MLB 16 Trade Discussion Thread

[Gagnon39]

Quote: Originally Posted by brandonholmes

Gray and Archer are going to be expensive, Gleyber would have to be in deals for both. If you were willing to part with Baez or Soler that would probably go a long way to getting a deal done.

I don't really see a team wanting two shortstop prospects (Baez's natural position). I'm sure Beane wants some kind of retribution for the way that Epstein pulled one over on him after the Samardzija and Russell trade. Remember the Cubs traded Samardzija and Hammel for Russell and McKinney. Now the Cubs have Hammel back and a gold-glove caliber 22-year old shortstop in Russell. It's safe to say the Cubs got the better end of that deal already.

With that in mind I would imagine the A's would want some pitching prospects thrown in for Gray. I doubt they would want Torres AND Baez, especially since the A's are in a partial, if not full-blown rebuild.

I think Gleyber Torres, centerfielder Albert Almora (Cubs 1st overall pick a few years back), and a pair of pitching prospects (any two besides Dwayne Underwood) would likely do the trick.

[k_mac]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gagnon39

I don't really see a team wanting two shortstop prospects (Baez's natural position). I'm sure Beane wants some kind of retribution for the way that Epstein pulled one over on him after the Samardzija and Russell trade. Remember the Cubs traded Samardzija and Hammel for Russell and McKinney. Now the Cubs have Hammel back and a gold-glove caliber 22-year old shortstop in Russell. It's safe to say the Cubs got the better end of that deal already. With that in mind I would imagine the A's would want some pitching prospects thrown in for Gray. I doubt they would want Torres AND Baez, especially since the A's are in a partial, if not full-blown rebuild. I think Gleyber Torres, centerfielder Albert Almora (Cubs 1st overall pick a few years back), and a pair of pitching prospects (any two besides Dwayne Underwood) would likely do the trick.

Baez can play all over the field, and Torres is so far off that it's a non-factor. He's like 19. They would happily take Baez + Torres. Theo did the exact same thing, stockpile SS, they're versatile.

Baez is young enough to be a part of a "full blown rebuild" so there's not really a conversation there. Like I said in my last post.. Baez or Soler would be included in any deal for Gray, period. There's ways to get around that, but it's not realistic imo.

[Jr.]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gagnon39

I don't really see a team wanting two shortstop prospects (Baez's natural position). I'm sure Beane wants some kind of retribution for the way that Epstein pulled one over on him after the Samardzija and Russell trade. Remember the Cubs traded Samardzija and Hammel for Russell and McKinney. Now the Cubs have Hammel back and a gold-glove caliber 22-year old shortstop in Russell. It's safe to say the Cubs got the better end of that deal already. With that in mind I would imagine the A's would want some pitching prospects thrown in for Gray. I doubt they would want Torres AND Baez, especially since the A's are in a partial, if not full-blown rebuild. I think Gleyber Torres, centerfielder Albert Almora (Cubs 1st overall pick a few years back), and a pair of pitching prospects (any two besides Dwayne Underwood) would likely do the trick.

If you want something to compare to, I gave up Schwarber, Tseng, and a B POT OF prospect for Gray in my franchise. This was in 2017, so it's a little different, but that might give you a little idea. Schwarber had lost some value in mine after struggling through his first season.

[redsox4evur]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gagnon39

I don't really see a team wanting two shortstop prospects (Baez's natural position). I'm sure Beane wants some kind of retribution for the way that Epstein pulled one over on him after the Samardzija and Russell trade. Remember the Cubs traded Samardzija and Hammel for Russell and McKinney. Now the Cubs have Hammel back and a gold-glove caliber 22-year old shortstop in Russell. It's safe to say the Cubs got the better end of that deal already. With that in mind I would imagine the A's would want some pitching prospects thrown in for Gray. I doubt they would want Torres AND Baez, especially since the A's are in a partial, if not full-blown rebuild. I think Gleyber Torres, centerfielder Albert Almora (Cubs 1st overall pick a few years back), and a pair of pitching prospects (any two besides Dwayne Underwood) would likely do the trick.

You have to give up quality to get quality. You are looking at a package like Soler, Torres +. You are asking for a 26 year old Cy Young contender with 3+ years of control left. Hell if he was on a good team he might even have one. That is going to hurt a lot. But if you don't want to move Soler you are looking at Torres and Underwood. And the complete **** up by Beane is definitely a factor in these discussions, he will make sure he gets more value from the Cubs than any other team because of the Shark trade.

