WW LXVII - Heroes (GAME OVER! HEROES WIN!)

[Barkeep49]

Dola,

I think it might actually be worthwhile to see who brought up the whole "Ardent isn't around" as a reason not to vote for him when the run on Neon occured. If anything is metagame, that is a metagame method to try to save Ardent. I'll go back and look to see who actually started that in an effort to save ardent without appearing to try.
I'll say that I used it as a reason to explain why I didn't vote for him.

[Barkeep49]

my vote was not for any meta-game reason at all. he fouled up on his "power/ability" and I picked up on it.

if someone else's was because he wasn't here I don't know, but I openly stated my suspicision of his statement just after he made it.
Did he really though? Didn't he indeed have a passive ability?

[Alan T]

A very close vote. I really don't like the votes on Neon and Ardent since it feels to me people more have a problem with the times they're available than the players themselves. As I said that I don't think Thomkal is the solution, I'm going to go ahead and vote for the only other guy in contention at the moment.

Vote Jackal

The case against ardent:

Claimed to have no NIGHT actions.
Appears to not be able to contribute a whole lot, based on schedule.

These are the only two things I see referring to schedule. I'm already suspicious of Cronin, not sure if I'm ready to jump in to the pool of thought that BK was trying to subtly influence people to not vote Ardent by throwing out the suggestion that votes on him were due to inactivity or schedule. Guess its something to watch.

[RendeR]

Did he really though? Didn't he indeed have a passive ability?


I'm not sure it was so much that Ardent fouled up as his comments about his power just really set off SnDvls radar in a big way. I didn't think anything of it at the time, but Sunny did, so good call on his part.

[SnDvls]

Did he really though? Didn't he indeed have a passive ability?

he said he didn't have a night power/ability...if your ability is to "always be invisible" and you could see from your own role you couldn't be spied on and you always came up a hero I'd say you have an ability...weather he had to submit a PM to activate it doesn't say no to having a night power/ability. He always had it, he just didn't have to submit a PM to put it in action...the PM was reserved for him to put in a kill ;)

[Alan T]

Well.. things kind of calmed down a bit. I'm heading out soon so going to get a vote in before I go. Like the past two days, I can change it if I choose to later!

Based on my previously described gut instinct

Vote St.Cronin

[claphamsa]

WTF people I have a booring day of traingin and come b ack to 9 pages of posts!!!!

ghood job whoever killed ardent!

[claphamsa]

wow this is gonna take for ever....

[Barkeep49]

WTF people I have a booring day of traingin and come b ack to 9 pages of posts!!!!

ghood job whoever killed ardent!
It might have been boring but "Lathum presents how to spell" clearly did teach you something.

[claphamsa]

:)

ill never figure out why this is the only site that firefox wont fix,.....

[Barkeep49]

:)

ill never figure out why this is the only site that firefox wont fix,.....
Firefox's spell check works for me at FOFC (even got the red squiggly under FOFC)

[claphamsa]

Firefox's spell check works for me at FOFC (even got the red squiggly under FOFC)
ok now thats crreeeepyyyy!

[Lathum]

It might have been boring but "Lathum presents how to spell" clearly did teach you something.

:mad:

[SnDvls]

Lathum = Teh worlds' bst spellar

:D

all in fun man, all in fun

[st.cronin]

I'm not really sold on this just yet, but the way he is pushing on Thomkal helps me feel stronger to vote for Cronin today. This isn't any more than a gut feeling though, and probably one that isn't any better than the gut feeling I had on Ardent..

What in God's name are you talking about??? If people are just going to start making stuff up I'll quit.

[Lathum]

Lathum = Teh worlds' bst spellar

:D

all in fun man, all in fun

you guys wouldn't be laughing if yu knew I had to repeat the second grade twice because of my learning dissability

[st.cronin]

My vote on ardent was simply a welcome back, and then there was never a reason to move it, since nobody else made a compelling candidate. And all I said about Thomkal was, if we know he's a villager, then we know a lot about the vote.

[Schmidty]

Just woke up for a bathroom break. Glad to see that to see we got AE, although I wish I had helped do so. At least now we have a MUCH better idea of who we can trust, and who we need to question (and yes, I realize that that includes me).

[Alan T]

What in God's name are you talking about??? If people are just going to start making stuff up I'll quit.


I don't think I'm making anything up here. Maybe I am mistaken on your intentions for these two posts.. the way that I read your following posts the impression that I received was that you would be interested in putting Thomkal under the fire once again today for a lynch vote.


We need to figure out Thomkal. If Thomkal = villager, then we have a substantial COT.

Votes switching. If the votes moved from Thomkal (villager) to Ardent (wolf), then I am going to assume the votes that moved are villager votes. If Thomkal is a wolf, which I have no idea if he is, then we really have no data, the vote was wolf vs. wolf.


Now I might be making a poor read of you, and I might be making a poor read of Thomkal.. but based on the way Pass played and THomkal has since played I think that we want to keep him around. So when I added up my prior suspicions about you based on some actions you made (purely gut instincts on my part), combined with my interpretation of what you were doing with your ardent vote plus trying to push in my mind a thomkal vote...

I just don't get a good feeling about you at all right now. If I'm wrong then.. well I guess its not the first time I felt pretty strongly about you and was completely wrong.. but its the best I have to go on right now.

[st.cronin]

"Actions"

Are you sure you don't mean posts? I don't know that I've made any actions that you would be aware of.

[RendeR]

What is in the fucking water today? everybody is pissing everybody else off today.

Cept for me

For a change.

[st.cronin]

What is in the fucking water today? everybody is pissing everybody else off today.

Cept for me

For a change.

I'm ok, I just saw what I thought was going to be an attempt to get my lynched based on a falsehood.

[RendeR]

I'm ok, I just saw what I thought was going to be an attempt to get my lynched based on a falsehood.

Ahh, see I consider every day a chance to get YOU lynched dude. you're always a wolf, even when yer not.

[mauchow]

Interesting day. And I missed all the juicy details. I kept up a little bit but work was too busy to make a point or two.

I didn't think we'd actually nail a company player today, but awesome regardless!!!

Anyways, I'll be able to contribute a little bit more tomorrow as I'm off, finally.

[st.cronin]

For the record, I will likely not be around tomorrow at all. So I'll put a vote tonight. Hopefully some information is forthcoming, or discussion of some kind.

[Alan T]

For the record, I will likely not be around tomorrow at all. So I'll put a vote tonight. Hopefully some information is forthcoming, or discussion of some kind.

I likely won't be around a bunch tonight, but since you won't be around tommorrow .. would you like to convince me otherwise to why I shouldn't vote for you today? I admit its mostly a gut call based on how you've reacted subtly to certain things. If I had to be honest, my gut feel for why Ardent was bad wasn't as much based on anything Ardent did but instead because of things you did.

So while I look all smart and everything about being right on Ardent, it could have very well been blind luck on my part... I'm open to any conversation or arguements you might have to persuade me elsewhere.

[st.cronin]

I likely won't be around a bunch tonight, but since you won't be around tommorrow .. would you like to convince me otherwise to why I shouldn't vote for you today? I admit its mostly a gut call based on how you've reacted subtly to certain things. If I had to be honest, my gut feel for why Ardent was bad wasn't as much based on anything Ardent did but instead because of things you did.

So while I look all smart and everything about being right on Ardent, it could have very well been blind luck on my part... I'm open to any conversation or arguements you might have to persuade me elsewhere.


You need to explain what you're seeing more. Let me translate what you're saying into how it sounds to me:

- something about st.cronin seems fishy
- st.cronin voted for ardent, therefore ardent is a wolf
- ardent turned up wolf, therefore cronin is a wolf!

It doesn't make any sense to me, and I don't know how to respond to it.

[Schmidty]

You need to explain what you're seeing more. Let me translate what you're saying into how it sounds to me:

- something about st.cronin seems fishy
- st.cronin voted for ardent, therefore ardent is a wolf
- ardent turned up wolf, therefore cronin is a wolf!

It doesn't make any sense to me, and I don't know how to respond to it.

I shouldn't join this debate, but I have to agree with st.cronin here. Going from the gut is something I would do, not Alan.

[Alan T]

You need to explain what you're seeing more. Let me translate what you're saying into how it sounds to me:

- something about st.cronin seems fishy
- st.cronin voted for ardent, therefore ardent is a wolf
- ardent turned up wolf, therefore cronin is a wolf!

It doesn't make any sense to me, and I don't know how to respond to it.

I'm not really that concerned with convincing you whether you are good or not. I'm pretty sure you have a good idea of which the case may be. So I'm not sure what would be accomplished by me trying to explain my gut instinct to you right now.

I can try to explain to others if they want to understand it better when trying to make their vote decision, but just like my vote with Ardent, its really tough to explain gut instincts. Its the subtle way you dropped things in regards to Pass vs me originally, then turned a blind eye to the subtle way Pass ended up diffusing that situation, the way you ignored some of the comments that Thomkal made regarding me when he came around, and how you didn't seem to register some of the other comments Thomkal made when he was up for lynch. The way you still tried to dangle Thomkal vs me even long after it was no longer an issue to either of us, and the way you tried to passive-aggressively toss my name around yesterday while still being friendly with me.

Then looking at how you voted for Ardent, his response to your votes for him, comparing it with how you and he have interacted in the past, the difference of reaction in my viewing of the interaction just made me feel something was up there. I made that my point when I voted for Ardent yesterday, trying to push him closer to harm's way.. and I made sure that it was very public that I wanted to see if it made you move your vote at all. It left you in a place where at any point there wasn't a real good reason for you to move your vote off of him so instead you gave weird reasons for why people were voting for Ardent when others asked. (The whole different schedule thing). Your reason for people voting Ardent was in my opinion phrased a certain way to look less appealing for others, yet your vote still remained there. It was the best way you could try to help save Ardent without outing yourself.

Now 99.9% of that is simply subjective reads on my part and a gut instict without much proof at all. So I might fully be wrong, and just like with Ardent, I'm not going to be actively pushing you as a vote choice. I'll leave it up to others if they feel they have a better choice with someone else. Likewise I'll keep my opinions open in case I see something better pop in.

Now, what I was hoping you would do is help give me a better candidate or some reason why I shouldn't be pushing for you.. I don't see the point in me trying to convince you that you are bad at all :)

[st.cronin]

Schmidty, you're actually one of my top suspects right now. You were around during the craziness at the deadline yesterday, but never moved off of no lynch ... which, considering there were like three different people who said they didn't find that particularly suspicious, would be an excellent place for a wolf to hide.

[Alan T]

I shouldn't join this debate, but I have to agree with st.cronin here. Going from the gut is something I would do, not Alan.


I am guessing St.Cronin would disagree with this statement as he has been the unfortunate victim of my incorrect gut calls about him not only once in the past... That doesn't mean I'm wrong this time though! But its why I'm trying to give him the opportunity to change my mind here..


Also interesting to me that this is the second time you've defended Cronin/Ardent against my gut instincts in this game :)

[st.cronin]

Alan, I still don't really understand what happened with you and Pass/Thomkal, but you brought it up this time, not me. If you want to explain the "subtle way" Pass defused it, I'm all ears. But I went back and read all those posts, and if there's something under the lines I'm blind to it.

Points in favor of me:

- Voted for ardent, the cunning wolf, early on both days (obviously I didn't KNOW he was a wolf, but if I was a wolf , and going to vote for a fellow wolf, wouldn't I avoid a teammate with his ability?)

- Was the first, I think, to reveal my character name - should at least convince you that I'm not Sylar

But, really, I don't mind if you vote for me Alan. My ability isn't a big deal, and hasn't yielded any information for anybody yet (as far as I can tell). If I get lynched, so be it - lord knows I get lynched often enough in these games.

[Schmidty]

Also interesting to me that this is the second time you've defended Cronin/Ardent against my gut instincts in this game :)

Oh good Lord. I knew I shouldn't have talked. Can you refresh my memory where I defended AE? I honestly don't remember, and I'm too lazy to look.

[The Jackal]

Do we only have one vote on record right now?

[Alan T]

Oh good Lord. I knew I shouldn't have talked. Can you refresh my memory where I defended AE? I honestly don't remember, and I'm too lazy to look.

