WW LXVII - Heroes (GAME OVER! HEROES WIN!)

[claphamsa]

1960

[hoopsguy]

Updated to reflect Neon's scan of Clap last night.


1. Clap - Hoops vouches that he is Noah Bennet, viewed as inactive by Neon (no kill that night)
2. Hoops - Clap vouches that he is Claire Bennet, RendeR scanned as good
3. Jackal - Neon vouches as inactive on night of kill (was that a Sylar kill? I think it was ...), RendeR scanned as good
4. Path12 - no vouches on ID, but Grey (hero) says he attacked him with his power and Path lived, supporting Adam Monroe claim
5. Grey - RendeR scanned as good, Path vouches for use of power
6. Schmidty - has anyone scanned him yet?
7. Neon - has anyone scanned him yet? Has demonstrated power by initiating chat with Jackal
8. Chief Rum - has demonstrated power by chatting with RendeR
9. MrW - unscanned
10. RendeR - viewed in trance by hero Thomkal

[Chief Rum]

Thomkal observed him in a trance the night before he died, if I recall correctly.

Two thoughts on RendeR = Sylar.
1.) He was the last to reveal his role (point against)
2.) Do we really think Isaac, the seer, isn't in a werewolf game? (point for)

Another thought on Render-Sylar. But first a question: jeheinz said Sylar absolutely does not receive a name, right?

Because I know Render is Isaac. That info isn't from Render. It's from jeheinz in my PM announcing our mental connection. So, assuming the moderator ain't doing something funky and sending me lies, Render is definitely Isaac.

If Sylar does have an assumed identity as provided by jeheinz, of course, all bets are off.

[hoopsguy]

Chief, I'm operating under the same assumption with Clap as you are with RendeR. If one of us is working with bad info here, by way of moderator PM, then I'm going to be a tad frustrated at the end of the game.

The question on Sylar and initial name has been asked a few times and the consensus opinion seems to be that he only received the name Sylar (Heinz posted this after the question was asked a few different ways). If this is incorrect then I'm working off a very bad set of assumptions.

[hoopsguy]

I guess at this stage I'm most interested in either Path or Neon as they have claimed roles later in the process that I don't think are cinches to be in the game. I feel that Path has demonstrated his power in the thread (per Grey trying to kill him, story matching with DT trying to kill him) while I can't recall an instance where Neon has done the same.

Neon has established PMs with Jackal, who seems pretty convinced of his innocence. Neon has cleared a couple of people, which is a good way of building trust with an unverified power. Someone correct me if I'm forgetting something and just allowing myself to get paranoid for no good reason.

At the moment, my distrust list looks like this:
Neon
Path
MrW

MrW has gotten a fair amount of latitude from me because of his role (Hiro) and because SnDvls said he contacted Hiro. So that convinces me that the role is in the game and is not Sylar. But just about everyone else not named NeonChaos or Path has a more compelling vouch as far as I can tell.

[path12]

Well, since I haven't been scanned (seriously, why the hell am I never scanned?) there's not a ton I can do to prove anything more than I already have, except to point out that I was on DaddyTorgo for at least a couple of days.

The problem with lynching me though is that being an uncertain night kill does provide some value to the heroes......though as I've said I understand the idea of winnowing down the unchecked people since we seem to have numbers on our side.

It would all be much easier though if someone just friggin' scanned me.....

[hoopsguy]

Don't blame me - I asked RendeR to scan you last night for that very reason ... you have more value being around at night than Jackal (or most of the others we could potentially pick).

Path, in a larger sense I wish I had your issues with never being scanned. Or that people would at least wait until Day 3 or later to scan me. Sigh.

So, what do you think about the other players remaining in the game? The early votes went to Schmidty and MrW ... do you think those are optimal plays? Where do you sit on Neon? Any other ideas that haven't been aired yet?

[path12]

Here's what I think of the remaining players:

RendeR -- I trust the little bastard for a change. ;) I believe his scans are good. That means that hoops, Jackal and Grey are good.

Schmidty -- I was on the fence about him, because what better villain than one with multiple powers? But his reaction to Grey blasting me got me thinking that he's possibly good, I think baddies generally know exactly what is going on in the game. I would like to see him scanned though.

Clapham -- He's learned quickly to measure his posts, wouldn't you say? The thing I like best about Clapham is that he plays the clueless character better than almost anyone, and I think is going to become a really hard wolf to pick out. He's been around the whole game, and I hardly remember a thing he's said. Total unknown at this point except for the fact that you vouch for him as a name, which should mean he's not Sylar.

Chief. I would like Chief to be scanned. I would say after me, but I know I'm good and think I've proved it enough to not be the immediate target. I don't see where the fact he's chatted with RendeR means anything. I remember a game where Anxiety and I were brothers, I vouched for him early based on that, and he was a wolf the whole time.

Mr W I think I've covered. He is playing his usual game of keeping his cards close, but if you've apparently done nothing or nothing that anyone is aware of at night on day 7, I think you either have a way too minor power to keep under your vest or you're a bad guy.

Neon to me is much in the same boat as Chief. Just because he can initiate contact doesn't mean much to me, so he is still a bit of a question mark to me. My gut leans good with him, whatever that's worth.

[path12]

Path, in a larger sense I wish I had your issues with never being scanned. Or that people would at least wait until Day 3 or later to scan me. Sigh.

Fair point. It definitely helps me to be a better wolf. But it's frustrating in games like this.

[hoopsguy]

The thing with Chief is that his role was named in the death description for Olie/West. She had a telepathic link with Matt Parkman in her role. No one has challenged that reveal. So that tells me that Parkman is in the game. Ergo, not a Sylar fake reveal.

[Mr. Wednesday]

OK, fine. If Sylar kills me and uses this against you, it's your funeral.

My power is that I can alter the deadline. It's somewhat limited in that Heinz has to be around to effect it. It's a one-shot thing.

[Mr. Wednesday]

BTW, I think it's an asinine play to vote for me unless you think there's another company member in the game (which, in my mind, strains credibility). SnDvls confirmed that Hiro is in the game, and if I weren't Hiro, then surely the real Hiro would have confronted me about it.

[hoopsguy]

MrW, coming back around - who do you think are the most likely candidates for today?

And can anyone find a vouch for Neon on a night where Sylar has killed?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Here's the updated list of people who are still alive, green indicates strong confidence that the player in question is not Sylar:

1. Claphamsa - Noah Bennett/HRG (hoops confirms this)
2. hoopsguy - Claire Bennett (claphamsa confirms this)
3. The Jackal - Eden McCain (RendeR confirms this)
5. RendeR - Isaac Mendez (has been seen in a trance, very late to reveal but with good reason)
8. path12 - Adam Monroe (I think all we have here is Ted's attack. Has admitted to escaping a company attack on night 2, but that's no proof of villager-hood)
9. Greyroofoo - Ted (path12 confirmed the attack, didn't RendeR confirm he's not Sylar?)
15. Schmidty - Peter Petrelli (reasonably solid, his discussion agrees with this)
16. Neon Chaos - Lyle Bennett
17. Chief Rum - Matt Parkman (a prior kill confirms the role is present)
21. Mr. Wednesday - Hiro (SnDvls confirmed the role is present)

[Mr. Wednesday]

Has RendeR vouched path12 yet? Even though I'm not 100% sold on RendeR, a non-Sylar vouch from him seems more or less ironclad to me (if he's Sylar, the vouched person isn't, else RendeR's telling the truth).

[hoopsguy]

Nope - I was hoping he would get Path last night but he picked Jackal instead. Overall, I think RendeR's selections have been very good - minus the two nights he didn't submit an order/vote/whatever.

[The Jackal]

hey guys sorry i haven't been around today, catching up with friends.

i'll definitely be around tomorrow morning before the deadline to give my input, but man, this is tough.

thanks for scanning me render, i understand why some people might've thought it was a bad scan, but at least we can focus on the right people now.

neon definitely could be sylar. i haven't gotten any bad vibes off my communication with him, and thus i'm not very suspicious of him, but unfortunately my power doesn't let me rule anyone out so i can't fully clear him even though he did a solid by viewing me on thomkal's death night.

i really don't think render is sylar. so we've got mr w, path, and clap? i need to go back and check those recent posts about when these people were supposedly cleared, i'll take care of that tomorrow. the one that seems fishiest to me just off the top of my head is path because i feel like his only clear was that he offered himself up saying he only had a chance of surviving GRF's attack, but that could have easily been a lie.

it's pretty likely that sylar is the only bad guy left, yes? i suppose there could've been a company conversion but it's seeming like that's not the case. any which way you spin it, it looks like we're in good shape even if we miss him once or twice.

see you all in the morning, i should be around by 12 EST at the latest.

