WW XCIII - Mine Wars - Battle of Blair Mountain - SYMPATHIZERS WIN!!!

[Autumn]

I'm not sure there's anything else we can do before the night deadline. I agree, if someone has an angle to thier skill they haven't revealed, maybe we could cook something up. Otherwise I can't imagine what we can do differently. We can hope that maybe succeeding on some of the tasks gives us something.

[Autumn]

Going all on the mission seems kind of crazy to me. Sure, yesterday it woudl have worked out. But today we would have lost a camp (which not only costs us a day but may have other bad effects) and gained some unknown number of unknown items. Some of them would be in wolf hands, most likely, and we wouldn't know who was lying about gaining one or not, who was lying about what their items did.

Most likely there was a limited number of items and so some limit to how many people it would be useful to send. I don't see any reason to ever blow off the camp jobs completely. It seems contrary to the purpose of the game and our winning conditions.

[Lathum]

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2203/annerobthumb210x210.jpg (http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=annerobthumb210x210.jpg)

You are the weakest link

goodbye.

[Danny]

The wolves purposely used their action after the mission. I really think the wolves wanted to avoid having us all go on the mission and instead focus on work. That's why I am looking at Barkeep. He voiced against those who went on the mission early and completely ignored my idea and started the run on everyone working.

After we head that direction, I'm sure villagers joined in making sure everyone worked because at that point it was the right call.

[Barkeep49]

Ok I pulled a Schmidty and completely skipped reading pages 13 and 14, as I will never be caught up otherwise. I feel like so much of the information is out of our hands and in control of the wolves. I think there are whole mechanics at play that we have no real clue about and it makes figuring out WTF is going on pretty damn difficult.

[Barkeep49]

The wolves purposely used their action after the mission. I really think the wolves wanted to avoid having us all go on the mission and instead focus on work. That's why I am looking at Barkeep. He voiced against those who went on the mission early and completely ignored my idea and started the run on everyone working.

After we head that direction, I'm sure villagers joined in making sure everyone worked because at that point it was the right call.
By the time I did my work, two others had done so. I become vocally less enamored of the missions yesterday based on the results. Winning the camps is essential to winning the game and that's where my focus is. If you don't like it, you're going to have a chance to kill me tomorrow.

[Danny]

By the time I did my work, two others had done so. I become vocally less enamored of the missions yesterday based on the results. Winning the camps is essential to winning the game and that's where my focus is. If you don't like it, you're going to have a chance to kill me tomorrow.

But I thought you knew that ahead of time and you switched gears pretty quickly. And there was definite upside to us all going on the mission and potentially getting an item.

[Lathum]

Obviously, since he is not here, he will be unable to work, whether he comes back or not

can we bust him out?

[Abe Sargent]

can we bust him out?

This isn;t the wild west and you aren't doing illegal things just to do them. You want to break out an arsonist with picks and shovels? That's wrong on so many levels.

[jeheinz72]

Yeah but it'd be fun.

[Lathum]

so it looks like there is no possible way to win the camp. We really get no info either because we have no idea if someones fake work order caused us to fail. Kind of crappy IMO

[Autumn]

The wolves purposely used their action after the mission. I really think the wolves wanted to avoid having us all go on the mission and instead focus on work. That's why I am looking at Barkeep. He voiced against those who went on the mission early and completely ignored my idea and started the run on everyone working.

After we head that direction, I'm sure villagers joined in making sure everyone worked because at that point it was the right call.

I'm not sure I'm following your thinking here, so let me see if I've got it straight. You think the Sympathizers knew they could keep us from completing our camp work today regardless of how many went on the mission. Therefore they wanted us to stay away from the mission so we didn't collect any items. Is that right?

[Lathum]

Ok I pulled a Schmidty and completely skipped reading pages 13 and 14, as I will never be caught up otherwise. I feel like so much of the information is out of our hands and in control of the wolves. I think there are whole mechanics at play that we have no real clue about and it makes figuring out WTF is going on pretty damn difficult.

I agree and it makes it very frustrating.

[jeheinz72]

Should we maybe still be smart and line up our actions as well as possible? I'd still like to get an idea of what a failed mission gives us, information-wise.

[Autumn]

I think we should make sure we've got the right amount on two of the jobs. I'm not sure that it matters which.

[Danny]

I'm not sure I'm following your thinking here, so let me see if I've got it straight. You think the Sympathizers knew they could keep us from completing our camp work today regardless of how many went on the mission. Therefore they wanted us to stay away from the mission so we didn't collect any items. Is that right?

Yes

[Autumn]

Well, that doesn't make me suspicious of Barkeep then, it makes me suspicious of the Searchers who wouldn't switch back onto the jobs when it was obvious we had only a one unit surplus there. If they had switched back we would have still made the camp.

[The Jackal]

I'm sorry I didn't switch back but 1 person seemingly wouldn't have made a difference anyways.. I'd like to hear from my fellow searchers.

[Autumn]

I suppose you're right, Danny, though that it's better for the wolves if we try to win both the mission and the camp and then fail on the camp. Still, if I was a wolf I wouldn't have protested too much about your plan since I think it still suits them fairly well. They have a chance of picking up a few items themselves and the villagers give them a free day.

[Abe Sargent]

A yellow dog contract is one in which a clause makes it illegal for the worker to join a union. Yellow dog contracts were the default contracts of all mines in WV.

[Danny]

I suppose you're right, Danny, though that it's better for the wolves if we try to win both the mission and the camp and then fail on the camp. Still, if I was a wolf I wouldn't have protested too much about your plan since I think it still suits them fairly well. They have a chance of picking up a few items themselves and the villagers give them a free day.

That's true

[Danny]

BTW, am I the only one skipping the grey posts and trying to learn as little as possible?

[Poli]

RendeR and Poli really haven't said anything since they joined the mission, have they. Input guys?
:Waves:
Will input as soon as I'm finished catching up.

[Danny]

That's true

Still, having 13-15 villagers running around with weapons or other items probably was a bit scary to the wolves.

[Poli]

This isn;t the wild west and you aren't doing illegal things just to do them. You want to break out an arsonist with picks and shovels? That's wrong on so many levels.
How about a shotgun that I found? Would that turn the tables? ;)

[Poli]

That's right, gentleman. Poli found a gun.

[Autumn]

True. Although we're as likely to stab each other than do much useful.

[Poli]

http://z.about.com/d/lost/1/0/8/k/-/-/Sawyer.jpg

[Poli]

Bet I won't be the object of a night kill now. Bring it, sympathizers.

[Autumn]

That's great, Poli. I don't know what the item description is, but I know that any of us Hunters can get a bonus on our skills if we have a gun. Hopefully something tomorrow will play into that.

[TheNorm]

I know a hunter could definitely use that! :)

[Poli]

A yellow dog contract is one in which a clause makes it illegal for the worker to join a union. Yellow dog contracts were the default contracts of all mines in WV.
As much as I joked about this stuff early on, it does remind me of my labor law class I took a few years back. Probably half the class was dealing with the history of unions in the US. I definitely remember the yellow dog contracts part.

[Poli]

Yeah, I figure I'm likely to have to hand it over...but it can be used in defense of night kills, I knowz that!

[Poli]

Wait, abe speak:

I noes that.

[Danny]

Poli's got a gun
Poli's got a gun
His whole worlds come undone
From looking straight at the sun
When did his Dubb93 do?
What did he put you through?

[Poli]

Based on my PM, which thanks a lot Abe for choosing the subject "SHOTGUN"...my initial reaction is I'm getting a shotgun question or someone pulled a shotgun on me.

I digress. Based on the PM, I think there's another skill out there that I haven't seen listed...patrolling.

[Danny]

Messed up the one lyric so reposted since I couldn't edit

[TheNorm]

Poli's got a gun
Poli's got a gun
His whole worlds come undone
From looking straight at the sun
When did his Dubb93 do?
What did he put you through?

:eek:

Knowing what that song is about...eew.

;)

[Autumn]

I think you need to do some catching up, Poli. lol

[Poli]

Why's that? I thought I was all caught up. Are there secret threads I don't know about? ;)

[Autumn]

USFL and ChiefRum are both specialists in Patrolling and thus did all the Patrolling work today.

[The Jackal]

Also, Poli, you missed the whole couple of hours where we were deliberating the merit of having anyone on the mission at all.

[jeheinz72]

Poli's got a gun
Poli's got a gun
His whole worlds come undone
From looking straight at the sun
What did his Dubb93 do?
What did he put you through?

They say when EF was arrested
They found him underneath a train
But man he had it comin
Now that poli's got a gun
*SHE* ain't never gonna be the sa...aaaaa..aaaaaaaaaaaaaa....aaaaaammmmmmeee

[dubb93]

I would have liked the wolves abilities kinda spelled out b/c had we known they had day abilities such as the arrest we may have choosen a different strategy.

