Werewolf XXXVI: Resident Evil (S.T.A.R.S. Wins! Post #1424)

[spleen1015]

Ok, everyone needs to stop the whole I'm just going with Alan says thing. Its a cop-out regardless if you are good or bad. If something i say triggers a likely scenerio that makes sense, then go back and look it up yourself to see if you agree or not.

If you vote for sndvls its because its something you believe, not because Alan said so :)

To answer why i grouped the three was just because the last 2 days, the three have consistantly been in a group voting pattern avoiding all of the other lynch votes, which sometimes is a ploy that is used to make your voting look better and not draw suspicion.

Day2 Sndvls voted me, Glen and Fouts voted Sndvls
Day3 Sndvls voted Glen, Glen and Fouts voted Sndvls.

I was leaning to voting Glen and changed my mind going with Sndvls instead. I really could have gone either way, but this triangle voting pattern was more interesting to me than the current LSG vs Spleen debate.

FYI, I changed my vote from LSG to SnDvls before I read your vote. If you see the LSG post I quoted with my vote, you'll see that's where I was in thread. I hadn't gotten to your post before replying.

[Alan T]

Following the "identical votes" concept, Chief has voted for the same candidates I have all three days. Each of these (Bullet/Lathum/Cronin) has been the person who has been lynched.

I'm not sure what to make of this, compared to the Glen/Fouts, because SnDvls was a minority candidate in each case. Also, Chief has been putting his votes in near the deadline on all three nights. Two of them were done deals, with the only questionable one being around Lathum.

Drilling into the Chief vote, he did vote for Cronin (STARS) initially to create a tie before moving away from it to vote for Lathum (Umbrella) after being warned about vote reprecussions for creating a tie (by Alan). Is that enough to suspect Chief as Umbrella? I'm not sure how interesting that question is if we are hunting Zombies. If Rum was Zombie he didn't give a damn about the vote between an Umbrella/STARS.

I find it unlikely that chief is umbrella just because he could have saved Lathum and purposely didn't. He could have done what others did and vote the easy way out with a third party candidate, leaving the vote with Lathum in the lead as well and putting the ball in ntndeacon's court.

Instead Chief made the conscious decision to lynch Lathum regardless of what ntndeacon voted , lAthum would be lynched. I have a hard time believing Chief is umbrella from that vote.

It doesnt say anything about him being a zombie or not however. I find it weird that you are using his late votes as an arguement against him though. I mean its not like Chief doesn't have a well established job cycle that -always- puts him in at that time of night over the course of several games.

Could he be using it to his advantage this game as a zombie? Sure. But its weird you are using that as an arguement against him here.

[Alan T]

FYI, I changed my vote from LSG to SnDvls before I read your vote. If you see the LSG post I quoted with my vote, you'll see that's where I was in thread. I hadn't gotten to your post before replying.

My comment was more directed at chief than you in the sense he went ahead and put the vote in for sndvls before admittedtly doing the research to backup what i had said in the thread previously.

[hoopsguy]

Spleen, are you moving the vote because you believe SnDvls is Umbrella/Zombie or out of self-preservation? Either is a fine reason, but you didn't list either when you changed the vote.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I'm looking at the Chief vote because he initially voted for Cronin. If he had come in and voted for Lathum, without first voting for the other player, then I would have not given it a second thought.

[hoopsguy]

Re-read my post on the "late" votes - I said that I do not equate it to the Glen/Fouts mirror votes because the votes are coming in late. Two separate points.

1st point - that two people who are in same faction are unlikely to have mirror votes. After raising that I saw that Chief's votes this game were identical to my own. I went on to note that his votes were coming late, so he was usually putting a vote on a clear leader rather than deciding votes with the Lathum vote as an exception

2nd point - I asked about Chief initially voting for Cronin, before switching to Lathum and brought up thoughts on what that could mean in terms of his faction.

There was never a point saying "Chief is voting late, that isn't like him"

[Chief Rum]

Alan, I'm looking at the Chief vote because he initially voted for Cronin. If he had come in and voted for Lathum, without first voting for the other player, then I would have not given it a second thought.

I was hardly the only one looking at st. cronin. He got a lot of votes on Days 1 and 2, and then got lynched on Day 3. If you're looking at me for voting for cronin when it turns out he was STARS, you have a lot of other suspects to look at--including yourself.

I voted on my gut there. st cronin struck me as off on Day 2, and I saw there was merit in Alan's plan that day, based on the presence of a PC. That theory has since been somewhat disproven, but there was some validity to it on Day Two and into Day Three as well.

[BrianD]

UNVOTE LoneStarGirl
VOTE SnDvls

Shocker.

[Chief Rum]

Re-read my post on the "late" votes - I said that I do not equate it to the Glen/Fouts mirror votes because the votes are coming in late. Two separate points.

1st point - that two people who are in same faction are unlikely to have mirror votes. After raising that I saw that Chief's votes this game were identical to my own. I went on to note that his votes were coming late, so he was usually putting a vote on a clear leader rather than deciding votes with the Lathum vote as an exception

2nd point - I asked about Chief initially voting for Cronin, before switching to Lathum and brought up thoughts on what that could mean in terms of his faction.

There was never a point saying "Chief is voting late, that isn't like him"

1st point-- two people in the same faction who can PM each other and have reason to hide their association with each other would avoid mirror votes. Since you and I are very likely both STARS with no PM abilities and just going on our guts and analysis, I would say there is little significance to the mirror votes other than that we obviously somewhat think alike (at least in this game).

2nd point-- I have addressed the cronin vote before and just did again above. Given what I knew then at the deadline of Day Two, I still would have prefered cronin over Lathum. If Lathum telegraphed his Umbrella-ness, I missed it. I only switched to Lathum for the reason mentioned: a tie would hurt us badly.

[BrianD]

Unvote LoneStarGirl
Vote Spleen

I said they were both at the same point on my suspicion list, and I thought their fight was staged. Spleen was the first of the two to do what I expected, so I'm giving him my vote.

[Alan T]

(3) Sndvls - Alan (1484), sndvls (1491), spleen (1497)
(3) Spleen - Lonestargirl (1448), Hoopsguy (1469), BrianD (1510)
(1) Lonestargirl - mr.wednesday (1488)

[hoopsguy]

Chief, people should be asking questions about my votes as well as they sort through their vote today. I feel like I have bigger concerns than your vote on Day 2 today but I had not seen anyone offer any thoughts about your play (or lack of it, depending on viewpoint) this game.

[Glengoyne]

Going out to the park for a bit. Will be back to talk more in a few hours.

Right now I am not sure that you all are going the right approach when looking at UtR folks. I don't really have an issue with looking at spleen or LSG since I dont trust either of them, but right now it looks like everyone was perfectly happy with it being a contest today between Spleen v Lonestargirl and completely ignore the other UtR.

When looking for someone utr, I wouldn't only look at post counts or the run by attacks.. but also other behavioral patterns. If i had to choose which UtR person to go for today, I likely would look at the Fouts, Glengoyne, Sndvls connection moreso than these guys.

The past three days while we've been busy killing off our own team, these three have been content voting for each other and staying out of our way. It makes their voting patterns look better, keeps them out of people's bullseyes.

I would probably right now think about Glengoyne as he has been content to stay out of the lynch votes the last two days and has stayed on the same person the entire time without really pushing anyone else to consider sndvls.

A nice quick run by and throw away vote on the way out the door to obscurity.

I have explained my votes for snDvls a couple of times. On day two, the only one of the very visible posters I was comfortable to vote for was Alan. I didn't really have that option. I didn't follow the Lathum logic, so I wanted to stay away from that vote. snDvls pops off with something I found suspicious. Much more suspicion that either of the others receiving votes. On day three, I entered the day leaning toward trusting Hoops and Cronin, they got pitted against each other and left me, essentially clueless. I misinterpreted a revisit of the snDvls activity on Day 2, and did exactly what snDvls did the day before. I voted along with a misstatement. Since I still wasn't completely satisfied with snDvls explanation, I went with him again.

I'm ok with the UtR approach, as I do believe that Alan is probably Umbrella so shouldn't be targetted for a while. Hoops could be Umbrella as well, the two of them driving discussion with the goal of eliminating as many stars as possible. Both of those are fairly bold plays, especially for a zombie. So while I dont think they are stars, I think the chance either or both of them being zombies is remote.

So I'm unhappy with either of the two people I feel like I have a reasonable handle on. snDvls was suspicious on Day 2. But that hasn't been fleshed out much.

I've got to take off for a bit, but will be back in an hour or so. I'm going to

vote snDvls

and see what happens.

I'm not emphatic about this vote and can be swayed. We need something to go on.

If nothing develops I'm seriously tempted to vote Alan or Hoops, if we can't actually get a head of steam worked up on a UtR. That is somewhat motivated so that I know NOW, rather than later, how they played everyone. I'm starting to fear that a few strong personalities drove false conversation to prevent a real effective CoT from forming. This angle also goes back to sort of an Occam's razor thought. maybe that isn't right. Maybe it goes to a bird in the hand is better than one in the bush? Alan has a good chance of being evil, and slight chance of being a zombie. I'd rather hit him rather than someone who is almost randomly selected.

[Chief Rum]

Chief, people should be asking questions about my votes as well as they sort through their vote today. I feel like I have bigger concerns than your vote on Day 2 today but I had not seen anyone offer any thoughts about your play (or lack of it, depending on viewpoint) this game.

I understand that. As I have suggested, I have been a little surprised to not have come up more often in any UTR discussions. I was often fearing I would have to defend myself the past few days, but not much ever was coming at me. I guess it is better now to be here and able to respond to anything than to start a new work week tomorrow and go into daytime disappear mode again, when I might become a lynch target and unable to respond until near deadline.

[Lorena]

(3) Sndvls - Alan (1484), sndvls (1491), spleen (1497)
(3) Spleen - Lonestargirl (1448), Hoopsguy (1469), BrianD (1510)
(1) Lonestargirl - mr.wednesday (1488)

Im still pretty behind (kinda hectic here on Sundays), but Alan, post 1491 it's chief voting for Sndlvs.

[hoopsguy]

Here is what I have for current votes:


(4) Spleen - LSG (1448), Hoops (1469), MrW (1488), BrianD (1510)
(4) SnDvls - AlanT (1484), Rum (1491), Spleen (1497), Glen (1513)

[Alan T]

I think I chose poorly in my choice on who to vote for between Sndvls and Glengoyne.

I don't really like Glen's explanations about his vote for Sndvls or really about much of anything.