[hoopsguy]

I'm not sure what my availability is going to look like tomorrow ... I'll be around, just not sure exactly when.

If someone can present a case for what Neon has done that should merit trust - something beyond establising PMs - then I'll be willing to change this vote.

VOTE NEON CHAOS

[The Jackal]

dola

correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure alan nailed all five company members in a row.

[hoopsguy]

Jackal, FWIW I don't think it was a bad idea to scan you ... I just thought Path was a person who had more overall suspicion as well as being a tougher out if he is a good guy since he can potentially survive a night attack.

Glad to have you cleared. Hopefully we don't need to clear too many more because we end the game on a winning note ASAP.

[hoopsguy]

dola

correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure alan nailed all five company members in a row.

Watch this end up as his signature :)

[The Jackal]

Jackal, FWIW I don't think it was a bad idea to scan you ... I just thought Path was a person who had more overall suspicion as well as being a tougher out if he is a good guy since he can potentially survive a night attack.

Glad to have you cleared. Hopefully we don't need to clear too many more because we end the game on a winning note ASAP.

I concur about scanning me, because though there were people who might have had a bit more suspicion, there was absolutely no way i could clear myself from being sylar without that scan.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I think I'd rather go after path12 than Neon_Chaos, but right now, I'm on the block. This vote is obviously subject to change.

VOTE Neon_Chaos

[Chief Rum]

If I thought there was more than one bad guy, and that they knew each other, then I would be afraid of a runaway. Since I'm not too concerned about that, though, I can safely vote with my gut. And that's that there are really very few candidates right now except those mentioned, and Neon's at the top of that list.

VOTE NEON CHAOS

[Neon_Chaos]

FWIW, I have asked people to scan me night after night to prove my innocence, but apparently noone has.

I can certainly see why I'm a target today, but I'm not Sylar. No other choice but to cast my vote with the other guy.

Vote Schmidty

[path12]

the one that seems fishiest to me just off the top of my head is path because i feel like his only clear was that he offered himself up saying he only had a chance of surviving GRF's attack, but that could have easily been a lie.

OK, before this gets too much traction, let's get the story straight. I voted for and told Grey to attack me if he wanted to prove his power because I knew I had a chance to survive the attack. He did hit me with his radiation power, and I survived it.

Prior to that, DaddyTorgo (who I argued was bad), admitted to attacking me night 2, when I was picked up and dropped from a great height. DT also happened to have the power to fly, and was bad.

Adam Monroe (to my understanding) has a similar power to the one I have demonstrated. Nobody has challenged my claim to that name.

I have also offered to be lynched as long as we have numbers to overcome that mistake. The mistake would be double because of my chance to survive a night kill by Sylar. However, I'd rather not be lynched because frankly I think I've played a good enough game not to.

[Neon_Chaos]

On second though, I don't think Schmidty is Sylar either. His role is too prominent to actually have been faked.

I don't have any arguments as to why you should not vote for me. And why shouldn't you? But at least, if I am lynched tonight, that only leaves one man left to be Sylar. I'd rather not be lynched, but if I die, you guys know who to vote for tomorrow.

Unvote Schmidty
Vote Path12

[Schmidty]

FWIW, I have asked people to scan me night after night to prove my innocence, but apparently noone has.

I can certainly see why I'm a target today, but I'm not Sylar. No other choice but to cast my vote with the other guy.

Vote Schmidty


After everything that has shown me to be good, and the importance of the role, AND the fact that even IF you were to get a majority to vote for me I can use the Duke power, your vote is puzzling and troubling. That makes this much easier:

VOTE NEON CHAOS

[Schmidty]

Oops. Guess that'll teach me to read everything before voting.

Well, I still don't know who to vote for because there are multiple "good" targets, but no one that really, really stands out, so I'm just going to leave my vote for now. I don't want to get caught missing a vote again.

[Schmidty]

Hello "guest". Or should I say, Neon Chaos??? ;)

[Neon_Chaos]

Hello "guest". Or should I say, Neon Chaos??? ;)

Wasn't me. I'm usually on the Off Topic thread this time of the day.

[Neon_Chaos]

After everything that has shown me to be good, and the importance of the role, AND the fact that even IF you were to get a majority to vote for me I can use the Duke power, your vote is puzzling and troubling. That makes this much easier:

VOTE NEON CHAOS

Uhm. Didn't the duke get killed by Sylar?

[Schmidty]

Uhm. Didn't the duke get killed by Sylar?

The Duke power was used, and I inherited it.

[Schmidty]

Dola.

I announced that the day I got it.

[Neon_Chaos]

Gotcha.

No chance you can duke this vote away from me and over to Path12? :)

[Schmidty]

Gotcha.

No chance you can duke this vote away from me and over to Path12? :)

Heh. I would, but I need to keep all of my cards so I can stay alive. :)

[claphamsa]

Here's what I think of the remaining players:

RendeR -- I trust the little bastard for a change. ;) I believe his scans are good. That means that hoops, Jackal and Grey are good.

Schmidty -- I was on the fence about him, because what better villain than one with multiple powers? But his reaction to Grey blasting me got me thinking that he's possibly good, I think baddies generally know exactly what is going on in the game. I would like to see him scanned though.

Clapham -- He's learned quickly to measure his posts, wouldn't you say? The thing I like best about Clapham is that he plays the clueless character better than almost anyone, and I think is going to become a really hard wolf to pick out. He's been around the whole game, and I hardly remember a thing he's said. Total unknown at this point except for the fact that you vouch for him as a name, which should mean he's not Sylar.

Chief. I would like Chief to be scanned. I would say after me, but I know I'm good and think I've proved it enough to not be the immediate target. I don't see where the fact he's chatted with RendeR means anything. I remember a game where Anxiety and I were brothers, I vouched for him early based on that, and he was a wolf the whole time.

Mr W I think I've covered. He is playing his usual game of keeping his cards close, but if you've apparently done nothing or nothing that anyone is aware of at night on day 7, I think you either have a way too minor power to keep under your vest or you're a bad guy.

Neon to me is much in the same boat as Chief. Just because he can initiate contact doesn't mean much to me, so he is still a bit of a question mark to me. My gut leans good with him, whatever that's worth.

:p

[Neon_Chaos]

I won't be around for deadline tonight. I would love to finish as a villager, but, If I get lynched (which looks like it's going to happen), Path12 is probably the most likely culprit as Sylar.

[RendeR]

My scan of Jackal last night was the result of conditional orders. One choice wasn't available so the next one got scanned. I have Conditional orders in again today so based on the lynch vote and/or any other shinanagins that go on during the day we will find out if another player is 'Not Sylar" again today.

I'm a bit puzzled as to how/why you would still NOT trust me completely? I don't possibly see the logic that has me being Sylar AND still scanning/clearing people?

Sylar doesn't care about the company, he wouldn't need a power that let him find those players and he could sit back and let the rest of us get them anyway, exactly as we have.

So...really? whats the possible case against me?

[claphamsa]

Your RendeR?

[hoopsguy]

RendeR, the possible case is that Sylar needs to get down to four people, so he can keep clearing people at every turn as we get to that point.

Co-opting the seer role would be a pretty way to gain trust - people are trusted based on your say-so. It would generally discourage people from looking at you.

If I wanted to take it a step further, then I would suggest that there have been five bad guys taken out of this game and you have not identified any of them in your role as seer. But I think that is a pretty bogus argument, as you have correctly identified good guys (based on deaths) and Sylar wouldn't know how to determine factions.

I'm of the strong belief that you are a good guy, that you are exactly who you say you are and not Sylar. If this conclusion is wrong then I'll probably find myself on the losing side of this game because I'll be fighting to keep you alive.

[RendeR]

Your RendeR?


I'm not sure why this would cause suspicion, I have yet to survive to the end of a single game of WW that i've played =)

[jeheinz72]

Updated vote count, lemme know if anything is inaccurate. Over 2000 posts, WOO!

Neon Chaos (4): hoopsguy (2018), Mr. Wednesday (2023), Chief Rum (2024), Schmidty (2028)

Mr. Wednesday (2): Path12 (1990), RendeR (1995)

Schmidty (1): claphamsa (1963)

Path12 (1): Neon Chaos (2027)

Not voting (2): Jackal, GRF

[RendeR]

UNVOTE MR. WEDNESDAY

VOTE NEON CHAOS



BAAaaaaaaaaa

[hoopsguy]

I'm not sure why this would cause suspicion, I have yet to survive to the end of a single game of WW that i've played =)

Wow, this could turn into your version of my "never lynched as a villager" streak. Seriously, I'm surprised that this hasn't happened for you yet. I don't know what the statistics are for people doing this, but I'm guessing it is somewhere around 15-20% for being alive on the winning team.