With all that said I wonder at what point the wolves attempt to bribe(and where exactly they get the money at). Also anything else they could do with that money?

[jeheinz72]

Alrighty folks. I'm outta here.

[Passacaglia]

BTW, am I the only one skipping the grey posts and trying to learn as little as possible?

I'm not skipping them, but I do get annoyed when I see there's a new post at a time with a lot of tension, and find one of them. :P

Anyway, Poli, is your shotgun only useful for patrolling? I'm just wondering if 'shotgun' is different from the 'gun' that Autumn, TheNorm, and I can use.

[dubb93]

I also wonder how the bribe process works and what percentage of us have low bribe points compared to the ones who are immune.

If it fails could we ID a wolf?

[Poli]

I'm not skipping them, but I do get annoyed when I see there's a new post at a time with a lot of tension, and find one of them. :P

Anyway, Poli, is your shotgun only useful for patrolling? I'm just wondering if 'shotgun' is different from the 'gun' that Autumn, TheNorm, and I can use.
Patrolling, hunting, and defense against night kills.

[Poli]

Also, Poli, you missed the whole couple of hours where we were deliberating the merit of having anyone on the mission at all.
I wouldn't say I "missed" it.

Oops, wrong game.

[Passacaglia]

Patrolling, hunting, and defense against night kills.

Gotcha. Pretty weird, since all the hunters have mentioned guns, but I'd never heard the patrollers say anything about it. Could just be that we're a more talkative bunch, I guess.

[Poli]

Maybe.

[Abe Sargent]

I would have liked the wolves abilities kinda spelled out b/c had we known they had day abilities such as the arrest we may have choosen a different strategy.

With all that said I wonder at what point the wolves attempt to bribe(and where exactly they get the money at). Also anything else they could do with that money?

The sympathizers can use the full force of the law against you. They can also go outside of the law against you as well.

[claphamsa]

I wouldn't say I "missed" it.

Oops, wrong game.


lolerskates!

[Danny]

This is a tough game with the lack of information.

[The Jackal]

This is a tough game with the lack of information.

If the wolves have things they can do we didn't know about, it'd make sense that we'll have things to employ they didn't know about. I doubt Abe would balance all the hidden information one-sidedly.

[dubb93]

If the wolves have things they can do we didn't know about, it'd make sense that we'll have things to employ they didn't know about. I doubt Abe would balance all the hidden information one-sidedly.

Well damnit, whoever can do whatever they can do needs to do it then, otherwise we are going to be 1 unit short tonight.

[dubb93]

Hi path, care to tell us who killed you?

[Autumn]

Well, I was hoping for something noteworthy when I got back. I guess there's nothing to do but wait now. Perhaps we should start tossing out suspects now, or discuss strategies for tomorrow.

[Danny]

Something I do find interesting is who the wolves chose to send to jail. EF seems like an odd choice over Lathum and I who have been more vocal this game. Or for that matter over the other players like CR and USFL who have a skill times three. I think looking at those who have 3 times skills today would be a good place to consider looking for a wolf (and yeah that includes me)

[Passacaglia]

WORK ON FOOD DISTRIBUTION

[Passacaglia]

There's still 'room' for me to do that, right?

[Autumn]

Yeah I think that's where you were needed, Pass, although with EagleFan out we're probably not going to make it there.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm here!

[Danny]

Hey DT, where does DT need to put his point?

[DaddyTorgo]

what can i do to aid us?

[Danny]

patrol - CR (x3), USFL (x3) (6/6)
food distribution - Lathum (x3), BK, PB, heinz, dubb, Autumn, TheNorm, Danny (x3) (12/15)
organization - clap, ntn (x3), Schmidty (?) (7/8)

mission - Poli, RendeR, Jackal

idle - Pass, DT

arrested - EF

thats trouble

DT, did you reveal your specialty? If it's none of those, then I guess work on Organization

[Passacaglia]

Yeah I think that's where you were needed, Pass, although with EagleFan out we're probably not going to make it there.

I figured -- I just wanted to do something and not over-commit anywhere.

[Danny]

Were probably screwed today though because EagleFan was arrested and his skill points won't go through.

[Autumn]

I think we need DT on Organization.

[DaddyTorgo]

yep i'll go on organization

WORK ON ORGANIZATION

[Autumn]

With DT on Organization I think we have both that and Patrolling covered. Whether that matters is unclear, but might as well try.

So, Poli found a shotgun. Jackal found a weapon. Render, did you find anything?

[dubb93]

Render, did you find anything?

I'm guessing he found what it's like to cause us to lose Drawdy Creek.

[Abe Sargent]

Currently doing math

[dubb93]

Currently doing math

That was meant to be a joke btw RendeR forgot the smiley.

Doing math on what?

[Abe Sargent]

That was meant to be a joke btw RendeR forgot the smiley.

Doing math on what?


To verify that today failed. I believe so.

[dubb93]

Oh shit, lol, that was deadline. I'm an idiot.

[dubb93]

Deadlines just don't feel like deadlines without a lynch vote I guess.

[Abe Sargent]

Although you completed the Patrol task easily enough, in order to keep the company away from the strike camps, the other tasks were not so easy. (6/6)

Food distribution looked like it was to be a success, but when one of you was arrested, you just didn;t have enough to complete this task. The striking miners at the various camps throughout the creek simply did not get enough food. (13/15)

You were able to get the movement organized well enough (8/8) so you completed two out of your three goals here, but that is not enough, and Drawdy Creek remains unconverted.

The double punch of the area being prepared by the companies being informed ahead of time plus the arrest of EagleFan for arson was enough to keep you down.

At the next place, you promise to rededicate yourself.

You go to sleep for the day.

Night Two due at 1:00 am.

[dubb93]

Someone want to do the math and make sure no one faked?

[Abe Sargent]

Deadlines just don't feel like deadlines without a lynch vote I guess.

Tomorrow it will feel like a a real deadline then.

[Autumn]

Well, no surprises there. At least 1) we get a breakdown of each task, which is good to know. 2) There didn't seem to be any lingering result of having failed other than failing.

I wonder if the town having been aware of us coming is a result of a Sympathizer action yesterday. Perhaps each day they have something they can do, whether it be forewarn the next town, arrest somebody, etc.

[Lathum]

Someone want to do the math and make sure no one faked?

I haven't done the math but I see no reason anyone would fake when it was pretty likely we were doomed anyway

[Autumn]

The numbers look right to me, Dubb, according to my math.

[dubb93]

Well, no surprises there. At least 1) we get a breakdown of each task, which is good to know. 2) There didn't seem to be any lingering result of having failed other than failing.

I wonder if the town having been aware of us coming is a result of a Sympathizer action yesterday. Perhaps each day they have something they can do, whether it be forewarn the next town, arrest somebody, etc.

I'm starting to wonder how many powers they can possibly have. My hope is they are using all of their powers early, possibly with the thought that once our numbers get lower towns will be harder to convert.

I'm thinking if they can do multiple things a day/night this could be VERY hard for us to win. I mean from what I saw last night they warned the next town AND did a night kill. And then today they arrested someone. If they can do this every day we will just have to hope for auto win missions or really concentrate on them to possibly lower our requirements.

[dubb93]

I haven't done the math but I see no reason anyone would fake when it was pretty likely we were doomed anyway

Yea, I remember someone saying we had 27 of 28 hours so I just wanted to double check since we ended up coming up 2 short instead of the one I was expecting.

[dubb93]

Although I now see there were actually 29 hours required.

[Danny]

Yea, I remember someone saying we had 27 of 28 hours so I just wanted to double check since we ended up coming up 2 short instead of the one I was expecting.

That was me, I must have miscounted

[Danny]

Although I now see there were actually 29 hours required.

Oh, that's where I made the mistake then.

[Lathum]

so I am thinking about something.

We have 2 people who claim to have found weapons. If I found a weapon I'm keeping quiet about it. I wonder if one of them, either Poli or Jackal is lying.

[dubb93]

so I am thinking about something.

We have 2 people who claim to have found weapons. If I found a weapon I'm keeping quiet about it. I wonder if one of them, either Poli or Jackal is lying.

If I found a weapon I'm killing my top suspect tonight, not sure if I would have announced that I found it or not.

[RendeR]

I found an item, its not a weapon.

I need to PM Abe to clear some stuff up about it. If I can be more specific after that I will.

Sorry for not being around today, it was a rather busy family day. I'm exhausted.

If I had gotten logged in sooner I would have switched up to Food Distribution, though I could only have given 1 point to that so we'd still have failed. Sucks ass.

Dubb: No worries mate. I'm no longer the anti-social screaming throat slashing asshat that Eaglefan remembers and loves.

[Poli]

I'm kind of proud of mah shotgun. No need in me hiding that fact.

[Passacaglia]

If I had gotten logged in sooner I would have switched up to Food Distribution, though I could only have given 1 point to that so we'd still have failed. Sucks ass.