If I change my vote to him at this point though, it ties things back up and its a throw away vote unless others switch to him. So I'll just stay here, but right now I think Glen feels more suspicious to me than Sndvls now.

[Alan T]

Here is what I have for current votes:


(4) Spleen - LSG (1448), Hoops (1469), MrW (1488), BrianD (1510)
(4) SnDvls - AlanT (1484), Rum (1491), Spleen (1497), Glen (1513)


Mr.W voted for Lonestargirl, not spleen.

(4) Sndvls - Alan (1484), chiefrum (1491), spleen (1497), Glengoyne (1513)
(3) Spleen - Lonestargirl (1448), Hoopsguy (1469), BrianD (1510)
(1) Lonestargirl - mr.wednesday (1488)

[hoopsguy]

Glen, I think the only way that it doesn't come out today that Alan is Umbrella/STARS is if the Internal Affairs guy was converted last night.

There is a real chance of that having happened - something along the lines of 1/9 or 1/10 (they could have converted an Umbrella)? But if it has, then we are screwed. So I read this that no one coming out against Alan puts me in a position where I have to trust Alan today.

If you think Alan and I are Umbrella, and we are the players you have a handle on, then I think it make sense to go the opposite of where you go, frankly.

[Alan T]

Bleh, still 4 hours. Might as well.

At least I know you aren't IA so no risk killing the seer accidentally from being UtR

Unvote Sndvls
Vote Glengoyne

[LoneStarGirl]

For the past two days i have been saying that SNDVLS had to be bad, but Spleen obviously is too, so i am going to stick with spleen unless it looks like a tie is going to happen.

[hoopsguy]

And a hush has fallen over the crowd.

[Glengoyne]

Glen, I think the only way that it doesn't come out today that Alan is Umbrella/STARS is if the Internal Affairs guy was converted last night.

There is a real chance of that having happened - something along the lines of 1/9 or 1/10 (they could have converted an Umbrella)? But if it has, then we are screwed. So I read this that no one coming out against Alan puts me in a position where I have to trust Alan today.

If you think Alan and I are Umbrella, and we are the players you have a handle on, then I think it make sense to go the opposite of where you go, frankly.

I was wondering where you were going when you were saying that Alan was as close as you could imagine coming back clean. I guess that I wasn't even all that concerned with that opinion, since I don't have all of the warm fuzzies coming back on you. On day two, I was pretty firmly reading you as stars, even getting the seer vibe. I was preparing to follow your votes, until you flipped on Cronin. That had me questioning everything I had previously assessed.

If no one else is poking holes in your theory, I'll back off pushing for Alan's head before yours. I wouldn't expect me to drop it entirely, as I think I've mentioned before that one of my weaknesses is that I hold tightly to my own theories, even in the face of apparent evidence to the contrary.

[path12]

For the past two days i have been saying that SNDVLS had to be bad, but Spleen obviously is too, so i am going to stick with spleen unless it looks like a tie is going to happen.

LSG, first of all, I don't think you're bad. But I really wish you would give some reasoning behind your thoughts. When you say something like the above about SnDvls, it just comes off as a hit and run attack with nothing behind it.

Personally, it really tends to make me discount your posts, and I think you're better at this than that.

[hoopsguy]

Glen, I wish that someone had come out and said Alan was Umbrella or Zombie. I had advocated having Internal Affairs come out today regardless of what faction Alan was associated with, but everyone has checked in and no one has staked a claim. I would think they would almost have to do it with Alan being anything but STARS.

I sincerely wish that I was a seer role - I can guarantee that this game would have gone much differently, for better or worse if I had either of those roles. Hopefully whoever does will explain in the post-game what their thought process was because I've been just baffled by their play up to this point.

The vote this afternoon feels overly random and subject to manipulation, but I don't know how to avoid that at this point. Hopefully Umbrella is equally committed to helping us get a Zombie today.

[path12]

Now, I don't get the SnDvls vibe that many are talking about. He's quiet, yes, and that's not helping a ton, but other than the odd post on day 2 I haven't seen anything to make me suspect him.

Spleen I suspect because of the difference in style/post counts, and I agree with what BrianD said about the attack on LSG seeming a bit forced. One way or another, I do not believe for a moment that he is stars. The problem I have is that I'm not sure he's a zombie either -- I just get Umbrella off of him.

[path12]

Glen, I wish that someone had come out and said Alan was Umbrella or Zombie. I had advocated having Internal Affairs come out today regardless of what faction Alan was associated with, but everyone has checked in and no one has staked a claim. I would think they would almost have to do it with Alan being anything but STARS.

I'm assuming at this point that Alan is stars because there has been nothing come out to the contrary. It's really making me rethink a lot of things, because I would have sworn he was Umbrella.......which also tells me that my analysis is not very good this game. :(

[path12]

I better get a vote in. This could change. I've given my reasons a couple times.

Vote Spleen

[Fouts]

Since day 2 I have been thinking that SnDvls is Umbrella. If you look back, he was trying to divert attention away from Lathum. That is why I have been voting for him.

I have no idea on the way spleen has played. He has been very UtR up until now. The question is, do I vote for a probable Umbrella, or a shot in the dark at spleen?

[Chubby]

3 hours to go

(3) SnDvls - Chief Rum (1491), spleen (1497), glengoyne (1513)
(1) lonestargirl - Mr Wednesday (1488)
(4) spleen - lonestargirl (1448), hoopsguy (1469), BrianD (1511), path12 (1528)
(1) glengoyne - Alan T (1520)

[hoopsguy]

Fouts, can you reference posts where SnDvls was trying to divert attention from Lathum? When he cast his vote for Alan on Day 2 there was not a single vote on Lathum.

[Fouts]

Fouts, can you reference posts where SnDvls was trying to divert attention from Lathum? When he cast his vote for Alan on Day 2 there was not a single vote on Lathum.

Please answer the question.

[Fouts]

The game is slowing down, so I'm about to liven it up some.

[hoopsguy]

Fouts, can you reference posts where SnDvls was trying to divert attention from Lathum? When he cast his vote for Alan on Day 2 there was not a single vote on Lathum.

Please answer the question.

I don't get the response here. Are you suggesting he was diverting attention from the guy with zero votes by voting for one of the people in a 4-4 tie?

Looking forward to something that livens up the game.

[Fouts]

I am Internal Affairs. My initial thoughts were to stay alive for 4-5 days and build up a list of cleared subjects, or hit a zombie. I wanted to scan some UtR people for the endgame, figuring those in the spotlight would be killed or stay alive and be proven a bad guy.

I think we are at a point where a cleared list will help us win the game. Alas, I have not hit a zombie, but my list might help us narrow it down. I don't expect to live past the next night or two. There are 12 players left, I am about to give you 5 non-zombies.

[spleen1015]

Spleen, are you moving the vote because you believe SnDvls is Umbrella/Zombie or out of self-preservation? Either is a fine reason, but you didn't list either when you changed the vote.

While, I would like to stay in the game, I'm just an everyday, run of the mill STARS member. Me being out of the game does nothing but help the Zombies. So, self preservation is not what I was thinking. I wanted to get LSG to talk a bit. I never intending on her being my final vote.

So, I switched it to someone that has reasons to be voted for.

One of the reasons I'm not all that active with posting this game is because I haven't picked up on as much as everyone. So, I figure it is safe just to be quiet. Also, if I play more in the future, I don't want there to be a pattern of the way I play.

There is someone in this game that knows I am telling the truth about my allegiance. So, if you vote for me, then you are not STARS in my mind.

[Fouts]

Make that 4 people, my bad.

non-Zombies;

LSG
SnDvls
Hoopsguy
and of course, Fouts.

Some of those may, in fact, be Umbrella.

[hoopsguy]

Fouts, why would you not have scanned Alan by now? I assume you picked me instead of him?

[Fouts]

Fouts, why would you not have scanned Alan by now? I assume you picked me instead of him?

Alan seemed pretty obvious Umbrella to me. He is continually putting up Stars members. I put him on the Umbrella seer role.

I thought knowing your affinity would prove a lot to me, as you kept asking for a role reveal. I would rather have scanned path or glen, but you were in the forefront.

[hoopsguy]

Can you go through your thought process for who to scan each night?

[Fouts]

Can you go through your thought process for who to scan each night?

For what purpose?

[Fouts]

2.5 hours to use my information.

[spleen1015]

We know that SnDvls is not a zombie per Fouts, assuming Fouts isn't lying. So, I'm not going to vote for SnDvls. He not someone I need dead to win the game.

Glengoyne has voted for SnDvls 2 days in a row.

path's votes have also been following the crowd. I think he needs to be watched as well.

UNVOTE SnDvls
VOTE Glengoyne

[hoopsguy]

So people can adequately assess your claim. I would not be shocked if someone emerged to dispute you in this role.

Also, did you list them in the order you scanned them? That is important for considering a conversion.

[spleen1015]

If you are STARS, do not vote for me. I am on your side, I promise you.

[Chief Rum]

Hmm, I was already pretty sure Hoops and Fouts were non-zombies. If this reveal is true, I am disappointed to see SnDvls and LSG cleared--they semeed very suspicious to me, and that throws things into heck a bit for me.

What is the going thoughts on spleen? I know the back and forth between him and LSG seemed odd earlier today, and, regardless of what he says, he is playing this game much different than before.

I am leaning to believing Fouts, and if so, then I think I should not vote for SnDvls, but then who do I vote for?

Fouts, if you were going to check out UTR players, why hoops? At this point, I kinda wish you had investigated Alan. His actions have driven a lot of actions in this game.

[path12]

path's votes have also been following the crowd. I think he needs to be watched as well.

Go ahead and watch me. But don't lie about me. I was the first vote on the only bad guy we've gotten so far. You really hate it when I vote for you. :)

[Chief Rum]

Fouts, if you were going to check out UTR players, why hoops? At this point, I kinda wish you had investigated Alan. His actions have driven a lot of actions in this game.

Looks like asked and answered.

[Fouts]

Night 1 - LSG. I wanted to scan a known UtR for endgame purposes. She made a couple flippant comments about people, and her comment about not voting for bullet because she didn't want to sealed the deal.

Night 2 - SnDvls. I was very suspicous of his hit and run, and other things small things he has said. Also, he was playing a lot quieter than past games.

Night 3 - Hoops. Had to choose either Alan or Hoops here to make sure things progress. Hoops seemed more zombie-like as Alan was playing an Umbrella and too up in our face to be a zombie.

I wanted to wait one more night, but I didn't like the direction of tonights vote and thought I might be a target of the zombies soon anyway.