[RendeR]

Its my winning personality ;)

[hoopsguy]

So I was worried that I wouldn't be around much this morning for conversation - doesn't look like there is too much going around.

[Alan T]

So I was worried that I wouldn't be around much this morning for conversation - doesn't look like there is too much going around.

I'll talk. What do you want to talk about????

[claphamsa]

hows the weather?

[Passacaglia]

I don't wanna talk about it.

[The Jackal]

Alright, I'm here. I don't feel confident voting for neon and it doesn't look like thatll matter anyways, plus.. I don't have a night action so I don't even really need to vote. I can't decide between path and mr w (assuming neon isn't sylar). Mr w has a strong case what with sylar not being given a name and snd confirming he was hiro. path, I have to imagine sylar was given some sort of ability to avoid an early death, because it doesn't look like sylar is impervious to scanning. I know what you did with GRF, but why does DT attacking you and failing clear you? If anything, that's exactly what would happen if the company attacked sylar.

[The Jackal]

Since not voting would be silly, even without a night actionb and a clear run on neon -

vote path

[hoopsguy]

Jackal, are you familiar with the show? Sylar was a pretty ordinary dude until he killed his first person and picked up telekinesis. He gets the powers from those he kills, so we can expect him to have a bodyguard ability (from Narcizo), duke (from Mauboy), and some kind of spy/avoid night kill (Thomkal). He may have gained similar spy/avoid night kill powers from Olie on Night 2.

The attack on Path happened before Sylar took any of these abilities and none of the abilities include avoiding a night kill. Sylar can't be night-killed by the Company, which would explain DT not being able to kill him, but it wouldn't explain living through a night attack by Grey (confirmed hero, per RendeR).

Now if Sylar acquires abilities through some other mechanism and somehow lifted my powers (which is exactly how Path has described his ability) then all bets are off. But that doesn't make sense within the framework of the TV show or what we understand in this game.

I'm not telling you who to vote for here, but I do want to further explain why I don't think Sylar starts with an "avoid death by hero" ability.

[path12]

I know what you did with GRF, but why does DT attacking you and failing clear you? If anything, that's exactly what would happen if the company attacked sylar.

It doesn't necessarily clear me, but it serves to show that when I came out about the attack on me that I was telling the truth, and so my power has been demonstrated twice.

[path12]

I'll stick on the vote on Mr. W, even though it's a good point about his name being out there and from what I gather in thread and on wiki Hiro is a pretty prominent character.

[The Jackal]

I'm not very familiar with the show, but I did misword my statement up there. Bascially all I was trying to say was that DT's attack on path didn't clear him from being sylar since company can't kill sylar, and I wasn't clear why path was using that as an argument.

Do we think DT would have said something if he knew who sylar was?

[Thomkal]

the suspense is killing me! well if I wasn't already dead that is

[path12]

Do we think DT would have said something if he knew who sylar was?

I doubt it. If the company can't win I still don't think they'd throw it to the heroes. Hopefully I'm being scanned tonight.

[jeheinz72]

Deadline.

[jeheinz72]

Votes as they were cast...

Neon Chaos (4): hoopsguy (2018), Mr. Wednesday (2023), Chief Rum (2024), Schmidty (2028)

Path12 (2): Neon Chaos (2027), Jackal (2052)

Mr. Wednesday (2): Path12 (1990), RendeR (1995)

Schmidty (1): claphamsa (1963)

Not voting (1): GRF

[jeheinz72]

The final group of 9 gathers on the eighth day, shocked by the unfortunate news of Mauboy's death.

The opinions are somewhat spread but it is decided that Neon Chaos is not a true Hero. With the focus placed on him, he announces, "I am not the one we are looking for, I am not to be the kill today" He pulls out a blade of glass and stabs it directly through the back of Schmidty's head.

Schmidty falls to a clump on the ground.

Schmidty has died. He was Peter Petrelli, a Hero!


Peter Petrelli

Power: You have of empathic mimicry, meaning, when you see a power used, you can learn it. Each night, I will take all of the powers successfully used and randomly PM one for you to learn. Starting off, you know nothing, but by the end, you could be very powerful.


Night actions and results to follow shortly!

[The Jackal]

Uh. Neon has never mentioned that ability, and that looks to be what Sylar just got from Mau.

[claphamsa]

yep

vote neon!

[DaddyTorgo]

oh damn. schmidty just got pOwned

[path12]

Well, that's not good.

[jeheinz72]

After another shocking turn of events, you barely manage any sleep. In a haze you watch the news again. It seems the killer has again managed to strike.

You hear of an Asian man who died in his apartment, again, with the top of his head cut off. You recognize him to be Mr. Wednesday

Mr. Wednesday has died, he was Hiro Nakamura, a Hero!


Hiro Nakamura

Power: You have the ability to shift time, time-travel, so-to-speak. As such, you have a one-use power. Once in the game, you can alter time and end the Day/Night early.
<O:p
Independently, you are searching for your friend Ando Masahashi. PM me a name each night, if that is Ando, you two will be able to PM for the remainder of the game.


Day/Night Nine has begun, votes and night actions are due at 1 PM EST on Friday, 3/14.

[path12]

VOTE NEON CHAOS

[Thomkal]

sigh

[hoopsguy]

VOTE NEON CHAOS

[hoopsguy]

RendeR, it looks like you might get to live through a game for the first time.

If this is an option, then

VOTE NIGHTFALL

[hoopsguy]

Neon, you missed a chance for heightened humor by not killing RendeR a few posts after he said he has never lived through a game. I'm a little disappointed.

Lyle Bennet - YouTube - bleh :)

Want to talk about how you got your PM ability? I'm assuming you started with it?

I'm not sure why I'm bothering with this right now as you won't be on for another 12 hours or so ...

[RendeR]

Path12 is a hero


Vote NEON CHAOS

[The Jackal]

Vote Neon Chaos

I had a feeling Sylar picked me to PM with. :D

[hoopsguy]

With four votes in on Neon, there is no value to his using the time stop (accelerate deadline) power. So that is good.

Any reason you guys are holding off on voting Nightfall? Not sure that Heinz will honor it, but if he does we could wrap this up a little earlier ...

[Schmidty]

Damn. I wanted to be alive when we won. :(

[path12]

VOTE NIGHTFALL

Thanks for the scan, RendeR.

[RendeR]

VOTE NIGHTFALL

[The Jackal]

Vote Nightfall

[claphamsa]

vote neon
vote nightfall
vote heros win

[jeheinz72]

Well, 5 outta 8 nightfall votes...

The justice is swift on Day Nine, people apparently have an early tee time. The group again focuses on Neon Chaos. This time, however, he's unable to redirect anything. He attempts to fly away, but that only slightly lessens the effect. The resulting outcome of the force is the top of his head completely coming off. That meaks it clear...

Neon Chaos is dead, he was Sylar!


Sylar
<O:p
Your goal is to live to where you are one of just 4 people alive. You cannot be night killed by the Company (but can by other people’s powers). This is irrelevant of the number of wolves left (meaning if it’s 4+ Heroes and you, the game is still played)<O:p></O:p>
<O:p
Power: At the start of each day you can PM me 3 names. If any of those people die, you will have a chance of learning their power. Some powers may be of little use to you, some could be very powerful, if nothing else but for trickery purposes. The list of 3 names must be sent to me by 4 PM EST each day (but as I said, can be sent well before then if you may not be around).<O:p></O:p>


Comments from me and the cleanup to come in a short bit. I'd love any and all feedback!

[claphamsa]

neon is teh pwnnned!!111

[claphamsa]

I would like a rundown of the night kills..... and such!

[Schmidty]

Man, I'm glad we won, but taking one for the team at the very end sucks.

Good game, jeheinz72!

[Neon_Chaos]

I wouldn't kill Render. I'm not that evil, you know.

:)

[Neon_Chaos]

It was a good game. I would have probably won if the Wolves did a better job of, you know, actually hiding themselves. :D

I am open to any and all questions about what I did, how my motives are, and all. :)

[jeheinz72]

I would like a rundown of the night kills..... and such!

Sylar didn't earn the power to do his own kills until Night 4. It started at every other night, until the Company was gone, then it was every night, in addition to him then getting a 1-time day kill (mau) due to outlasting the Company if there were 10+ people in the game.

The first time there was no kill was the attack on path, who like hoops, couldn't be killed the first attempt no matter what. The 2nd time was the night without any company members but before Sylar killing each night.

[Neon_Chaos]

Neon, you missed a chance for heightened humor by not killing RendeR a few posts after he said he has never lived through a game. I'm a little disappointed.