It wasn't anything huge. Just an interesting thing I noticed. And yeah you are right that it seems pretty unlikely that all four are buddies. :)

Well right now I'm thinking you, Ardent, Nfg and DaddyTorgo seem like a pretty likely alignment based on how you all have been approaching me. But I'm guessing thats not quite what you had in mind? :)

Which means that there's a 0% chance that they're a behind-the-scenes alignment, because no one is that stupid.

[st.cronin]

Alan, think about how easy it would have been for me to save ardent yesterday, given the following assumptions:

- ardent = cunning wolf
- my character name is Mohinder Soresh (consider what the ASSUMED abilities of this character might be)
- I put a vote on him day 1

[DaddyTorgo]

back on finally

[SnDvls]

Alan -
if it helps you any I don't feel what you feel about St. C and I won't be voting that way unless someone comes forward with some very compelling and convincing evidence.

[RendeR]

Do we only have one vote on record right now?


VOTE THE JACKAL


If not we do now....;)


merely a random choice based on absolutely nothing in particular =)

[hoopsguy]

OK, close to wrapping up my work stuff for the night - looking forward to examining today's vote in more detail.

[Lathum]

VOTE THE JACKAL


If not we do now....;)


merely a random choice based on absolutely nothing in particular =)

I wonder who saved him and why they didn't step up?

[st.cronin]

Lathum, are you talking about who changed hoops vote, and why nobody has taken credit? I don't know that I would be willing to come right out and say I had, either.

[Lathum]

Lathum, are you talking about who changed hoops vote, and why nobody has taken credit? I don't know that I would be willing to come right out and say I had, either.

Why not.

An unchallanged claim to that puts you clearly in the CoT.

Right now I am thinking it possible a company member did it to save the Jackyl.

I realize that means they were both company so I dunno. just trying to get some discussion going

[Alan T]

Why not.

An unchallanged claim to that puts you clearly in the CoT.

Right now I am thinking it possible a company member did it to save the Jackyl.

I realize that means they were both company so I dunno. just trying to get some discussion going

I thought about that possibility for a bit.. but that doesn't make alot of sense to me considering the landscape at the time. With an influenced vote + jackyl's move there were a few options besides just ardent at the time. The way the vote build on Jackyl for no good reason, plus how things developed.. I have a hard time believeing jackyl is company right now

[path12]

I'll still maintain that we got ardent as much by his not being around as any real deduction on him. I'll take the luck, don't get me wrong, but for meta-game reasons I'm not thrilled with it.

I'd say most day 1/2 lynches of wolves would classify as luck. We get enough bad breaks to worry too much about some luck!

[st.cronin]

Why not.

An unchallenged claim to that puts you clearly in the CoT.

Right now I am thinking it possible a company member did it to save the Jackyl.

I realize that means they were both company so I dunno. just trying to get some discussion going

Spelling corrected.

Well, nobody really has any pressure on them yet. I think its unlikely that a would use the ability that way, although, I dunno, maybe. My guess is somebody just didn't want a tie. Its also possible that it was hoops himself, that he has the ability to disguise his vote.

Anyway, if it had been me that did it, I'd sit on it until there was some pressure. Keep the bad guys in the dark.

[Lathum]

Spelling corrected.



That's it.

I'm quiting

[path12]

Schedule alert here also: I definitely won't be around tomorrow so will get a vote and some more detailed thoughts in later. I hope to have some access tomorrow night and then will not be around again during the day Friday. Other than that I'll be here for either the duration or I'm killed. I'd prefer the former.

[st.cronin]

Sorry, those red underlines just annoy the heck out of me, even in a quote box.

[path12]

Sorry, those red underlines just annoy the heck out of me, even in a quote box.

That is why I hate spell check. I never turn it on.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, do you think that I (as the Cheerleader) have a vote move power?

I don't - I'm glad someone moved my vote, but it wasn't me doing anything.

[st.cronin]

I think its unlikely, but I don't discount it. I didn't realize you were the cheerleader - did Alan post that somewhere or something?

[The Jackal]

VOTE THE JACKAL


If not we do now....;)


merely a random choice based on absolutely nothing in particular =)

Ass. I did remove my vote on you, after all. :)

[st.cronin]

Dola, I mean I think its an unlikely ability no matter what your role is. It wouldn't make a lot of sense for that role, but who knows.

[The Jackal]

I don't know who changed hoops' vote, but believe me, I'm not company. I also don't want to reveal my power because it seems foolish at this stage (and I don't have any new information for us).

Just to get something going..

Vote Thomkal

[st.cronin]

Ok, found the post where hoops claimed to be Claire, I forgot that was the same character as the cheerleader.

So we have:

Hoops - Claire Bennet
st.cronin - Mohinder Soresh
SnDvls - Ando

Am I missing any?

[hoopsguy]

Those are the ones that I've seen so far. And, obviously, we have the dead people.

I can confirm also confirm that neither Cronin nor SnDvls are people I scanned as Noah Bennet (HRG). So there are two people out there that I can confirm are not HRG who are still part of the game, for what little that is worth.

[st.cronin]

That's a pretty interesting coincidence - that the two players hoops claims to have scanned, are the two players to have claimed roles. I don't know what it means.

[SnDvls]

That's a pretty interesting coincidence - that the two players hoops claims to have scanned, are the two players to have claimed roles. I don't know what it means.

I don't think that's what he said

re-read it again

[st.cronin]

Is he trying to say that he scanned two people that are not Sndvls and st.cronin? Because I think he grammar-failed. The double negative makes it ambiguous.

[SnDvls]

Is he trying to say that he scanned two people that are not Sndvls and st.cronin? Because I think he grammar-failed. The double negative makes it ambiguous.

that's how I read it yes

[st.cronin]

Well, I read it the other way, although the final clause doesn't really make sense unless you interpret it your way - so I'll let hoops clear it up.

[hoopsguy]

Right, I've claimed that two people still in the game (not dead) and who have not revealed yet (not Cronin or SnDvls) are not Noah.

If I doubted you (Cronin) or Sn then I could come back around and scan one of you to see if you are Noah Bennet. But since I have no idea of his faction in the game, I don't see a ton of value in testing your reveals when we have a ton of players left, many of whom have not revealed any role yet.

PM rights is always a mixed bag in werewolf anyway, so I'm not all that keen on this aspect of my powers. But if someone does want to come out and suggest they are Noah then we can start having some extended father/daughter chats once I put in the search order for them.

[hoopsguy]

And I'm up for better ways of stating this going forward if anyone has suggestions :)

[st.cronin]

Those are the ones that I've seen so far. And, obviously, we have the dead people.

I have not scanned either Cronin or SnDvls to see if they are HRG. So, there are two other people out there that I can confirm are not HRG who are still part of the game, for what little that is worth.

Fixed.

[hoopsguy]

I will cut/paste this version and use it for all future references to Noah/HRG scans for the remainder of the game :)

OK, vote analysis underway. Damn, there were a lot of posts today!

[hoopsguy]

Really? I would not have guessed that the Haitian would have that ability. I would have thought he would be able to read minds, or compel a vote, or something along those lines.

Cronin, are you willing to entertain discussion about your abilities as Mohinder?

[st.cronin]

Cronin, are you willing to entertain discussion about your abilities as Mohinder?

Well, you're free to ask questions. I'd like to keep what my abilities actually are a secret from the Company, but depending on what you have in mind, I'm open to a conversation.

[st.cronin]

I think I'll be around a little longer, but it just started snowing, which means my internets could be broken any minute, so:

VOTE SCHMIDTY

For not moving off of no lynch yesterday, essentially.

[hoopsguy]

Well, you're free to ask questions. I'd like to keep what my abilities actually are a secret from the Company, but depending on what you have in mind, I'm open to a conversation.

The post I quoted listed using the move vote power. Do you, as Mohinder, have the ability to know what powers are in the game?

Answer is probably "no" but it struck me as I was reading through that this is a mechanic that isn't used all that often and then it showed up the next day when my vote was moved.

[st.cronin]

No, I do not have that ability or anything like it.

[st.cronin]

Like I said, my ability does not seem to have anything to do with my character, which makes it surprising to me that so many people claim their ability does.

[Poli]

I was a cunning wolf? I've been away from the game too long. I thought I was just a sucky wolf.

:rolleyes:

[Thomkal]

Well I'm off for the night, but I likely will be voting for one of the later Jackal voters. If the wolves tried to save Ardent, then at least one of those votes has to be from a wolf.

[hoopsguy]

Day 2 vote:
318 - Clap votes Thomkal (1-0)
328 - Cronin votes Ardent (1-1)
331 - Alan votes Clap (1-1-1)
357 - NFG votes Clap (2-1-1)
397 - Ardent votes Alan T (2-1-1-1)
426 - Alan unvotes Clap, votes NFG (1-1-1-1-1)
434 - Chief votes Thomkal (2-1-1-1-1) Thom leads
443 - Schmidty votes Grey (2-1-1-1-1-1)
444 - MrW votes Olie (2-1-1-1-1-1-1)
445 - Narc votes NoLynch (2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1)
447 - Neon votes NoLynch (2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1) Thom/NL tied
452 - Ardent unvotes Alan, votes NoLynch (3-2-1-1-1-1-1)
459 - Thomkal votes Chief (3-2-1-1-1-1-1-1)
471 - Mauboy votes Neon (3-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1)
474 - Lathum votes Thomkal (3-3-1-1-1-1-1-1-1) Thom/NL tied
480 - Jackal unvotes Render, votes Thomkal (4-3-1-1-1-1-1-1) Thom leads
487 - SnDvls votes Ardent (4-3-2-1-1-1-1-1) Ardent now 3rd in votes, separating from pack of ones
488 - Schmidty unvotes Grey, votes NoLynch (4-4-2-1-1-1-1-1) Thom/NL tied
489 - Hoops votes Jackal (4-4-2-1-1-1-1-1-1)
496/498 - NFG unvotes Clap, votes Jackal (4-4-2-2-1-1-1-1-1) Thom/NL tied, AE/Jackal two back
499 - RendeR votes Neon (4-4-2-2-2-1-1-1-1) Thom/NL tied, AE/Jackal/Neon two back
511 - Path votes Neon (4-4-3-2-2-1-1-1-1) Thom/NL tied, Neon one back, AE/Jackal two back
512 - Alan unvotes NFG, votes Ardent (4-4-3-3-2-1-1) Thom/NL tied, Neon/AE one back, Jackal two back
518 - Olie votes Ardent (4-4-4-3-2-1-1) Thom/NL/Ardent tied, Neon one back, Jackal two back
520 - Thomkal unvotes Chief, votes Jackal (4-4-4-3-3-1) Thom/NL/Ardent tied, Neon/Jackal one back
528 - Torgo votes NoLynch (5-4-4-3-3-1) NL leads, Thom/Ardent tied, Neon/Jackal two back
529 - Barkeep votes Jackal (5-4-4-4-3-1) NL leads, Thom/Ardent/Jackal tied, Neon two back
530 - Torgo unvote NoLynch, votes Neon (4-4-4-4-4-1) NL/Thom/Ardent/Jackal/Neon tied
553 - Neon unvotes NoLynch, votes Jackal (5-4-4-3-1) Jackal leads, Thom/Ardent/Neon one back, NL two back
565 - MrW unvotes Olie, votes Jackal (6-4-4-3) Jackal up two on Thom/Ardent/Neon, three on NL
585 - Jackal unvotes Thomkal, votes Neon (6-5-4-3-3) Jackal up one on Neon, two on Ardent, three on Thom/NL
597 - Grey votes Jackal (7-5-4-3-3) Jackal up two on Neon, three on Ardent, four on Thom/NL
612 - Jackal unvotes Neon, votes Ardent (7-5-4-3-3) Jackal up two on Ardent, three on Neon, four on Thom/NL
618 - Neon unvotes Jackal, votes Ardent (6-6-4-3-3) Jackal/Ardent tied, up two on Neon, three on Thom/NL
DEADLINE
Vote moved by 3rd party - Hoopsguy's from Jackal to Ardent, Ardent lynched by 7-5 margin over Jackal

[st.cronin]

Ah, now everything is crystal clear.

[hoopsguy]

Impressions from reading through this.