Why would you have done that?

[RendeR]

Ok, abe cleared up my questions. I have an item which can offset something. I will ponder the skills and PM it over to someone I feel can make the best use of it.

[RendeR]

Why would you have done that?


Because if I had done so sooner we might have managed to get one of the others to switch off as well and completed the work.

[The Jackal]

so I am thinking about something.

We have 2 people who claim to have found weapons. If I found a weapon I'm keeping quiet about it. I wonder if one of them, either Poli or Jackal is lying.

I'm not lying. I thought about keeping it to myself so the wolves might try and target me and I could possibly fight them off, but I went back to what every good villager should - honesty is usually the best policy.

[Barkeep49]

But I thought you knew that ahead of time and you switched gears pretty quickly. And there was definite upside to us all going on the mission and potentially getting an item.
Again playing the catch-up game, but there seems like even more of an advantage of winning each and every day's camp. The missions might be tempting but the camps are the name of the game.

[The Jackal]

Because if I had done so sooner we might have managed to get one of the others to switch off as well and completed the work.

Yeah, could've used you and Poli about 8 hours ago... ;)

[Passacaglia]

Because if I had done so sooner we might have managed to get one of the others to switch off as well and completed the work.

That seems like a turnaround from your post this morning. What was it that would have caused the change?

[Passacaglia]

I'm not lying. I thought about keeping it to myself so the wolves might try and target me and I could possibly fight them off, but I went back to what every good villager should - honesty is usually the best policy.

Does your weapon also protect you against night kills?

[The Jackal]

Does your weapon also protect you against night kills?

I wasn't explicitly told that, but it gives an advantage in a fight.

[RendeR]

That seems like a turnaround from your post this morning. What was it that would have caused the change?


Eaglefan's arrest? the imminent failure if we didn't change? I don't regret going on the mission, I found something that will help us, but in hindsight, had I been able to log in sooner I would have gladly traded finding that item for helping complete the mission even after EF's arrest.

I'm stubborn, not stupid. I will always do whats best for the village when its patently obvious and I'm around in time to do so.

[Barkeep49]

If the wolves have things they can do we didn't know about, it'd make sense that we'll have things to employ they didn't know about. I doubt Abe would balance all the hidden information one-sidedly.
That's great for the villagers who know about secret mechanics, of course it's possible they've got some ability relating to some mechanic they can't even understand. For people who are trying to put together a plan to win this, it makes things damn difficult.

[RendeR]

Yeah, could've used you and Poli about 8 hours ago... ;)


Sorry, I was wrapped up with my mother and the kids doing 6 months worth of shopping, after which I had to unpack and repack 40lbs of boneless chicken breast and get it in my tiny ass freezer, along with putting away all the shit we bought today.

It was a long, tiring effort, but we are now prepared to host a seriously big ass BBQ if the chance arises ;)

[Barkeep49]

I'm real excited that we get the work breakdown. Means we should be able to tell when we're hit with faking.

[Poli]

Am I able to send the gun over to anyone or does it just stay in my possession forevermore?

[The Jackal]

It's cool, I know real life comes into play, I was just the only one of the three searchers around and it made it difficult for me to coordinate possible movement. :P

[The Jackal]

Am I able to send the gun over to anyone or does it just stay in my possession forevermore?

From the rules:

In order to move an item, simply pm me who you want to give it to.

[Poli]

You were around at that time? Why didn't you switch out then?

[Passacaglia]

Eaglefan's arrest? the imminent failure if we didn't change? I don't regret going on the mission, I found something that will help us, but in hindsight, had I been able to log in sooner I would have gladly traded finding that item for helping complete the mission even after EF's arrest.

I'm stubborn, not stupid. I will always do whats best for the village when its patently obvious and I'm around in time to do so.

You're sending me mixed messages here. Are you saying that if you had been on sooner you would have changed or not? And if you are saying that you would have changed your action, you're saying your reasoning is because of EagleFan's arrest, which happened after the mission you went on?

[Poli]

From the rules:

In order to move an item, simply pm me who you want to give it to.
Interesting, very interesting.

Sorry Jack, I'm not much of a "read the rules" person.

[RendeR]

It's cool, I know real life comes into play, I was just the only one of the three searchers around and it made it difficult for me to coordinate possible movement. :P


Yeah, I'm sorry I wasn't here to help get something done. it makes me look bad in general.

[path12]

Hi path, care to tell us who killed you?

Not without a seance.

[RendeR]

You're sending me mixed messages here. Are you saying that if you had been on sooner you would have changed or not? And if you are saying that you would have changed your action, you're saying your reasoning is because of EagleFan's arrest, which happened after the mission you went on?



duh, yeah that was after the mission so it wouldn't have mattered then. Timing wise my choice was made and they played it well. If I had known we needed the extra work I would definitely have changed. I was gone all day so I had no clue how things shook out until I scanned through 8 pages of posts to catch up.

Based on the step by step of how things happened I most likely would not have moved, because at that time I wouldn't have seen a reason to. Guess my hindsight is as shitty as my real sight.

[Poli]

Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya

[Poli]

That was for Path, by the way.

[RendeR]

I feel like Lathum on a bender. I can't think past my nose right now.

[Passacaglia]

Interesting, very interesting.

Sorry Jack, I'm not much of a "read the rules" person.

You should really start being one.

[Poli]

I give it a shot from time to time. Easier rule games are far easier to read. If they somehow involved football, I'd be all over it.

[The Jackal]

You were around at that time? Why didn't you switch out then?

I hadn't heard from either of you and couldn't take the chance that the wolves had either 1 or 2 on the mission and would get full shot at the items. I mean, hopefully we're all good and we obviously had no way of knowing that warrant would be issued, but yeah.. that's why I didn't move.

[Lathum]

I feel like Lathum on a bender. I can't think past my nose right now.

not really sure what that means

[RendeR]

not really sure what that means


Just relating back to your drunken posting last night, nothing meant by it in real game terms. My brain is mush.

[Lathum]

Just relating back to your drunken posting last night, nothing meant by it in real game terms. My brain is mush.

ahh, i did have a snootfull.

[Abe Sargent]

Let me process real quick

[Abe Sargent]

You leave Drawdy Creek behind and decide to head nearby to the mining town of Bob White. Your failure in Drawdy Creek, the notice the company received of your arrival are proof that there are sympathizers in your midst. Bob White is on the other side of Drawdy Mountain, so the trek is quick.

As you arrive at the mining town of Bob White you resolve yourself to find the person in your midst who is responsible, and Oust them.

Good News! EagleFan’s arrest warrant was falsified and he has been released. Although you have no evidence, you suspect company interference.

In Bob White, you have run out of the administrata necessary for a successful union. Therefore, in addition to recruitment tasks, you will have to focus on fixing your union back up a bit. The miners here are willing, so you can use that to also fix your finances and organization.


Needs:
Gladhandling – 8
Oratory – 8
Treasury – 8
Organization – 8

There are no missions for today. Remember that you can vote as well as work today, you can do both. Good luck!

[Abe Sargent]

The following ad was placed in newspapers in 1913 to hire scabs:

“Miners and laborers for coal mine – blacksmiths, track layers, drum runners, motor runners, motor helpers, trappers, greasers, slate men, tipple boys, mule drivers, tipple bosses, and men. Good steady job all the year around; family men of all nationalities preferred. Transportation furnished; long contract; also strong men used to pick work can make $6 per day. Strike on. Homes all furnished. All the coal you want, $1 per month. Here is your chance to make money and a good home. Apply early. Call Mr. Williams, 548 Broadway.”

Of course, the train ride, homes, tools and everything else was charged to the miner’s account, putting them deeply in debt to the company just by arriving. Few miners actually got physical script, instead keeping a ledger with their pay and expenses, and their debt just increased and increased. Any miners that just simply left had nowhere to go. The train out of the company town was owned and operated by the company. The mining towns were virtually in the middle of nowhere. The coal companies purchases vast swaths of land and owned everything around the company towns. People who left could be tracked down and forced to pay based on the debt they owed.

Remember, many of the scabs hired barely knew English, whether immigrants with little English skills, poor folk without good reading, or disadvantaged black populations without an opportunity to read.

[Danny]

So no night kill?

[Lathum]

OK, my guess is the wolves used their power to screw with EF today in lieu of a night kill.

I just don't see thim going conversion this early.

Thoughts?

[Danny]

OK, my guess is the wolves used their power to screw with EF today in lieu of a night kill.

I just don't see thim going conversion this early.

Thoughts?

I'd say that makes sense

[dubb93]

OK, my guess is the wolves used their power to screw with EF today in lieu of a night kill.

I just don't see thim going conversion this early.

Thoughts?

My best guess would be conversion.