Lyle Bennet - YouTube - bleh :)

Want to talk about how you got your PM ability? I'm assuming you started with it?

I'm not sure why I'm bothering with this right now as you won't be on for another 12 hours or so ...

About RendeR, like I said, I'm not that evil. :)

I got my PM ability from nfg's death. I have a chance to submit 3 names each night, and if one of them died, I would get a random chance of obtaining their abilities. nfg was on my list the time he was lynched.

BTW, I'm only on for about 30 more minutes. Just came back from an excellent mid-week birthday bash. It's 4 AM and I'm pretty drunk. Still cohesive though. Heh.

[jeheinz72]

It was a good game. I would have probably won if the Wolves did a better job of, you know, actually hiding themselves. :D

I am open to any and all questions about what I did, how my motives are, and all. :)

Yeah, I mean the wolves didn't do a bad job overall per se' but they definitely took one on the chin when AE's lynching led straight into Cronin and then NFG was already somewhat exposed so they tried to cash that chip in for trust but the hole was poked in Lathum's story. Big time domino effect.

MVP was definitely Alan in this game, though one could say that really the power that turned it all was Jackal's.

Overall, though I think the game result in this instance looks like a landslide, I think it was pretty balanced. For one, I had people from each of the 3 sides at one point or another complain that it was too unbalanced for them to win, so in some respect the balance was there. I think it was the kind of game that if it was run 10 times it could take a different route each time. Just happened that in this one, the village was on an awesome role and did a good job of communicating and making the right vote.

[Thomkal]

yay heroes! Especially Alan with his psychic hotline. Thanks Jeheinz for running the game, good job!

[Alan T]

Thanks for the game Jeheinz. I apologize for bringing drama in earlier in the game. I sent nfg an apology earlier as well. Long story short, I hurt my knee working out last week and was in extreme pain for a few days, where I wasn't able to sleep or anything. Doctor last friday told me I had "runner's knee" and possibly would eventually need surgery, but for now ibuprofin and ice it down. After 3-4 days of that, the pain has gone away but I can't do the treadmill or jogging/running much anymore. He says I need to stick to eliptical or biking.. So that night I had a short fuse, wasn't feeling good and was just miserable and let it show. I'm not a big fan of name calling, but everyone has seen me take far worse in the past with blowups between Blade and I or whomever.

As for the game, jeheinz knows some of my thoughts regarding balance and such.. I think the game was fun and I enjoyed playing it. I think we (the heroes) just got extremely lucky the first 3 or so days so its hard to say what was imbalanced if anything. Its really tough as a GM to plan for the villagers just outright getting lucky like we did.

[Narcizo]

I think you did a pretty good job under the circumstances Neon. Your position was really weakened by the Company collapsing so early, as that meant everybody was willing to reveal their names, leaving you exposed. If the Company had stayed strong the first three or four days there would be far less revealing going on and you would have been in a much stronger position.

Knowing who you were I thought you gained powers from people who were lynched - however the way you were asking to be scanned I presume you inherited Ardent's power, is that right?

[jeheinz72]

Thanks for the game Jeheinz. I apologize for bringing drama in earlier in the game. I sent nfg an apology earlier as well. Long story short, I hurt my knee working out last week and was in extreme pain for a few days, where I wasn't able to sleep or anything. Doctor last friday told me I had "runner's knee" and possibly would eventually need surgery, but for now ibuprofin and ice it down. After 3-4 days of that, the pain has gone away but I can't do the treadmill or jogging/running much anymore. He says I need to stick to eliptical or biking.. So that night I had a short fuse, wasn't feeling good and was just miserable and let it show. I'm not a big fan of name calling, but everyone has seen me take far worse in the past with blowups between Blade and I or whomever.

As for the game, jeheinz knows some of my thoughts regarding balance and such.. I think the game was fun and I enjoyed playing it. I think we (the heroes) just got extremely lucky the first 3 or so days so its hard to say what was imbalanced if anything. Its really tough as a GM to plan for the villagers just outright getting lucky like we did.

No worries Alan, just a blip, not a big deal really. Hope the knee is ok.

Yeah, in addition to catching a bit of luck with those two first votes, it wasn't just that, but WHICH ones you caught. AE was the cunning wolf so of course he would've been harder to nail at night, and Cronin could dampen powers used on a wolf, so he could've negated the following on Lathum, or any RendeR scan or any of that. I'd say even if it was AE and let's say NFG that you caught early it could've impacted the game.

[Mr. Wednesday]

After another shocking turn of events, you barely manage any sleep. In a haze you watch the news again. It seems the killer has again managed to strike.

You hear of an Asian man who died in his apartment, again, with the top of his head cut off. You recognize him to be Mr. Wednesday

Mr. Wednesday has died, he was Hiro Nakamura, a Hero!

BOOOOO!

[Alan T]

I think you did a pretty good job under the circumstances Neon. Your position was really weakened by the Company collapsing so early, as that meant everybody was willing to reveal their names, leaving you exposed. If the Company had stayed strong the first three or four days there would be far less revealing going on and you would have been in a much stronger position.

Knowing who you were I thought you gained powers from people who were lynched - however the way you were asking to be scanned I presume you inherited Ardent's power, is that right?

I actually laughed when I saw neon duke the lynching over. I was just trying to figure out any way possible for him to survive and couldn't think of anything. The only thing I could think of was if he knew Mr.W's end the deadline early ability ahead of time he could have put a conditional order in to vote someone and end the next day 1 minute after the previous deadline for a few free kills..

But even then I don't think he would have gotten far enough.

[Thomkal]

If I based all my votes on hunches right now, I'd be voting for you (Neon) for so doggedly pursuing me. Because if I am voted out, you are going to look very bad.

Ah if only had followed through with this! I was suspicious of Neon ever since we were up on the block together with Jackal. I kind of thought he was a bit more frantic than me in trying to get off the block, then the next day when he went after me time and again even after I kept pointing out that as a wolf I wouldn't have brought Ardent into the tiebreaker with 5 mins left to the deadline. And yes I really was trying to get me my vote in for Ardent when the slow internet connection got me.

But I was really kicking myself after I died and found out Neon was Sylar because I felt like I had found something about him when he hastily changed his reveal when I told him I'd put him to the test and use my then unrevaled power. He changed how his power worked when I did that. I should have pursued it then, but we had so many uncleared people to get to, I let it slide. Should have brought it up in the end game there before I died, sorry about that heroes. I should have more strongly urged us to vote Daddy Torgo instead of Mauboy that day too because I was almost 100% certain he was bad. But good job Neon in nearly getting away with the win.

Oh and sorry Clap for never believing you. :)

[Narcizo]

As for the game, jeheinz knows some of my thoughts regarding balance and such.. I think the game was fun and I enjoyed playing it. I think we (the heroes) just got extremely lucky the first 3 or so days so its hard to say what was imbalanced if anything. Its really tough as a GM to plan for the villagers just outright getting lucky like we did.

Yeah, it's pretty tough to tell how balanced the game was given the circumstances. It could have been very different if Ardent hadn't been lynched on the second day, and all that was required for that was for Ardent to be around before deadline. I think the game seemed pretty well balanced but having such very powerful roles does tend to make results a bit more random.

I still haven't really pinned down what it is about St Cronin's play that made me think he's a wolf, but it reminded me of the way he played in both other games where I've been a villager and both times he was a wolf. Maybe that's how he always plays. Stuff like asking leading questions in defence of someone is probably a prime indicator.

This game also reminded me that I love to invent complicated reasons for everything (luckily mostly while I was dead in this case). For example I was sure that Path was bad and had faked the attack to hide the fact that Lathum had been converted on day three. The truth was much simpler but, in a way, I prefer my Machiavelian take on things. On that note I wonder if the wolves could convert me by attacking me - I was thinking of the whole Nikki/Jessica thing. At one stage I'd convinced myself that they would. Because it's more complicated that way. :D

[Mr. Wednesday]

I actually laughed when I saw neon duke the lynching over. I was just trying to figure out any way possible for him to survive and couldn't think of anything. The only thing I could think of was if he knew Mr.W's end the deadline early ability ahead of time he could have put a conditional order in to vote someone and end the next day 1 minute after the previous deadline for a few free kills..

But even then I don't think he would have gotten far enough.

I think there were too many people left. He could run off three that way, but there were still 10 of us remaining. It would have been a slick endgame if the total had gone down to seven, though.

[Alan T]

Yeah, it's pretty tough to tell how balanced the game was given the circumstances. It could have been very different if Ardent hadn't been lynched on the second day, and all that was required for that was for Ardent to be around before deadline. I think the game seemed pretty well balanced but having such very powerful roles does tend to make results a bit more random.