[spleen1015]

Go ahead and watch me. But don't lie about me. I was the first vote on the only bad guy we've gotten so far. You really hate it when I vote for you. :)

You got me there. You voted as part of the crowd. Poor choice of words on my part.

Honestly, I'm not paying attention to who is voting for me. I just put you out there after looking at voting history.

[hoopsguy]

Fouts, where are you thinking about going with your vote? Spleen has four votes right now, compared to two for Glen. Any strong reason to look at one versus the other in your opinion?

[Alan T]

For some reason I have a hard time believing Fouts's reveal. I don't understand why he wouldn't have scanned me. I don't understand why he would have scanned Sndvls and still voted for him the next day, or why he would have voted for him 1 day, not scan him, vote again and then scan him.

I guess its possible that this is a true reveal, but I'm not sure that I am believing it right now and part of me thinks its an attempt to ferret out the real IA. Either way it doesn't affect my vote tonight, so guess I'll just see what happens.

[Fouts]

Fouts, where are you thinking about going with your vote? Spleen has four votes right now, compared to two for Glen. Any strong reason to look at one versus the other in your opinion?

No clue. spleen has claimed to be STARS, and I don't remember Glen claiming anything.

I was also watching path due to his first vote on Lathum. If you put the first vote on an Umbrella, and the zombies don't kill you, what does that say about your affiliation?

[Chief Rum]

Night 1 - LSG. I wanted to scan a known UtR for endgame purposes. She made a couple flippant comments about people, and her comment about not voting for bullet because she didn't want to sealed the deal.

Night 2 - SnDvls. I was very suspicous of his hit and run, and other things small things he has said. Also, he was playing a lot quieter than past games.

Night 3 - Hoops. Had to choose either Alan or Hoops here to make sure things progress. Hoops seemed more zombie-like as Alan was playing an Umbrella and too up in our face to be a zombie.

I wanted to wait one more night, but I didn't like the direction of tonights vote and thought I might be a target of the zombies soon anyway.

Knowing this, why did you still vote for SnDvls (first vote in fact) on Day Three? And you never moved it either. I thought it was pretty clear by the morning of Day Three that zombies were the real danger, not Umbrella.

[Fouts]

For some reason I have a hard time believing Fouts's reveal. I don't understand why he wouldn't have scanned me. I don't understand why he would have scanned Sndvls and still voted for him the next day, or why he would have voted for him 1 day, not scan him, vote again and then scan him.

I guess its possible that this is a true reveal, but I'm not sure that I am believing it right now and part of me thinks its an attempt to ferret out the real IA. Either way it doesn't affect my vote tonight, so guess I'll just see what happens.

Expected response. You haven't helped us from day 1 and nobody should be listening to you (this game).

[Alan T]

Yeah, checking back. Fouts scanned Sndvls on night 2, yet voted for him on day 3 when there was no apparent need to as there were many other candidates to hide in.

I just get the feeling this is an attempt to ferret out the IA

[hoopsguy]

Your vote for SnDvls on Day 3 pretty clearly indicates that you have him as Umbrella. If you had that info yesterday there must have been some difficulty with risk/reward on the Cronin vote yesterday.

On the same point, did you think that Alan was hijacking your role with the way he was playing yesterday being certain on Cronin? Because until Cronin showed up villager I had convinced myself that Alan was IA. If I actually was the IA I would be very suspicious of someone who was carrying themselves as if they had my role.

[Alan T]

Expected response. You haven't helped us from day 1 and nobody should be listening to you (this game).

Thats fine, but you didn't answer my question about sndvls

[Fouts]

Knowing this, why did you still vote for SnDvls (first vote in fact) on Day Three? And you never moved it either. I thought it was pretty clear by the morning of Day Three that zombies were the real danger, not Umbrella.

Who should I move it to? Do I move it to some random guy, die that night and you guys go "look he must be a bad guy cuz IA voted for him".

[Chief Rum]

For some reason I have a hard time believing Fouts's reveal. I don't understand why he wouldn't have scanned me. I don't understand why he would have scanned Sndvls and still voted for him the next day, or why he would have voted for him 1 day, not scan him, vote again and then scan him.

I guess its possible that this is a true reveal, but I'm not sure that I am believing it right now and part of me thinks its an attempt to ferret out the real IA. Either way it doesn't affect my vote tonight, so guess I'll just see what happens.

Yup, I have a lot of the same concerns right now.

[Alan T]

Who should I move it to? Do I move it to some random guy, die that night and you guys go "look he must be a bad guy cuz IA voted for him".

So you instead keep it on a guy who you know is cleared and just by some case something happens to you that night everyone the next day goes after Sndvls if you are what you say you are? Now its my turn to say BS.

[Fouts]

Thats fine, but you didn't answer my question about sndvls

I didn't see a question.

[Chief Rum]

Who should I move it to? Do I move it to some random guy, die that night and you guys go "look he must be a bad guy cuz IA voted for him".

If you know we need to get a zombie, and you choose to actively vote for someone who is not, I have to question that. It doesn't make any sense, which is why this smells to me of a fake-reveal--especially here close to the deadline.

You could very well be a fellow Umbrella with SnDvls or spleen and trying to protect one of the other (probably SnDvls, I guess).

[Fouts]

So you instead keep it on a guy who you know is cleared and just by some case something happens to you that night everyone the next day goes after Sndvls if you are what you say you are? Now its my turn to say BS.

C'mon Alan, you are smarter than that. I vote for a guy, scan him, then vote for him again. Why would I vote for him again over 2 unknowns? Its obvious.

[hoopsguy]

I think the most likely fake reveal for Fouts here is as the Umbrella seer. In which case his interests are aligned with us today. Maybe he is trying to save an Umbrella, but we want a Zombie anyways.

[Fouts]

If you know we need to get a zombie, and you choose to actively vote for someone who is not, I have to question that. It doesn't make any sense, which is why this smells to me of a fake-reveal--especially here close to the deadline.

You could very well be a fellow Umbrella with SnDvls or spleen and trying to protect one of the other (probably SnDvls, I guess).

Chief, you are clouding the reason why I revealed. I revealed to get the ball rolling on the zombies. I had a good reason to vote for SnDvls, but my reveal now is to get zombies.

[Chief Rum]

C'mon Alan, you are smarter than that. I vote for a guy, scan him, then vote for him again. Why would I vote for him again over 2 unknowns? Its obvious.

But you're saying he is not a zombie, and you can't tell if he is STARS or Umbrella. So he could be your own teammate. And you stick with your vote on him?

[Fouts]

I'm glad I didn't wait until the last hour to reveal. You guys would spend it dissecting me rather than finding a good candidate.

[Fouts]

But you're saying he is not a zombie, and you can't tell if he is STARS or Umbrella. So he could be your own teammate. And you stick with your vote on him?

Reread the rules.

[spleen1015]

C'mon Alan, you are smarter than that. I vote for a guy, scan him, then vote for him again. Why would I vote for him again over 2 unknowns? Its obvious.

The description of your role says you can find out their faction each night. So, what faction are LSG, SnDvls and hoops if they are not zombie?

[Alan T]

C'mon Alan, you are smarter than that. I vote for a guy, scan him, then vote for him again. Why would I vote for him again over 2 unknowns? Its obvious.

Well if you really are telling the truth, then obviously Im not very smart if I pinned you as Umbrella and you really are IA.

I still don't see why you wouldn't have scanned me, and this still smells like a fishing attempt to try to smoke out the IA. but either way I moved my vote to Glen anyways which if you are telling the truth has a much better than 50% chance of being bad right now. probably about an 75% chance considering you say all of those people are good, I know I am good. So that should be almost all of the remaining STARS (if I am to believe you).

I just don't is all.

[hoopsguy]

That said, if there is someone who really is the Internal Affairs they could come out with their list and we could have more people cleared of being Zombies today. This strategy makes a lot of sense if people believe that Fouts is the Umbrella seer or teammates with the Umbrella seer.

If he is trying to save SnDvls from a lynch today, and SnDvls is not a Zombie, then more power to him in my opinion. Just a matter of how you interpret the information Fouts is providing and whether you think there is value there.

[Chief Rum]

Chief, you are clouding the reason why I revealed. I revealed to get the ball rolling on the zombies. I had a good reason to vote for SnDvls, but my reveal now is to get zombies.

So you just didn't agree with the reasoning we needed to get a zombie on Day Three? You saw Umbrella or zombie as of equal value? And didn't put any weight into any of the discussion that day focusing on avoiding possible Umbrella members and going after zombies?

[Alan T]

I'm glad I didn't wait until the last hour to reveal. You guys would spend it dissecting me rather than finding a good candidate.

I don't see why my candidate isnt a good candidate considering what i just said in my last post

[Fouts]

Well if you really are telling the truth, then obviously Im not very smart if I pinned you as Umbrella and you really are IA.

I still don't see why you wouldn't have scanned me, and this still smells like a fishing attempt to try to smoke out the IA. but either way I moved my vote to Glen anyways which if you are telling the truth has a much better than 50% chance of being bad right now. probably about an 75% chance considering you say all of those people are good, I know I am good. So that should be almost all of the remaining STARS (if I am to believe you).

I just don't is all.

No reason for anyone to fish out the IA. The zombies are slaughtering us, it is time to make a stand.

I might vote for Glen. I'm still wondering about his move to encourage me to vote for SnDvls on day 2. Who would do that?

My other suspect is path, with reasons as stated before.

[Alan T]

The description of your role says you can find out their faction each night. So, what faction are LSG, SnDvls and hoops if they are not zombie?

I feel this is a fair question to ask if they aren't zombie then which of these are umbrella and which aren't according to you.

[Chief Rum]

Reread the rules.

Sorry I didn't have the IA role on instant feedback in my brain. :rolleyes:

[Fouts]

So you just didn't agree with the reasoning we needed to get a zombie on Day Three? You saw Umbrella or zombie as of equal value? And didn't put any weight into any of the discussion that day focusing on avoiding possible Umbrella members and going after zombies?

No, I saw my vote as Umbrella is better than 2 unknowns. Also, I had to consider my legacy.

[Alan T]

That said, if there is someone who really is the Internal Affairs they could come out with their list and we could have more people cleared of being Zombies today. This strategy makes a lot of sense if people believe that Fouts is the Umbrella seer or teammates with the Umbrella seer.

If he is trying to save SnDvls from a lynch today, and SnDvls is not a Zombie, then more power to him in my opinion. Just a matter of how you interpret the information Fouts is providing and whether you think there is value there.

If this is true, then we now see who would be more valuable to umbrella than Spencer.. of course it would be the umbrella seer.

