Madden NFL 23 Gameplay Trailer - Full Details on the New FieldSENSE Gameplay System

[Hassan Darkside]

Quote: Originally Posted by canes21

It actually isn't that complicated. EA already has all of the data being tracked that is necessary, the only change, simplistically, would be to no longer have the CPU QB throws be tethered to the route, but to give them the ability to throw to any blade of grass within or outside of the catch radius. Let me use some quality art to demonstrate this. Below is what Madden does right now. It tracks the player positions, sees who is open, and throws it along their route. Currently Madden sees the WR has x amount of space between him and the nearest defender(s) and categorizes him as open, then the QB throws the pass along his route, in this case he attempts to hit him in stride on the in route. This is how the CPU QB's have worked for a very long time. It makes sense. It's also dated. Below is what EA can give the CPU the ability to see if they made the requested changes. In the image above, let's assume the WR is sort of squatting as if he has turned around from a curl route. We see where he is, we see where the DB is lingering, and we see the catch radius that we know the game tracks already. What is new to the equation is what our brains already calculate and is something these systems could calculate 1,000 times over for all targets on the field every second without breaking a sweat if they wanted to. It's where the QB should throw the ball to guarantee the WR can reach the throw and to have the smallest chance of the DB getting to the ball if thrown accurately. What's new in this scenario is the CPU QB no longer throws the ball in a way that is tethered to the route. They now use the already tracked player position data and the already tracked catch radius and a simple math algorithm says throw the ball here for the most optimal result. Now the QB is throwing the ball based off of the WR catch radius, not the outdated tethered way. These types of calculations are nothing to process and can be done many times over per fraction of a second. You could literally have the 50 most optimal throws for each WR be calculated 100 times over per second and your console won't break a sweat. And if you are calculating 50 throws, that means some of them will likely be very poor decisions and when you use the QB ratings like awareness and have it roll what throw they make, this means the poorly rated QB's will make bad throws like in real life, and the guys like Aaron Rodgers are going to make the most optimal throws over and over and you'll just sit there in amazement when he throws a fade in the back of the end zone that was so perfect that no coverage could have stopped it and that is something the CPU has never had the ability to do. If EA can open it up to where the CPU QB's now pass the ball based on the catch radius and are no longer tethered to the route only, then the passing game will be revolutionized in this series. The calculations that are needed are not complex and the game already tracks all of the necessary data and already does most of the work needed right now.

I think your idea works for having the CPU utilize the new passing mechanics, but it doesn't really extend beyond that.

You sum up the EA AI QB progressions well with this: It tracks the player positions, sees who is open, and throws it along their route.

However, NFL QBs don't make decisions this way. Madden would need to allow their CPU AI to work through progressions, from primary read to check down based off of other QB ratings like Awareness or whatever.

Sure, the CPU being able to throw a pass to a curl where only their WR could get it would be great, but it would also be annoying when they throw that every single time because they register that being open and that location being the best location for the football. That would just create over-accurate QBs.

AI needs to also figure out how to not always make the optimal throw. I'm thinking like that Baker Mayfield video that was put together of him never throwing to a wide open OBJ. CPU AI rarely ever passes up open receivers. CPU AI wouldn't look at a one-on-one matchup on the outside with a 6'3 receiver on a 5'9 corner and think that's more favorable than hitting the tight end on a drag route. It's the former where I'd love to see the CPU AI think to prioritize getting that receiver the ball by putting it somewhere where he can only make a play on it. I'd also want to see some QBs good at making that throw, some not. Some QBs good at taking that match-up, some prefer the check downs.

There's also that other tier of QBs, often young QBs, that don't understand where to put the ball in a situation like you mentioned. I feel like CPU AI should be able to differentiate between a Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers vs a Jalen Hurts trying to hit the same receiver.

[MoreThanAGamer]

Quote: Originally Posted by ripcandlestickpark

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was M18 where we didn't get any gameplay footage until, like, a week or two before release? The year they made the Frostbite transition. There was a time where the Madden subreddit was a halfway decent place to discuss the game, but it's been a cesspool for the last 3-4 years. Just the same Ryan Moody/SoftDrinkTV talking points repeated ad nauseam. As for the actual trailer, most of it looks promising (can't say I have much interest in the new passing mechanics, though). Wether it'll benefit the game as advertised at launch and not be adversely affected by the patching cycle remains to be seen, of course. The most recent Madden I played was M21 for the Xbox One, so I'm very anxious to (hopefully) get my beta code soon.

I don't understand why some people don't like constant criticism by others who don't like a product especially if said product can be proven to be identical every year, same legacy issues, or rehashing old features.

But it's supposed to be okay to say, "I'm having a BLAST", "Best Madden EVER!!!!", "Going on the right direction.", "Already pre-ordered.", etc........ every year that the game releases. It's annoying as heck to you know.

If it's annoying for people to constantly criticize Madden it sure as heck is annoying for people to constantly give EA the benefit of the doubt every year and act like the game is worth pre-orders and full retail every year. If people are gonna love it every year just stop commenting and coming to forums too. Go play the game.