I still haven't really pinned down what it is about St Cronin's play that made me think he's a wolf, but it reminded me of the way he played in both other games where I've been a villager and both times he was a wolf. Maybe that's how he always plays. Stuff like asking leading questions in defence of someone is probably a prime indicator.

This game also reminded me that I love to invent complicated reasons for everything (luckily mostly while I was dead in this case). For example I was sure that Path was bad and had faked the attack to hide the fact that Lathum had been converted on day three. The truth was much simpler but, in a way, I prefer my Machiavelian take on things. On that note I wonder if the wolves could convert me by attacking me - I was thinking of the whole Nikki/Jessica thing. At one stage I'd convinced myself that they would. Because it's more complicated that way. :D


Yeah.. out of everyone I play WW with, I tend to end up being convinced St.Cronin is a wolf far more often than anyone else for some reason. I've had some really bad games where I was just as confident as I was this game that he was bad, only to end up finding out he was good. I just got lucky this time I guess.

[Narcizo]

Ah if only had followed through with this! I was suspicious of Neon ever since we were up on the block together with Jackal.


I think getting the vicious wolf was probably a better result then getting Sylar at the time.

I was finding it very frustrating when Neon was recounting stuff that I was supposed to have told him over PM I must say. I was thinking "Why would I tell him that when I'm not even sure if he's good or not". I actually cheered when Hoops and Mr W (two people I was suspicious of) finally put it together and voted for Neon.

[Thomkal]

I still thought it was looking pretty good for us heroes after I died, numbers were on our side, and our seer was still alive, but I thought it might have gone all down the tube after mauboy's duke power on barkeep, plus Render and Schmidty not able to get actions in with the suspicion that then caused.

I still don't really understand the mauboy action there. Alan had cleared Barkeep, and I think Barkeep said he was the bodyguard at some point. Taking out DT would have gone a long way towards clearing you. I really would have needed some strong convincing not to vote out mauboy at that point, so probably it waa a good thing I was dead. :)

[jeheinz72]

. On that note I wonder if the wolves could convert me by attacking me - I was thinking of the whole Nikki/Jessica thing. At one stage I'd convinced myself that they would. Because it's more complicated that way. :D

Since the game started out as 17:6 ratio I only built in one conversion mechanism, involving claphamsa. If Claire (hoops) died, clap would then have the option of

A) Staying a Hero
B) Joining the company
C) Becoming a Double agent (he'd join the company for 2 whole days and then switch back)

[Thomkal]

Oh the one thing I didn't like about my defend power was that it told me nothing. I had to ask Jeheinz if he had received my PM the only night I used it, and he told me then I wouldn't get any information from it, not even any word if I had been attacked or not. So I felt it was somewhat useless when I could spy every night instead.

[Narcizo]

I still thought Path was bad right up until Render scanned him. And I wasn't 100% sure after that either. I always think Path is bad though.

[Narcizo]

C) Becoming a Double agent (he'd join the company for 2 whole days and then switch back)

Interesting. How would that work? He'd presumably know who all the wolves are and could reveal them in that case.

[Alan T]

I still thought Path was bad right up until Render scanned him. And I wasn't 100% sure after that either. I always think Path is bad though.


I had it all figured out in my head one day driving home from somewhere. I put together all of the pieces that if Lathum was bad what would it mean... I realized Lathum being bad meant

Night 1 is when Lathum likely did the night kill
The distrust I had for Claphasma was likely unwarranted just for being HRG and at least 70-30 he was good as he said he was (but something I had planned at some point possibly scanning his power in case I was still alive)
That night 3 wasn't a sylar kill and thus the company must have attacked someone
Path claiming being attacked by someone flying seemed to fit in pretty well which lead to me thinking DT was bad.

I think i could see how the company would get frustrated in this game though.. Even if we hadn't gotten lucky and things had played out differently there were so many people who had the possibility of protecting themselves at night (Hoops, Path, Schmidty, THomkal, Neon, Olie, am I missing anyone?) or people who could have possibly been protected by someone else (Barkeep, ?) that it was probably pretty frustrating trying to figure out how to widdle that down a bit.

[jeheinz72]

Interesting. How would that work? He'd presumably know who all the wolves are and could reveal them in that case.

Yeah, he would've only been allowed to overtly out one company member per two days after the converting back.

[hoopsguy]

The justice is swift on Day Nine, people apparently have an early tee time.

Actually, a flight to catch :)

[Greyroofoo]

W00t! I finally live through a game!

[Narcizo]

I had it all figured out in my head one day driving home from somewhere. I put together all of the pieces that if Lathum was bad what would it mean... I realized Lathum being bad meant


I had it all worked out in my head as well. Path fakes being the victim of a night attack on day three to hide the fact that the company has converted someone and, knowing that there are going to be some flyers, says that it was a flying attack to set up DT/Schmidty. When they both come up good he can always say that it must have been Sylar.

My way is better than reality.

[Barkeep49]

I agree that there were reasons not to duke me. I'd revealed as BG and Alan had verified that I'd attempted to use my BG power. That said there was still a great deal of suspicion about me so I don't think it was the worst duking. But I really hate being duked and think I might not include one in my next game just cause how frustrating it can be to be taken out like that.

[Thomkal]

Oh and something I felt might have been a bit unbalanced in favor of the heroes was the search and find then PM. It kind of allowed us to clear some people based on the fact that we had to have certain people in the game. I think it might have been more fair if either that ability was not in the game, or powers were not revealed upon death. And I was disappointed when I didn't get PM abilities with my family. ;)

[jeheinz72]

I agree that there were reasons not to duke me. I'd revealed as BG and Alan had verified that I'd attempted to use my BG power. That said there was still a great deal of suspicion about me so I don't think it was the worst duking. But I really hate being duked and think I might not include one in my next game just cause how frustrating it can be to be taken out like that.

Yeah, but it's so money when it's used correctly (change a villager lynch to a wolf).

[jeheinz72]

Oh and something I felt might have been a bit unbalanced in favor of the heroes was the search and find then PM. It kind of allowed us to clear some people based on the fact that we had to have certain people in the game. I think it might have been more fair if either that ability was not in the game, or powers were not revealed upon death. And I was disappointed when I didn't get PM abilities with my family. ;)

Yeah, that's probably the thing I would change more than anything. My grand plan was that amidst all of these search and finds were going to be cases of bad guys talking to good guys. But Olie dying quickly negated one. NFG poorly executing it was another, though I think Neon's ability to do so with Jackal bought him a bit of favor/time.

I'd probably lessen that a bit and maybe only let Parkman do it. But it just seemed to fit well with the show's point of view because for a lot of the characters you're almost always seeing them in unison (Hiro/Ando, Claire/Noah)

[Alan T]

I agree that there were reasons not to duke me. I'd revealed as BG and Alan had verified that I'd attempted to use my BG power. That said there was still a great deal of suspicion about me so I don't think it was the worst duking. But I really hate being duked and think I might not include one in my next game just cause how frustrating it can be to be taken out like that.


I actually never saw you protect anyone. All I did was scan your power/ability and it had the bodyguard ability pretty much like you had described it.. and the way the role was written, it obviously was for Mr.Linderman.

I wasn't necessarily convinced at the onset that you wern't company, but I knew 100% you wern't Sylar and after a little further thinking figured you likely wern't company either (I couldn't think of many reasons for them to have a role specifically for bodyguard). But I had to play it off like I witnessed you protecting someone to not out my other ability too early. I didn't think anyone would care enough about killing me for my spying power.. but if they knew I could also verify power/abilities I would think that would have made me a target.

I actually chose to spy on people the first few nights, figuring I was more interested in what people were doing while I didn't have any idea of who they were. I think that was a misplay on my part, and from the onset i should have been scanning people's powers instead. In the end I didn't hardly get sqwat from my power.. the only thing I did get was the ability to press Schmidty about what he was doing on the night he spied on Lathum. Forcing him to reveal gave us the information we needed to piece together that Lathum was bad.

[Thomkal]

I still thought Path was bad right up until Render scanned him. And I wasn't 100% sure after that either. I always think Path is bad though.

I was unsure about Path for a while there but as we got closer to the end of the game, it just seemed more likely that if Path was telling the truth about the attack on him, Nathan (DT) had to be his attempted killer. Powers from the game pretty closely shadowed the powers from the show, and Nathan was the only one left who could fly.

[Thomkal]

Since the game started out as 17:6 ratio I only built in one conversion mechanism, involving claphamsa. If Claire (hoops) died, clap would then have the option of

A) Staying a Hero
B) Joining the company
C) Becoming a Double agent (he'd join the company for 2 whole days and then switch back)

that would have been pretty wild if that had happened.