[BrianD]

I feel this is a fair question to ask if they aren't zombie then which of these are umbrella and which aren't according to you.

Do you really want Fouts to answer that?

[spleen1015]

I feel this is a fair question to ask if they aren't zombie then which of these are umbrella and which aren't according to you.

Are you asking me or Fouts?

[Fouts]

Sorry I didn't have the IA role on instant feedback in my brain. :rolleyes:

Apology accepted. ;)

[spleen1015]

Do you really want Fouts to answer that?

I do.

[Alan T]

If this is true, then we now see who would be more valuable to umbrella than Spencer.. of course it would be the umbrella seer.

Of course another possibility is he isnt the umbrella seer, but is just getting fed this information from the person who is (maybe Sndvls) since they can communicate freely.

[LoneStarGirl]

well thank you fouts for clearing me, I am sure you will be dead tonight though.

I am going to have to work on not being so under the radar now

[Chief Rum]

UNVOTE SNDVLS

Okay, I'll do this for now. I want to see more discussion of who we should go after.

[Alan T]

Are you asking me or Fouts?

I quoted your question to fouts since I think its a fair question to ask him

[Alan T]

Do you really want Fouts to answer that?

Yes, why wouldn't I? What harm does it do to the stars to know which is umbrella and which are stars according to fouts? I cant see any downside for the Stars, and only downside for umbrella to have that info out. Since Fouts is already hinting that sndvls is umbrella I don't see the harm in knowing the others

[spleen1015]

I quoted your question to fouts since I think its a fair question to ask him

That's what I thought.

[Lorena]

3 hours to go

(3) SnDvls - Chief Rum (1491), spleen (1497), glengoyne (1513)
(1) lonestargirl - Mr Wednesday (1488)
(4) spleen - lonestargirl (1448), hoopsguy (1469), BrianD (1511), path12 (1528)
(1) glengoyne - Alan T (1520)

I've been very distracted with RL today and am very, very behind (about 10 pages). I find it unlikely that I'll catch up at all today, as I have some things to attend to tonight.

I'm still unsure of why Alan hasn't been lynched or hell, why he doesn't have a vote on him today, given the actions I've read so far. But, of course I'm behind so chances are I missed something. Also, the fact that fouts (given his reveal is true) didn't scan him, so as far as I'm concerned, I think Alan is evil.

Vote AlanT.

I'll try to be here before lynch time and at least read the last few pages to see what has transpired. I almost feel like I'm throwing my vote away, but given what I have read, this is the person that seems most suspicious to me. If I am wrong, someone point me in the right direction.

I'm on post 1061.

[Chief Rum]

well thank you fouts for clearing me, I am sure you will be dead tonight though.

I am going to have to work on not being so under the radar now

Well, I would hope the bodyguard will guard Fouts tonight, and we can at least get another scan from him.

[Fouts]

Yes, why wouldn't I? What harm does it do to the stars to know which is umbrella and which are stars according to fouts? I cant see any downside for the Stars, and only downside for umbrella to have that info out. Since Fouts is already hinting that sndvls is umbrella I don't see the harm in knowing the others

Because zombies are after the PC. I'm not going to tell you which of the 3 are STARS, if any.

[hoopsguy]

Of course another possibility is he isnt the umbrella seer, but is just getting fed this information from the person who is (maybe Sndvls) since they can communicate freely.

Yep, agree with this. Not sure it makes a difference for purposes of evaluating the info tonight if he is either IA or one of the Umbrella players.

They need to start clearing Zombies as well. I don't expect that Umbrella would feed us a Zombie in the middle of their list.

If you think Fouts is making this play as a Zombie (I consider that a pretty remote possibility, as they have a choke-hold on the game right now) then lynch Fouts. But I bet that SnDvls is Umbrella, they were worried about losing one of their own and not getting a Zombie in the process so thus the reveal.

[BrianD]

DC, you may want to just pay attention to the most recent conversation before making a final vote. I think everything everybody thought they knew is about the change in the next few hours.

[spleen1015]

Because zombies are after the PC. I'm not going to tell you which of the 3 are STARS, if any.

Okay. Fine. Then tell us which of the 3 are Umbrella.

[Chief Rum]

I've been very distracted with RL today and am very, very behind (about 10 pages). I find it unlikely that I'll catch up at all today, as I have some things to attend to tonight.

I'm still unsure of why Alan hasn't been lynched or hell, why he doesn't have a vote on him today, given the actions I've read so far. But, of course I'm behind so chances are I missed something. Also, the fact that fouts (given his reveal is true) didn't scan him, so as far as I'm concerned, I think Alan is evil.

Vote AlanT.

I'll try to be here before lynch time and at least read the last few pages to see what has transpired. I almost feel like I'm throwing my vote away, but given what I have read, this is the person that seems most suspicious to me. If I am wrong, someone point me in the right direction.

I'm on post 1061.

DC, lots happening. I would advise you drop the page-by-page, get someone to give you a blow-by-blow, and get up here with us. We just had a major turn in the game tonight, and you should read about it before deadline.

[Fouts]

If I am a fake seer, then I just bought the real IA a night or two. Give me that much.

NOW HELP FIND A ZOMBIE!

[spleen1015]

Can I go play MUA or are you guys going to blast 5 pages up in the next 1-2 hours?

[Chief Rum]

Okay. Fine. Then tell us which of the 3 are Umbrella.

lol

[BrianD]

Yes, why wouldn't I? What harm does it do to the stars to know which is umbrella and which are stars according to fouts? I cant see any downside for the Stars, and only downside for umbrella to have that info out. Since Fouts is already hinting that sndvls is umbrella I don't see the harm in knowing the others

Because right now the Umbrella members are probably pretty nervous. They won't know how to defend each other or just what to say. Don't we want to give them a chance to screw up a bit before all of the info comes out?

[Alan T]

Yep, agree with this. Not sure it makes a difference for purposes of evaluating the info tonight if he is either IA or one of the Umbrella players.

They need to start clearing Zombies as well. I don't expect that Umbrella would feed us a Zombie in the middle of their list.

If you think Fouts is making this play as a Zombie (I consider that a pretty remote possibility, as they have a choke-hold on the game right now) then lynch Fouts. But I bet that SnDvls is Umbrella, they were worried about losing one of their own and not getting a Zombie in the process so thus the reveal.

Yeah, I have sat here trying to think this through. The only thing i could think of is Sndvls would be #2 of 4 maybe they had and would be losing him would mean a very tough win for them. I think this is the most likely scenerio, I had Fouts pegged as Umbrella for a while, so I think most likely Fouts isn't a zombie.

The thinking in my mind is that then since we need to kill zombies more than umbrella, he just sits out there to be dealt with later.

Small nagging part of me wonders if this is not a bold zombie move to buy some trust for hoops.. but at this point I have to realize that is low percentage probability so will back off hoops at least for now.

[hoopsguy]

Can I go play MUA or are you guys going to blast 5 pages up in the next 1-2 hours?

I'm seeing a few posts between now and deadline :)

And seeing as how you lead in votes at the moment, I would expect you to be interested in the results ...

[Chief Rum]

If I am a fake seer, then I just bought the real IA a night or two. Give me that much.

NOW HELP FIND A ZOMBIE!

Help us with a vote. You know some who are clear. You have also your own analysis/theories, I am sure. Who do you think is a zombie? You mentioned Glen, and he has votes. You are unsure of spleen. Who else?

If you had to choose, who would you go after, regardless of current votes?

[st.cronin]

Can I go play MUA or are you guys going to blast 5 pages up in the next 1-2 hours?

here's a post you don't need to read

[hoopsguy]

at this point I have to realize that is low percentage probability so will back off hoops at least for now

OMFG - I am stunned at this turn of events!!! :)

[Alan T]

Because right now the Umbrella members are probably pretty nervous. They won't know how to defend each other or just what to say. Don't we want to give them a chance to screw up a bit before all of the info comes out?

Eh to be fair, Fouts does have a point that Zombies would be looking for the PC. I just don't think he exists in this game is all at this point. So I did not think of that possibility. If fouts is umbrella, then we can believe those people are not zombies, just cant trust they are all stars.

[SnDvls]

sorry all just catching up now on pg 31

I will admit I'm umbrella

more to come

[Alan T]

OMFG - I am stunned at this turn of events!!! :)

Shush. I still think there is a possibility that you are umbrella (or maybe some very small chance of being zombie, but that seems unlikely now). :)

[Lorena]

Well shoot, this puts me in a bit of a predicament then, given what little I know.

[Alan T]

sorry all just catching up now on pg 31

I will admit I'm umbrella

more to come

Ok, this was too easy of a reveal for him to come out with. its pretty obvious now that he and Fouts were working together on this.

[Fouts]

Ok, this was too easy of a reveal for him to come out with. its pretty obvious now that he and Fouts were working together on this.

Nope. I am intrigued though.

[hoopsguy]

So, what do people think about the idea of the true IA coming out at this point? Assuming he can clear at least one other person of being a zombie we should be in a terrific spot to get a Zombie tonight.

That would leave the bodyguard with an interesting decision on who to guard tonight, but I think it is worth it for the pressure it generates for the Zombies both today and going forward.

[BrianD]

Eh to be fair, Fouts does have a point that Zombies would be looking for the PC. I just don't think he exists in this game is all at this point. So I did not think of that possibility. If fouts is umbrella, then we can believe those people are not zombies, just cant trust they are all stars.

Absolutely right. I'd bet that they aren't all STARS. I'm sure Fouts will get the info out before he dies. Whichever team he is on, I think this will help us find the zombies...or at least narrow the choices a bit.

[Alan T]

Nope. I am intrigued though.

You don't think its odd that he just comes out easily and says "yep" ?

The only thing I can think of coming is Sndvls saying he is the umbrella seer so Fouts can't be thus giving fouts some credibility.. but thats kind of a bad B-movie plot.

[Alan T]

So, what do people think about the idea of the true IA coming out at this point? Assuming he can clear at least one other person of being a zombie we should be in a terrific spot to get a Zombie tonight.

That would leave the bodyguard with an interesting decision on who to guard tonight, but I think it is worth it for the pressure it generates for the Zombies both today and going forward.

The real IA absolutely does not come out now. Fouts is basically speaking as his voice by giving the information that the real IA has scanned. And until fouts dies, he can continue to do so, leaving the IA to scan in peace.

[Glengoyne]

My take on Fouts is to wait and see. I'm skeptical. I'm going to have to take a closer look at his order and rationale combined with some of the posting activity.