1.) Alan was pushing for Ardent pretty frequently in this process. He comes out smelling like a rose.
2.) The person moving the vote is pretty unlikely to be a wolf. What are odds that Jackal is more important wolf than Ardent who can't be spied on, and always shows up villager?
3.) Jackal is unlikely to be a wolf for the same reason
4.) Neon is unlikely to be a wolf for the same reason

Order of votes on Ardent:
328 - Cronin (who has revealed as Mohinder)
487 - SnDvls (who has revealed as Ando and given info on use of powers)
512 - Alan T
518 - Oliegirl (who is dead and revealed as hero)
612 - Jackal
618 - Neon

[st.cronin]

The fact that hoops vote got moved makes it really hard for me to trust my analysis of that vote. Its possible that the Company wasn't worried about ardent being lynched at all, and were caught off guard by what happened.

But a straightforward analysis would point one at Greyroofoo, Mr. Wednesday, or DaddyTorgo, as I think those were the last three votes (other than Neon/Jackal self preservation moves) that DIDN'T go to ardent.

[hoopsguy]

More impressions, these more to the negative:
1.) Grey's vote on Jackal put him up two late. This clearly looks like a bad vote right now if you join me in assumption that both Neon and Jackal were good guys
2.) MrW had an earlier vote on Jackal putting him two ahead of the pack of Ardent/Thomkal/Neon. Again, not a good vote
3.) DaddyTorgo moved from NoLynch to Neon, creating a five way tie (Ardent, NoLynch, Neon, Jackal, Thomkal). Not nearly as bad a vote as the first two listed, as it put Ardent in tie for lead
4.) Barkeep put vote on Jackal, putting him ahead 5-4 (everyone else).
5.) Thomkal unvoted Chief, put his vote on Jackal. He could have put Ardent in the lead here if he moved the vote there instead of Jackal. Thomkal is the guy in the mix here that I'm most concerned with among those receiving votes today
6.) Path voted for Neon, creating a two vote separation from leaders and Ardent. As a wolf, would he have voted for Thomkal to protect Ardent?
7.) Thomkal did not make a late vote switch, for better or for worse - this has already been discussed

I'm not sure how much further back to go in terms of Day 2 votes. But the people listed here all had votes when Ardent was at some level of risk

[hoopsguy]

The fact that hoops vote got moved makes it really hard for me to trust my analysis of that vote. Its possible that the Company wasn't worried about ardent being lynched at all, and were caught off guard by what happened.

But a straightforward analysis would point one at Greyroofoo, Mr. Wednesday, or DaddyTorgo, as I think those were the last three votes (other than Neon/Jackal self preservation moves) that DIDN'T go to ardent.

Even without my vote being moved, it was going to a tie. Unless the Company understands the tie-breaker they would have liked to avoid it - particularly with the wolf who can't be caught at "night".

[hoopsguy]

If someone has information on Thomkal that they can share in terms of his faction I think it would be worth revealing to help with vote analysis. Obviously it is easy for me to ask for that ... the person who has that info clearly is the one who gets to weigh risk/reward on the decision.

If there is someone who can determine faction, I would ask them to put Thomkal in the mix for a scan next deadline. Of course, this was a deathwish in the last game I played (bad guys killed the people I wanted to see scanned), but clearly it is not if he is a Company man.

[st.cronin]

Alan has been very defensive about Thomkal's goodness, for what its worth.

[hoopsguy]

Yes, and Alan suggested that he targeted me for an action on Day 2 so if he has info on it I think he should be very clear on it.

All of the guys who are prominently trusted after today are strong candidates for a night kill - if they have information to share I think there is a good argument to be made about sharing it. There is almost certainly a bodyguard role, if not multiple roles that could potentially help them stay alive post-reveal for a period of time.

That said, having clarity on Thomkal is the priority for me in the vote analysis today. If he is a good guy then it becomes easier to pull info from the voting records.

[Greyroofoo]

Well looks like I'm getting lynched tomorrow

[hoopsguy]

Dola - if Alan has info on Thomkal from Day 1 I think he should be very clear on it. Combination of elevated trust + not wanting to see info go to the grave + need to understand Thomkal's position in the vote run-off today.

[hoopsguy]

Well looks like I'm getting lynched tomorrow

Would that be a mistake? If so, help convince us. I don't think that people have lined up with the pitchforks quite yet.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, going back and reading the post-lynch stuff it seems like I'm at the same place with vote analysis as you were earlier with Thomkal early this afternoon.

Still working my way through stuff I skimmed while at work ...

[hoopsguy]

Another semi-random note - I don't get the West Rosen/Matt Parkman connection. Did these characters even meet in the show?

I don't think there was much doubt that Matt Parkman was in the game, but the West role PM cinches it.

[st.cronin]

Does West Rosen appear in Season 1? I don't even know who that is.

[st.cronin]

Cronin, going back and reading the post-lynch stuff it seems like I'm at the same place with vote analysis as you were earlier with Thomkal early this afternoon.

Well, whatever you do, don't tell Alan that.

[The Jackal]

Would that be a mistake? If so, help convince us. I don't think that people have lined up with the pitchforks quite yet.

You made a good point with greyfoo. I'm going to seriously consider moving my vote to him, but there's time yet. It seems like there's some hesitance to go after Thomkal, or at least to pile votes on him.

[Chief Rum]

From my limited experience of werewolf I'd say that Alan is one of the best villagers I've seen, and he certainly seems to be one of the few people here actually coming up with any ideas. (he was the first one to bring up the No Lynch idea, for example, something the majority agreed with). Sure he might be a wolf but at the moment it seems to be me that what he's been contributing makes any vote on him pretty strange. Sure he could be a wolf hiding in the open and trying to misdirect us blah blah blah but I think as villagers we gain a lot more by giving him the benefit of the doubt and saying that he's a villager at this stage.

Stream of consciousness posting, so forgive me if I hit on anything already discussed.

Just want to note to Narcizo here that while I agree with his general thinking, I find Alan to be a very crafty "wolf on the open". I have seen him do it before. The trick is that he is always helpful and a conversation driver, whether he is a wolf or a villager. This makes it extremely hard to pin his role on his behavior. So I think it would be dangerous to assume he is a Hero at this point, but what I have read to this point makes me believe he is.

BTW, what the heck, people, I work two jobs, and you expect me to read over 350 posts? Sonofa... ;)

[hoopsguy]

Does West Rosen appear in Season 1? I don't even know who that is.

The guy that dates the cheerleader, pretty sure he first appears at the start of Season 2.

[st.cronin]

Gah, please no season 2 spoilers.

[Chief Rum]

As far as voting today - I have no idea what direction to go, as usually happens at this point in the game. I would vote Alan for the drama (perhaps a wolf trying to shed heat by loudly being "outraged and offended"), but I know that he would never go so far as to threaten to quit the game to gain leverage, so that pretty much makes voting for him senseless. Also, nfg22 is being quite aggressive, and I'm pretty sure a wolf wouldn't do that until later in the game, so that rules him out to me right now. After that, I'm not sure where to go.

At this point, I believe I'll go with someone quiet, as I'm not sure what else to do:


Vote Greyroofoo

nfg was aggressive last game, too, and I think it ended up getting him lynched. That said, I think he was being helpful in that game and got mislabeled a bit. He might be at risk of doing so again. I would suggest, assuming something damning hasn't come out, that we cut him some slack and see what he has to say. I always welcome active and aggressive players--we need more of them.

[hoopsguy]

Gah, please no season 2 spoilers.

Sorry, although on a scale of 1-10 I think this is on the very low end of the scale.

Go rent Season 2 :)

[Passacaglia]

Sorry, although on a scale of 1-10 I think this is on the very low end of the scale.

Go rent Season 2 :)

Why did you have to label the scale as 1-10 if you weren't going to assign it an actual number? :)

[hoopsguy]

Good point, Pass. I would rate it a 2.21 on the 1-10 scale. Small fries spoiler.

[st.cronin]

Sorry, although on a scale of 1-10 I think this is on the very low end of the scale.

Go rent Season 2 :)

Yeah that one wasn't bad, I'm just worried about where the talk is going to go.

Season 2 isn't available (legally) yet.

[Chief Rum]

Vote Ardent

it just concerns me he says he has no night power and doesn't sit well with me.

Oh yeah, read this last night from ardent and wanted to respond then but had to go to bed.

I think what AE was getting it is that some powers are ones you actively perform, as in "scan Chief Rum" or "guard ardent", etc. These are active powers.

AE was saying he has a "passive" power, which I equate to one that is always there and working, like invisibility or mind block or something like that. So it's not something you need to activate.

In particular I felt I understood what AE was driving at because I have a power that could be described that way.

[Chief Rum]

Also, I was really hoping yesterday that Chief Rum or one of the late-night guys was going to have some meaningful information for us to act on - playing blind for two days in a row kinda sucks.

Yeah, sorry. It's hard playing catch up late in games like this. I am hoping to have more tonight. I do know a couple more things than I did last night, but I am still getting a read on things (plus, I am still about 300 posts behind everyone).

[hoopsguy]

Chief, I'm heading out as you are catching up. So I'll be interested in reading along tomorrow AM.

[Chief Rum]

I apologized already. I will refrain from name calling.

Oh, BTW, I in no way wish to be perceived as condoning namecalling by saying we give nfg some slack. Obviously, we all know there is a line, and I am glad that nfg has found this as well, so he will know in the future. But I am saying that I do think he has gotten a bad rap fast in games so far, and that is hiding from some people that he actually has made some contributions, IMO, and I would like to hear more, instead of shutting him out just because he isn't quite as PC as others.

And, I am very glad Alan is sticking in the game. WW is always better when Alan is around.

Is this where I put in a vote for Alan? :)

[Chief Rum]

Another question, GRF will be crucial. I am not saying he is a wolf at all but whatever he votes will most likely decide things.

Quoting to put it at the end of my reading.

[Chief Rum]

it did. Just looking at when the votes came it seems like a movement to save thomkal and possibly ardent

I'm always suspicious that runs like these are over-interpreted. Fact is, no wolves with decent experience would make such an obvious unless they felt they could hide it. And there's no hiding those runs. Nothing clears the people participating in those runs from possibly being Company, but I doubt greatly that either run was a primarily Company move. There are likely individual wolves here and there, but nothing that would link one with another.

Also, if we assume there was a Company move in those runs, don't we then have to assume the ones with votes already (Thomkal? Who else) were wolves themselves? After all, why would the Company take such a risk unless they were attempting to save one of their own? And with multiple options, why not vote up one of the other options with four votes instead of starting fresh runs on NC or AE?

No, nothing I have seen so far makes sense for a Company run to be on NC or AE.

[Neon_Chaos]

VOTE THE JACKAL


If not we do now....;)


merely a random choice based on absolutely nothing in particular =)

Gut feeling that you're a wolf. I think you're lying about not knowing that AE already had two votes.

Vote Render

[Neon_Chaos]

Also, if we assume there was a Company move in those runs, don't we then have to assume the ones with votes already (Thomkal? Who else) were wolves themselves? After all, why would the Company take such a risk unless they were attempting to save one of their own? And with multiple options, why not vote up one of the other options with four votes instead of starting fresh runs on NC or AE?

No, nothing I have seen so far makes sense for a Company run to be on NC or AE.

Exactly the point. AE already had two votes on him, but for some reason, these guys started piling on me and The Jackal. As if they didn't want an ardent-Thomkal showdown on the voting.

Personally, I'd like to see a Thomkal / render lynch race tonight, but that's just me.

[Chief Rum]

i guess ill say why i thought that was a strange reveal in case i die -

1, you didnt find out anything about mau, but he could still be a wolf and just not have done anything last night, so that piece of information isn't all that useful

2, you now have a bullseye on your back without having given us real info

I hope something else has come of SnDvl's reveal, because as of right now, this is pretty much my read on this odd situation.

[path12]

Thanks for putting that together, hoops. Very helpful. My thoughts:

1) The only Ardent vote I think could have been a wolf not able to switch is cronin's.
2) DT's and Barkeep's votes are interesting. In two votes it went from a 3 way tie to a 5 way tie (well, four and no lynch). That might be a careful route to try and save a fellow wolf, put more candidates at the top. DT in particular is the one that seems most wolfish to me, I feel that way about him a lot though. But I can totally see Barkeep coming up with an idea like putting more people in the mix and hope percentages break for you, and frankly I thought Lathum's callout of BK seeming to know a lot about Sylar was a pretty good one.

People I feel better about: SnDvls, Alan T, Neon Chaos, The Jackal
People I feel less good about: DaddyTorgo, Barkeep49, Greyroofoo, Mr. Wednesday, st.cronin.

VOTE BARKEEP49

Now off to beautiful Milwaukee. Talk to you tomorrow night. Don't lynch me.

