+2
or when midrange/3pt shooting% is too high/low, change those offense sliders with -2/+2

The problems I'm having ATM:
- Not enough CPU FT attempts (legacy issue)
- Not enough turnovers (legacy issue)
All other stats are ok
- CPU on ball defense is ok when going 1 on 1 but once I start running plays or manual P&R the CPU team defense seems braindead and I can get to the rim or FT line at will (only in the last 4-5 days)
CPU team defense used to be ok when I set CPU Defensive Gameplan & Matchups before the game, but not in the last 4-5 days

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Except this isn't Street Fighter, or Call of Duty. It's supposed to be a sports simulation (I guess we can split hairs on the simulation aspect)

It's a video game. NBA 2K is as much a sports simulation as Call of Duty is a war simulator, or Street Fighter an anime combat simulator.

And in sports there is an amount of luck.

Yes, but the DEGREE of luck is the issue.

Luck is largely absent from good video game design, ESPECIALLY mechanically.

Luck creates tension and takes away control from the player. In a game where they are clearly trying to give the player control, every jumpshot shouldn't feel like a casino slot machine.

Additionally, NBA players only shoot 37% when "open" because defenses, game atmospheres, the caliber of the shooter, and all the other human variables, etc, are VASTLY more intense than they are in NBA 2K. Anyone focused on that number is looking solely at the result and not the process.

(Which, again, the variance of which is typically reduced over a greater passage of time than what 2K is asking of players).

I guess it comes down to what people want. And unfortunately(IMO) too many people think they are being punished if they do everything right and still don't get a score (or prevent one).

I think there is a wide gap between the number of players who ARE "doing everything right" and the number of players who THINK they are.

The latter group is the one paying the bills at the end of the day.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

I think there is a wide gap between the number of players who ARE "doing everything right" and the number of players who THINK they are.

The latter group is the one paying the bills at the end of the day.

Quoted for truth.

Especially the last sentence. The "sim" crowd will never generate the amount of money/revenue that the "want to be great at everything" crowd can.

[lemarflacco]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Online play throws everything into wack. I can't imagine shooting 37% on open threes against an opponent. Im sure everyone would just pack the paint in this scenario making it impossible to drive.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Online play throws everything into wack. I can't imagine shooting 37% on open threes against an opponent. Im sure everyone would just pack the paint in this scenario making it impossible to drive.

Not really. 37% is still really a respectable 3PT shooting percentage. Since basketball videogames typically have higher percentages, that 37% would be closer to 40% if anything. The key to winning a basketball is still the same no matter what. The key is having more points than your opponent when the game clock ends. You win the game whether the score is 30 to 25 or 90 to 60.

The current gamer really believes that the key to winning is burying your opponents under a barrage of 3's which is the reason why a LOT of them don't have a Plan A, B, C, or D when they can't knock down 3's. The problem that we're running into is that NBA 2K made the 3PT shot TOO easy to convert, so the game becomes exactly what these current gamers think basketball is...shooting nothing, but 3's. Packing the paint is not a difficult defense to play against if you know and understand other scoring aspects of basketball.

Do you think my 70% winning percentage in NBA 2K11 was because I only knew how to shoot 3's?

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

I personally wouldn’t want to play any type H2H with a percentage cap…If that makes me non-sim I can live with it.

It’d be like playing Madden with the running backs capped at their yard per carry or QB’s tied to their throwing percentage.

There’s a reason the “rubber-banding” discussion hasn’t happened this year….it’s something all sides of the crowd has discussed for years now…

I see the high % on 3’s as something that could be solved in a better way….but that’s another topic

[Bahnzo]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Online play throws everything into wack. I can't imagine shooting 37% on open threes against an opponent. Im sure everyone would just pack the paint in this scenario making it impossible to drive.

If only YOU shot 37% while your opponents shot 90%, then that would be a problem.

And right now, the paint *is* packed...basically. With how easy blocks are, the inside game is seemingly dead, even with the 5 Out offenses. Any big man who can't shoot the three is considered useless online as well. Try to do any sort of backdown with a hook or fade and it'll be swatted right out of the arena.