[Autumn]

It's really hard to say with these mechanics. It's certainly possible they chose the arrest instead of the night kill, which made good sense for htem in this case. But I dont think we can really hazard too much of a guess how things work.

I take it that the Organization and Treasury are meant to "fix the union" and the rest are for the town. This will be another hard day but we won't have the mission to interfere at least. I would expect some kind of trouble from the Sympathizers during the day though.

[Danny]

My best guess would be conversion.

I actually think what Lathum said might make more sense.

[dubb93]

Work Gladhandling

[Lathum]

My best guess would be conversion.

I just don't see why, I am assuming there is some sort of seer mechanic, why try a conversion so soon before everyone can be scanned?

[Danny]

Today we have to vote someone off?

[Lathum]

we do

[dubb93]

[QUOTE=Lathum;2007283]I just don't see why, I am assuming there is some sort of seer mechanicQUOTE]

Or a bodyguard mechanic?

[EagleFan]

I'm free!!!

I hope that whatever they did to me was their only action but would not be surprised if there was a conversion attempt. They want to get the numbers so the earlier they can bring more on board the better.

It's late so I will comment more on what happened today (not on my situation as I didn't learn anything different than what was posted here) sometime tomorrow when I am a little more awake.

I don't think that any more than one sympathiser went on the mission yesterday. They probably went after me once they saw that they could shut us out from winning the camp. In hindsight I wish that I hadn't revealed my multiplier initially (or only said 2x) but hindsight is 20/20.

I am still suspicious of those who wanted to overload the camp tasks on day one (when it was much easier to gain the camps with fewer work hours reqauired) which would have kept the numbers down on the mission. Just by the description of that mission it sounded as if it could have helped us (saving trapped workers sounds like a way to help convince the workers to sign with us). On the other side, anyone pushing for going on the mission today should be looked at, when that was completely selfish (or wolfish).

Going to get some sleep.

But after being arrested it's game on!!!! :)

[EagleFan]

dola: I'm going to wait until tomorrow to decide where to work, once I see where we have everyone and what we need.

[dubb93]

dola: I'm going to wait until tomorrow to decide where to work, once I see where we have everyone and what we need.

Well if you can take everyone at face value then we have 3 gladhandlers at x3 so everyone should stay away from that as we should be able to take care of it.

[dubb93]

Question Abe, does the person who gets voted out still get to do work they said they were going to if they are a non wolf?

[EagleFan]

Autumn is a hunter like me.

[quote]
1. Poli Searching
2. Lathum Food Distribution
3. Passacaglia Hunting
4. dubb Gladhandling
5. claphamsa Gladhandling
6. ntndeacon x3
7. USFLTecmo Patrolling
8. TheNorm
9. EagleFan Food Distribution
10. Schmidty
11. Chief Rum Patrolling
12. DaddyTorgo Oratory
13. Danny Food Distribution
14. PurdueBrad Oratory
15. Autumn Hunting
16. path Treasury
17. The Jackal Searching
18. RendeR Searching
19. Barkeep Treasury
20. jeheinz Gladhandling

This bugged me earlier. How do you know what Path did? He never mentioned from what I can see, just that it wasn't one of the day one tasks.

I ask this because of another question that someone posed which made me think of this post. The question was where do the sympathisers get the money for bribes. This popped into my head, thinking that path being Treasure may have been why he was targeted. Then I looked through path's posts and never saw him say he was treasury.

[Poli]

Off to bed. I'll take a job that is need of attention in the morning.

[Abe Sargent]

Question Abe, does the person who gets voted out still get to do work they said they were going to if they are a non wolf?

Work is done and Ousting occur simultaneously so all work is done.

[Chief Rum]

Man, 29 units was a tall order. Now we have to put up 32? That's just, well, nuts.

Patrolling ain't an option, so I'll just stick my one unit of work somewhere where it is needed.

[Barkeep49]

Work on the Treasury

Having the treasury skill I can disabuse anyone of the notion that it somehow relates to bribes.

[PurdueBrad]

This is an obvious one for me.

work on oratory

[claphamsa]

work on gladhanding

[Passacaglia]

[QUOTE=Passacaglia;2006187]Autumn is a hunter like me.



This bugged me earlier. How do you know what Path did? He never mentioned from what I can see, just that it wasn't one of the day one tasks.

I ask this because of another question that someone posed which made me think of this post. The question was where do the sympathisers get the money for bribes. This popped into my head, thinking that path being Treasure may have been why he was targeted. Then I looked through path's posts and never saw him say he was treasury.

I went into how I arrived at that assumption earlier -- it may or may not be correct, but it worked for me to put it there. Basically, path said that his skill was one that was mentioned before, but was not useful for any Day 1 activities. At the time he said that, the only skill that had been mentioned that were not useful on Day 1 was Food Distribution and Treasury. Once Lathum revealed as the third Food Distributor, I took a hunch that there couldn't more than three (we had eight skills, so I assumed four skills had two people each, and four skills had three people each). Now that everyone else has revealed, I think it looks more likely that he was the treasurer, since BK was the only other one. As I said earlier, he could have been lying, but why would he lie about that as a villager, and every other skill has two people, so why not treasurer?

I'll dig up the posts where I explained this yesterday morning when I get to work.

[Passacaglia]

Augh, sorry -- my poor quoting skills in the intial post are carrying over through the whole chain. Blah.

[Passacaglia]

Man, 29 units was a tall order. Now we have to put up 32? That's just, well, nuts.

Patrolling ain't an option, so I'll just stick my one unit of work somewhere where it is needed.

The good news (I guess) is that we don't have a mission for people to go on instead, so this should be more straightforward.

[claphamsa]

Sorry I havent been more active, this swine flue shit is killing me. not even an abnormal outbreak but NOOOOO CNN is on the scene. fuckers

[PurdueBrad]

32 isn't what makes this tough, what will really make this tough is whether or not we have enough people of each specialty to get the bonuses so we can cover everything. I haven't done the math but this one will be tight.

[RendeR]

Searching isn't going to help anything so just let me know where to put my effort and I'll hop to it.

[DaddyTorgo]

WORK ON ORATORY

[EagleFan]

32 isn't what makes this tough, what will really make this tough is whether or not we have enough people of each specialty to get the bonuses so we can cover everything. I haven't done the math but this one will be tight.

The bright side is that at least if we fail we should be able to narrow down the culprit.

[Passacaglia]

Needs:
Gladhandling – 8
Oratory – 8
Treasury – 8
Organization – 8

People:
Gladhandling - 3 (all at x3)
Oratory - 4 (2 at x3, 2 at x1)
Treasury - 6 (1 at x3, 5 at x1)
Organization - 4 (2 at x3, 2 at x1)

So that's 17 of 19. Although, I'm not sure if the treasurer is a x3 or x2 -- hopefully it's x3. BK, can you verify? I saw that someone else earlier was saying they shouldn't have revealed that they were x3, so maybe you shouldn't reveal yours, but I'm not sure that's exactly a villager friendly plan.

Abe -- does the person who gets lynched still have a chance to act? Also, can we vote no lynch?

[EagleFan]

Unfortunately I don't have the time now but I think it is critical for us to keep a running total on this one so that we can see where we stand and not allow an opening for confusion later.

I'll try to get back on around lunch time but I will put a place holder wofk action in since we lost path.

work treasury

[Passacaglia]

I'm free!!!

I hope that whatever they did to me was their only action but would not be surprised if there was a conversion attempt. They want to get the numbers so the earlier they can bring more on board the better.

It's late so I will comment more on what happened today (not on my situation as I didn't learn anything different than what was posted here) sometime tomorrow when I am a little more awake.

I don't think that any more than one sympathiser went on the mission yesterday. They probably went after me once they saw that they could shut us out from winning the camp. In hindsight I wish that I hadn't revealed my multiplier initially (or only said 2x) but hindsight is 20/20.

I am still suspicious of those who wanted to overload the camp tasks on day one (when it was much easier to gain the camps with fewer work hours reqauired) which would have kept the numbers down on the mission. Just by the description of that mission it sounded as if it could have helped us (saving trapped workers sounds like a way to help convince the workers to sign with us). On the other side, anyone pushing for going on the mission today should be looked at, when that was completely selfish (or wolfish).

Going to get some sleep.

But after being arrested it's game on!!!! :)

Here's what I was referring to. Now that I realize it's EF, that puts a much different spin on that comment. Are you saying that if you had not revealed your multiplier, you think we would have won the camp, or that you personally would not have been arrested?

[Passacaglia]

I went into how I arrived at that assumption earlier -- it may or may not be correct, but it worked for me to put it there. Basically, path said that his skill was one that was mentioned before, but was not useful for any Day 1 activities. At the time he said that, the only skill that had been mentioned that were not useful on Day 1 was Food Distribution and Treasury. Once Lathum revealed as the third Food Distributor, I took a hunch that there couldn't more than three (we had eight skills, so I assumed four skills had two people each, and four skills had three people each). Now that everyone else has revealed, I think it looks more likely that he was the treasurer, since BK was the only other one. As I said earlier, he could have been lying, but why would he lie about that as a villager, and every other skill has two people, so why not treasurer?