[Chief Rum]

The day brings action all over the place. First no one agrees, then this band of supernatural beings sets itself onto a few people. At the last minute, it is tied. Then, special orders are carried out and things are changed:

Ardent (7): St. Cronin (328), SnDvls (487), Alan T (512), Oliegirl (518), Jackal (612), Neon Chaos (618), hoopsguy (N/A)

Jackal (5): nfg22 (498), Thomkal (520), Barkeep (529), Mr. Wednesday (565), Greyroofoo (597)

Neon Chaos (4): mauboy1 (471), RendeR (499), path12 (511), Daddy Torgo (530)

Thomkal (3): claphamsa (318), Chief Rum (434), Lathum (474)

No Lynch (3): Narcizo (445), Ardent (452), Schmidty (488)

Ardent Enthusiast must die today. The group focuses all of their powers upon him and he literally explodes. Falling from the debris you notice an envelope. In it contains a paycheck...from The Company.

Ardent Enthusiast was working for The Company!

Then suddenly all of the bloody mish-mash of what was Ardent Enthusiast just disappears. In death, he went invisible.



I will process night actions now and post results shortly.


Wow, surprised by this. I think the Company got caught with their pants down. I wouldn't think with so many options that they would let this happen.

I would say this pretty much clears NC. Not only was he targeted along with AE (seems unlikely both are wolves), but he also got AE in the tie. And now hoops with the special orders? A special sort of duke?

If it was anyone but hoops, I would be inclined toward instant innocence. Problem is, hoops is crafty enough as a potential Sylar to make a move like this for gaining trust. But as far as I know, Sylar doesn't know anymore who the wolves are than we do, so why would hoops as Sylar make this move, which (if AE came up as a Hero), would paint a huge target on hoops?

No, until I hear Sylar knows who is in Company, I have to guess hoops is in the clear, too. That's a nice COT to start (hoops, NC). I might even include The Jackal, too, as I don't think a Company man would vote another Company man into trouble to save his own ass (especially with other options who, I would guess, are not wolves). That doesn't mean he isn't Sylar, though, and it was clearly a self-preservation vote.

[Chief Rum]

So did hoops have the tiebreak then?

Perhaps hoops clears this up, but my read on that was that hoops has the special power that enabled today's lynch. But, as of this point in my reading, I could see the possibility of his vote being moved by someone else. If that's the case, then hoops is back out of the COT. Since I would prefer him to be in the COT, I hope this is not true.

[Chief Rum]

That was the last we heard from BK, now it is the middle of the day in all fairness.

I'll admit, I didn't focus on this discussion between you and BK, but Ido remember my feeling that what he said made sense, and I know I saw a post quoted from jeheiz around about the same time that seemed to say what Barkeep said it said. So while this tells me nothing about BK's allegiance, in and of itself I don't right now believe this particular tree you're barking up bears any fruit.

[Chief Rum]

this is what JeHeinze said, which IMO is pretty vague

Ah, there you go, you posted it yourself. Not sure it leads to what BK said, but not sure it doesn't either.

[Chief Rum]

I think it is different depending on whom does the kill for the company. The first night the bullet still seems to lead me to think that HRG is company in this game and he did the kill..

Stiff as a board, I'm trying to play through in my mind who that could be. Doesn't sound like Sylar though. I'm wondering if its Bob's ability to transmutate that killed Olie.

Hopefully olie's death brings up this discussion, because isn't she known as a blonde woman? If so, could SnDvls have been following her killer?

Or am I way, way behind on this?

And would SnDvls see the kill? Or could this person's power include the ability to mask it from the view of others (or by its nature, it not obvious, such as some mind attack sorta thing)?

[Chief Rum]

Thomkal's only message before the lynch:



Jackal then moved his vote.

Then I moved my vote.

Then deadline...

And then, this message from Thomkal at 1:01, which means he's probably been paying attention to the thread.



There were enough votes. But he didn't move his, even though he was right there. And then, the quick apology? It screams wolf to me.

But why does he need to vote? He wasn't the one in danger. Not sure I see why this screams wolf. Doesn't scream villager either, but I'm not nearly ready to make the leap you are here.

[Chief Rum]

Doing a lot of catching up over a short lunch hour (haven't read my PM yet) but I didn't have anything to do with moving the vote. Great job to whoever did move the vote.

I've got comments on AE, but I want to finish reading the 100 or so posts after Alan's quoted one above first.

Ah, okay, so this confirms it. hoops is back out of the COT. Interesting--why was hoops' vote selected by whomever had this power?

[Chief Rum]

I think AE blew it when he said he didn't have a night action... to me that just really stuck out given the plain-ish role I have in this game.

While from a hindsight perspective, this does look more alarming, I stick with what I said before about my power. I, too, don't have a night "action" per say, one which I can activate or specifically target. But I do have a passive power that is always active regardless of what I do.

[Chief Rum]

oops
Just forgot...you are in the CoT

SnDvls (to this point in my reading) is not in the COT yet. I haven't seen anything to vouch what he says (although nothing to deny it either).

[Chief Rum]

dola - said it by saying he followed hoops "the blonde women"

Ahh...blonde woman in the show, not in real life (although I don't actually recall if olie has blonde hair). Okay, so SnDvls didn't follow olie's killer. Oh well, would have been so much easier. :)

[Chief Rum]

I guess the only thing I can think of right now is that Parkman's father is in the game and is a company member and gave me a hallucination or nightmare... Where my action went through, but I don't remember it..

Otherwise, how would Sndvls have known my action was put in for Hoops who later revealed as a blonde cheerleader, matching up with Sndvls story?

Not a regular Heroes viewer--is there a character who can wipe or adjust memories?

[nfg22]

Hey CR...I know something that you do!!!! Also I will be revealing something pretty big and when I do, I will need your backing.

[nfg22]

I still havent decided whether to do it today or tommorow...

[nfg22]

Also I know this looks suspicious but I havent decided to release this yet and I want to know ill have backing...

[Chief Rum]

Also I know this looks suspicious but I havent decided to release this yet and I want to know ill have backing...

Well, not sure what you want to reveal, but I have to admit a little uneasiness that you have linked yourself to me without knowing exactly what you want to reveal. I will admit there is a link, but I haven't yet decided what to make of it yet. Others may read into that what they may, although I hope they would give me a chance to explain before lynching me. To me knowledge, this link is just a power link (like SnDvls following Alan watching hoops).

Keep in mind, nfg, that when I am caught up, I will post my vote and be gone until tomorrow night, after deadline, so if you have something you think could be risky to wait until tomorrow night (and after either of us could possibly die), you better say it now while I can respond.

[nfg22]

ok...Ill throw it out there...

Basically I am the Parkman dad. I never watched the show, I just wikipediad it. As my power I got to pick two peeps to PM. I picked Grey and Oliegirl. Randomly based on the numbers for which they signed up.

It just happens Oliegirl was connected to CR. I knew this because Olie told me.

Now it gets interesting. GRF. He claims to me to have the power to kill one person that votes for him. This to me sounds very much like the Sylar. He also is acting quite suspicious in PM.

There now I am clean and am hiding nothing. I will answer any and all questions...

[Mr. Wednesday]

Why not.

An unchallanged claim to that puts you clearly in the CoT.

Right now I am thinking it possible a company member did it to save the Jackyl.

I realize that means they were both company so I dunno. just trying to get some discussion going

If they were both company, then The Jackal would have to have a really nice ability to be worth saving over the cunning wolf. The cunning wolf just doesn't seem like someone that would reasonably be a choice for a sacrifice.

[Chief Rum]

Why not.

An unchallanged claim to that puts you clearly in the CoT.

Right now I am thinking it possible a company member did it to save the Jackyl.

I realize that means they were both company so I dunno. just trying to get some discussion going

My guess? A limited duke ability that isn't just a one night thing. A duke who has shot his wad, of course, would just come out. But someone who can nightly (every night or at least again at some point) change a vote might want to keep[ quiet a bit longer.

[Chief Rum]

ok...Ill throw it out there...

Basically I am the Parkman dad. I never watched the show, I just wikipediad it. As my power I got to pick two peeps to PM. I picked Grey and Oliegirl. Randomly based on the numbers for which they signed up.

It just happens Oliegirl was connected to CR. I knew this because Olie told me.

Now it gets interesting. GRF. He claims to me to have the power to kill one person that votes for him. This to me sounds very much like the Sylar. He also is acting quite suspicious in PM.

There now I am clean and am hiding nothing. I will answer any and all questions...

nfg, do you know who I am?

[nfg22]

I still havent decided whether to do it today or tommorow...

nfg, do you know who I am?

I dont watch the show but I assume you are the son parkman and I am the dad. I think they were against eachother in the show...is that what your getting at?

[nfg22]

I dont know why the top quote is there...

[Mr. Wednesday]

Not a regular Heroes viewer--is there a character who can wipe or adjust memories?
Yes, and he was the first night-kill.

[The Jackal]

I'm waiting to hear from CR about what nfg said, but honestly, that was enough to make me switch my vote at this point.

Unvote Thomkal

Vote GFR

[Chief Rum]

Yes, and Alan suggested that he targeted me for an action on Day 2 so if he has info on it I think he should be very clear on it.

All of the guys who are prominently trusted after today are strong candidates for a night kill - if they have information to share I think there is a good argument to be made about sharing it. There is almost certainly a bodyguard role, if not multiple roles that could potentially help them stay alive post-reveal for a period of time.

That said, having clarity on Thomkal is the priority for me in the vote analysis today. If he is a good guy then it becomes easier to pull info from the voting records.

This is a good point. Alan has outed his power. So shouldn't he also reveal his character and whom he followed on Night One? Or is there a reason he would still need to keep this secret?

[Chief Rum]

I dont watch the show but I assume you are the son parkman and I am the dad. I think they were against eachother in the show...is that what your getting at?

So olie didn't tell you my name?

[nfg22]

no...

[nfg22]

ummm...im confused..what connection do we have then?

[The Jackal]

This giving you reason to doubt him, CR? Or are you checking whether or not you should reveal your name?

[The Jackal]

dola.. why am i awake

[nfg22]

well Oliegirl said she could PM CR. I dont see what else that would mean...

[Chief Rum]

Yes, and he was the first night-kill.

Hmm, well, is there someone else who might be able to do this? I mean, Alan could be lying, but if he's bad, SnDvls would have to bad, too, I would think, and that's a risky play for wolves. And if Alan is good, the only reason I would think he would lie about a Viagra ad (what his scan was) woul dbe if he were protecting hoops. And hoops has already revealed, so what's to protect?

Ergo, IMO, Alan is not lying about his PM and is unlikely to be Company (without further evidence suggesting otherwise), so that means someone did block his scan or whatever he calls the power he has. Maybe it's not a memory wipe, but clearly it's a power that can interfere with the kind of power he has. Are there other characters who might have a power like that?

[The Jackal]

well Oliegirl said she could PM CR. I dont see what else that would mean...

I understand what you're saying, I'm just curious why CR wants to know if she told you his name. Either means he has something to hide or he's just making sure his name isn't getting out there because it could give away his power.

[nfg22]

Cheif?

[Schmidty]

I think I'll be around a little longer, but it just started snowing, which means my internets could be broken any minute, so:

VOTE SCHMIDTY

For not moving off of no lynch yesterday, essentially.

Vote st.cronin


For voting Schmidty, because Schmidty was fucking sleeping because he works 3rds and has to sleep some time.

[Chief Rum]

ummm...im confused..what connection do we have then?

We have no connection from the moderator that I am aware of. I had a connection with oliegirl, and I am privy to what she told me, and, yes, she told me about you. So we have an indirect connection through her.

But, yes, there is no reason to hide it anymore, as people will eventually make the connection from what you say about oliegirl and me, and what jeheinz posted about oliegirl's opening PM.

Yes, I am Matt Parkman and your son. But so it's clear to everyone, I don't have PM rights with nfg, and only know about him through oliegirl (a source of information now gone, of course). I have the ability to communicate with one other person freely (not of my choosing). After oliegirl was killed, I was given a new connection. I don't think I need to divulge who that is at this time, but I am certain that person can vouch for this if needed.

I can also confirm some of what nfg said. oliegirl told me he could link with two people, and that his other link was GRF, as he said.

But she also said he was pressing her for her "two links" like it was something everyone should have, and that that concerned her. She also did not say he said anything about suspicions about GRF (although there's no reason right now to think he would have told her anything).