I'm willing to back off of snDvls as has been pointed out, he really only had that one bad day. My vote was placed there to create pressure. There is considerable interest provoked in me by Spleen's UtR approach at this point, so I'm going to move off of snDvls, while I see if there is any reason to challenge Fouts. Although I don't see a motivation to make a false reveal at this point.

unvote snDvls

Vote Spleen

[Fouts]

You don't think its odd that he just comes out easily and says "yep" ?

The only thing I can think of coming is Sndvls saying he is the umbrella seer so Fouts can't be thus giving fouts some credibility.. but thats kind of a bad B-movie plot.

Yeah its odd, but I like it. Bold move.

Do you trust anyone in this game?

[Fouts]

The real IA absolutely does not come out now. Fouts is basically speaking as his voice by giving the information that the real IA has scanned. And until fouts dies, he can continue to do so, leaving the IA to scan in peace.

Bingo, now you get it. Just trust what I am saying until the zombies off me. How hard is that.

[Chief Rum]

So, what do people think about the idea of the true IA coming out at this point? Assuming he can clear at least one other person of being a zombie we should be in a terrific spot to get a Zombie tonight.

That would leave the bodyguard with an interesting decision on who to guard tonight, but I think it is worth it for the pressure it generates for the Zombies both today and going forward.

If the "true IA" came out, wouldn't that call into question Fouts' info. We wouldn't be clearing more, we would be muddying everything.

Unless you mean the Umbrella seer. Yes, that would help. But there is also suppsoed to be an Umbrella BG. I would hope the BG's would protect their own.

[Alan T]

Yeah its odd, but I like it. Bold move.

Do you trust anyone in this game?

No not really. I have absolutely no idea who is on my team right now. I thought i did on day 2, was pretty certain on day 3 and now back to no clue anymore

[Lorena]

Okay, well my daughter fell asleep and I hope it's for the night. Can anyone tell me from what page (hopefully within 5) to start reading up on?

[SnDvls]

Alan - fouts ain't on my team and I know you are stars...out seer check you out yesterday.

vote spleen

[SnDvls]

I can also confirm one other person on fouts list as good per the umbrella seer

[Alan T]

Bingo, now you get it. Just trust what I am saying until the zombies off me. How hard is that.

I've been ok with that all along :) I was just saying I dont buy that you are the real IA. Your actions didnt seem to jibe with that :) Now that we are all being honest with each other, I'm a little bit happier. (That and the fact I actually was right all along with you being bad and being umbrella with lathum) :)

[BrianD]

Okay, well my daughter fell asleep and I hope it's for the night. Can anyone tell me from what page (hopefully within 5) to start reading up on?

Start with the page before this one.

[hoopsguy]

The real IA absolutely does not come out now. Fouts is basically speaking as his voice by giving the information that the real IA has scanned. And until fouts dies, he can continue to do so, leaving the IA to scan in peace.

No, Fouts speaks as the voice of the Umbrella seer. Not as the voice of the STARS seer (IA).

Maybe it isn't worth it if none of the current people getting votes have been scanned. But I feel it is absolutely worth it if they can help us avoid a bad vote tonight. I'm not one to advocate "everyone share their role" but there are situations where I think you maximize your chance for a good outcome with a reveal. I think there is a good chance we could do that here if IA can clear 2-3 more people tonight. Particularly if he can clear someone in danger of getting wrongfully voted off the island.

[spleen1015]

My take on Fouts is to wait and see. I'm skeptical. I'm going to have to take a closer look at his order and rationale combined with some of the posting activity.

I'm willing to back off of snDvls as has been pointed out, he really only had that one bad day. My vote was placed there to create pressure. There is considerable interest provoked in me by Spleen's UtR approach at this point, so I'm going to move off of snDvls, while I see if there is any reason to challenge Fouts. Although I don't see a motivation to make a false reveal at this point.

unvote snDvls

Vote Spleen


ZOMBIE!

If you are STARS, remove your votes from me. I am on your side!

[Fouts]

Alan - fouts ain't on my team and I know you are stars...out seer check you out yesterday.

vote spleen

Are you saying spleen is a zombie?

[Alan T]

Alan - fouts ain't on my team and I know you are stars...out seer check you out yesterday.

vote spleen

Something doesn't sit right with me on this statement.

My impression from this:

*James Marcus - May view one player's faction per night by hacking into the Internal Affaris computers from Umbrella HQ.


is that the Umbrella Seer taps into what the IA seer does each night. I guess I could have been wrong about this though.

[Chief Rum]

No, Fouts speaks as the voice of the Umbrella seer. Not as the voice of the STARS seer (IA).

Maybe it isn't worth it if none of the current people getting votes have been scanned. But I feel it is absolutely worth it if they can help us avoid a bad vote tonight. I'm not one to advocate "everyone share their role" but there are situations where I think you maximize your chance for a good outcome with a reveal. I think there is a good chance we could do that here if IA can clear 2-3 more people tonight. Particularly if he can clear someone in danger of getting wrongfully voted off the island.

Fouts said he is IA. Did I miss a reversal of that?

[Fouts]

Alan - fouts ain't on my team and I know you are stars...out seer check you out yesterday.

vote spleen

BTW, to me this doesn't mean Alan is STARS. I think you are smart enough not to clear a possible zombie. If the zombies win, we both lose.

[SnDvls]

Something doesn't sit right with me on this statement.

My impression from this:




is that the Umbrella Seer taps into what the IA seer does each night. I guess I could have been wrong about this though.


very wrong on this as it would be counter productive for the umbrella. we have our own independent seer.

[SnDvls]

BTW, to me this doesn't mean Alan is STARS. I think you are smart enough not to clear a possible zombie. If the zombies win, we both lose.

I know for 100% face Alan is STARS!!!

[SnDvls]

oops fact not face

[Fouts]

SnDvls, is spleen a zombie or is that a guess?

[Chief Rum]

Something doesn't sit right with me on this statement.

My impression from this:




is that the Umbrella Seer taps into what the IA seer does each night. I guess I could have been wrong about this though.

That was my impression, too.

Maybe we need a clarification from Chubby?

[Alan T]

great, so the person claiming to be my seer is saying he doesn't think I'm stars while the person who is umbrella is claiming I am. I love this game.

Another possibility is Sndvls and fouts are on the same team, and the list fouts provided is mixed with part scans and part people that are on umbrella and didn't need a scan for, but buys their team some trust for a bit.

[hoopsguy]

Something doesn't sit right with me on this statement.

My impression from this:




is that the Umbrella Seer taps into what the IA seer does each night. I guess I could have been wrong about this though.

Chubby should be able to clarify this for us. If you are interpreting the Umbrella seer as stealing Internal Affairs info then your previous comment about acting as the mouthpiece for the IA makes more sense to me.

If Fouts is the Umbrella seer then he would not have scanned Umbrella SnDvls on Night 2. So there should be another name (Alan?) on his list ...

[SnDvls]

SnDvls, is spleen a zombie or is that a guess?

it's a guess
self preservation

I do belive "a guess again" that Glen is a zombie though...he's actions come off to me that way.

[hoopsguy]

Fouts said he is IA. Did I miss a reversal of that?

Nope, I just don't believe him. But I do trust his list of non-Zombies.

[Alan T]

Chubby should be able to clarify this for us. If you are interpreting the Umbrella seer as stealing Internal Affairs info then your previous comment about acting as the mouthpiece for the IA makes more sense to me.

If Fouts is the Umbrella seer then he would not have scanned Umbrella SnDvls on Night 2. So there should be another name (Alan?) on his list ...

Yeah, now you see what my problem has been with these mass reveals tonight and not adding up. I might just be mistaken on how I read that role's behavior.

My thought was they hack into IA's computer.. so they learn what IA knows or knew... ie get info that our Seer gained. But I could be wrong.

[SnDvls]

great, so the person claiming to be my seer is saying he doesn't think I'm stars while the person who is umbrella is claiming I am. I love this game.

Another possibility is Sndvls and fouts are on the same team, and the list fouts provided is mixed with part scans and part people that are on umbrella and didn't need a scan for, but buys their team some trust for a bit.

problem is the stars seer didn't scan you only the umbrella seer did.

[Fouts]

great, so the person claiming to be my seer is saying he doesn't think I'm stars while the person who is umbrella is claiming I am. I love this game.


I laughed out loud at this.

[Glengoyne]

No reason for anyone to fish out the IA. The zombies are slaughtering us, it is time to make a stand.

I might vote for Glen. I'm still wondering about his move to encourage me to vote for SnDvls on day 2. Who would do that?

My other suspect is path, with reasons as stated before.

Well to answer this. Which I thought I already had. I was defending my vote more than challenging you to move. I was prepared to defend, what I felt was a principled villager vote, against someone who was suspicious, when I didn't like the lynch options presented. I would have stood by that vote all of the way to snDvls lynch. Even if he came up stars, I felt I had justification to place that first vote.

[hoopsguy]

Here is what I show for votes as of Post #1641:

(5) Spleen - LSG (1448), Hoops (1469), BrianD (1510), Path (1528), SnDvls (1622)
(2) Glen - AlanT (1520), Spleen (1543)
(1) SnDvls - Glen (1513)
(1) LSG - MrW (1488)
(1) Alan - DC (1590)

[Fouts]

it's a guess
self preservation

I do belive "a guess again" that Glen is a zombie though...he's actions come off to me that way.

Thanks, either of them could be. I want to hear from Glen more, maybe I should vote for him.

[SnDvls]

if I had to guess on a third or second zombie it'd be Mr. W...his vote on LSG is way out there to me.

[SnDvls]

Thanks, either of them could be. I want to hear from Glen more, maybe I should vote for him.

I would gladly follow

[Alan T]

Here is what I show for votes as of Post #1641:

(5) Spleen - LSG (1448), Hoops (1469), BrianD (1510), Path (1528), SnDvls (1622)
(2) Glen - AlanT (1520), Spleen (1543)
(1) SnDvls - Glen (1513)
(1) LSG - MrW (1488)
(1) Alan - DC (1590)

You missed Glen's vote change in 1616

(6) Spleen - Lonestargirl (1448), Hoopsguy (1469), BrianD (1510), Path (1528), Glengoyne (1616), Sndvls (1622)
(2) Glengoyne - Alan (1520), Spleen (1543)
(1) Lonestargirl - mr.wednesday (1488)
(1) Alan - Dodgerchick (1590)

[Alan T]

Heh, well I guess some good did come from my pushing of the Sndvls, Glengoyne, Fouts group hopefully earlier :)

[Fouts]

So our list of non-zombies has expanded;

LSG
SnDvls
Hoops
Fouts
Alan

That is 5 now. If I die tonight, I think the Umbrella faction should reveal a zombie or a known non-zombie. We need to cut down their numbers.