I'll dig up the posts where I explained this yesterday morning when I get to work.

EF, the posts where I laid this out yesterday morning are 503 and 549.

[EagleFan]

Having the treasury skill I can disabuse anyone of the notion that it somehow relates to bribes.

Would you know that for certain? I was just thinking out loud on that one. Basically it was a what if notion... "what if the sympathisers gain money by doing in someone with treasury as a skill?"

[EagleFan]

EF, the posts where I laid this out yesterday morning are 503 and 549.

I'll check them out later. Thanks. Didn't look back into your previous posts at that point, just path's.

[EagleFan]

Here's what I was referring to. Now that I realize it's EF, that puts a much different spin on that comment. Are you saying that if you had not revealed your multiplier, you think we would have won the camp, or that you personally would not have been arrested?

I was thinking that if I hadn't revealed early with x3 maybe we would have placed more people on the camp tasks prior to the mission and then either if I got arrested (or one of the others who were x3 on food distribution did) it would have placed us in a better position.

It was more thinking out loud and late at night to boot. Hind sight is 20/20 so there would have been no way to know about the arrest.

[EagleFan]

One last point which came to mind. More thinking out loud though to be honest.

I doubt that more than one sympathiser went on the mission yesterday, if that. That would make it too obvious. By putting me in prison they guarantee that we do not succeed and do not have to risk exposing a member by not working. They can act just like us and put the effort in without being noticed and knowing that it won't help us succeed.

We may want to look at anyone who flopped from doing the mission and onto working at camp. If they saw that the numbers were already going to be tight and this arrest was going to keep us just short they would want to hide among us.

There was flopping and if that held tru to the end (no flopping back) than I bet there was already one sympathiser on the mission and they didn't want to expose another.

As I said, just thinking out loud.

With that said I think my vote needs to be....

vote PurdueBrad

I think he was the one who flopped. If I am not remembering correctly I will change this when I read through the thread on lunch (or after work before the deadline).

[Abe Sargent]

Needs:
Gladhandling – 8
Oratory – 8
Treasury – 8
Organization – 8

People:
Gladhandling - 3 (all at x3)
Oratory - 4 (2 at x3, 2 at x1)
Treasury - 6 (1 at x3, 5 at x1)
Organization - 4 (2 at x3, 2 at x1)

So that's 17 of 19. Although, I'm not sure if the treasurer is a x3 or x2 -- hopefully it's x3. BK, can you verify? I saw that someone else earlier was saying they shouldn't have revealed that they were x3, so maybe you shouldn't reveal yours, but I'm not sure that's exactly a villager friendly plan.

Abe -- does the person who gets lynched still have a chance to act? Also, can we vote no lynch?

If the village would like to not vote, that's fine. There's no voting requirement.

Ousts and works are processed simutaneously so all work is completed by the one being ousted.

[TheNorm]

Alright, my hunting skill won't do much for tasks today so please just tell me where to go I'm needed...currently at work right now so I'll have to catch up on all of this after 4pm today.

[Passacaglia]

If the village would like to not vote, that's fine. There's no voting requirement.

Ousts and works are processed simutaneously so all work is completed by the one being ousted.

But -- can we vote no lynch? (that's a different question)

[Abe Sargent]

But -- can we vote no lynch? (that's a different question)

There is no voting requirement, so if you'd like to, sure.

[Passacaglia]

There is no voting requirement, so if you'd like to, sure.

Saying 'there is no voting requirement' is different from a 'no lynch' vote. No voting requirement means we don't have to vote, but if 8 people vote for Player X, and no one else votes, Player X dies. But generally, if 8 people vote for Player X, and everyone else votes No Lynch, no one dies.

[Passacaglia]

So I guess what I'm asking is -- if we vote No Lynch, does that mean we're actually voting for there to be no lynch?

And -- is the person who is lynched able to work on the camps?

[ntndeacon]

Work on Organization

[Lathum]

I agree with EF that we may want to vote someone who flip flopped, I believe TheNorm did as well.

[Lathum]

Abe- What happens to a persons item when they die?

[USFLTecmo]

Work on Treasury

Looks like that's where the most help will be needed.

[jeheinz72]

Work on Gladhanding

[jeheinz72]

That should cover us there (actually 9/8)

[jeheinz72]

Unsure where I'll vote today. Personally I think we're likely getting led by the nose from a few people.

[Lathum]

I am also gonna hold off on voting until someone with more time then I have can let us know where to go

[Poli]

Organizing looks a little low, so I'll help out there unless I'm needed elsewhere.

GO ORGANIZE

Since I'm not one of those big organizer types, I'm just x1.

[Autumn]

All right, it looks like we need a couple one units on Oratory, so I'll try to fill that up next.

<b>WORK ON ORATORY</b>

[Autumn]

EagleFan, I had thought you were wrong about Purdue switching off, but you are right. He switched off the mission after nine others had committed to some form of work, including Poli and Render going on the mission. I'm not sure if that means anything or not. I'm not sure if the Sympathizers could have known already that they had the numbers they needed. Possibly, since we would have needed only one person on the mission in order to win despite EagleFan's arrest.

TheNorm switched off after getting a lot of pressure also. By that point it might have been much clearer that they had the numbers. Though I would think that they would be worried that Jackal, Poli and/or Render would switch off the mission. It certainly seemed a possibility. That makes me suspicious of those three.

[Poli]

Well, had I been around I would have switched off. When I volunteered for the mission I did so only because I thought the other stuff was covered. I'd much rather have won the camp than to have a gun.

[Autumn]

Looking back at the timing, I revise my thought. EagleFan's arrest came 24 minutes after the mission deadline. That makes me think the Sympathizers had an action they could do anytime during the day, and they simply waited to make sure we had committed too many people to the mission. In that case it's certainly possible they allowed us to shoot ourselves in our own foot, with the searchers all being villagers.

The three searchers at least had some rationale for being the ones to go, though they all bothered me with how quickly they chose to go despite the spot it put us in. TheNorm and PurdueBrad made me suspect in that neither of them had any obvious reason to insist on going at all. TheNorm explained that somewhat with his skill, which makes sense to me. PurdueBrad I'm not clear on.

[Passacaglia]

Well, had I been around I would have switched off. When I volunteered for the mission I did so only because I thought the other stuff was covered. I'd much rather have won the camp than to have a gun.

What made you think the other stuff was covered?

[Autumn]

Just to put this out there, I find Autumn's push to ignore the mission highly suspect, the numbers do not support ignoring the mission at all. And after seeing how very important the mission was to the day 1 camp win I think there is no excuse to ever totally ignore the mission put before us.

As for who should go, I think perhaps since there are 3 of us with the specific searching skill that only those three should go, allowing the maximum people to work on the camps that have no direct usefulness doing a searching mission.

Thoughts?


RENDER JOINS THE MISSION

I'm working this mission angle since it's the only thing I've got right now. I looked back and recalled that Render had made me suspicious here. Not only jumping on the mission when it was already becoming clear that was going to be a problem. Both taking the opportunity to both throw suspicion at me and make it seem unpatriotic to not go on the mission. Given that this plays right into the Sympathizers' hands I wonder if this isn't a wolf play to 1) get another person on the mission, 2) make it a wolf, 3) encourage a line of thinking that will keep people on the mission and kill our chance at converting the camp, 4) Throw suspicion on a villager.

[PurdueBrad]

I can explain, like I did before. #1 Nothing about that mission, since it said "any player", read to me that searchers got a boost. #2 Items are going to be big in this game, I truly believe, since we all have a slot for it in our initial intro. #3 I agreed with Danny regarding screwing the camp that day because it seemed like too uphill a battle and #4 I felt that, knowing Abe's games, there were likely some very good items out there.

And yeah, with nine people on the camp already and me with a 1 point work unit thought I could be spared to try and find something (even admitted I was going to be selfish). But I gave in and worked and didn't bitch when asked to work on a different part (although not really asked, it was just put out there). If you look at my track record in games that have a mission component or activity component, I always try to enjoy the game dynamic and rarely follow the herd for the sake of following the herd. I believe the dynamic usually offers a nice reward of some type even with the risk (see our first mission that guaranteed we won the camp).

[Autumn]

hey just came around and caught up

i think since i'm a searcher i should definitely go on the mission - but i'll be checking in beforehands to make sure it's not necessary for me to stay back and work on the camps

GO ON MISSION

Jackal made clear that he was willing to entertain shifting off the mission, but only it turned out if Poli and REnder were around to do the same. So take that or leave it.

However, Jackal joined the mission far after Render even, and I think at this point it was very clear that the mission was going to jeopardize our chance at the camps. I found it very odd that someone would jump on the mission at a point where weren't even sure we had enough numbers to cover the work at all.