[The Jackal]

Vote st.cronin


For voting Schmidty, because Schmidty was fucking sleeping because he works 3rds and has to sleep some time.

On that note, I'm going to bed. I'll catch up before the deadline.

[Chief Rum]

Long winded shortened up--I back what I can of nfg's story, without being able to confirm GRF's suspiciousness (as I have nothing on which to confirm that). He did have a connection with oliegirl. She did have a connection with me. She said he also was connected with GRF. And, by supposition, I am Matt Parkman.

[Chief Rum]

Cheif?

Sorry, you may not be aware, but I have an, umm, "history" of long posts. :)

[Schmidty]

By the way, I might change my vote if it matters. And I'm not actually mad, although it does get frustrating that I essencially can't post during the busy times like everyone else, since I need to sleep. It's not your guys faults, but after a while, it gets irritating.

[Chief Rum]

This giving you reason to doubt him, CR? Or are you checking whether or not you should reveal your name?

I was aiming for the latter, Jackal, as I was uncertain of the repercussions for revealing who I was at this time. His story matches what I got from oliegirl.

[Schmidty]

Man, the thread is actually pretty busy right now, unlike most nights when I'm at work.

[nfg22]

We have no connection from the moderator that I am aware of. I had a connection with oliegirl, and I am privy to what she told me, and, yes, she told me about you. So we have an indirect connection through her.

But, yes, there is no reason to hide it anymore, as people will eventually make the connection from what you say about oliegirl and me, and what jeheinz posted about oliegirl's opening PM.

Yes, I am Matt Parkman and your son. But so it's clear to everyone, I don't have PM rights with nfg, and only know about him through oliegirl (a source of information now gone, of course). I have the ability to communicate with one other person freely (not of my choosing). After oliegirl was killed, I was given a new connection. I don't think I need to divulge who that is at this time, but I am certain that person can vouch for this if needed.

I can also confirm some of what nfg said. oliegirl told me he could link with two people, and that his other link was GRF, as he said.

But she also said he was pressing her for her "two links" like it was something everyone should have, and that that concerned her. She also did not say he said anything about suspicions about GRF (although there's no reason right now to think he would have told her anything).

To clear up the two questions here...

First as of why I pressured Oliegirl. She lied to me. She said her only ability was to link with me and one other person. I wanted to know how chose the same person that chose me with the same power. I thought she was lying, and she was. Although she was not lying in a bad way, she just told me a different power than she did have.

Second, I did not share my suspicions about GRF with her as I caught her lying and was scared of her.


I am tired, it is late, forgive me if I dont make sense. I will clarify if asked...

[Schmidty]

Dola. I actually feel good about my vote, since I have discounted AlanT from suspicion, and st. cronin was getting pretty defensive when AlanT pointed a finger at him. Of course, I would have been defensive as well, but still.

[Neon_Chaos]

Thank god for activity.

We should at least have a small list of suspects that we are in agreement about putting on the block today.

[Chief Rum]

I understand what you're saying, I'm just curious why CR wants to know if she told you his name. Either means he has something to hide or he's just making sure his name isn't getting out there because it could give away his power.

Yeah, don't want to be repetitive, as you responded to this while I was cross-posting, but obviously nfg's reveal has forced me to reveal sooner than I wanted to. I don't tend to be forthcoming unless I think the advantages for the village far outweigh the potential advantages for the wolves, so I was being extremely careful here.

[Chief Rum]

To clear up the two questions here...

First as of why I pressured Oliegirl. She lied to me. She said her only ability was to link with me and one other person. I wanted to know how chose the same person that chose me with the same power. I thought she was lying, and she was. Although she was not lying in a bad way, she just told me a different power than she did have.

Second, I did not share my suspicions about GRF with her as I caught her lying and was scared of her.


I am tired, it is late, forgive me if I dont make sense. I will clarify if asked...

No, that's okay. She didn't come out right away about her second power either with me. I had to ask her about the ability for flight, since I knew who she was and knew from earlier in this thread what sort of power that character should I have. I suspect she was also being ultra careful, as jeheinz has already suggested that PM rights alone do not guarantee we are on the same side (although in mine and olie's case, that is certainly true).

Once asked, she did explain her flight power to me, which pretty much matches what jeheinz said.

I also know what she did on Night One, and what she intended to do on Night Two with that power. But I'm going to keep that to myself for now (in case it can be used down the road).

[Chief Rum]

Hero-philiacs out there, a question. Aren't the Parkmans on opposite sides? I'm not trying to trump up a case against nfg, as everything he has said that was repeated to me by oliegirl is true, but I suspect someone will bring that up, and I didn't want to act like I was hiding from it.

nfg, if the Parkmans are on opposite sides in the show, we may have to consider that the rest of the village will assume you and I are on opposite teams, and there could be repercussions for that (lynching one of us can, by that theory, net a wolf and add a person to the COT).

[Mr. Wednesday]

Given Heinz's statement about sides in the game not being determined by sides in the series, I will not be assuming that CR and nfg are on opposite sides.

[Chief Rum]

I dont watch the show but I assume you are the son parkman and I am the dad. I think they were against eachother in the show...is that what your getting at?

Ah you got this, too. Not sure what to make of that. More to the point, not sure what everyone else will make of that. And I will be voting soon and gone for the night until after deadline.

Well, I guess it will be interesting reading when I get back.

[nfg22]

Well I hope that doesnt shroud GRF being Sylar.

[nfg22]

I think this should spark a ton of convo and I think it will at least weed out some peeps..Also who votes and gets killed? Thats the hard part.

[Chief Rum]

nfg, I am going to put some faith in you now, as you have offered up things I can directly confirm. While I can't confirm the GRF suspiciousness, you haven't lied to my knowledge, so I will vote on your suspicions, as opposed to the voting suppositions being tossed out by hoops and others (which also have merit, but not something I can definitely confirm myself).

I would like to hear from GRF, but I have to go to bed, so I don't have the choice of waiting.

VOTE GREYROOFOO

[Mr. Wednesday]

I want to get a provisional vote in before I go to bed, because I'm not completely certain I'll get on again before the deadline. I don't object to the GRF vote, but I don't like an early runaway.

I'm going to try going in a different direction, and put a vote on someone who's been completely below the radar and was in on someone other than ardent.

VOTE mauboy1

[Narcizo]

First point is - what's going on with all these reveals. It seems pretty dangerous to me if all the roles with limited powers come out and reveal. Nice for them as it probably means they won't get targeted but it's kind of narrowing the field for both the Company and Sylar in hitting more powerful roles. It also strikes me that it's putting pressure on for some sort of mass reveal. We've already had a lot of names and powers given up. (I'll got through and list it all up when I get a moment). Unless we're going to push for a mass reveal can people be a bit more circumspect with their powers unless there's a clear gain from revealing?

Secondly, there's a lot of talk about CoTs here - how Neon is in everyone's now because of his move to Ardent, etc etc. That's well and good but I think there's a danger that people might lose sight of the fact that there really ought to be two CoTs. A Company CoT and a Sylar CoT. So Neon is firmly in my Company CoT while pretty much everyone who has revealed a name up to this stage is in the Sylar CoT. However you should probably think about the fact that, as it stands, revealing your name could well put you at risk from Sylar, as he will be wanting to cut down on the Sylar CoT.

[Chief Rum]

First point is - what's going on with all these reveals. It seems pretty dangerous to me if all the roles with limited powers come out and reveal. Nice for them as it probably means they won't get targeted but it's kind of narrowing the field for both the Company and Sylar in hitting more powerful roles. It also strikes me that it's putting pressure on for some sort of mass reveal. We've already had a lot of names and powers given up. (I'll got through and list it all up when I get a moment). Unless we're going to push for a mass reveal can people be a bit more circumspect with their powers unless there's a clear gain from revealing?

Secondly, there's a lot of talk about CoTs here - how Neon is in everyone's now because of his move to Ardent, etc etc. That's well and good but I think there's a danger that people might lose sight of the fact that there really ought to be two CoTs. A Company CoT and a Sylar CoT. So Neon is firmly in my Company CoT while pretty much everyone who has revealed a name up to this stage is in the Sylar CoT. However you should probably think about the fact that, as it stands, revealing your name could well put you at risk from Sylar, as he will be wanting to cut down on the Sylar CoT.

Yeah, I was not a willing revealer. But better to come out with it, then have everyone put two and two together and wonder why I am keeping it a secret.

[Narcizo]

I'm getting the same reading as Alan off of St Cronin. Now this might be because the two times I've been a villager in a game with him, he's been a wolf but the vibe he's giving off have been exactly as I remember him being in those games. I buy the idea that St Cronin put an early "meaningless" vote on Ardent and then was trapped into keeping it there. I think he did seem to be trying to get pressure on to move the vote off of Ardent - when there was a discussion about 3 candidates going to a No Lynch vote he asked Alan if he was in favour of a No Lynch which really could be interpreted as trying to get the 3 other candidates to move to a No Lynch with Alan's backing. Meanwhile I still feel like there was attempts at future hay-making from the whole situation with Alan. Pushing for a lynch of Alan and then getting the blame on Thomkal is exactly the same tactic that he tried in Big City - pushing for a Blade lynch while setting up Hoops as the fall guy when Blade turned up good. In this he would be working with Ardent, who had a vote on Alan, but covering himself from any connection down the line by having his own vote on Ardent.

He has an argument that he could have saved Ardent by claiming to have scanned him and finding him good. Well, except he'd already tied his hands by categorically stating that he didn't have a seer power earlier and there was no way that he'd be able to explain why he voted for Ardent had he scanned him the day before. So that doesn't really stand up.

I'm not really sure we have much more on anyone else at the moment so I'm leaning heavily to voting st cronin at the moment. I'm going to go back and read through things again though, and put together a list of names and powers claimed.

[Narcizo]

I find everything odd...Especially the 4 no lynches. What happens when tommorow we have these same arguments again. The wolves and Sylar will be a few steps ahead and we will be in the same place.

I think anybody on No Lynch needs to move their vote, this is absurd.

I would be suspicious of all no lynchers but such a mass move by the company wouldnt seem to be wise...Then again I am new and inexperienced.

Just to cover this. At the time I made my first No Lynch vote my reasoning was, I believe, sound. Everyone had powers a lot of them potentially information providing. Judging by the number of reveals that's gone on today then I firmly don't believe that we would be in the same boat as day two had we got a no lynch vote.

I'm still confused how people who were all in favour of a No Lynch on day one can suddenly become so vehemently against it the next day. I was in briefly yesterday before this happened but the 1PM deadline is no good to me because 11-1 is my time with my children before they go to bed. I'd like to think that once it became clear No Lynch was not a viable option at the time I would have switched to a lynch vote - and vote would have been on Ardent as he was the only one I found remotedly suspicious, while the run on Thomkal and, particularly, Jackal were completely baseless, outside of a "we need someone to vote against" day one mindset.

I think it's odd that hoops has been pushing on Jackal two days in a row, when it was clear that most of the day one votes on Jackal was as an alternative to a No Lynch, not as anything to do with him.

[Narcizo]

I'd like to think that once it became clear No Lynch was not a viable option at the time I would have switched to a lynch vote - and vote would have been on Ardent as he was the only one I found remotedly suspicious, while the run on Thomkal and, particularly, Jackal were completely baseless, outside of a "we need someone to vote against" day one mindset.


Of course, I would say that now. :)

[Narcizo]

Good call. Did you find it as odd as I did that Ardent's fellow company members let him get in a tie?

To some extent but right until the last couple of minutes he looked safe with two candidates ahead of him. It was only the very late shift of Jackal and Neon that got him in a 6:6 tie with Jackal and then (presumably) someone with the persuasion power switching him to get the Ardent lynch. It could have been hard to stave off.

[Schmidty]

Anyone have a vote count?

[Narcizo]

I'm going through and reading carefully now for my list of reveals and ..


Now it gets interesting. GRF. He claims to me to have the power to kill one person that votes for him. This to me sounds very much like the Sylar. He also is acting quite suspicious in PM.


Seriously - what? Not only do you reveal your own role and power, and back CR into a corner so he has to reveal but you reveal yet someone else's in the bargain?