[Gagnon39]

Quote: Originally Posted by k_mac

Baez can play all over the field, and Torres is so far off that it's a non-factor. He's like 19. They would happily take Baez + Torres. Theo did the exact same thing, stockpile SS, they're versatile. Baez is young enough to be a part of a "full blown rebuild" so there's not really a conversation there. Like I said in my last post.. Baez or Soler would be included in any deal for Gray, period. There's ways to get around that, but it's not realistic imo.

I hear where you're coming from. And I don't completely disagree.

But Torres is on a faster track to the Majors than Russell was and that's saying something. His ETA is 2018. He's expected to be up by 2018 and he'll be 20-21 (I know Russell was 21 as well).

The thing about Baez is that (and I like to believe I don't overinflate Cubs prospects value) I think his stock has dropped big time. And most people are still uncertain about Soler. His defense is obviously questionable. The next few months are huge for both Baez and Soler. Cubs are trying (as I'm sure you're aware) to make Baez like Zobrist, which is ironic because I thought that was the initial reason the Cubs acquired Ben Zobrist. But now he's apparently sticking at second base.

When it comes down to it, if the Athletics are willing to give up Gray for Torres and Baez, I'm pretty sure I pull that trigger.

And let's not forget Vogelbach. The dude is a DH. I don't expect him to stay on the Cubs 40-man for the entire season. He could/would be included in this as well.

Torres, Vogelbach and a pitching prospect... that's a pretty good deal to me. But if the Cubs had to throw in Baez, so be it. I don't see them giving up Soler unless they fill the outfield void now. If Schwarber was playing it would be a no-brainer to trade Soler.

[Gagnon39]

Side note... this is probably my favorite thread every year. Where we get to act like "expert" GM's. I honestly love the discussion here and I use it frequently when making deals (or not making deals) in my franchise.

[Gagnon39]

Quote: Originally Posted by redsox4evur

And the complete **** up by Beane is definitely a factor in these discussions, he will make sure he gets more value from the Cubs than any other team because of the Shark trade.

Agreed, 100%. In fact I think that is the biggest obstacle to getting Sonny Gray of all.

Additional side note: Sorry for the three consecutive posts...

[k_mac]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gagnon39

I hear where you're coming from. And I don't completely disagree. But Torres is on a faster track to the Majors than Russell was and that's saying something. His ETA is 2018. He's expected to be up by 2018 and he'll be 20-21 (I know Russell was 21 as well). The thing about Baez is that (and I like to believe I don't overinflate Cubs prospects value) I think his stock has dropped big time. And most people are still uncertain about Soler. His defense is obviously questionable. The next few months are huge for both Baez and Soler. Cubs are trying (as I'm sure you're aware) to make Baez like Zobrist, which is ironic because I thought that was the initial reason the Cubs acquired Ben Zobrist. But now he's apparently sticking at second base. When it comes down to it, if the Athletics are willing to give up Gray for Torres and Baez, I'm pretty sure I pull that trigger. And let's not forget Vogelbach. The dude is a DH. I don't expect him to stay on the Cubs 40-man for the entire season. He could/would be included in this as well. Torres, Vogelbach and a pitching prospect... that's a pretty good deal to me. But if the Cubs had to throw in Baez, so be it. I don't see them giving up Soler unless they fill the outfield void now. If Schwarber was playing it would be a no-brainer to trade Soler.

Eh, don't read into those MLB.com ETAs too much. Lets not forget, he's only in A ball. All it would take is a little regression or a struggle in AA/AAA and that number goes up. I'm not saying I don't like the guy as a prospect, but you have to remember he's just that, a prospect (and a very young one at that). Either way, I think he doesn't "beat" Russell to the majors in that sense.

The Cubs knew going into the Zobrist signing that he wanted to strictly play 2B, but yes, Baez has multi-positional ability. He looked good in the OF and all over the infield in the spring, he even played 1st and didn't look bad.

You're absolutely overvaluing Vogelbach though, he's a hitter with no defensive home. That hits his value hard. He'd be a better 3rd piece than a 2nd in a deal. Torres + Vogelbach + any of the Cubs pitching prospects is nowhere near what the A's could get for Gray. Baez/Soler + Torres + Vogelbach is a very good start, at least.