[Poli]

What made you think the other stuff was covered?
I had no idea it wouldn't be covered at the time. My actual thought process at the time was...I better jump on this mission or I'll hear about it later.

Who knew I'd hear about it because I actually went on it.

I think I was on somewhat earlyish in the day...and wasn't able to get back until after the result. If that makes me guilty, I guess that makes me guilty.

I had no idea we'd be in such trouble camp wise or I wouldn't have done it.

[Autumn]

That's all I've dug up at this point. Hopefully it will get some discussion going. Poli went on the mission early and seemingly was away until after deadline. Not that that clears him, but there's nothing much to discuss there.

And indeed, as I said, it's possible these are all villagers and the Sympathizers simply took advantage of their actions. But I don't have another lead right now.

[Passacaglia]

I had no idea it wouldn't be covered at the time. My actual thought process at the time was...I better jump on this mission or I'll hear about it later.

Who knew I'd hear about it because I actually went on it.

I think I was on somewhat earlyish in the day...and wasn't able to get back until after the result. If that makes me guilty, I guess that makes me guilty.

I had no idea we'd be in such trouble camp wise or I wouldn't have done it.

So are you saying that if you had been around half an hour before the mission deadline, you would have switched to working on the camps?

[Poli]

Having seen the situation, there's no doubt I would have switched out.

[Passacaglia]

Having seen the situation, there's no doubt I would have switched out.

Why?

[Poli]

because we needed the manpower? Seems like that was a hot topic at the time. Had I known we needed the hours or whatever they're called, I know I would have helped out. I'll help out where ever I'm needed.

[Poli]

Scratches head. I kinda feel like I'm getting setup for something here.

[Autumn]

Perry Mason is in the house.

[DaddyTorgo]

we want to win this camp today right?

[DaddyTorgo]

are we going to have enough people to do it? how worried are we about work-faking and actions by the symapthizers? what's our margin of error?

[Autumn]

I think someone figured out we needed 17 workers to pull it off, including all the specialists. I haven't run my own numbers yet.

[Abe Sargent]

So I guess what I'm asking is -- if we vote No Lynch, does that mean we're actually voting for there to be no lynch?

And -- is the person who is lynched able to work on the camps?

If No Oust wins then yes, no ousting would occur.

Yes

[Abe Sargent]

Abe- What happens to a persons item when they die?

An excellent question. There is no mechanic like last game where the first person to ask for them or something gets them. There is a mechanic in place, but it in behind the scenes.

[Autumn]

Gladhanding 8 - dubbx3, clapx3, jeheinzx3 (9/8)
Oratory 8 - Purduex3, daddyx3, Autumn (7/8)
Treasury 8 - Barkeepx3, Eaglefan, USFL (5/8)
Organization 8 - Ntdeaconx3, Poli (4/8)

So, that's 11 out of 19? laborers right now. If all are 1 pointers we only just barely make it. I think we've got one more organization specialist though.

[Passacaglia]

because we needed the manpower? Seems like that was a hot topic at the time. Had I known we needed the hours or whatever they're called, I know I would have helped out. I'll help out where ever I'm needed.

This is pretty much the same conversation I had with RendeR. Here's what I said to him:


You're sending me mixed messages here. Are you saying that if you had been on sooner you would have changed or not? And if you are saying that you would have changed your action, you're saying your reasoning is because of EagleFan's arrest, which happened after the mission you went on?


I guess I just have the same question for you -- are you saying that you would have changed your action, because of EagleFan's arrest, which happened after the mission you went on?

[Passacaglia]

Gladhanding 8 - dubbx3, clapx3, jeheinzx3 (9/8)
Oratory 8 - Purduex3, daddyx3, Autumn (7/8)
Treasury 8 - Barkeepx3, Eaglefan, USFL (5/8)
Organization 8 - Ntdeaconx3, Poli (4/8)

So, that's 11 out of 19? laborers right now. If all are 1 pointers we only just barely make it. I think we've got one more organization specialist though.

We do -- Schmidty.

[Abe Sargent]

I felt that, knowing Abe's games, there were likely some very good items out there.

XEENTHRAX HAS BEEN FOUND. XEENTHRAX, THE ENSORCELLED DEMON HAS ARRIVED! XEENTHRAX WILL FEAST ON THE BLOOD OF THE RIGHTEOUS. KWHIT WILL WIELD XEENTHRAX TO VANQUISH ALL FOES.


Whoops, sorry, wrong game...

:p

[Passacaglia]

Abe -- is the amount of work we have to do to convert each camp a function of how many people are alive, or does it simply go down each day based on the assumption that there will be less people alive as the game goes on? Or does it have nothing to do with either?

Hmm. It went up from 29 to 32 today, right? Blah.

[RendeR]

I'm working this mission angle since it's the only thing I've got right now. I looked back and recalled that Render had made me suspicious here. Not only jumping on the mission when it was already becoming clear that was going to be a problem. Both taking the opportunity to both throw suspicion at me and make it seem unpatriotic to not go on the mission. Given that this plays right into the Sympathizers' hands I wonder if this isn't a wolf play to 1) get another person on the mission, 2) make it a wolf, 3) encourage a line of thinking that will keep people on the mission and kill our chance at converting the camp, 4) Throw suspicion on a villager.


Lets take your points one at a time:

1) I in no way encouraged, cajoled or suggested that anyone ELSE go. My only statement at any time (IIRC) was that the ONLY people that should go are the searcher skill people because we're BETTER at searching than anyone else.

2) How does my post relate in any way to a wolf? This is just gibberish, makes no sense at all.

3) Again this is you putting words in my mouth, I did not encourage any line of thinking, period. You're twisting my words to fit your suspicions, not basing it on any facts or reality here.

4) I assume you're talking about yourself here, you're making a number of misleading statements in this post. First the fact that it was already clear we would have trouble making the camp, it was NOT clear at the time I joined the mission, in fact based on our numbers it seemed very clear TO ME that we'd make it just fine. I couldn't know they could lock up one of our primary workers after the fact any more than you or anyone else.

You keep repeating the "throw suspicion on a villager" line, which is a very easy way to build sympathy and push people away from considering you at all. As of right now you are no more cleared or trusted than anyone, myself included. The more you play this card the more I actually suspect you.

I'm also bothered by your wording about "making it seem unpatriotic to not go on the mission" I never suggested any such thing. I stated, quite simply that IMO we should never ignore the missions completely. I stand by that, but given a real and certain knowledge that we will fail a camp unless we ignore the mission I would certainly pass up the mission to save the camp. Yesterday that was NOT the case, no matter how loudly you trumpet that you knew it would fail and push blame at the mission-goers. Add to this the fact that my mission was in fact successful and has brought us an item that will help us with a future camp and you really seem to be going out of your way to paint me as bad here.

Right now besides PB, you're my #1 target for vote tonight. My reasons being noted above, you're using very flimsy reasoning and twisting the statements made to fit your suspicion.

[Autumn]

Render, that was an analysis based on an assumption that you were a wolf. If you were a wolf, I think you can see how those points might follow. If you are not a wolf then they wouldn't apply. I'm hoping to spur some conversation and I guess I certainly got some out of you.

[Autumn]

you're using very flimsy reasoning and twisting the statements made to fit your suspicion.

Specifically, this is the point of the post. I looked at each person on the mission and examined why they might be a wolf. So, twisting your statements to my suspicion was exactly what I was trying to do. Clearly there's no proof you're a Sympathizer, or anyone else. It's just analysis.

[RendeR]

This is pretty much the same conversation I had with RendeR. Here's what I said to him:



I guess I just have the same question for you -- are you saying that you would have changed your action, because of EagleFan's arrest, which happened after the mission you went on?



Did I ever answer this? I can't remember. Obviously enough since the arrest was later in teh day (someone posted 24 minutes after the mission deadline) that I couldn't have based my decision on that. At the time I posted to go on Mission I believed we were fine on teh camp (which we were without sympathizer interference). If something had changed so that I knew we needed more on the camps I would certainly have worked on the camps. We didn't need overkill the first day, I didn't believe we needed it yesterday, I was wrong and the sympathizers made a perfect play. Thats just how it played out.

Sorry if I already said this once. yesterday/last night are mostly a blur.

[RendeR]

Specifically, this is the point of the post. I looked at each person on the mission and examined why they might be a wolf. So, twisting your statements to my suspicion was exactly what I was trying to do. Clearly there's no proof you're a Sympathizer, or anyone else. It's just analysis.


But its bad analysis, thats MY point. You're creating confusion instead of helping clarify anything. Thats a wolf play, not a union play. Try not to intentionally muck up the waters in the future please.