This is a bit fuzzy at the moment as I don't know if you've got all the info PMed to you. Is this a vicious role (ie he has to have been lynched for this power to work) or can he use it any time. If it's a vicious role then it would be absolutely useless to Sylar as he is a one man faction. Killing someone once he's dead is pointless. If it's not then I still have a hard time seeing Sylar only having the chance to kill one person all game. And I'm fairly sure that if he were Sylar he wouldn't tell you the truth about his power. Why on earth would he? To be honest I'm surprised he told you anything at all but if this does anything then it makes me more willing to cut him a bit more slack.

[Narcizo]

Anyone have a vote count?

Still doing my role/power list - but I'm off to lunch now.

[hoopsguy]

Narc, you have a good point on the CoT in terms of Company vs Sylar. However, with Sylar as a one-man faction anytime I reference a CoT it is in regards to "not Company". We'll have to figure out Sylar at some point - hopefully with some kind of direct scans, the Company fingering him, or dumb luck.

Speaking on my reveal, I wanted to put myself in a position of disclosing information because I'm more worried about a lynch than Sylar/Company. If you follow the show, it shouldn't be all that hard to put two and two together.

Grey is an interesting target because he did fall in the list with "bad votes". However, that is from a Company perspective. If he is Sylar, and I don't necessarily make that connection with the power revealed (sounds more like another character, actually) then he wouldn't be trying to save Ardent because odds are high he has no idea who is part of the Company.

[hoopsguy]

In terms of reveals, here are the people I have in my notes. Am I missing anyone?


Cronin - Mohinder
SnDvls - Ando
NFG - Dad Parkman
Chief - Son Parkman
Hoops - Claire Bennet

[hoopsguy]

NFG's info on Oliegirl fits nicely with Chief as Son Parkman. But if both Dad/Son have PM powers, that doesn't jive with Alan's getting random information with his power. And I'm not sure who else is out there (besides the dead Haitian) who should have the ability to send Alan bad info. So I'm scratching my head a little on this point.

[claphamsa]

wow, am I confused!

[Narcizo]

NFG's info on Oliegirl fits nicely with Chief as Son Parkman. But if both Dad/Son have PM powers, that doesn't jive with Alan's getting random information with his power. And I'm not sure who else is out there (besides the dead Haitian) who should have the ability to send Alan bad info. So I'm scratching my head a little on this point.

One of the women in the show (Molly?) has the ability to create illusions doesn't she. Sounds rather like her to me. Although, admittedly, the PM thing seems a bit odd.

[Thomkal]

wow that was quite the late night revelations. :) It now puts a new light on Ollegirl's death. I couldn't figure out any particular reason she would be killed based on what happened in the game. Based on what nfg is telling us, he knows what her first night's action was and what she planned to do on her second action. This information could lead us to her killer. And a question for you Nfg, did you tell Grey that you were in contact with Ollegirl?

I find it suspect that the Parkman's are on the same side. It's likely their powers are either the same or very close to each other, and I just think it makes more sense to be on opposite sides. But CR and Nfg are sounding "villagery" to me right now, so perhaps I'm wrong there. I'm hoping someone will scan/spy on them to see if there's anything to go with there.

[Narcizo]

1. Claphamsa
2. hoopsguy - Claire Bennett (717)
3. The Jackal - Doesn't know if Match (401), not much power (580)
4. nfg22 - Maury Parkman (875)
5. RendeR - power is worthless (113)
6. Thomkal (fka Pass) -
7. Lathum - Match (85)
8. path12 - Match (497), Company character ? (727)
9. Greyroofoo - Vicious Role (via nfg 875)
10. St. Cronin - Mohinder Suresh (501)
11. NTNDeacon - The Haitian (Dead)
12. SnDvls - Ando Masashi (630)
13. DaddyTorgo - partial Match (266)
14. Mauboy1
15. Schmidty
16. Neon Chaos
17. Chief Rum - Matt Parkman (894)
18. Narcizo
19. ardent enthusiast - Claude Raines (Dead)
20. Barkeep49 - No Match (123)
21. Mr. Wednesday
22. oliegirl - West Rosen (Dead)
23. Alan T - Some sort of spy/scan ability (718)

Possible Characters

Claire Bennet - ? - Hoopsguy, regeneration/potential to converse with Noah Bennett
Monica Dawson
DL Hawkins
Maya Herrera
Issac Mendez
Adam Monroe
Hiro Nakamura
Matt Parkman - ? - Chief Rum, PM rights with one person
Nathan Petrelli
Peter Petrelli
Sylar
Niki Sanders
Claude Rains - Company - ardent enthusiast, can't be spied or scanned - Lynched Day Two
The Haitian - Hero - NTN Deacon, negates someone's powers - Bullet to Brain Night One
Alejandro Herrera
Eden McCain
Maury Parkman - ? - nfg22, PM rights with Oliegirl & Greyroofoo
West Rosen - Hero - Oliegirl, PM rights with Matt Parkman/Fly - Dead Night Two
Ted Sprague
Molly Walker
Ando Masahashi - ? - SnDvls, spy
Elle Bishop
Micah Sanders
Noah Bennet - In Game
Bob Bishop
Lyle Bennet
Daniel Linderman
Simone Deveaux
Mohinder Suresh - ? - st. cronin, ?
Angela Petrelli
Hana Gitelman

[hoopsguy]

One of the women in the show (Molly?) has the ability to create illusions doesn't she. Sounds rather like her to me. Although, admittedly, the PM thing seems a bit odd.

Molly is the "tracking system" - she locates people.

Candace is the person who has the illusions power but isn't on the character list in Post #3.

[Narcizo]

Am I the only one to think that Lathum seems to have a bee in his bonnet about Sylar, to a much greater extent than everyone else. Fair enough the phrasing about Sylar being given a name is pretty vague (as I myself thought) but I thought that consensus was that Sylar was not given a fake name. Lathum also said that he believed Sylar would be in favour of a No Lynch vote on day one (251), which, in my opinion, is the exact opposite of what Sylar would want. With Sylar's victory conditions I would have thought that he was all for as much killing as possible.

Incidentally I think it's possible that the killing yesterday was by Sylar. It's possible that the details of the killing aren't being released. I heard somebody hypothesing based on the phrase "dead as a board" but really, I just take that as an expression to mean that West was dead. Not that he had been "stiffened" or something (fnarr, fnarr, I said "stiffened"). As we only heard about the death on the news it's possible the police are covering that facts up on the killing.

[Alan T]

Just caught up on all of the late night discussion.. My thoughts in no particular order..


NFG revealing as Parkman's dad makes complete sense to me.. and part of me is thinking he had an additional power beyond the PM ability.. and that he was who blocked me last night. If NFG is good or company, I could see me being his choice for blocking last night after the events last night between him and I. if he is good, he would have possibly blocked me for whatever reasons.. or if he was company he could have blocked me for me being onto Ardent possibly meaning I really had gotten more information from night 1 than I was letting on to (Which isn't the case).

The thing about Parkman's dad is coming in to the game, that was one of the roles that I felt would be company. I'm not going to jump at that thought just yet because Jeheinz made it very clear that people's sides might not necessarily match up with the show here so I want to be cautious in jumping at that conclusion. I definitly think nfg's reveal matches well for me in what I know in this universe, as I had him somewhere on my distrust list and my power was blocked by someone like parkman's dad.

Now about the other topics from the night.. someonen asked about Hoops vote being moved and possibly linked it to the parkmans.. I don't think thats who did it. Like I said yesterday, I think the girl with persuasion abilities is in the game, and thats who did it. I also think that person when they do eventually reveal should be trusted as not company.. and I also assume they can use that power more than once, so uhh yeah don't reveal.

[Thomkal]

I wanted to go back to the vote and my actions in it again because I don't think I should be much of a suspect right now. If I was a wolf, I was highly suspected already by many. Why then would I say that I would move my vote to Ardent, and put another of my kind in danger? Especially with his "cunning wolf" abilities? I'm a pretty bad wolf if I let Ardent get lynched like that.

I could have moved to No Lynch like Neon originally asked me to do in an attempt to save him and jackal and myself from the lynch. As a wolf I should have jumped all over that offer. But I said I would not do a no lynch even if it put myself in jeopardy of being voted out. As a wolf I would not have left my vote on Jackal leading to a tie with my fellow wolf with no knowledge of what the tiebreaker is.

I understand why people are questioning why I didn't move given that Ardent was a Company member, but the best move for me as a wolf never would have been to suggest Ardent as a late vote switch candidate. It probably would have been best to sacrifice myself and let my fellow Company men vote for me, making them look good.

[Narcizo]

Oh yeah, after a closer re-reading through I notice a lot of stuff I've been "proposing" has already been mentioned by Alan. Sorry about that Alan. Not meaning to steal your ideas. :)

[Alan T]

Oh, and one other thing that I want to be very clear on in case I die somewhere along the way in the next few days... I agree that I have been very defensive of Thomkal the last day or so.. to the point some speculated whether or not my night 1 action gave me information on Thomkal to trust him.. Just to clear that up... my trust of THomkal is not based on my action or any information I gained from my action at all. I trust Thomkal based on a gut read and my perception of some of the posts or events that occured the first two days and how it played out. He could be bad, but I honestly don't feel he is company and I think we have many many other better candidates to choose from along the way.

Just wanted to say that in case I get killed and my innocence leads people to think that Thomkal should be completely trusted. My only point is when someone I distrust pretty heavily pushes to vote for someone that I feel fairly good about, it just sets off sparks in my head. :)

[Thomkal]

Oh, and one other thing that I want to be very clear on in case I die somewhere along the way in the next few days... I agree that I have been very defensive of Thomkal the last day or so.. to the point some speculated whether or not my night 1 action gave me information on Thomkal to trust him.. Just to clear that up... my trust of THomkal is not based on my action or any information I gained from my action at all. I trust Thomkal based on a gut read and my perception of some of the posts or events that occured the first two days and how it played out. He could be bad, but I honestly don't feel he is company and I think we have many many other better candidates to choose from along the way.

Just wanted to say that in case I get killed and my innocence leads people to think that Thomkal should be completely trusted. My only point is when someone I distrust pretty heavily pushes to vote for someone that I feel fairly good about, it just sets off sparks in my head. :)

I'm very glad to hear you say that Alan because I'm pretty sure I know where you picked up on who I am, and if so you are most definitely correct about it.

[Barkeep49]

4.) Barkeep put vote on Jackal, putting him ahead 5-4 (everyone else).

Still catching up, but this is incorrect. By your own analysis, and by my posts at the time, I was the 4th vote on Jackal. No Lynch was in the lead at that time with 5, not Jackal.

[Neon_Chaos]

520 - Thomkal unvotes Chief, votes Jackal (4-4-4-3-3-1) Thom/NL/Ardent tied, Neon/Jackal one back
528 - Torgo votes NoLynch (5-4-4-3-3-1) NL leads, Thom/Ardent tied, Neon/Jackal two back
529 - Barkeep votes Jackal (5-4-4-4-3-1) NL leads, Thom/Ardent/Jackal tied, Neon two back
530 - Torgo unvote NoLynch, votes Neon (4-4-4-4-4-1) NL/Thom/Ardent/Jackal/Neon tied

Just a question for DT, why would you force a four-way tie, when Thomkal, AE, and Jackal were all ahead of me by one vote?

[Neon_Chaos]

Vote Count:

St.Cronin - Alan T (756), Schmidty (893)
The Jackal - Render (789)
Schmidty - st.cronin (819)
Render - NeonChaos (856)
Barkeep - path (859)
GreyRooFoo - Jackal (882), Chief Rum (911)
mauboy - (912)

I will be digging back into the thread to provide my reasoning why I want render to be on the line for lynching tonight.

[Alan T]

Oh.. one other note I just remembered that I wanted to make based on last night's discussions while I was sleeping..

NFG in his reveal hypothisized that Greyroofoo might be sylar due to being able to kill someone who voted for him. (Or something along those lines).. I don't think that is Sylar.. at least not from a show point of view. If I had to guess from a show point of view, that is the exploding man, whatever his name was (Ted?) When you got him mad.. bad things happened.

[hoopsguy]

Still catching up, but this is incorrect. By your own analysis, and by my posts at the time, I was the 4th vote on Jackal. No Lynch was in the lead at that time with 5, not Jackal.

You are correct - just doubled back to verify this. I would edit posts, but that obviously doesn't happen in WW.

[Narcizo]

Speaking on my reveal, I wanted to put myself in a position of disclosing information because I'm more worried about a lynch than Sylar/Company. If you follow the show, it shouldn't be all that hard to put two and two together.