This was not directed at you in particular.

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by MoreThanAGamer

I don't understand why some people don't like constant criticism by others who don't like a product especially if said product can be proven to be identical every year, same legacy issues, or rehashing old features. But it's supposed to be okay to say, "I'm having a BLAST", "Best Madden EVER!!!!", "Going on the right direction.", "Already pre-ordered.", etc........ every year that the game releases. It's annoying as heck to you know. If it's annoying for people to constantly criticize Madden it sure as heck is annoying for people to constantly give EA the benefit of the doubt every year and act like the game is worth pre-orders and full retail every year. If people are gonna love it every year just stop commenting and coming to forums too. Go play the game. This was not directed at you in particular.

There's a balancing act and a degree of consideration for others.

Often times those who have criticisms have a tendency to spout their criticisms every chance they get akin to walking around the forum/subreddit with a virtual megaphone.

Some people enjoy the game and should be allowed to do so. If those people make a thread along the lines of "whats your favorite parts of franchise mode?" people should not be posting in the thread saying "nothing, it sucks" or anything like that. Too often they do.

I have a lot of criticisms of Madden, but I try to limit my criticisms to appropriate threads out of consideration for others. Not everyone will have the same opinion and we should be mindful of that

[GoJags904]

Quote: Originally Posted by canes21

It actually isn't that complicated. EA already has all of the data being tracked that is necessary, the only change, simplistically, would be to no longer have the CPU QB throws be tethered to the route, but to give them the ability to throw to any blade of grass within or outside of the catch radius. Let me use some quality art to demonstrate this. Below is what Madden does right now. It tracks the player positions, sees who is open, and throws it along their route. Currently Madden sees the WR has x amount of space between him and the nearest defender(s) and categorizes him as open, then the QB throws the pass along his route, in this case he attempts to hit him in stride on the in route. This is how the CPU QB's have worked for a very long time. It makes sense. It's also dated. Below is what EA can give the CPU the ability to see if they made the requested changes. In the image above, let's assume the WR is sort of squatting as if he has turned around from a curl route. We see where he is, we see where the DB is lingering, and we see the catch radius that we know the game tracks already. What is new to the equation is what our brains already calculate and is something these systems could calculate 1,000 times over for all targets on the field every second without breaking a sweat if they wanted to. It's where the QB should throw the ball to guarantee the WR can reach the throw and to have the smallest chance of the DB getting to the ball if thrown accurately. What's new in this scenario is the CPU QB no longer throws the ball in a way that is tethered to the route. They now use the already tracked player position data and the already tracked catch radius and a simple math algorithm says throw the ball here for the most optimal result. Now the QB is throwing the ball based off of the WR catch radius, not the outdated tethered way. These types of calculations are nothing to process and can be done many times over per fraction of a second. You could literally have the 50 most optimal throws for each WR be calculated 100 times over per second and your console won't break a sweat. And if you are calculating 50 throws, that means some of them will likely be very poor decisions and when you use the QB ratings like awareness and have it roll what throw they make, this means the poorly rated QB's will make bad throws like in real life, and the guys like Aaron Rodgers are going to make the most optimal throws over and over and you'll just sit there in amazement when he throws a fade in the back of the end zone that was so perfect that no coverage could have stopped it and that is something the CPU has never had the ability to do. If EA can open it up to where the CPU QB's now pass the ball based on the catch radius and are no longer tethered to the route only, then the passing game will be revolutionized in this series. The calculations that are needed are not complex and the game already tracks all of the necessary data and already does most of the work needed right now.

Love the breakdown, and unfortunately it looks the opposite with the direction next gen is seemingly taking. I call it read and react, but your detail is exemplary for QBs. It's like the AI is stuck with the chosen play art; and lost outside of that, in regards to the other 21 players on the field.

They need this for every player on the field asap. True step, player movement 2.0, etc. Is great but does little to fix the actual football awareness of the AI. This would fix blocking, passing, running, defense, everything. They choose to separate everything into its own box; which is why we get clueless animations and outcomes, no matter how shiny it gets.

Too add....For the hum experience, it is getting better with more control and fluidity with the sticks. I give them that and will enjoy it till I'm tired of taking advantage of dumb ai.. cpu vs cpu helps alot.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[canes21]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hassan Darkside

I think your idea works for having the CPU utilize the new passing mechanics, but it doesn't really extend beyond that. You sum up the EA AI QB progressions well with this: It tracks the player positions, sees who is open, and throws it along their route. However, NFL QBs don't make decisions this way. Madden would need to allow their CPU AI to work through progressions, from primary read to check down based off of other QB ratings like Awareness or whatever. Sure, the CPU being able to throw a pass to a curl where only their WR could get it would be great, but it would also be annoying when they throw that every single time because they register that being open and that location being the best location for the football. That would just create over-accurate QBs. AI needs to also figure out how to not always make the optimal throw. I'm thinking like that Baker Mayfield video that was put together of him never throwing to a wide open OBJ. CPU AI rarely ever passes up open receivers. CPU AI wouldn't look at a one-on-one matchup on the outside with a 6'3 receiver on a 5'9 corner and think that's more favorable than hitting the tight end on a drag route. It's the former where I'd love to see the CPU AI think to prioritize getting that receiver the ball by putting it somewhere where he can only make a play on it. I'd also want to see some QBs good at making that throw, some not. Some QBs good at taking that match-up, some prefer the check downs. There's also that other tier of QBs, often young QBs, that don't understand where to put the ball in a situation like you mentioned. I feel like CPU AI should be able to differentiate between a Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers vs a Jalen Hurts trying to hit the same receiver.