[BrianD]

Before we get too far past this page, note that Glen changed his vote off of SnDvls and on to Spleen just as SnDvls was about to reveal. He may have known this was coming.

[spleen1015]

At least you guys will remove me from the game, FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME. Bitches. :)

I'm just vanilla STARS.

[Alan T]

At least you guys will remove me from the game, FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME. Bitches. :)

I'm just vanilla STARS.

This is a very un-stars like post :)

[spleen1015]

This is a very un-stars like post :)

I will bet anyone left in the game FOF2K7 that I am STARS.

[Fouts]

I have 3 guys in mind;

spleen - lot of people voting for him, including all the people I know are not zombies.

Glen - some strange moves, but I can't pin anything down to him

path - first vote on Umbrella, and wasn't killed by zombies.

Hard choice. Chief Rum, Mr. W, DC/Anxiety and Brian have avoided heat most of the game. Their time will come.

[hoopsguy]

OK, I think we expect that Zombies have at least three people at this time, correct?

So should we be worried that there are three "cleared" and three "non-cleared" (using the terms very loosely here) on Spleen at this point?

[SnDvls]

I will bet anyone left in the game FOF2K7 that I am STARS.

why only people in the game? why not someone not in the game anymore?:)

[spleen1015]

why only people in the game? why not someone not in the game anymore?:)

Because those left in the game are all that matter. Dudes, I am willing to wager $39.95 on who I am in the game. That has to mean something!

[hoopsguy]

I will bet anyone left in the game FOF2K7 that I am STARS.

There was a big dispute on this point about 20 games back - betting as meta-gaming in WW. The result was that people were strongly discouraged from taking this action. That was after I bought Ardent Enthusiast pizza after taking him up on a bet when he called me a wolf in a game :p :mad: :D

[Chief Rum]

I have 3 guys in mind;

spleen - lot of people voting for him, including all the people I know are not zombies.

Glen - some strange moves, but I can't pin anything down to him

path - first vote on Umbrella, and wasn't killed by zombies.

Hard choice. Chief Rum, Mr. W, DC/Anxiety and Brian have avoided heat most of the game. Their time will come.

Agreed on this, except one. Why would the zombies care if path voted for Umbrella? They win whether Umbrella or STARS buys it.

[spleen1015]

There was a big dispute on this point about 20 games back - betting as meta-gaming in WW. The result was that people were strongly discouraged from taking this action. That was after I bought Ardent Enthusiast pizza after taking him up on a bet when he called me a wolf in a game :p :mad: :D

I apologize. This is only my 4th game. I am willing to do what I have to so that I don't get lynched tonight.

[SnDvls]

There was a big dispute on this point about 20 games back - betting as meta-gaming in WW. The result was that people were strongly discouraged from taking this action. That was after I bought Ardent Enthusiast pizza after taking him up on a bet when he called me a wolf in a game :p :mad: :D

agreed....just playing along and having fun.

[Fouts]

Because those left in the game are all that matter. Dudes, I am willing to wager $39.95 on who I am in the game. That has to mean something!

This is similar to buying votes and should be discouraged.

[hoopsguy]

No worries, just bringing it up as back in that game I felt like I had to take him up on the wager in order to protect my BS. I paid him off, as I was fine meeting up with a few FOFC people, but we had a fairly lengthy post-game conversation on the topic. I'll ask Barkeep to update the primer to include this "rule".

[spleen1015]

Come on you guys. Lynch Glen instead. If he's not a zombie, then I will vote for myself tomorrow along with the rest of you.

I'm just a vanilla STARS!

[Fouts]

Agreed on this, except one. Why would the zombies care if path voted for Umbrella? They win whether Umbrella or STARS buys it.

Because they are after the PC. I thought he might be after Lathum turned up Umbrella, but his actions after that have assured me he isn't.

[Chief Rum]

Okay, I am troubled by Glen and spleen. spleen has mostly been because of his quiet play and his argument with LSG. Glen has just seemed to draw a lot of attention, and I don't know I have bought too much of his voting decisions.

I would like to see this be a two horse race and see if we can get more info, so...

VOTE GLENGOYNE

I can be moved off of this, but we're going to have to hurry.

[SnDvls]

I have been cut off from info from my fellow umbrella..I have given up too much info aparentally now.

sorry folks, but I had to save my a$$

[Fouts]

Come on you guys. Lynch Glen instead. If he's not a zombie, then I will vote for myself tomorrow along with the rest of you.

I'm just a vanilla STARS!

Hmm, methinks you are trying too hard. Now I want to know what you are.

[spleen1015]

This is similar to buying votes and should be discouraged.

I'll apologize again. I'm sorry to everyone for throwing that out there. Well, everyone except Glen. I don't apologize top brain eaters.

When you guys lynch me tonight and turn out to be STARS, will you vote to lynch Glen tomorrow in honor of my death?

[Chief Rum]

Because they are after the PC. I thought he might be after Lathum turned up Umbrella, but his actions after that have assured me he isn't.

Yup, I could see that, good point. But I would think anyone voting for Lathum would look like a potential PC. But, yes, first vote lends more weight. I just don't know if there is enough there for the zombies to say to themselves, "Oh yeah, he's gotta go."

That night, they killed Tyrith and saldana. I don't remember saldana's play much, but I remember Tyrith being brought up as a PC possibility.

[Fouts]

I'm not sure on any of the remaining people, but all of my non-zombies have voted for spleen. That is enough for me.

vote spleen

[spleen1015]

Hmm, methinks you are trying too hard. Now I want to know what you are.

Dude, I'm trying to save my ass. I have no experience at that, so I am trying everything I can.

Notice how no one is trying to help me defend myself. That is because I am vanilla STARS and no one knows that but me and the PC, if he's around.

[spleen1015]

I'm not sure on any of the remaining people, but all of my non-zombies have voted for spleen. That is enough for me.

vote spleen

Fouts, if you are STARS, you're killing one of your own!

[BrianD]

We should also keep in mind that anyone scanned before the conversion could be a zombie now. Let's all use the cleared list, but be watchful for anyone that has been converted.

[Fouts]

Fouts, if you are STARS, you're killing one of your own!

Sorry bud. I just don't have enough to go on for anyone else.

[spleen1015]

The STARS faction deserves to lose this game. We haven't done anything but drag our dicks around for 4 days, me included.

If you are voting for me, tell me why, please?

[Glengoyne]

Before we get too far past this page, note that Glen changed his vote off of SnDvls and on to Spleen just as SnDvls was about to reveal. He may have known this was coming.

I moved off of snDvls because of Fouts' reveal. I'm catching up.

I see contradictory, at least it seems that way, info coming from two seers.

Fouts should have positive ID if he is IAD, the suspicion that he is Umbrella comes up, and then snDvls pops out that he is umbrella.

I'm cathcing up, now and see that they are pushing to lynch ME!!

What the hell? I haven't done anything but try and figure out who is who. Spleen comes out and pushes hard at the number two vote getter. Who'd have guessed that?

[hoopsguy]

Spleen, if you are vanilla STARS you have had lousy luck this game.
Day 1 - Bullet (dead, cleared)
Day 2 - Alan (pseudo-cleared)
Day 3 - Cronin (dead cleared)
Day 4 - LSG (pseudo-cleared), SnDvls (admitted Umbrella)

Vote records alone are not a perfect indicator, but yours is about as bad as it gets at the moment.

[Fouts]

Spleen, if you are vanilla STARS you have had lousy luck this game.
Day 1 - Bullet (dead, cleared)
Day 2 - Alan (pseudo-cleared)
Day 3 - Cronin (dead cleared)
Day 4 - LSG (pseudo-cleared), SnDvls (admitted Umbrella)

Vote records alone are not a perfect indicator, but yours is about as bad as it gets at the moment.

Death nail. Spleen has done nothing to help STARS.

[spleen1015]

Spleen, if you are vanilla STARS you have had lousy luck this game.
Day 1 - Bullet (dead, cleared)
Day 2 - Alan (pseudo-cleared)
Day 3 - Cronin (dead cleared)
Day 4 - LSG (pseudo-cleared), SnDvls (admitted Umbrella)

Vote records alone are not a perfect indicator, but yours is about as bad as it gets at the moment.

My vote that will count for Day 4 is on Glen. Watch it will turn out to be a good one.

I'm a vanilla STARS, I have nothing to go by but what other people say.

You guys are lynching the wrong person tonight. If you want a zombie, you're not going to get it with me.

[hoopsguy]

I'm not terribly comfortable with the creamy middle of the Spleen vote (BrianD, Path, Glen).

SnDvls and Fouts - how comfortable are you with Spleen vs Glen? I'm pretty close to moving, as I share Alan's concern with Glengoyne's posts today.

[spleen1015]

Death nail. Spleen has done nothing to help STARS.

Let's assume that I am a vanilla STARS member, what can I do but follow folks that could have information?

[Glengoyne]

I have been cut off from info from my fellow umbrella..I have given up too much info aparentally now.

sorry folks, but I had to save my a$$

This is all happening very fast now.

My take on this is that I dont' buy it. I"ve learned in Tombstone to get your point across in case you die...so if not for self preservation I'd keep my vote on snDvls.

[hoopsguy]

If I had seen the people I suspect as Umbrella creating the surge on my candidate I would feel better. But I'm worried that it is the Zombies in the middle, with their own (Glen) in a run-off.

Alan, do you have a Vote/Unvote chart for today?

[spleen1015]

Death nail. Spleen has done nothing to help STARS.

Up until your reveal, you hadn't done a damn thing for us either. Without a role to reveal, I'm left with nothing.

[SnDvls]

I'm not terribly comfortable with the creamy middle of the Spleen vote (BrianD, Path, Glen).

SnDvls and Fouts - how comfortable are you with Spleen vs Glen? I'm pretty close to moving, as I share Alan's concern with Glengoyne's posts today.


I'd prefer Glen over spleen IMO

[SnDvls]

unvote spleen
vote Glen

[SnDvls]

dola - that's how much I feel for it

[Chief Rum]

Alan, do you have a Vote/Unvote chart for today?

I'll see if I can put one together real quick.

[Glengoyne]

...
SnDvls and Fouts - how comfortable are you with Spleen vs Glen? I'm pretty close to moving, as I share Alan's concern with Glengoyne's posts today.

I wish I could address which ones.

This eleventh hour reveal is rigged to force hasty decisions.

That is why I'm sort of regretting the move off of snDvls.