[Autumn]

4) I assume you're talking about yourself here, you're making a number of misleading statements in this post. First the fact that it was already clear we would have trouble making the camp, it was NOT clear at the time I joined the mission, in fact based on our numbers it seemed very clear TO ME that we'd make it just fine. I couldn't know they could lock up one of our primary workers after the fact any more than you or anyone else.

This is not pointed just at you Render, but at anyone who claims we didn't know we would fail before EagleFan's arrest. Before his arrest we had one extra man-hour beyond the requirements on all the jobs total.

<i>One extra man-hour on all three jobs.</i>

How is it not clear that this is not enough in a game with Sympathizers who can fake work? Even if Eagle Fan had not been arrested all it took was 1 wolf to fake and we lose. Those who went on the mission suggesting that they thought we were all set because we had one extra man hour make me wonder what they're thinking. We needed at least three extra man hours to at least make the wolves work at defeating us. That was fairly clear when you joined the mission, I thought.

[Passacaglia]

This is pretty much the same conversation I had with RendeR. Here's what I said to him:



I guess I just have the same question for you -- are you saying that you would have changed your action, because of EagleFan's arrest, which happened after the mission you went on?

RendeR, it looks like Poli made the same claim you did -- that he would have switched off the mission if he had been around. So far, he hasn't given any reasoning other than "hours were needed," which sounds like his reasoning was the same as yours -- the EF's arrest would have made him switch off, but that happened after the mission, so he really could not have. And he's taken off, I want to chat, and you're around and can relate -- any thoughts on it?

[Autumn]

But its bad analysis, thats MY point. You're creating confusion instead of helping clarify anything. Thats a wolf play, not a union play. Try not to intentionally muck up the waters in the future please.

So, you'd suggest instead of trying to find a Sympathizer I do what? Isn't this the point of the game, to attempt to guess who is a Sympathizer? Give me a break.

[RendeR]

More specifically, even if I were a sympathizer, you're analysis is random and has no real substance to really verify that, so people might as well randomly throw darts and see who they hit as go by what you posted.

[Passacaglia]

Did I ever answer this? I can't remember. Obviously enough since the arrest was later in teh day (someone posted 24 minutes after the mission deadline) that I couldn't have based my decision on that. At the time I posted to go on Mission I believed we were fine on teh camp (which we were without sympathizer interference). If something had changed so that I knew we needed more on the camps I would certainly have worked on the camps. We didn't need overkill the first day, I didn't believe we needed it yesterday, I was wrong and the sympathizers made a perfect play. Thats just how it played out.

Sorry if I already said this once. yesterday/last night are mostly a blur.

I think you pretty much answered it last night, that when you made the claim, you were confused about how EF's arrest went down. I just don't get how both you and Poli thought we were 'fine' so early in the morning, though.

[Autumn]

Render, would you like to offer some analysis yourself then? I posted things about Poli, Jackal, Purdue, TheNorm and you. You seem to think I'm picking on you, so why don't you tell us who else we should be voting for?

[RendeR]

This is not pointed just at you Render, but at anyone who claims we didn't know we would fail before EagleFan's arrest. Before his arrest we had one extra man-hour beyond the requirements on all the jobs total.

One extra man-hour on all three jobs.

How is it not clear that this is not enough in a game with Sympathizers who can fake work? Even if Eagle Fan had not been arrested all it took was 1 wolf to fake and we lose. Those who went on the mission suggesting that they thought we were all set because we had one extra man hour make me wonder what they're thinking. We needed at least three extra man hours to at least make the wolves work at defeating us. That was fairly clear when you joined the mission, I thought.

And all I'm saying is that AT THAT TIME, it was not that clear. IMO. Obviously after the fact I was wrong, but remember also that on day 1 the MISSION guaranteed victory in the camp, part of my belief in the missions is the fact that this can happen again. If one of us had recovered an item that guaranteed victory in the camps AGAIN, we wouldn't be being bitched about, no?

Just because it rolled out one way and not the other does not put any more suspicion on those who went on the mission than it does on anyone else.

[Autumn]

I think you pretty much answered it last night, that when you made the claim, you were confused about how EF's arrest went down. I just don't get how both you and Poli thought we were 'fine' so early in the morning, though.

I don't get this either. I'm not sure who simply didn't understand the numbers or the game, and who is making a wolf play.

Let's ask a general question. Who here thought it was safe to go with one extra man-hour on our jobs yesterday? Is that a generally held conclusion?

[Poli]

This is pretty much the same conversation I had with RendeR. Here's what I said to him:



I guess I just have the same question for you -- are you saying that you would have changed your action, because of EagleFan's arrest, which happened after the mission you went on?

Had I been online and read the conversation that there was concern we wouldn't get the camp converted, I would have moved my work/hours to one of the areas of concern. If I'm not mistaken, there was some concern before Eaglefan's arrest that we wouldn't convert the camp.

[RendeR]

Render, would you like to offer some analysis yourself then? I posted things about Poli, Jackal, Purdue, TheNorm and you. You seem to think I'm picking on you, so why don't you tell us who else we should be voting for?


I don't think you're picking on me, I think you're analysis is very weak and poorly formed, thats all. Just because you talk the most doesn't mean what you say is valid, it just means you know how to glad-handle (grin) really well.

I no longer get to sit at a desk all day with the time to delve through all the pages. if I did I would go through and look at your analysis of everyone else and offer some myself. As it is I can only critique your analysis of myself.

[Passacaglia]

I don't get this either. I'm not sure who simply didn't understand the numbers or the game, and who is making a wolf play.

Let's ask a general question. Who here thought it was safe to go with one extra man-hour on our jobs yesterday? Is that a generally held conclusion?

I typed out my answer to this, but I'm copying it in notepad and saving it for later. I feel like I've been dominating conversation a little, and would like to hear some other thoughts first.

[jeheinz72]

Some people seem a tad hyper-agressive in either their defense or their "attack" of other folks.

I'll likely be voting for one of them.

[jeheinz72]

Well-timed Pass ;)

[RendeR]

And on the point of having only 1 work unit more than we needed in ALL areas, what difference would the three of us on the mission have made Autumn? at most we cover ONE project with enough to protect it, the sympathizers would simply have changed who they arrested to screw us either way and then we wouldn't have any items AND we'd have lost the camp, lose lose or lose-win, I'll take what we got at this point.

[Passacaglia]

Had I been online and read the conversation that there was concern we wouldn't get the camp converted, I would have moved my work/hours to one of the areas of concern. If I'm not mistaken, there was some concern before Eaglefan's arrest that we wouldn't convert the camp.

But you felt that there was no concern in the morning when you checked in?

[RendeR]

bbiab, lunchtime for renderlings.

[Passacaglia]

Well-timed Pass ;)

hmm?

[Passacaglia]

I guess the reason I'm harping on this is that I had pretty high concern all morning about getting the camps converted -- I think my posts from that time bear that out. I also felt like we were really up against it, with two people going on the mission that I thought had a good chance of not returning, and not knowing if we had a second organizer for a while. And for people to come in later and say, "oh if I had been around, sure, I wouldn't have gone on the mission, meanwhile I'll just enjoy the item I got" really rubs me the wrong way, since I feel like I had to clean up their mess.

[Poli]

But you felt that there was no concern in the morning when you checked in?
I felt I'd get more grief for not going on the mission. I thought that if I didn't jump all over going on it I'd be 'suspicious'.

Shrug.

[Poli]

I guess the reason I'm harping on this is that I had pretty high concern all morning about getting the camps converted -- I think my posts from that time bear that out. I also felt like we were really up against it, with two people going on the mission that I thought had a good chance of not returning, and not knowing if we had a second organizer for a while. And for people to come in later and say, "oh if I had been around, sure, I wouldn't have gone on the mission, meanwhile I'll just enjoy the item I got" really rubs me the wrong way, since I feel like I had to clean up their mess.
Who's to say I still have the shotgun?

[Autumn]

And on the point of having only 1 work unit more than we needed in ALL areas, what difference would the three of us on the mission have made Autumn? at most we cover ONE project with enough to protect it, the sympathizers would simply have changed who they arrested to screw us either way and then we wouldn't have any items AND we'd have lost the camp, lose lose or lose-win, I'll take what we got at this point.

My worry wasn't an arrest, which we knew nothing about. It was faking work. And of course you're right, they still could have screwed us. But we could have made it so that they had to have several people fake, which would have made it more obvious at least. As I suggested at the time, if we had overloaded food, which had a lot of people on it, we would have forced them to either fake one of the jobs with just a few specialists on it, and make an easy target for us, or to have a bunch of wolves on food faking their work. That seems a better outcome than what we got.

And frankly, if the three people on the mission couldn't make any difference than we just can't win the game. We need everybody who's a villager to at least try to win the camp.

[Poli]

I hope it rubs you the wrong way. It doesn't really bother me in the slightest. I didn't sense any urgency for us 'not' to go on the mission when I checked in and saw what I saw.