[Thomkal]

Oh I had a question for the Company-why wait so long to take Alan out?

[Thomkal]

I had it all figured out in my head one day driving home from somewhere. I put together all of the pieces that if Lathum was bad what would it mean... I realized Lathum being bad meant

Night 1 is when Lathum likely did the night kill
The distrust I had for Claphasma was likely unwarranted just for being HRG and at least 70-30 he was good as he said he was (but something I had planned at some point possibly scanning his power in case I was still alive)
That night 3 wasn't a sylar kill and thus the company must have attacked someone
Path claiming being attacked by someone flying seemed to fit in pretty well which lead to me thinking DT was bad.

I think i could see how the company would get frustrated in this game though.. Even if we hadn't gotten lucky and things had played out differently there were so many people who had the possibility of protecting themselves at night (Hoops, Path, Schmidty, THomkal, Neon, Olie, am I missing anyone?) or people who could have possibly been protected by someone else (Barkeep, ?) that it was probably pretty frustrating trying to figure out how to widdle that down a bit.

Yeah I agree there did seem to be a lot of protection out there. But it came at a cost of not being able to use powers like spying that could have broken the game open. Did seem like a lot of spy/seer powers too I guess.

[Neon_Chaos]

My 3 names list. I had to submit these before 4 PM EST. YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO DO SO WHEN 4 PM EST IS 5 AM PHILIPPINE TIME!?!?!?

Night 1, no powers gained: Render, Lathum, GRF.

Night 2, no powers gained: The jackal, hoopsguy, Barkeep49 - I could have let the Jackal die via lynch and taken his abilities, but it came down to a hunch I had about AE, the same as Alan did. This cleared me of being Company when AE turned out to be evil.

Night 3, no powers gained: Thomkal, RendeR, Alan T

Night 4: Schmidty, Barkeep, nfg - This was the night I got my night kill. I got nfg's PM abilities. I also decided to Kill off Narcizo, who revealed as Niki, thinking she would have kill powers. She turned out to be the bodyguard and I got those extremely useless powers too. I was basically boiling down between a choice of revealing either as Lyle, Hana, or Sprague. When GRF indicated his ability to kill, and someone hinted about him being Sprague, I settled on Lyle, thinking that I could probably pass myself as a seer and use nfg's PM abilities. PM'ing with Narcizo also pretty much gave me a slight cover.

Night 5: Schmidty, Thomkal, Greyroofoo

Night 6: mauboy, DaddyTorgo, Thomkal - I PM'd jeheinz and talked about conceding the game, considering I basically had DT pegged down as the last Company member by process of elimination. He talked me out of it. I inherited DT's powers, useless at this point. I decided to kill off Thomkal, and inherited his seer powers. I basically now had a solid excuse to being the seer.

Night 7: DaddyTorgo, mauboy, Jackal - Mauboy didn't die. I would've gotted his ability and BK would still be alive. Oh well.

Night 8: hoopsguy, Schmidty, GRF - I got mauboy's Duke powers via the one-time mid-day kill due to the Company members being dead. The only scenario where I would win is if Schmidty duked the kill over to Path12. That would allow me to kill RendeR / Mr.W to bring the number of players down to 7. The next Day, I would use the Duke power to kill of hoops, and take Jackal's vote ability, bringing it to a 5-on-1 Combined with that and DT's -1 vote ability, I would have made it a 2:2 tie, and at least force the tiebreaker.

[jeheinz72]

Yeah I agree there did seem to be a lot of protection out there. But it came at a cost of not being able to use powers like spying that could have broken the game open. Did seem like a lot of spy/seer powers too I guess.

Yeah the funny part about that is, while I'd probably agree, the protecting (and even the spying to an extent) wholly didn't do much.

The one block was the attempt on path.
Spying netted some results though

Intercepting PM's I thought was kinda fun

[Neon_Chaos]

I think I played this game well. It just came down to a numbers game.

Good game, jeheinz.

[jeheinz72]

My 3 names list. I had to submit these before 4 PM EST. YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO DO SO WHEN 4 PM EST IS 5 AM PHILIPPINE TIME!?!?!?

Night 1, no powers gained: Render, Lathum, GRF.

Night 2, no powers gained: The jackal, hoopsguy, Barkeep49 - I could have let the Jackal die via lynch and taken his abilities, but it came down to a hunch I had about AE, the same as Alan did. This cleared me of being Company when AE turned out to be evil.

Night 3, no powers gained: Thomkal, RendeR, Alan T

Night 4: Schmidty, Barkeep, nfg - This was the night I got my night kill. I got nfg's PM abilities. I also decided to Kill off Narcizo, who revealed as Niki, thinking she would have kill powers. She turned out to be the bodyguard and I got those extremely useless powers too. I was basically boiling down between a choice of revealing either as Lyle, Hana, or Sprague. When GRF indicated his ability to kill, and someone hinted about him being Sprague, I settled on Lyle, thinking that I could probably pass myself as a seer and use nfg's PM abilities. PM'ing with Narcizo also pretty much gave me a slight cover.

Night 5: Schmidty, Thomkal, Greyroofoo

Night 6: mauboy, DaddyTorgo, Thomkal - I PM'd jeheinz and talked about conceding the game, considering I basically had DT pegged down as the last Company member by process of elimination. He talked me out of it. I inherited DT's powers, useless at this point. I decided to kill off Thomkal, and inherited his seer powers. I basically now had a solid excuse to being the seer.

Night 7: DaddyTorgo, mauboy, Jackal - Mauboy didn't die. I would've gotted his ability and BK would still be alive. Oh well.

Night 8: hoopsguy, Schmidty, GRF - I got mauboy's Duke powers via the one-time mid-day kill due to the Company members being dead. The only scenario where I would win is if Schmidty duked the kill over to Path12. That would allow me to kill RendeR / Mr.W to bring the number of players down to 7. The next Day, I would use the Duke power to kill of hoops, and take Jackal's vote ability, bringing it to a 5-on-1 Combined with that and DT's -1 vote ability, I would have made it a 2:2 tie, and at least force the tiebreaker.



That -1 from DT almost saved you the day you had to duke. It was 4-2. If one of those had bumped to 3 (or you to a 3) you would've had a shot at not having to use the duke that day.

[jeheinz72]

I think I played this game well. It just came down to a numbers game.

Good game, jeheinz.

Thanks, and yeah, I think you definitely did. You made the right call on the Jackal/AE thing. Getting yourself out of Company possibility was a worthy sacrifice for you there, no doubt.

I definitely think the order of finish lines up with how well I thought people played.

[mauchow]

Yeah, my bad on killing Barkeep. I just chose someone from the "Possible Sylar List" and tried figuring out who might be it. I chose the quietest player from the list and hoped it was right. Oh, well. I wish I took out DaddyT but it worked out just fine.

[mauchow]

And thank you, John.

[Narcizo]

I also decided to Kill off Narcizo, who revealed as Niki, thinking she would have kill powers.

I debated with myself whether I should reveal my power or not. In the end I thought it was better for the village not to do so as you killing me meant no useful power for you, and left the Company in the dark as well.

[Thomkal]

I think I played this game well. It just came down to a numbers game.

Good game, jeheinz.

Indeed you did Neon, the hunch you had with Ardent paid big dividends for a while there.

[Thomkal]

Yeah, my bad on killing Barkeep. I just chose someone from the "Possible Sylar List" and tried figuring out who might be it. I chose the quietest player from the list and hoped it was right. Oh, well. I wish I took out DaddyT but it worked out just fine.

Yeah hope I didn't come across too strongly there in wondering why you attacked Barkeep. I thought there was some reason to go with Barkeep at that point, but some better candidates than him. It all worked out for us heroes in the end, so who cares. :)

[Neon_Chaos]

That -1 from DT almost saved you the day you had to duke. It was 4-2. If one of those had bumped to 3 (or you to a 3) you would've had a shot at not having to use the duke that day.

Yeah, but it also came down to me not being here at deadline. :) I had some real life stuff come up. Heh.

[Neon_Chaos]

BTW

I cannot believe the Wolves let Alan live that long. Seriously.

[path12]

I still thought Path was bad right up until Render scanned him. And I wasn't 100% sure after that either. I always think Path is bad though.

I've noticed. :D

[hoopsguy]

I was really surprised that the group of Path, me, RendeR, and Schmidty were able to keep advancing for as long as we did. I felt like if we kept that core together we were going to be just about impossible for Sylar to disrupt at the end.

The Peter Petrelli role seemed a little too powerful. I thought he should have had some kind of weakness included as he started to absorp powers as a way to throttle him back.