As for Spleen's request to kill me tomorrow if he is lynched tonight. I'll be cleared by then, I'm sure of that.

[BrianD]

I'm not terribly comfortable with the creamy middle of the Spleen vote (BrianD, Path, Glen).

SnDvls and Fouts - how comfortable are you with Spleen vs Glen? I'm pretty close to moving, as I share Alan's concern with Glengoyne's posts today.

Please note that I was the first one to point out Glen shifted to Spleen before the reveal. I wouldn't have pointed this out if I was trying to hide with him.

[Alan T]

If I had seen the people I suspect as Umbrella creating the surge on my candidate I would feel better. But I'm worried that it is the Zombies in the middle, with their own (Glen) in a run-off.

Alan, do you have a Vote/Unvote chart for today?

(1387) Alan votes hoopsguy (1)
(1400) Spleen votes Lonestargirl (1)
(1417) Lonestargirl votes Sndvls (1)
(1448) Lonestargirl UNVOTES Sndvls (0)
(1448) Lonestargirl votes Spleen (1)
(1464) BrianD votes Lonestargirl (2)
(1469) Hoops votes Spleen (2)
(1484) Alan UNVOTES Hoopsguy (0) ***
(1484) Alan votes Sndvls (1)
(1488) mr.wednesday votes lonestargirl (3)
(1491) chiefrum votes sndvls (2)
(1497) Spleen UNVOTES Lonestargirl (2) ***
(1497) Spleen votes Sndvls (3)
(1510) BrianD UNVOTES Lonestargirl (1) ***
(1510) BrianD votes Spleen (3)
(1513) Glengoyne votes Sndvls (4)
(1520) Alan UNVOTES Sndvls (3) ***
(1520) Alan Votes Glengoyne (1)
(1528) path votes spleen (4)
(1543) Spleen UNVOTES Sndvls (2) ***
(1543) Spleen votes Glengoyne (2)
(1586) Chief Rum UNVOTES Sndvls (1) ***
(1590) Dodgerchick votes Alan (1)
(1616) Glengoyne UNVOTES Sndvls (0) ***
(1616) Glengoyne votes spleen (5)
(1622) Sndvls votes Spleen (6)
(1668) Chief Rum votes Glengoyne (3)
(1673) Fouts votes spleen (7)

[LoneStarGirl]

Glen, Spleen, and MrW seem to be the three zombies in my opinion, but i dont want to take my vote off of spleen because of the discussion we had earlier and the fact i think he is trying to hard.

[spleen1015]

I wish I could address which ones.

This eleventh hour reveal is rigged to force hasty decisions.

That is why I'm sort of regretting the move off of snDvls.

As for Spleen's request to kill me tomorrow if he is lynched tonight. I'll be cleared by then, I'm sure of that.

SnDvls is confirmed Umbrella, if he is to be believed. So, you can't be Umbrella. There is no way in hell you're STARS.

Get 'em boys!

[Glengoyne]

Please note that I was the first one to point out Glen shifted to Spleen before the reveal. I wouldn't have pointed this out if I was trying to hide with him.

what point are yuou trying to make here?

That I knew that snDvls was coming out? That DON"T make me a zombie. I'm solidly in the Stars camp. How would I KNOW snDvls was coming out?

Think this through.

[spleen1015]

Glen, Spleen, and MrW seem to be the three zombies in my opinion, but i dont want to take my vote off of spleen because of the discussion we had earlier and the fact i think he is trying to hard.

So, you're voting for me because I called you a dumbass for calling me sexist?

[Glengoyne]

SnDvls is confirmed Umbrella, if he is to be believed. So, you can't be Umbrella. There is no way in hell you're STARS.

Get 'em boys!

SO you're claiming seer now?

snDvls comes out and says his team cut him off. That is what I'm questioning. All I know is that a hell of a lot of confusion is being tossed around here at the end, and stars is going to pay for it if they are hasty.

[BrianD]

what point are yuou trying to make here?

That I knew that snDvls was coming out? That DON"T make me a zombie. I'm solidly in the Stars camp. How would I KNOW snDvls was coming out?

Think this through.

I'm just saying that SnDvls made it pretty clear that he was about to reveal something and you made your shift between the "here it comes" post and the actual reveal. That seemed important. I don't know if you were afraid that he was going to point to you or if you are also umbrella and wanted to get your vote in early so it didn't look like you were following him. Mostly I just wanted to point the vote out in case it was important later.

[spleen1015]

SO you're claiming seer now?

snDvls comes out and says his team cut him off. That is what I'm questioning. All I know is that a hell of a lot of confusion is being tossed around here at the end, and stars is going to pay for it if they are hasty.

I don't know what you're worried about. I'm getting lynched.

[Fouts]

SO you're claiming seer now?

snDvls comes out and says his team cut him off. That is what I'm questioning. All I know is that a hell of a lot of confusion is being tossed around here at the end, and stars is going to pay for it if they are hasty.

I don't like this post at all.

[Glengoyne]

Glen, Spleen, and MrW seem to be the three zombies in my opinion, but i dont want to take my vote off of spleen because of the discussion we had earlier and the fact i think he is trying to hard.

Well I disagree with your assessment of zombiehood, well at least my portion of it. You can bet I'll be scanned tonight. And it is about damned time.

[spleen1015]

SO you're claiming seer now?

snDvls comes out and says his team cut him off. That is what I'm questioning. All I know is that a hell of a lot of confusion is being tossed around here at the end, and stars is going to pay for it if they are hasty.

I'm not claiming anything other than vanilla STARS. I'm just stating it is my opinion that you aren't STARS.

[Glengoyne]

I don't like this post at all.

Hey it seems off to me. They cut him off? I'm just questioning it.

[LoneStarGirl]

So, you're voting for me because I called you a dumbass for calling me sexist?

I never called you sexist. I said you had no proof to vote for me and the only thing setting me apart from the rest of the UTR people was the fact i had boobs. You interpretted it to be me calling you sexist.

[Fouts]

Hey it seems off to me. They cut him off? I'm just questioning it.

The part I didn't like was you saying that there was a lot of confusion being thrown around. Before my reveal, it was all confusion, now it should be more clear.

Why would you think it was more confusing? Once I am dead you can verify that I was telling the truth. Would you rather I died tonight with my info?

[Glengoyne]

I also just realized that we aren't like three minutes from deadline.

So I can slow down and catch my breath a bit. With my name being thrown around so much, I wanted to avoid a couple of votes moving at the wire because I wasn't responding.

I just now realized that the vote ws lopsided toward Spleen.

[Fouts]

Hey it seems off to me. They cut him off? I'm just questioning it.

And I don't buy that they cut him off. Just a way for him to not give us any more info tonight. I don't think they hold anything that would help with this lynch anyway. If they did, then they are giving the game to the zombies.

[hoopsguy]

I'm going to flip to Glen here. Glen, I'll see if I can pull up posts after this so you can respond over the next hour leading up to deadline.

UNVOTE SPLEEN
VOTE GLENGOYNE

[Fouts]

I also just realized that we aren't like three minutes from deadline.

So I can slow down and catch my breath a bit. With my name being thrown around so much, I wanted to avoid a couple of votes moving at the wire because I wasn't responding.

I just now realized that the vote ws lopsided toward Spleen.

Why shouldn't we vote for you? I don't recall you ever claiming a side.

[Fouts]

Has anyone not voted?

[Glengoyne]

The part I didn't like was you saying that there was a lot of confusion being thrown around. Before my reveal, it was all confusion, now it should be more clear.

Why would you think it was more confusing? Once I am dead you can verify that I was telling the truth. Would you rather I died tonight with my info?

OK OK.

Now that I have an hour I'm more comfortable.

The confusion was around snDvls reveal, and then subsequent claim he had been "cutoff".

I'd never even considered such a thing, and frankly don't see a reason for it. It didn't pass my sniff test, so I threw it out there.

I do see now that you have actually cleared him, and are positively the stars IAD. Earlier I was cught up in the speculation that you were Umbrella moving the vote off of a team mate.

[SnDvls]

And I don't buy that they cut him off. Just a way for him to not give us any more info tonight. I don't think they hold anything that would help with this lynch anyway. If they did, then they are giving the game to the zombies.

they were pretty pissed off I came out so quick and gave up Alan's name. so yes I got cut off. you see umbrella doesn't win if just the zombies are eliminated. When I came out the swell had turned from me to spleen. I have umbrella vicotory conditions so that is what pissed them off. They wanted me to take one for the team, but I was trying to save my own butt tonight. but it looks like unless the zombies take me out I'll be here until the end anyhow.

[st.cronin]

1 more hour to lynch, guys. Daylight Savings Time, you know.

[SnDvls]

1 more hour to lynch, guys. Daylight Savings Time, you know.

all you clock movers :D

[spleen1015]

I'll say it AGAIN! If you are STARS, a vote for me is a very bad thing!

[path12]

Has anyone not voted?

I don't think so.

[Chief Rum]

Voting patterns, Day Four

(1387) AlanT votes hoopsguy (1)
(1400) spleen votes LSG (1)
(1417) LSG votes SnDvls (1)
(1448) LSG UNVOTES SnDvls (0)***
(1448) LSG votes spleen (1)
(1464) BrianD votes LSG (2)
(1469) hoopsguy votes spleen (2)
(1484) AlanT UNVOTES hoopsguy (0)***
(1484) AlanT votes SnDvls (1)
(1488) MrW votes LSG (3)
(1491) Chief Rum votes SnDvls (2)
(1497) spleen UNVOTES LSG (2)***
(1497) spleen votes SnDvls (3)
(1510) BrianD UNVOTES LSG (1)***
(1510) BrianD votes spleen (3)
(1513) Glengoyne votes SnDvls (4)
(1520) AlanT UNVOTES SnDvls (3)***
(1520) AlanT votes Glengoyne (1)
(1528) path votes spleen (4)
(1543) spleen UNVOTES SnDvls (2)***
(1543) spleen votes Glengoyne (2)
(1586) Chief Rum UNVOTES SnDvls (1)***
(1590) Dodgerchick votes AlanT (1)
(1616) Glengoyne UNVOTES SnDvls (0)***
(1616) Glengoyne votes spleen (5)
(1622) SnDvls votes spleen (6)
(1668) Chief Rum votes Glengoyne (3)
(1673) Fouts votes spleen (7)
(1689) SnDvls UNVOTES spleen (6)
(1689) SnDvls votes Glengoyne (4)
(1710) hoopsguy UNVOTES spleen (5)***
(1710) hoopsguy votes Glengoyne (5)

I see Alan already posted, but I started to do the work, so I finished. I also have hoops' switch.