I don't get this at all. Why are you worried about a lynch?

[Barkeep49]

I think that Sylar, apparently without night kills, has to have other mondo powers in order to compensate for him being a 1 man side. Not sure what this says about NFG, because PM'ing people is a great power to give to a bad guy, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

I think, based on voting analysis, that Mr. W comes out looking the worst. I feel his vote was the crucial attempt to "seal" the vote. Now he could have been a villager doing this, or he could have been company trying to save Ardent.

But I'm going to go ahead and suggest, for the time, that it was with the intent of saving a teammate and vote for him.

Vote Mr. Wednesday

[hoopsguy]

I don't get this at all. Why are you worried about a lynch?

Read the whole statement, not just the first part.

What is Claire's power on the show?

[Lathum]

Am I the only one to think that Lathum seems to have a bee in his bonnet about Sylar, to a much greater extent than everyone else. Fair enough the phrasing about Sylar being given a name is pretty vague (as I myself thought) but I thought that consensus was that Sylar was not given a fake name. Lathum also said that he believed Sylar would be in favour of a No Lynch vote on day one (251), which, in my opinion, is the exact opposite of what Sylar would want. With Sylar's victory conditions I would have thought that he was all for as much killing as possible.


I think we all need to have a "bee in our bun" about sylar, I don't think I have been over the top about it but if you think I have been then ok I guess.. Other then a passing day 1 coment and some dialouge with BK I;m not seeing what you are seeing.

My opinion on sylar is this. He would want a no lynch on day 1 for 2 reasons.

1. To blend in

2. I have no knowledge of how his role works, but I am assuming he can't obtain the powers of someone lynched, I think I mentioned that which you convientley forgot to mention. That is why a no lynch may not be a bad thing for him. One less power to obtain.

[Lathum]

Just throwing this out there that I think sylar would be a fan of a no lynch since he probably can't obtain the power of someone who was lynched.


This is for you Narcizo. You conveniently left this out of your analysis.

I don't know if this is a sloppy set up attempt but you are now clearly on my radar.

[hoopsguy]

I think that Sylar, apparently without night kills, has to have other mondo powers in order to compensate for him being a 1 man side. Not sure what this says about NFG, because PM'ing people is a great power to give to a bad guy, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

I think, based on voting analysis, that Mr. W comes out looking the worst. I feel his vote was the crucial attempt to "seal" the vote. Now he could have been a villager doing this, or he could have been company trying to save Ardent.

But I'm going to go ahead and suggest, for the time, that it was with the intent of saving a teammate and vote for him.

Vote Mr. Wednesday

Do you read that Night 2 was a Company kill then, instead of Sylar? My take on it, at least until having a good reason to do otherwise, is that Sylar got a kill last night. I think that the Company did not as a result of their killer (Ardent) dying during the lynch.

Not sure if this is right, but the kill description was vague and it makes little sense to me that Sylar would not be out killing at least every other day.

[Lathum]

I also have a "bee in my bonnet" because I think it is important to kill sylar early before he can potentialy get really powerfull

[Barkeep49]

2. I have no knowledge of how his role works, but I am assuming he can't obtain the powers of someone lynched, I think I mentioned that which you convientley forgot to mention. That is why a no lynch may not be a bad thing for him. One less power to obtain.

But he also apparently can't night kill, otherwise I'd have to think he'd have attempted one to get himself some powers. Could he have some other abilities other than power stealing?

[Neon_Chaos]

Day 2 vote:
318 - Clap votes Thomkal (1-0)
328 - Cronin votes Ardent (1-1)
331 - Alan votes Clap (1-1-1)
357 - NFG votes Clap (2-1-1)
397 - Ardent votes Alan T (2-1-1-1)
426 - Alan unvotes Clap, votes NFG (1-1-1-1-1)
434 - Chief votes Thomkal (2-1-1-1-1) Thom leads
443 - Schmidty votes Grey (2-1-1-1-1-1)
444 - MrW votes Olie (2-1-1-1-1-1-1)
445 - Narc votes NoLynch (2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1)
447 - Neon votes NoLynch (2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1) Thom/NL tied
452 - Ardent unvotes Alan, votes NoLynch (3-2-1-1-1-1-1)
459 - Thomkal votes Chief (3-2-1-1-1-1-1-1)
471 - Mauboy votes Neon (3-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1)
474 - Lathum votes Thomkal (3-3-1-1-1-1-1-1-1) Thom/NL tied
480 - Jackal unvotes Render, votes Thomkal (4-3-1-1-1-1-1-1) Thom leads
487 - SnDvls votes Ardent (4-3-2-1-1-1-1-1) Ardent now 3rd in votes, separating from pack of ones
488 - Schmidty unvotes Grey, votes NoLynch (4-4-2-1-1-1-1-1) Thom/NL tied
489 - Hoops votes Jackal (4-4-2-1-1-1-1-1-1)
496/498 - NFG unvotes Clap, votes Jackal (4-4-2-2-1-1-1-1-1) Thom/NL tied, AE/Jackal two back
499 - RendeR votes Neon (4-4-2-2-2-1-1-1-1) Thom/NL tied, AE/Jackal/Neon two back
511 - Path votes Neon (4-4-3-2-2-1-1-1-1) Thom/NL tied, Neon one back, AE/Jackal two back
512 - Alan unvotes NFG, votes Ardent (4-4-3-3-2-1-1) Thom/NL tied, Neon/AE one back, Jackal two back
518 - Olie votes Ardent (4-4-4-3-2-1-1) Thom/NL/Ardent tied, Neon one back, Jackal two back
520 - Thomkal unvotes Chief, votes Jackal (4-4-4-3-3-1) Thom/NL/Ardent tied, Neon/Jackal one back
528 - Torgo votes NoLynch (5-4-4-3-3-1) NL leads, Thom/Ardent tied, Neon/Jackal two back
529 - Barkeep votes Jackal (5-4-4-4-3-1) NL leads, Thom/Ardent/Jackal tied, Neon two back
530 - Torgo unvote NoLynch, votes Neon (4-4-4-4-4-1) NL/Thom/Ardent/Jackal/Neon tied
553 - Neon unvotes NoLynch, votes Jackal (5-4-4-3-1) Jackal leads, Thom/Ardent/Neon one back, NL two back
565 - MrW unvotes Olie, votes Jackal (6-4-4-3) Jackal up two on Thom/Ardent/Neon, three on NL
585 - Jackal unvotes Thomkal, votes Neon (6-5-4-3-3) Jackal up one on Neon, two on Ardent, three on Thom/NL
597 - Grey votes Jackal (7-5-4-3-3) Jackal up two on Neon, three on Ardent, four on Thom/NL
612 - Jackal unvotes Neon, votes Ardent (7-5-4-3-3) Jackal up two on Ardent, three on Neon, four on Thom/NL
618 - Neon unvotes Jackal, votes Ardent (6-6-4-3-3) Jackal/Ardent tied, up two on Neon, three on Thom/NL

The above sequence of votes is what bugs me... and why I would place doubt on Thomkal.

Render and Path vote for me even though there are already 3 likely candidates in Thomkal, AE, and Jackal with 2 or more votes. I suddenly am only one vote behind Thomkal and No Lynch.

AlanT and olie then vote for Ardent. Ardent is now tied with Thomkal with four votes each, I had 3, and Jackal had 2.

Given the benefit of the doubt that Thomkal is thinking about survival (like many of you claim he is), at this moment in time, he could have put his vote on AE and put AE ahead, but he doesn't... he goes votes for Jackal, who was two votes behind? Why would he not put his vote on ardent? I don't buy the fact that Jackal already had a vote on him.

Remember, AE is an unscannable wolf, and the wolves probably thought that they could manipulate the vote enough to keep AE safe.

BK and Torgo split their votes on me and Jackal... creating a stupid 4-way tie.

This entire thing just went down in a ridiculous way that I cannot believe it wasn't crafted as a way to save both AE and Thomkal, and kill off Jackal or myself.

[Narcizo]

I don't get this at all. Why are you worried about a lynch?

Ahh! Sorry, I'm being stupid. I get how you mean. Let me ask another question then.

Why are you interested in telling the bad guys not to waste a night kill attempt on you? Wouldn't it be better to let them target you and save another villager from a night kill?

[Lathum]

Oh.. one other note I just remembered that I wanted to make based on last night's discussions while I was sleeping..

NFG in his reveal hypothisized that Greyroofoo might be sylar due to being able to kill someone who voted for him. (Or something along those lines).. I don't think that is Sylar.. at least not from a show point of view. If I had to guess from a show point of view, that is the exploding man, whatever his name was (Ted?) When you got him mad.. bad things happened.

alan, I think it's bad strategy to openly speculate on someones role.

[Alan T]

I don't buy that the company had their killed get lynched. Even if they felt safe enough that Ardent wasn't going to get lynched due to the lead of votes on Jackyl, I can't think they would have still had Ardent be their killer and take the chance. I have to assume they had someone else listed as their killer, or had a conditional order in for a different killer if Ardent got lynched.

If the kill was Sylar, I think there has to be a different reason for the no company kill and not that Ardent got lynched. Something like they can kill every other night or such..

I still strongly feel though that it was indeed a company kill and not a Sylar kill though. I think when Sylar finally kills, it will be very clear to us that it was a Sylar kill from the description of a head cut open. Just based on the detail Jeheinz has put into this game and how important of an element that would be to have, I just have to imagine that will be the case.

No, i think the kill of oliegirl was also a company kill, and Sylar has some reason he hasn't killed yet. We've seen games before where people had conditions that they couldn't kill till they meet some requirement first, or they couldn't kill until night 3, or only every third night or whatever. I'm still not given up on the chance of Sylar killing and it starting soon.

[Alan T]

alan, I think it's bad strategy to openly speculate on someones role.


So its ok for all of them to speculate on his role incorrectly leading to votes on him for a bad reason, but its not ok for me to speculate on the role in a way to try to discredit their thinking? :)

Just checking!

[Lathum]

So its ok for all of them to speculate on his role incorrectly leading to votes on him for a bad reason, but its not ok for me to speculate on the role in a way to try to discredit their thinking? :)

Just checking!

I think you should at least give him a chance to respond. Lets say he is sylar, you now just gave him an out.

Plus he only has 2 votes on him, what are you worried about?

With that I'm off to class.

[Neon_Chaos]

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me.

Unvote RendeR
Vote Thomkal

[Narcizo]

This is for you Narcizo. You conveniently left this out of your analysis.

I don't know if this is a sloppy set up attempt but you are now clearly on my radar.

Interesting.

You are pull up Barkeep (and just about everyone else who has expressed any thoughts on the matter) because of his assumptions about Sylar, and yet your own assumptions about Sylar's powers make it ok for you to draw conclusions about what he's up to. "He wants a no lynch vote because he can absorb people's powers" As it happens I agree with you in this assumption but you seem to be, at best, guilty of double-standards.

[Alan T]

I think you should at least give him a chance to respond. Lets say he is sylar, you now just gave him an out.

Plus he only has 2 votes on him, what are you worried about?

With that I'm off to class.

I guess its because I like to speculate, I have fun doing it in these games.. I get bored just sitting around not tossing out opinions or thoughts.. I like throwing everything against the wall and seeing what sticks and what doesn't? :)

I don't feel that I gave him any more of an out than he already previously had though. if he is in fact Sylar, he still has to take the chance of claiming to be Ted and run the risk that someone else is Ted instead. Heck maybe I'm Ted and I'm just trying to set him up to fake reveal and get burned?

I just know how these runs start, and seeing one start on what I think is not accurate information, from someone whom I don't really trust (NFG) just is a bad idea is all.

And my current guess on who is Sylar is suddenly Barkeep for who knows what reason.. but of course I previously thought Hoopsguy might be Sylar and was completely wrong about that.. so probably wrong here too :)

[Narcizo]

Just to be clear (which I clearly wasn't) I agree with the assumption that he can steal someone's powers. Not that he'd want a No Lynch vote so he has a better shot at stealing someone's powers.

[Alan T]

Shout out to petrochile. Hope you're enjoying the read.

[Lathum]

Interesting.

You are pull up Barkeep (and just about everyone else who has expressed any thoughts on the matter) because of his assumptions about Sylar, and yet your own assumptions about Sylar's powers make it ok for you to draw conclusions about what he's up to. "He wants a no lynch vote because he can absorb people's powers" As it happens I agree with you in this assumption but you seem to be, at best, guilty of double-standards.

actualy no.