The other challenge with this is that we were able to project which characters were likely to be in the show. That isn't something that happens with a normal WW game. If you were to run it again I would stick with the list of 31 roles, but randomize which ones are in it. If there is no Hiro, no Claire, then so what ... you take away an asset from the heroes that we were able to use down the stretch.

Neon - I love the bad guy revealing as "not powerful" during their fake reveals. In that respect the twerp brother was inspired, and I thought you did a pretty good job of making up why he had powers. I agree with others who have said you put out about the best game you could under the conditions.

I would be very interested in hearing what the complaints were from the good guy team about the game being unbalanced. I agree that it could have gone down very differently, but based on conversations around the powers in the game it sounds like we had at the very least a better than average chance of winning with this structure.

[path12]

I had no idea what my percentage chance was of living through a second attack, so when I dared Grey to go after me I was half hoping he was bluffing, but thought that if it worked it would pretty much take me off the suspicion list........which was a bit of a pipe dream as it turned out.

Good game, heinz. And just a stellar game by Alan. When you're on, you're on.

[jeheinz72]

I had no idea what my percentage chance was of living through a second attack, so when I dared Grey to go after me I was half hoping he was bluffing, but thought that if it worked it would pretty much take me off the suspicion list........which was a bit of a pipe dream as it turned out.

Good game, heinz. And just a stellar game by Alan. When you're on, you're on.

Thanks.

It was 40%, with a 20% shot at then getting clued in to your attacker

[jeheinz72]

I would be very interested in hearing what the complaints were from the good guy team about the game being unbalanced. I agree that it could have gone down very differently, but based on conversations around the powers in the game it sounds like we had at the very least a better than average chance of winning with this structure.

I forget who it was but it was early on in the game, naturally. Before things really rolled for the village

[SnDvls]

As the one of the first to reveal their role, if not the first, I take full credit for this win ;)

[SnDvls]

I don't think this game was unbalanced at all...heck I didn't even have any powers...just a spy & try to defend action.

[hoopsguy]

As the one of the first to reveal their role, if not the first, I take full credit for this win ;)

I thought you played a very solid game and was sad to see you killed when you were.

[SnDvls]

I thought you played a very solid game and was sad to see you killed when you were.

Thanks, I told heniz when I was killed that they probally were upset I was stirring up stuff for them.

the night before I was killed I spied on Alan a 2nd time to make sure he wasn't out "scouting" to kill you from my 1st spy of him. That when he followed Schmidty. I knew he was a hero at that point. The night I was killed I was going to spy on Mr. W as I wasn't sure he was good or not from the 1 or 2 PMs he sent...he was giving me the way wrong vibe.

Turns out he was good after all, but man did he throw me off from the PMs he sent.

[st.cronin]

I thought it was a fun game. My comments:

I don't think I've ever played a game as a wolf, and not voted for a wolf on day 1. Its a bad habit of mine.

No idea if the game was balanced or not, but as I read the rules, Neon did NOT know the company was. Given his victory condition, had he known who the company was, that would have tended to make the game more balanced, regardless of the other rules. Historically games where every villager has an ability tend to be very hard for the wolves to win, I think this is another data point in favor.

People have pointed out that ardent was not around at the deadline when he got lynched, but also I was not really around at all the day I was lynched, and most of the arguments put up against me were pathetic. Several people argued (innocently, as far as I can tell) that I had pushed for a no-lynch when ardent was on the block, which just wasn't true. I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WENT DOWN BETWEEN ALAN AND THOMKAL/PASS. That was a legitimate line of inquiry, I thought - and still do.

Also, I pushed to kill Schmidty on night 2, but the team went elsewhere for reasons which I never really understood.

The nfg reveal was more or less my idea, but nfg went off the script - the idea was for him to reveal his ability, and accuse greyroofoo of being Sylar. Every one of his posts after that reveal should have had some variant of the phrase "greyroofoo is sylar". Bringing Chief Rum into it made no sense to me, it looked like a clumsy attempt to gain trust.

[SnDvls]

dola - I actually played this game "balls to the wall"

I didn't have a powerful role so I thought if I was killed early I need to get out as much helpful info as I could, hence the quick role reveal. I kinda knew my time would come quick if I kept putting out info, but I'm glad in some small way it helped.

[SnDvls]

I've never really re-read a game before, but the pages just before & after AE was lynched are pretty interesting knowing what we know now.

just looking at the interactions kinda make you laugh.

[claphamsa]

Ah if only had followed through with this! I was suspicious of Neon ever since we were up on the block together with Jackal. I kind of thought he was a bit more frantic than me in trying to get off the block, then the next day when he went after me time and again even after I kept pointing out that as a wolf I wouldn't have brought Ardent into the tiebreaker with 5 mins left to the deadline. And yes I really was trying to get me my vote in for Ardent when the slow internet connection got me.

But I was really kicking myself after I died and found out Neon was Sylar because I felt like I had found something about him when he hastily changed his reveal when I told him I'd put him to the test and use my then unrevaled power. He changed how his power worked when I did that. I should have pursued it then, but we had so many uncleared people to get to, I let it slide. Should have brought it up in the end game there before I died, sorry about that heroes. I should have more strongly urged us to vote Daddy Torgo instead of Mauboy that day too because I was almost 100% certain he was bad. But good job Neon in nearly getting away with the win.

Oh and sorry Clap for never believing you. :)

:P

now remember nex time when im a wolf, and i say im a good guy that i am a good guy :)

[Barkeep49]

People have pointed out that ardent was not around at the deadline when he got lynched, but also I was not really around at all the day I was lynched, and most of the arguments put up against me were pathetic. Several people argued (innocently, as far as I can tell) that I had pushed for a no-lynch when ardent was on the block, which just wasn't true. I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WENT DOWN BETWEEN ALAN AND THOMKAL/PASS. That was a legitimate line of inquiry, I thought - and still do.

I agree with this and said as much at the time, which did me no favors in the trust department.

[Thomkal]

I don't understand all that stuff between Pass and Alan myself, so maybe Pass will chime in here. I think he saw something in the way Alan posted or what he was saying that made him think Alan was a wolf. When I joined up, I wanted nothing to do with their discussion, so I tried to distance myself from it. Kept coming up though for a while.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm not going to sit here and whine about "balance." IMO you play the hand you are dealt. We were dealt a rough hand though to start, with every villager having abilities and so many of them interlocking.

And that only got worse when we lost (arguably) our 2 most-valuable wolves first. If AE+Cronin had been the two that survived and Lathum and I had died early, it would have been a whole different game. What ended up happening was the 2 strongest wolves getting killed early, Lathum and I deciding to throw nfg under the bus to try to buy some trust for Lathum, and then basically sitting around waiting to be seen doing our night-kills (well I waited for that while Lathum intercepted PM's). After AE+Cronin died I pretty much said 'well that's the game in all likelhood."

As far as our night-kill reasoning - I'll still never know why we didn't take out Schmidty earlier, or Path earlier. To be honest, I felt that there was no way everyone would keep following Alan after the AE+Cronin nabs, that at some point someone would say "okay, that's enough of a good thing listening to Alan, let's go elsewhere for ideas."

Plus, after the debacles of the first 2 days really, I can't speak for Lathum, but to be frank, the amount of time I devoted to the game dropped way down, and I was sort of just of the mindset of "whatever...whoever we kill it's only a matter of time till we lose." It's fun to participate when you feel like you have a chance of winning, when you feel like you're 4th and 25 on your own 5 yard line and you're down 63-0 you really just want to kneel down and get to the end of the game.

Note: I was having a rough-week this past 2 weeks or so from a personal-life standpoint as well, so I'm sure that affected my "care factor" as well.

[Schmidty]

I will admit one thing: For having one of the most powerful WW roles ever, I did the least amount with it. I did my best, I really did, but nothing really worked.

[The Jackal]

Great game, everyone. By the way, I lied a little about my role. I said I only had the power to switch a vote if I was tied or leading the vote count at the deadline, but the truth is that I could've switched anyone's vote on any day. I just figured if the wolves/Sylar knew that, they'd target me faster. Worked out pretty well. :D

Funny that I was locked in a three-way tie with the cunning wolf and sylar on day 1. I'll take full credit for killing AE. ;)

Hell of a first game (here, anyways) Heinz.

[The Jackal]

Day 2, rather.

[Alan T]

I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WENT DOWN BETWEEN ALAN AND THOMKAL/PASS. That was a legitimate line of inquiry, I thought - and still do.



For interest of full disclosure, from my end of it there wasn't anything ever up between me and Pass. I played it up a bit the first day just because I learned long ago if the wolves think you might be an eventual lynch target in the next few days they will leave you alone at night for a bit. I presented to Pass ideas that I felt were valid, and played up any disagreement a bit.