[Glengoyne]

Why shouldn't we vote for you? I don't recall you ever claiming a side.

I've certainly claimed STARS. I haven't claimed any role, but I've certainly claimed stars.

[spleen1015]

I've certainly claimed STARS. I haven't claimed any role, but I've certainly claimed stars.

So, which is it, Mr. Zombie? STARS or stars?

[hoopsguy]

Spleen, what was the "strategy" that you alluded to on Day 2? Have you followed it?

[Glengoyne]

So, which is it, Mr. Zombie? STARS or stars?

Nice. This is a stretch.

[hoopsguy]

Glen, if you have a STARS role it might be worth coming forward with it so we can evaluate that information as part of our decision.

[path12]

they were pretty pissed off I came out so quick and gave up Alan's name. so yes I got cut off.

Assuming this is true my first thought is: wow, hoops and alan on the same team? I wouldn't have thought that at all the way they've been at each other.

[spleen1015]

Spleen, what was the "strategy" that you alluded to on Day 2? Have you followed it?

I abandoned it on Day 2. I was picking a person each day to follow, hoping they were the PC. I followed Alan on Day 1, thinking it was him. Then, on day 2, I had a strong feeling that Alan was not STARS after I saw flaws in his theory concerning st. cronin. So, I abandoned it and voted for him that day.

[Alan T]

Assuming this is true my first thought is: wow, hoops and alan on the same team? I wouldn't have thought that at all the way they've been at each other.

We dont know that hoops is on stars. according to fouts he is just not zombie

[Fouts]

I abandoned it on Day 2. I was picking a person each day to follow, hoping they were the PC. I followed Alan on Day 1, thinking it was him. Then, on day 2, I had a strong feeling that Alan was not STARS after I saw flaws in his theory concerning st. cronin. So, I abandoned it and voted for him that day.

So you didn't like Alan's theory so much that the next day you helped to kill Cronin?

[hoopsguy]

I abandoned it on Day 2. I was picking a person each day to follow, hoping they were the PC. I followed Alan on Day 1, thinking it was him. Then, on day 2, I had a strong feeling that Alan was not STARS after I saw flaws in his theory concerning st. cronin. So, I abandoned it and voted for him that day.

I learned in your game that things are never as they seem. I want to vote for you based on the fact that I thik your theory is bunk. You're pushing for it a great deal and that is a red flag for me. I'm not going to let that influence how I vote though. I am going to wait on that.

I decided on a strategy to follow in the early game yesterday and I am going to stick to it for now. It didn't work out with bullet being a good guy, but it narrows down my choices for today. I just need to see how things develop today.

You only had one more post on Day 2, and that was when you voted for Alan. I ran a list of your Day 2 posts in Post #1453. Your vote post was Post #564.

[Glengoyne]

Allright
All I have done is play a simple villager game. Trying to identify who is who.

Early on I was happy to vote bullet, as he wasn't here, and I didn't have a feel for anything.

Day two I was leaning to belive Alan as Umbrella. I agreed with Cronin and others were making sense. snDvls does his drive by and I made a solid first vote for him.

Day three I came in looking to follow Hoops and Cronin. Hoops got flipped or flipped onto Cronin, and another stars bought it. I didnt' vote for him, because I believed him to be stars, just a "gut" thing.

That brings us to today.

I vote snDvls to put some pressure on him, and then the information avalanche of reveals and posts and accusations as I log in to see what is up.

[hoopsguy]

Gah, I want to vote for both of these guys.

[Chief Rum]

Current vote tally of Post #1726:

Spleen (5)-- LSG (1448), BrianD (1510), path (1528), Glengoyne (1616), Fouts (1673)
Glengoyne (5)-- AlanT (1520), spleen (1543), Chief Rum (1668), SnDvls (1689), hoopsguy (1710)
LoneStarGirl (1)-- MrWednesday (1488)
AlanT (1)-- Dodgerchick (1593)

[BrianD]

We need to make sure we don't end up with a tie. We've got to learn something from tonight.

[Glengoyne]

Glen, if you have a STARS role it might be worth coming forward with it so we can evaluate that information as part of our decision.

Nope No Role. I was thinking that was clear, but I guess in rereading my post it wasn't.

[hoopsguy]

Spleen, I'm going to be really bummed if you do prove to be vanila STARS. But your style of play changed dramatically from last game, your voting record is terrible, and I just do not trust you at this point.

UNVOTE GLENGOYNE
VOTE SPLEEN

[Chief Rum]

So we're tied people. DC may be catching up (I hope).

[Fouts]

Gah, I want to vote for both of these guys.

LOL me too!

[spleen1015]

Spleen, I'm going to be really bummed if you do prove to be vanila STARS. But your style of play changed dramatically from last game, your voting record is terrible, and I just do not trust you at this point.

UNVOTE GLENGOYNE
VOTE SPLEEN

All I can say is you're going to be sorry that you voted for me. Prepared to be really bummed.

[spleen1015]

You only had one more post on Day 2, and that was when you voted for Alan. I ran a list of your Day 2 posts in Post #1453. Your vote post was Post #564.

I don't get what you are telling me here. Please spell it out for me.

[Glengoyne]

We need to make sure we don't end up with a tie. We've got to learn something from tonight.

DC is still to vote I think once she catches up. I'm hoping Hoops will evaluate me point blank and change his vote.

I'll take the examination Hoops, or anyone for that matter. Ask away.


I'd prefer the seer scan in the morning to a lynch post mortem tonight, and all I can think of doing now is to come as clean as possible.

[Fouts]

Alan, I'm trying to understand Spleen as a candidate for my vote today.

He could have found your theory to be bunk because of potential impact on Fouts, not on Cronin.

Who would have a good reason to be certain your theory was bunk on Day 2? Well, Police Chief would be one. Someone who had scanned one of the two parties and knew their faction? But he was faulting your theory before Chubby sent PMs (post #423).

Spleen is not the Chief - there would have been an opportunity for him to turn the Day 3 vote when he put his in if he came out loudly.

I'm of a strong suspicion that he is not a vanilla STARS. There is a drastic change in his style of play. He has alluded to a "strategy" that there is no vision of executing. He is calling out UTR players when he has been more UTR than most (based on posts and change in style of play). If I was voting right now, he would have my vote.

This post here keeps my vote on spleen.

[hoopsguy]

Sure, you say that you abandoned your strategy in Day 2. But the post I quoted shows you were still executing your strategy on Day 2. There was never any mention of giving up on said strategy in your posts - only the opposite idea that you were following your strategy (as I bolded).

[Chief Rum]

DC is still to vote I think once she catches up. I'm hoping Hoops will evaluate me point blank and change his vote.

I'll take the examination Hoops, or anyone for that matter. Ask away.


I'd prefer the seer scan in the morning to a lynch post mortem tonight, and all I can think of doing now is to come as clean as possible.

Hoops already changed his vote, although he wants to vote for both you and spleen (can't say I blame him).

DC already has a vote in on AlanT. Hope that doesn't stay there, but who knows.

MrW was here earlier today and made a vote that made a little sense then, but he hasn't been back since. I think he might have said he wouldn't be able to be on much, so that could be key.

[spleen1015]

Sure, you say that you abandoned your strategy in Day 2. But the post I quoted shows you were still executing your strategy on Day 2. There was never any mention of giving up on said strategy in your posts - only the opposite idea that you were following your strategy (as I bolded).

I get what you are saying. In the end, I decided to end my strategy and vote for him anyway.

You guys need a zombie today. Not me.

[Lorena]

Current vote tally of Post #1726:

Spleen (5)-- LSG (1448), BrianD (1510), path (1528), Glengoyne (1616), Fouts (1673)
Glengoyne (5)-- AlanT (1520), spleen (1543), Chief Rum (1668), SnDvls (1689), hoopsguy (1710)
LoneStarGirl (1)-- MrWednesday (1488)
AlanT (1)-- Dodgerchick (1593)

Almost here... damn, if it's not my daughter, it's my son. I need to have Antmeister watch them while I play WW :D

[Lorena]

Spleen, if you are vanilla STARS you have had lousy luck this game.
Day 1 - Bullet (dead, cleared)
Day 2 - Alan (pseudo-cleared)
Day 3 - Cronin (dead cleared)
Day 4 - LSG (pseudo-cleared), SnDvls (admitted Umbrella)

Vote records alone are not a perfect indicator, but yours is about as bad as it gets at the moment.

Okay, I glanced at as much as I could, based on what you guys suggested. Based on this, I have to...

unvote AlanT
Vote spleen

Spleen, my apologies in advance if chose incorrectly.

[spleen1015]

Oh well. It was a good game. I guess this is what I get for watching this time instead of talking.

Good luck to STARS. You're going to need it because now you guys are even more behind.

[Lorena]

Based on hoops's quote I mean. I voted for spleen based on the voting record. If I learned anything at all from previous games, it's that voting records mean a lot.

[Glengoyne]

I'm keeping the page fresh to see if anyone has any questions for me. I'm also looking back to see what happened to get me put in the spotlight.

Not going anywhere.

[hoopsguy]

Glen, here is some post info from you today - don't have enough time to do a full-game recap.

Post #1413: musing on BrianD's "UTR/Infector" theory, position Alan as Umbrella. Sure, this makes sense for awhile, until everyone checks in today ...

Post #1513: talks about SnDvls votes on Day2/3. Says again he thinks Alan is Umbrella, but why still have this view when everyone has checked in and no one has called out Alan's loyalties? Has me as possible Umbrella, except I played a role in driving vote at Lathum on Day 2. I could see thinking I was Zombie, but Umbrella??? Then tempted to come back to Alan and I, worried that we have been preventing CoT. Some mumbling about Occam's Razor - just a very convoluted post.

Post #1523 - nothing all that odd, kind of concede points I make about Alan while reserving your right to distrust us

Post #1616 - suggest you will take closer look at Fouts' reveal, posting activity, etc. Has there been any review? Back of SnDvls vote (3 straight days) to move vote to Spleen

Post #1644 - talks about initial SnDvls vote. Nothing that odd here, I don't think.

Post #1679 - asked why he moved off of SnDvls right before SnDvls reveal by BrianD, responds that it was because of Fouts' reveal

Post #1685 - says he would keep vote on SnDvls if not for self-preservation (huh?)

Post #1692 - wants to address questions about him, still sort of regretting moving off of SnDvls


Your early thoughts were all pretty much wrong based on seer views. Later, you lament wishing you could keep your vote on SnDvls, even though it seems widely accepted that he is Umbrella. I'm having a hard time understanding your thought process this game.