I am making an assumption based off my knowledge of the show.

BK's statements were far mo related to gameplay.

[Barkeep49]

Lathum when you get back from class I'd love to hear how you think Sylar steals powers considering we haven't seen him do a night kill yet. Do you think it's a night kill and he's waiting for some reason? Or could it be some other mechanism?

And for all: Does it really only make sense that Sylar's ability is to steal powers? Or could he do something else?

[Barkeep49]

BK's statements were far mo related to gameplay.
Which is all I comment on because I don't know jack about the show.

[Alan T]

Lathum when you get back from class I'd love to hear how you think Sylar steals powers considering we haven't seen him do a night kill yet. Do you think it's a night kill and he's waiting for some reason? Or could it be some other mechanism?

And for all: Does it really only make sense that Sylar's ability is to steal powers? Or could he do something else?

Pretty much in the show, all he does is kill people and take their powers. He's a fun character partially because of the actor who plays him... and there is some backstory to why and how he kills people and takes their powers (I commented alot on his backstory the first two days if you want to read up on that).. but in the end, all he really does is kill someone and take their powers.

He depends on other people to help him get what he needs.. he uses Mohinder and his list to locate the heros that he wants to kill, and then when he gets there he kills them. As he's gotten more powers he has become able to kill people in new fun ways, but initially he had to use just common tools like knifes/etc to kill the first few as he had no powers to kill at the start.

[Barkeep49]

Ok then. I'm just very confused, then, why we haven't seen any Sylar night kills.

[hoopsguy]

Narc, the reason I put it out there is that I've seen people with my power get lynched in multiple games and it is always a massive waste.

Also, it avoids the "why the hell isn't this guy getting night-killed if he is good" argument. I probably could have waited another day or two to see what happens, but by revealing I also allow the good guys to have the opportunity to use their power intelligently with me - either to validate me or to direct elsewhere, depending on their preference.

[Alan T]

Ok then. I'm just very confused, then, why we haven't seen any Sylar night kills.


Well I already gave a bunch of reasons in my earlier post about 10-12 minutes ago. :)

[Neon_Chaos]

Ok then. I'm just very confused, then, why we haven't seen any Sylar night kills.

Just a hunch, based on my ability (which involves random.org, apparently, damn you jeheinz!), but perhaps Sylar's kills are random.org dependent, and he's been failing his rolls?

Or perhaps someone has a Sylar blocking skill (highly unlikely), and he's been lucky two nights in a row.

[Alan T]

If Hoops is still around on day 5 or 6, I'm going to be very suspicious of him being company!





























*This is obviously a joke post.

[Barkeep49]

Well I already gave a bunch of reasons in my earlier post about 10-12 minutes ago. :)
Yeah it could be a "can't kill until night 4" (or night 3) bit, but that leaves him awfully exposed until then which would be a bummer for a 1 man side. Definitely a possibility and the most likely explanation I suppose.

[SnDvls]

maybe Syler and the company actually alternate night kills.

[SnDvls]

Vote Barkeep

something about him isn't sitting right with me

[DaddyTorgo]

Just a question for DT, why would you force a four-way tie, when Thomkal, AE, and Jackal were all ahead of me by one vote?

still catching up, but wanted to answer this: i wanted to cut rodney some slack, i felt like CR said that he had some sort of "passive" power as i do, and people were misinterperting it and jumping on him when he wasn't around, and i wasn't particularly a fan of a thomkal vote, so it came down to jackel and you NC, and idk...I just picked one

[Narcizo]

Given the benefit of the doubt that Thomkal is thinking about survival (like many of you claim he is), at this moment in time, he could have put his vote on AE and put AE ahead, but he doesn't... he goes votes for Jackal, who was two votes behind? Why would he not put his vote on ardent? I don't buy the fact that Jackal already had a vote on him.


I have to say that Thomkal voting for Jackal rather than Ardent in those circumstances is really pretty odd. I don't think it necessarily follows that DT or BK were in on some sort of elaborate vote rigging scheme but it doesn't seem logical for him to vote for Jackal at that stage unless he had some sort of info on him.

I don't necessarily think that the stuff that made him a lynch candidate yesterday has a lot of vailidity. But I think that that one vote alone is reason to make him another strong candidate today. It's certainly something more solid than Alan or my gut feeling about st.cronin. I'm going to reread what Thomkal said in his defence but I'm moving towards a lynch vote for him at the moment.

[Barkeep49]

Vote Barkeep

something about him isn't sitting right with me
Perhaps the fact that I don't know much about this theme and so I am hopelessly floundering about trying to figure it out?

[Barkeep49]

maybe Syler and the company actually alternate night kills.
We've already seen two consecutive company night kills.

[SnDvls]

We've already seen two consecutive company night kills.

what makes you say night 2 was a company kill?

[DaddyTorgo]

i've probably got a busy morning...i need to get a placeholder vote in at least.

i tried to read through all the posts since last I've been on here as I was sipping my coffee, and my conclusion as a placeholder vote is

VOTE MR. WEDNESDAY

I hope I'll be back to give it more thought, but I want to be sure I get something in in case I get pulled away

[claphamsa]

Perhaps the fact that I don't know much about this theme and so I am hopelessly floundering about trying to figure it out?
im the same way, its confusing for me that people are talking about the show, when heinze said it doesnt follow the show... and I never saw it anyways. also having ot catchup over 600 posts is tough. thankfully that horrid training is over :)

[Narcizo]

Narc, the reason I put it out there is that I've seen people with my power get lynched in multiple games and it is always a massive waste.

Also, it avoids the "why the hell isn't this guy getting night-killed if he is good" argument. I probably could have waited another day or two to see what happens, but by revealing I also allow the good guys to have the opportunity to use their power intelligently with me - either to validate me or to direct elsewhere, depending on their preference.

Fair enough. I would be very much in favour of someone validating you.

[SnDvls]

still catching up, but wanted to answer this: i wanted to cut rodney some slack, i felt like CR said that he had some sort of "passive" power as i do, and people were misinterperting it and jumping on him when he wasn't around, and i wasn't particularly a fan of a thomkal vote, so it came down to jackel and you NC, and idk...I just picked one

actually the only person to "jump on him" for this statement was me and it was when he was on when I did it and he blew me and it off.

[Neon_Chaos]

i've probably got a busy morning...i need to get a placeholder vote in at least.

i tried to read through all the posts since last I've been on here as I was sipping my coffee, and my conclusion as a placeholder vote is

VOTE MR. WEDNESDAY

I hope I'll be back to give it more thought, but I want to be sure I get something in in case I get pulled away

Any thoughts on Thomkal, DT?

[Alan T]

im the same way, its confusing for me that people are talking about the show, when heinze said it doesnt follow the show... and I never saw it anyways. also having ot catchup over 600 posts is tough. thankfully that horrid training is over :)


I think this is a mis-statement. Jeheinz never said that this game doesn't follow the show, and in fact I think the evidence we have seen so far draws a logical progression from many references in the show. As far as I am aware, the only thing Jeheinz was sure to say was that we can not discern roles from what side people were on in the show. So far, the majority of everything else seems to lead me to believe that conversation about the show is actually fairly relevant in some cases. The only thing I'm trying to do is not throw out many season 2 spoilers if I can help it since a few people have mentioned they hadn't had a chance to watch it yet.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, on the topic of Season 2 spoilers - I thought Grey's power sounded more like someone from Season 2 than Nuclear Ted.

[SnDvls]

what makes you say night 2 was a company kill?

This is for Barkeep since he didn't answer it the 1st time I'll ask again

[Alan T]

Alan, on the topic of Season 2 spoilers - I thought Grey's power sounded more like someone from Season 2 than Nuclear Ted.

I think its the same premise, you could be right. I guess my point was more:

I don't really feel that great about NFG, or his reveal, so please don't go on -HIS- opinion that Grey's power sounds like Sylar, because there are much better roles that type of power seems to fit in with.

Since Grey picked up two pretty quick votes based on NFG's analysis, I just figured I should say that. I think there are possible reasons to vote for Grey, including his vote which for practical purposes should have put The Jackyl away yesterday before the last minute save.. just I don't buy the Sylar angle is all.

[Schmidty]

Ok, I'm leaving work, and won't be able to be back on until the afternoon, so pleeeaaase don't gang up on me. :(

[jeheinz72]

Vote count coming soon!

[Alan T]

Vote count coming soon!

I'm waiting breathlessly.

[jeheinz72]

Har har Alan.


St. Cronin (2): Alan T (756), Schmidty (893)
Barkeep49 (2): path12 (859), SnDvls (971)
Greyfooroo (2): Jackal (882), Chief Rum (911)
Mr. Wednesday (2) : Barkeep49 (942), DaddyTorgo (977)
Jackal (1) : RendeR (789)
Schmidty (1): St. Cronin (819)
Mauboy1 (1): Mr. Wednesday (912)
Thomkal (1): Neon Chaos (955)


Not voting (8): Hoops, Thomkal, Narcizo, nfg22, Greyfooroo, mauboy1, Lathum, claphamsa

[claphamsa]

Im gonna reread everythign later, but for now (incase this is one of those never ending satff meeings)

vote nfg

[claphamsa]

but ill probably change it :)

[Narcizo]

Read through what Thomkal has to say and while he offers a reason for not moving to Ardent at the end I haven't seen his reason for moving to Jackal instead of Ardent earlier on. But overall I'm not getting much of a wolfy vibe off of him but I've got less than an hour to make a decision and, at the moment, it's a vote based toss up between GRF and him. I absolutely don't buy GRF being Sylar based on what cfg said though. If either come in soon and can offer a reason for voting Jackal I'd be appreciative.

PS Thomkal it's very poor form to post in a thread other than the WW thread when you're playing a game. Messes up the "recent post" lists. I was wondering what the hell you were talking about for a while until I realised that it was an American Idol thread. :)

[Alan T]

Ardent has a killer voice, and his song selection is good, but all of that fur is what did it in for me.

[Narcizo]

Meh! With 4 people already on 2 votes I don't like adding someone else to the mix, but I feel the votes placed on NFG (not cfg. Sorry) have been placed for the wrong reason.

[jeheinz72]

Hey folks, just a heads up. Things may be a tad delayed today. The wife and kids are dropping in the office right around that 1-1:30 timeframe. I'll be around to call the deadline likely, but results and such may take until 2-2:30ish.

[Alan T]

Meh! With 4 people already on 2 votes I don't like adding someone else to the mix, but I feel the votes placed on NFG (not cfg. Sorry) have been placed for the wrong reason.


Care to clarify why that is? I only see one vote on NFG and it just came and as far as I can tell, Clap didn't really give a reason for it. Just curious.

[hoopsguy]

I agree that the vote is too splintered right now. In particular, the people I have some level of trust for currently are divided across different candidates.

[Alan T]

Har har Alan.


St. Cronin (2): Alan T (756), Schmidty (893)
Barkeep49 (2): path12 (859), SnDvls (971)
Greyfooroo (2): Jackal (882), Chief Rum (911)
Mr. Wednesday (2) : Barkeep49 (942), DaddyTorgo (977)
Jackal (1) : RendeR (789)
Schmidty (1): St. Cronin (819)
Mauboy1 (1): Mr. Wednesday (912)
Thomkal (1): Neon Chaos (955)


Not voting (8): Hoops, Thomkal, Narcizo, nfg22, Greyfooroo, mauboy1, Lathum, claphamsa

Well, my vote right now is for one of the leaders in Cronin. Of the other leaders, I doubt I'll vote for Greyfooroo , however I don't have any issues with anyone who would like to vote for him because of his vote placement yesterday. BK I have this nagging voice in my head telling me he might be Sylar, but its just a dumb reason for it that I don't really have the energy in me to push.. So I'm likely interested in staying on Cronin for today.

[Narcizo]

Care to clarify why that is? I only see one vote on NFG and it just came and as far as I can tell, Clap didn't really give a reason for it. Just curious.

Because I'm mixing him up with GRF. Silly acronymns. :o

[Alan T]

oh mr.w also has two votes too.. I also assume due to the vote yesterday. I don't really have a good read on him one way or another right now. I'll have to go back and see who was pushing for him and such.. but right now the two votes on Mr.W (BK and DT) aren't necessarily near the top of my trust list, so I don't think I'll join them.