Werewolf XCVI: The Dark One and The Order of Righteousness (GAME OVER EVIL WINS)

[Autumn]

Man, I wish I could oversleep. Sounds nice.

[dubb93]

Morning comes early and you can't help but notice that todays newspaper is quite thin indeed. You pick it up and the headline jumps out at you.

Diffama Fabula Beheaded

You read on:

Diffama Fabula was found dead in her seaside home last night.........murdered.....grotesque.....head was removed from her body......any information please notify your local law enforcement agency.

This is very disturbing news indeed. Why would anyone want to murder Diffama Fabula you wonder as you come across the following correspondence from prison.

I am officially bored.

My favorite bard is David Gahan. I like playing cards. Ha ha, you all have to read this, it's my one note to the world for the day. My favorite color is purple. I have four sisters, two of whom are black. I think Crash was the most overrated movie of the past ten years, could there be a more unsubtle film? I have a man crush on George Clooney. My favorite site in West Virginia to visit on vacations is Prabhupada's Palace of Gold. My second favorite is Cranberry Glades.
--Abe Sargent

You spend much less time than you had anticipated reading the very small newspaper today.

Day 4 has begun. Deadline is 11p est.

1. Barkeep49
2. lerriuqs
3. USFLTechmo
4. Abe - Jailed Day 3
5. MartinD
6. <s>hoopsguy</s> - Vanilla Villager, Killed Night 1
7. Passacaglia - Elected King Day 3
8. Telle
9. The Jackal
10. <s>Danny</s> - Lord Righteous, Killed Night 2
11. Autumn
12. Lathum
13. SnDvls
14. RendeR
15. Chief Rum
16. saldana
17. <s>DaddyTorgo</s> - Diffama Fabula, Killed Night 3
18. <s>Tyrith</s> - The Dark One, Duked Day 2 by Schmidty
19. path12
20. KWhit
21. <s>Schmidty</s> - Elected King Day 1, Killed Day 2 by Tyrith, Vanilla Villager

Diffama Fabula -- Each night as a night action you may submit a story to me. This can be absolutely anything you can think of or wish to post. This is your chance to say anything you wish without actually attaching the name DaddyTorgo to it.

I will then post this story with the name Diffama Fabula attached to it when I run night actions.

[Lathum]

I should be studying for my final that I have later today instead of constantly hitting F5

[Autumn]

Huh, another lucky strike I guess? Although I never quite understood how Diffama could be helpful to us anyway unless "she" had some powers we didn't know about.

[Lathum]

Vote KWhit


fast enough Pass?

His logic IMO is just so far off. I will obviously change my vote if Pass has some damning info on Abe

[Telle]

Vote KWhit


fast enough Pass?

His logic IMO is just so far off. I will obviously change my vote if Pass has some damning info on Abe

Lynch or jail?

[dubb93]

Every PM should have been sent out at this time.

[Lathum]

oops.

VOTE LYNCH KWHIT

[Passacaglia]

So you're off Autumn now?

[DaddyTorgo]

damnit

go villagers!

[Lathum]

So you're off Autumn now?

for now, I still don't like how he was all over the place, but KWhit's continued comments this morning just can't be ignored.

He keeps insisting jail is good, yet I can't recall a game where on day 4 we have had such little info to go on.

Honestly, does anyone have even a halfway educated guess about where to go?

[Tyrith]

for now, I still don't like how he was all over the place, but KWhit's continued comments this morning just can't be ignored.

He keeps insisting jail is good, yet I can't recall a game where on day 4 we have had such little info to go on.

Honestly, does anyone have even a halfway educated guess about where to go?

You could drag my corpse out of the ground and lynch it.

[Passacaglia]

Lets get another candidate going, then.


VOTE LERRIUQS LYNCH

[Lathum]

Pass, I take it you got no info on Abe?

[lerriuqs]

Lets get another candidate going, then.


VOTE LERRIUQS LYNCH


Based on what exactly?

[Passacaglia]

Pass, I take it you got no info on Abe?

Right.

[Autumn]

Honestly, does anyone have even a halfway educated guess about where to go?

I don't, that's for sure. I'm going to wait and see who's offered up and see what I think of that.

But in KWhit's defense, despite having nothing to go on after this time, I can continue to see the appeal of jail. Getting possibly free scans is enticing, especially when we're voting on basically nothing. I'm still tempted to jail, especially now with a king I have good trust in, though I see your points, Lathum, about the value of a real voting record.

[Passacaglia]

Based on what exactly?

Just feel like I haven't heard much from you and USFLTecmo, and since I saw you were in the thread, I chose you.