QB's in Madden do go through progressions. It isn't broken down how each play is to be read in real life, but they do have progressions(4) that they go through on each play. This is something we can even change on PC.

I've also already expounded on how the game doesn't have to calculate just the most optimal throw for each target. It can be whatever number you want, it can generate 5 throws, it can calculate the top 50 most optimal throws, whatever. It can be very simple and calculate 2 throws, the most and least optimal throws, then do a dice roll based on awareness.

All I am saying is EA needs to open it up to where the CPU QB's are no longer throwing it tethered to the route, but instead are observing the catch radius and throwing it all around that and, of course, the ratings will dictate how often the right throws are made, how accurate they are, etc.

[drugsbunny]

Two things... First, I saw the same push tackle in every play. In real life, that push tackle would more than likely cause a big bodied RB to spin off and break the tackle. I wonder if you can control your RB and maybe plant a hand to continue the play. Doesn't appear that way. Thats the difference between having a few amateurs doing motion capture VS bring in a Saquan Barkley or an actually professional. Secondly, you are basically admitting to giving us a half-A$$ed product in Madden 22 throughout the video. You spent the video telling us what we couldn't do in Madden 22. I'm super unexcited about this years product. Hit everything probably includes the all new, never-seen before, run into the coach on the sideline feature. Does hit everything also include the ball hitting everything or is it going to clip into never never land when you overthrow into the endzone or throw away a pass to the sidelines? Move the pile seems to have only included a two man MoCap session. Doesn't seem like a goal line stance battle involving the whole team scrumming for position. I wonder if I can avoid blitzers as a QB in the pocket or is it by chance still. I saw a mid-air collision in the video that looked incredibly scripted. The ball looks like it still has yet to get any attention. Nothing like incorrect spin direction and sudden stops in the snow that make it look second rate. Field Sense will not help anything if they haven't touched anything major in franchise. The last talk about fans wishlist all included scouting and crap. That only matters to me if the draft players have different traits and such than the included players in the game. If you show me a draft pick that has a different face or body structure than the default option, i'll draft him and boost his stats to feel like I have a different player than one I can create. Other than that, whatever. Can I relocate or create a team or stadium? Can I rebrand a team and call it my own. Can I create a team and really choose my team name that the announcer will actually acknowledge? Even if I can't create my own team, can I relocate to Brooklyn and maybe choose another team name option? I would love to be the Brooklyn Black Knights, without having to relocate to London, then eventually re-relocating to Brooklyn. All is lost when you do that and I just become "Home or Away Team" to the announcer. Just my thoughts. Peace and Soul Baby!!

[Hammerhunker]

"Field Sense" shouldn't be heralded as this awe-inspiring innovation; it's a feature that better dad-gummed be present in a game that's about to roll out its 41st iteration in the year 2022.

[Broncos86]

Quote: Originally Posted by MoreThanAGamer

I don't understand why some people don't like constant criticism by others who don't like a product especially if said product can be proven to be identical every year, same legacy issues, or rehashing old features. But it's supposed to be okay to say, "I'm having a BLAST", "Best Madden EVER!!!!", "Going on the right direction.", "Already pre-ordered.", etc........ every year that the game releases. It's annoying as heck to you know. If it's annoying for people to constantly criticize Madden it sure as heck is annoying for people to constantly give EA the benefit of the doubt every year and act like the game is worth pre-orders and full retail every year. If people are gonna love it every year just stop commenting and coming to forums too. Go play the game. This was not directed at you in particular.

I don't know why people don't like constantly being slapped all the time, but it's supposed to be okay to give people high fives and "have a nice day!" "you look great today" "take care!" :P

Cheeky banter aside, constant criticism reaches a point where it's no longer helpful. Moreover, people will just tune you out if it's nothing but nagging. There's a difference between offering constructive feedback and just calling names and being derogatory. There also comes a point where people who are extremely negative are simply impossible to please and have unreasonable demands. This often extends from a lack of understanding for what's feasible and simply having too much emotionally invested.

I've been critical of Madden over the recent years, anybody who has been here a while knows I'm not super active (as I once was), but that I'm not just someone to be perennially excited for Madden.

It's also possible to be critical of the game while also praising elements of it. There are way too many individuals who think ANY praise derails constructive feedback, and that simply isn't true.

Praise what should be praised, correct what should be corrected. And before someone says "well they should've had X feature YEARS ago!" I'm guessing you wouldn't function well in such an environment where you did some work and the only feedback you got was "you should've had this done two weeks ago and it still sucks." The developers need to see and hear the good.