The next day, Pass seemingly to me seemed to be less confronting of my ideas and in several parts asked my opinion on things. To me that meant he must have had some role which he used the first night to follow or spy on me or something and felt better about me for some reason. I didn't really know if he was good or bad, but leaned towards him being good at that point just slightly. The bigger thing I did there though was give a public front that I felt things were ok between us. When Pass left the game though, it kind of threw a wrench into things because it created some speculation.. but thats what set me off a bit.. I felt some people were playing it up a bit much, and it was that interaction that made me feel Ardent and Cronin were tied together somehow.

I made the comment on day 2 that I felt that Cronin, Ardent, DaddyTorgo and NFG were allied, but it was mostly tongue in cheek.. I actually didn't honestly think they were all on the same team.. but I suspected Cronin and Ardent of it. It was just the way NFG did the greyfooroo reveal and how he went about it while Cronin was on the line for the lynch that made me feel like I should come after him next. I actually felt I gave Daddytorgo a good bit of latitude thinking surely not all four of them were wolves, but eventually decided that it just made the most sense if he was also.

I still think we got lucky in a big way.. I was going mostly off of gut feeling with Ardent and Cronin, and I've been wrong on those type of gut feelings far more often than I was right. I guess this is my example of a broken clock is right two times a day.

[Lathum]

We bailed out on killing Schmidty because he had mentioned somewhere that he trusted me or something.

The reason we didn't kill Alan sooner is because there were so many roles that could seemingly protect themselves or someone else we were certain Alan would be protected.

IMO having at least 3 players who can't be night killed, so many people who have seer abilities and so many that have protect abilities makes in unbalanced.

Put yourselves in our shoes, it nakes it impossible to find an easy night kill

[Poli]

:rolleyes:

[nfg22]

I think with mutiple people who could watch made it hard on us. Also I sucked as a wolf. So blame me for their demise.

[mauchow]

I nominate me as the team MVP for clearing shit up.

[Narcizo]

and most of the arguments put up against me were pathetic. Several people argued (innocently, as far as I can tell) that I had pushed for a no-lynch when ardent was on the block, which just wasn't true. I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WENT DOWN BETWEEN ALAN AND THOMKAL/PASS. That was a legitimate line of inquiry, I thought - and still do.


I think most villagers would leave it alone as being a bit embarrassing and not really anything worth getting stirring up. It's clearly no real indication of either being a wolf at that stage of the game (later and it could be a sign of game-related stress). I guess it's probably pretty common wolf practice but you seemed to be setting up an Alan - cleared - then Pass lynch move, much the same as you or DT tried in Big City with Blade then hoops. But the arguments against you that I paid most heed to were that you made a couple of subtle attempts to try and divert an Ardent lynch the day before but didn't move your own vote. Barkeep tried to move votes off of you the next day but he did it in a far more overt way and that actually comes off as being much less wolfy in my opinion.

[st.cronin]

I think with mutiple people who could watch made it hard on us. Also I sucked as a wolf. So blame me for their demise.

You did ok, and I feel like you'll do much better the next time out.

[Neon_Chaos]

st.cronin, are you still intent on lynching hoops as a villager? :)

[st.cronin]

But the arguments against you that I paid most heed to were that you made a couple of subtle attempts to try and divert an Ardent lynch the day before but didn't move your own vote.

This is actually not true, my mentality that day was "focus on no-lynch as a bad play." To the extent that it is true, its a misread of what I was saying that day. I would never, ever play a lynch that way that early.

[st.cronin]

st.cronin, are you still intent on lynching hoops as a villager? :)

That ship has sailed.

[Passacaglia]

For interest of full disclosure, from my end of it there wasn't anything ever up between me and Pass. I played it up a bit the first day just because I learned long ago if the wolves think you might be an eventual lynch target in the next few days they will leave you alone at night for a bit. I presented to Pass ideas that I felt were valid, and played up any disagreement a bit.

The next day, Pass seemingly to me seemed to be less confronting of my ideas and in several parts asked my opinion on things. To me that meant he must have had some role which he used the first night to follow or spy on me or something and felt better about me for some reason. I didn't really know if he was good or bad, but leaned towards him being good at that point just slightly. The bigger thing I did there though was give a public front that I felt things were ok between us. When Pass left the game though, it kind of threw a wrench into things because it created some speculation.. but thats what set me off a bit.. I felt some people were playing it up a bit much, and it was that interaction that made me feel Ardent and Cronin were tied together somehow.

I don't think there was ever anything 'up' either -- I mean, all I did was put a Day 1 vote on him, and I did it before I knew we could vote No Lynch. Once people realized we could do that, I figured I might as well keep my vote where it was as a data point. I figured that Alan was smart enough not to get as defensive as he did, if he were a wolf. Plus, he backed off almost as soon as I hinted that I had spy powers -- in post 236, I was replying to a confusing post he made, and I switched up the person of my sentence -- I said 'if *I* can spy' ... he wasn't talking about me directly at all in his post, but I answered it as if he were. It was shortly after that that he started saying he thought he knew my role, so I thought he picked up on that. But mostly, I never thought anything was going on -- just all I had to go on for Day 1.

[Neon_Chaos]

I will still claim a small semi-victory by outlasting the Wolves.

[RendeR]

I claim the ultimate victory, not only did I survive my first ever WW game but I was the SEER!!!

How often does the seer ever live through a game??

[Neon_Chaos]

I claim the ultimate victory, not only did I survive my first ever WW game but I was the SEER!!!

How often does the seer ever live through a game??

Well, you were one of many seers. :)

[hoopsguy]

I claim victory for being alive in this game past Day 4 without the "wait a minute, Hoops must be evil if he is still around!" argument ever surfacing. It was refreshing.

I think this could be the start of a new WW thread - personal WW victories. It would be like the antithesis of the "I died early" thread.

[Neon_Chaos]

I think this could be the start of a new WW thread - personal WW victories. It would be like the antithesis of the "I died early" thread.

Putting a positive spin on playing WW is a good thing.

[RendeR]

Well, you were one of many seers. :)


I was the only true seer. no one else could diferentiate all three factions, most everyone that could see anything had a very specific purpose or target so they don't count ;)

[Neon_Chaos]

I was the only true seer. no one else could diferentiate all three factions, most everyone that could see anything had a very specific purpose or target so they don't count ;)

Always with the details... ;)

[hoopsguy]

I'm OK with no lynch, but a little worried that we could be giving up two kills per night - one to Company, one to Sylar. The kills to Sylar, if it follows the show, equate to him gaining powers. For better or worse, people we lynch don't get eaten by Sylar. And we gain no info from a player on the hot seat if we vote no lynch. No matter the format, werewolf is always about gaining information. Do we really gain more information by not applying any pressure for one day in the thread rather than taking a shot at a bad guy with a largely random Day 1 vote?

Those are the reasons to go against the trend. Just making sure that someone is actually representing them in the thread before we all go down the no lynch path.

Lathum, I don't know how it is going to work. If I had to guess then I would think the Company kills every night and Sylar every other one while he is out there, but we (villagers) will all get to find out together over the next couple of days.

I just think that people are jumping on the "no lynch" idea pretty quickly. And I generally don't like bandwagons. So I wanted to at least present the opposing viewpoint, which I felt had been under-represented up to this point.

I'm probably going to put a vote on someone rather than go "no lynch", even if it is appears to be futile.

Lathum, I'm of the opinion that we need to get information - just like an other game of werewolf. Applying pressure is one way to do it. Runaway "no lynch" decisions is not a way to apply pressure to anyone.

Is the pressure applied on Day 1 often misdirected? Yep, especially when the final votes come in. But I'm not wild about the idea of foregoing discussion on players for a day, even if the end result is going to be "No Lynch". In fact, I would much rather see a tight vote - with or without "No Lynch" as one of the options available for voting.

Player A = 7 votes
Player B = 7 votes
No Lynch = 8 votes

That works just fine for me.

No Lynch = 20 votes
Player A = 2 votes
Player B = 1 vote

That doesn't work for me at all, in terms of getting value from the day.


It didn't take long at all to find this - these posts are from Day 1 of the Heroes game. I guess you can argue tone, but I don't think that I was all that over-the-top this time around. But I think I'm pretty consistent in my arguments on "No Lynch" - and Heroes had a ruleset that I thought was more compelling for "No Lynch" than this game.

I'll keep pulling up from other threads if there really is a belief that I'm pushing some kind of different agenda this game than others. But if people really want me to do that it is going to have to happen tonight as I don't think I'll be able to do much post diving tomorrow from work.