[lerriuqs]

Just feel like I haven't heard much from you and USFLTecmo, and since I saw you were in the thread, I chose you.

What's there to tell? I have nothing, no idea who to lynch - I guess all the things that Lathum said apply - it's a hard Day 4 to get info out of. I can tell you that you won't get a wolf today if you lynch me.

[RendeR]

Lets get another candidate going, then.


VOTE LERRIUQS LYNCH




Tell us why? I mean I'm all for another target but he seems sort of out of left field?

[Passacaglia]

What's there to tell? I have nothing, no idea who to lynch - I guess all the things that Lathum said apply - it's a hard Day 4 to get info out of. I can tell you that you won't get a wolf today if you lynch me.

Oh, I won't? Thanks.


UNVOTE LERRIUQS LYNCH

[Lathum]

Right.

Well this clearing people from jail thing is working out great!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

[RendeR]

Nevermind, you answered this.

[Passacaglia]

Tell us why? I mean I'm all for another target but he seems sort of out of left field?

I just thought we should have two candidates -- I don't like having just one.

Come to think of it, maybe I shouldn't take that backwards squirrel's word for it that he's not a wolf....hmm....


VOTE LERRIUQS LYNCH

[lerriuqs]

Oh, I won't? Thanks.


UNVOTE LERRIUQS LYNCH



:)

[lerriuqs]

I just thought we should have two candidates -- I don't like having just one.

Come to think of it, maybe I shouldn't take that backwards squirrel's word for it that he's not a wolf....hmm....


VOTE LERRIUQS LYNCH


;)

[RendeR]

For those complaining that we haven't learned anything I beg to differ:

The Dark One was killed
We trust our current King
We Semi-trust Abe and are simply awaiting verification.

WE HAVEN"T LOST 2 VILLAGERS A NIGHT.


But go right on ahead trying to sell everyone that lynching is still the better choice. Really. I mean it...Try.

[Autumn]

I'm not against targeting the quieter players, since we have nothing much to go on. I'm a bit disturbed whenever we point a vote at someone who's been silent and seconds later they're there defending themselves. It makes me wonder and it's happened several times this game. I know some people just have a quiet playing style but I have a hard time with that when it's holding us back. It would help if everyone offered some analysis other than "I'm a vanilla villager."

[lerriuqs]

For those complaining that we haven't learned anything I beg to differ:

The Dark One was killed
We trust our current King
We Semi-trust Abe and are simply awaiting verification.

WE HAVEN"T LOST 2 VILLAGERS A NIGHT.


But go right on ahead trying to sell everyone that lynching is still the better choice. Really. I mean it...Try.

And the seer has had three night scans - so we possibly have up to three more we can trust...

[SnDvls]

LOL at Pass

those comments crack me up with the lynch / unlynch votes

thanks for making my morning brighter today :)

[Lathum]

I don't, that's for sure. I'm going to wait and see who's offered up and see what I think of that.

But in KWhit's defense, despite having nothing to go on after this time, I can continue to see the appeal of jail. Getting possibly free scans is enticing, especially when we're voting on basically nothing. I'm still tempted to jail, especially now with a king I have good trust in, though I see your points, Lathum, about the value of a real voting record.

You guys seriously need to start to understand that you are being way to enticed by the 20% possibility of a free scan. Lets say we jail someone else today, that means tomorrow we have 2 20% shots at an accurate scan, not good odds.

When will you guys decide to abandon the notion that we are going to clear people in jail?

Now Autumn, you seem to be coming around, KWhit isn't and it has to be for a reason, I feel VERY strongly he is the way to go today since he continues to sell snake oil.

[RendeR]

And the seer has had three night scans - so we possibly have up to three more we can trust...



very good point.

[RendeR]

You guys seriously need to start to understand that you are being way to enticed by the 20% possibility of a free scan. Lets say we jail someone else today, that means tomorrow we have 2 20% shots at an accurate scan, not good odds.

When will you guys decide to abandon the notion that we are going to clear people in jail?

Now Autumn, you seem to be coming around, KWhit isn't and it has to be for a reason, I feel VERY strongly he is the way to go today since he continues to sell snake oil.


When the idea of having a LIVING villager stops being obviously more important than having a DEAD villager.

[SnDvls]

I'm not against targeting the quieter players, since we have nothing much to go on. I'm a bit disturbed whenever we point a vote at someone who's been silent and seconds later they're there defending themselves. It makes me wonder and it's happened several times this game. I know some people just have a quiet playing style but I have a hard time with that when it's holding us back. It would help if everyone offered some analysis other than "I'm a vanilla villager."

sometimes there isn't anything to offer because as a vanilla villager we have no info.

we can't PM, we have no night action, we have no special powers, all we can do is sit back and see what others do and react to that. Day 1 & 2 in a game with Jail makes it even harder as we are still blind with little to no info.