You'll clearly see it a different way.

[Poli]

Today there is a mission. Today's mission is simple.

Drawdy Creek contains an old railroad dept and stock yard used decades before. The area is notorious for having a lot of old and useful items from that area around them.

Mission is due by 3 pm.

Any player, whatever their allegiance, may go on this mission with a high probability that you will find an item of usefulness. It is not guaranteed, but many can really help your side.

As opposed to most missions, you will know the results of this one via pm after it is processed at 3.

GOING ON MISSION.

I think my searching ability means I'll come up with something useful.

God speed, path. I guess we can be taken out of this game after all.
For those interested, the number of Pass posts between Abe's and mine: 0. So I didn't see a darn thing you typed before I left for the day, Pass.

[Poli]

Err, wait. That was for the mission. I thought that was the whole day. Let me go back again.

[Abe Sargent]

Abe -- is the amount of work we have to do to convert each camp a function of how many people are alive, or does it simply go down each day based on the assumption that there will be less people alive as the game goes on? Or does it have nothing to do with either?

Hmm. It went up from 29 to 32 today, right? Blah.

It's a secret

[Passacaglia]

For those interested, the number of Pass posts between Abe's and mine: 0. So I didn't see a darn thing you typed before I left for the day, Pass.


VOTE POLI


That's just a lie.

[Poli]

Nevermind, Abe posted the camp stuff right before the mission post.

[Passacaglia]

Err, wait. That was for the mission. I thought that was the whole day. Let me go back again.

Okay.


UNVOTE POLI

[Poli]

Today there is a mission. Today's mission is simple.

Drawdy Creek contains an old railroad dept and stock yard used decades before. The area is notorious for having a lot of old and useful items from that area around them.

Mission is due by 3 pm.

Any player, whatever their allegiance, may go on this mission with a high probability that you will find an item of usefulness. It is not guaranteed, but many can really help your side.

As opposed to most missions, you will know the results of this one via pm after it is processed at 3.

In 1897, in a push to get District 17 mobilized, famous labor leaders such as Eugene V Debs, Mother Jones and Samuel Gompers arrive and began to make speeches, as did the best leaders from other unions such as United Brotherhood of Carpenters, Street Railway Employees, International machinists’ Union, and the Amalgamated Association of Iron and Steel Workers.

Governor Atkinson is sent a letter by the UMW to have some meetings and hash out some of the issues facing labor in the state and labor/management relations. He sends back a letter saying he doesn’t want to do it, and then beings to use federal injunctions to break up strikes.


ok, Paths death is interesting.

Really solid vet who hasn't played much lately. That leads me to believe another vet took him out.

looking at the list of people who know how solid Path is I am drawn to

Lathum
Render
Barkeep
ChiefRum
Passacaglia
DL
Heinz
PB
NTNDeacon

I realize that is a large list.

Plus, my theory as to why it was a poor idea to reveal is being played out. IIRC Path DID NOT reveal.

Hmm, today's going to be tough. I don't think we'll be able to afford to "go extra" on these tasks, so obviously that's a concern (and with one less villager, too).

I can at least take care of half of Patrolling. I said I would reveal it if it came up, and here it is. Patrolling is my skill, and I do it 3x as good as a normal person.

So I will put in for Patrolling, and get us halfway there at least.

WORK ON PATROLLING

While I agree with your underlying theory (that a vet was involved in this), fact is, it only takes one, and the wolves can communicate privately (or actually don't recall reading that, but I assume, standard WW fare and all). And I would be pretty shocked in a game that has to have at least three wolves and probably more wouldn't have at least one on a list of nine people (almost half of the game roster).

In other words, this is something to keep in mind, but we're going to need a lot more (unfortunately).

Haven't really caught up much yet, but good result.

Haha. I'm not on your list!

I'll give you one more of these and then I'm off to bed until morning.


By 1898 coal owners in other states began to use West Virginia as their reason for not giving workers more. They claimed that the non-union WV was making coal cheaper, and they could not afford salary increases or more benefits when competing against them. Unionize WV they claimed.

I guess I need to pony up

I am x3 on food distrinution

Work on food distribution

I just read the mission and daily goal. I have a possibility to throw out today. What if all 20 of us go on the mission? Yeah I know this screws us for the day in converting the camps, but just assuming everyone got an item (Abe only said most will) that would mean anywhere from 14-16 villagers with items and 3-5 wolves with items.

If it is decided this a bad idea, I will be working in food distribution since it is my specialty even though I do want an item!

yeah.

I'm drunk

I've only been playing about a year on here, but I know Path can be a strong player. I think this list would be just as likely to include me as any of those here which means it probably could include others.

yeah

I'm drunk.

dola- not a fan of all going on the mission. I have a feeling if we all abandon the effort to convert people to the union it will have bad effects

Interesting concept, and not one I am against if it's an idea that gains some momentum. I have already put in my work task, of course, but I think I read I can get out of that, if needed.

I guess people need to ask themselves if we all think today's camp is achievable, or if we're looking at a serious uphill battle? Yesterday, we needed 18 "credits" toward work. Today? 29. Ouch.

Also quite conceivable. I guess the question is if no one does work, is it worse than just not completing all the work? Or is it just either "the work is done" or "the work isn't done", and it doesn't matter if the units toward work are one short or 20 short.

Well I don't appear to be any help on the work today other than 1 unit so I will wait to see what we decide. I think I'm leaning towards going on the mission.

GOING ON MISSION.

I think my searching ability means I'll come up with something useful.

God speed, path. I guess we can be taken out of this game after all.
I'll take that apology, Pass.

[Autumn]

I think I've made myself clear enough and I'm going to back off for a while. I don't have any chief suspect, but I am looking at everybody who went to the mission, backed off or not.

Poli, who went on early and seemingly never came back to check in.

Purdue who went early and then backed off, conceivably as the wolves got the right numbers

Render who went on the mission when it was seeming clear (to me) that the numbers weren't going to work and didn't come back to back off.

Jackal who went on the mission late and though saying he was willing to back off, and clearly aware of the problem, stayed on.

TheNorm who joined the mission very late, really resisted coming off then backed off from the pressure. Claimed he was hoping to find a gun.

I'm eager to hear other suspects but right now that's all I've got.

[Passacaglia]

Abe, can we get an answer on CR's question? My hunch is that the 2nd one is true -- the rules say we must convert a certain number of camps in a certain number of days, so if we take the rules at their word, it seems like it wouldn't matter.

So I'm inclined to lean toward agreeing with Danny, but if we have the roles for it, I think this town CAN be converted. If we have two patrollers at x3 (CR plus one more), three food distributors at x3 and 6 at x1, and three organizers at x3, we're getting the job done with 14 out of 19 people, and the rest can be used as backup. This is a best-case scenario, of course -- so far, we only have one patroller, two food distributors, and no organizers (so I don't even know if it's x2 or x3). But hopefully we learn more as the morning progresses.

Yikes, two mission posts as I was typing that. I'm heading to work, but I hope we're not deciding to punt on the camps this early in the day. And I'm really skeptical of people who choose to go on the mission, since it brings a benefit to those who go on it, regardless of allegiance.

PB, are you a searcher type?

You were definitely online after my posts. Not only that, one of the posts you just quoted has Danny suggesting that we not even bother with the camps, so that we all go on the mission. And you tell me you thought we had the camps covered?

I'm sorry....that you're a liar!

VOTE POLI

[Abe Sargent]

I will not be available this afternoon or early evening. Just letting you know now so if you were all "WHERE IS THE SEXY ABE?" you'll know.

[Barkeep49]

So, you'd suggest instead of trying to find a Sympathizer I do what? Isn't this the point of the game, to attempt to guess who is a Sympathizer? Give me a break.
The point of the game is to win camps. Find a sympathizer should help us with that but it is not the point of the game.

I pretty much agree with Autumn, as I did yesterday.

[Poli]

Pass, you're really going to...nevermind. I'm done here.

YOU CLEARLY DID NOT POST AFTER THE CAMP/MISSION STUFF WENT UP.

[Autumn]

Well, point well taken, barkeep. But one of our goals today is to find a Sympathizer.

[Barkeep49]

The point of the game is to win camps. Find a sympathizer should help us with that but it is not the point of the game.

I pretty much agree with Autumn, as I did yesterday.
Gosh a lot of posts went inbetween when I started reading this page and made this post. When I said I agree with Autumn I was talking about post 961.

[Autumn]

Besides finding someone to oust, I'd like to see us get these jobs covered. We need one more person on Oratory, three on Treasury and 2 on organization, I believe (assuming Schmidty signs up there).

[Poli]

VOTE PASS

[Poli]

DON'T ORGANIZE
DO NOTHING

[Poli]

I guess I also didn't pass of the shotgun, and that I'm not the bodyguard, either.

I'm not white, and I guess I can't be bribed, either.

Knock yourself out.