[lerriuqs]

I'm not against targeting the quieter players, since we have nothing much to go on. I'm a bit disturbed whenever we point a vote at someone who's been silent and seconds later they're there defending themselves. It makes me wonder and it's happened several times this game. I know some people just have a quiet playing style but I have a hard time with that when it's holding us back. It would help if everyone offered some analysis other than "I'm a vanilla villager."

Whatever. It's funny, people throw out votes to get some talking more then they do and you still complain.

And how the hell is a quieter playing style holding us back?? It's a different type of game than your normal werewolf - there hasn't been as much to comment on. But if you want to lynch me for holding you back go ahead.

[Lathum]

And the seer has had three night scans - so we possibly have up to three more we can trust...

this is true, but i think it best the seer stays quiet

[Autumn]

KWhit isn't and it has to be for a reason, I feel VERY strongly he is the way to go today since he continues to sell snake oil.

This is the part I don't buy. I think it's possible he just disagrees with you.

While I see that you feel it's in the wolves' interest to keep jailing, I dont think they'd have one of them pushing for it so vocally. Unless we actually have a wolf up as the main target I dont' think it pays for them to stick their necks out about it. Chances are if we do lynch we'll lynch a villager so it would be odd for KWhit, if a wolf, to consistently stand up as a target on this issue.

[Autumn]

sometimes there isn't anything to offer because as a vanilla villager we have no info.

we can't PM, we have no night action, we have no special powers, all we can do is sit back and see what others do and react to that. Day 1 & 2 in a game with Jail makes it even harder as we are still blind with little to no info.

So do you think everyone who is talking a lot is either a wolf or a roled villager?

[KWhit]

For those complaining that we haven't learned anything I beg to differ:

The Dark One was killed
We trust our current King
We Semi-trust Abe and are simply awaiting verification.

WE HAVEN"T LOST 2 VILLAGERS A NIGHT.


But go right on ahead trying to sell everyone that lynching is still the better choice. Really. I mean it...Try.

And the seer has had three night scans - so we possibly have up to three more we can trust...

This and this.

[path12]

And yet another day 1 begins.

My vote today will be for someone who votes to jail rather than lynch.

[Lathum]

This is the part I don't buy. I think it's possible he just disagrees with you.

While I see that you feel it's in the wolves' interest to keep jailing, I dont think they'd have one of them pushing for it so vocally. Unless we actually have a wolf up as the main target I dont' think it pays for them to stick their necks out about it. Chances are if we do lynch we'll lynch a villager so it would be odd for KWhit, if a wolf, to consistently stand up as a target on this issue.

I'm not so certain of that, sometimes the best way is to hide in the open.

I just find it staggering that on D4 we have so little info to go with and people are still advocating clearing people through jail.

Now obviously the seer has some info, but IMO with probably 3 wolves still out there I think it best the seer stays quiet unless they have a VERY good reason to reveal.

[Autumn]

And how the hell is a quieter playing style holding us back?? It's a different type of game than your normal werewolf - there hasn't been as much to comment on. But if you want to lynch me for holding you back go ahead.

I'm not lynching you, I haven't even voted for you.

I think it holds us back because A) we have to wonder whether the quiet players are UTR wolves and B) We don't get input from all the players, so we're being guided by the few who are willing to talk, and we know at some of those are wolves.

If you know you're good I feel like you've got to be willing to stick your neck out and offer out thoughts or else you're playing into the wolves' hands. That's just my playing thoughts, obviously not everybody's. But having to vote people just to get them to talk seems counter productive to me.

But thank you for talking. You made a good point about hte seer scans. We're on the edge here I think, having a lot of things going for us but easily able to shoot ourselves in the foot too.

[Chief Rum]

IMO, logic dictates that wolves are more likely to be in the "lynch" camp actually, especially with the Dark One dead, since they can't control the deaths of villagers in prison and are left concerned that the King might free everyone in the joint at any time. A wolf will want a lynch because that way, they know those villagers are dead and out of the game for sure.

So, IMO, some of the best wolf candidates are actually those supporting the lynch, rather than jail. This more goes for those who have supported lynching from the start. I more undertsand people leaning toward lynching today, as it is true that the jail mechanism devalues the voting records, which is entirely frustrating.

[Autumn]

Lathum, I agree with you only in the sense that if you and Path and who knows else are going to lynch people simply for suggesting jailing, then we really are in a hard spot. Obviously we're hard up for ideas if we're settling for that.

I could go either way today on jail or lynch, so feel free to vote me because of that, I guess.

[Lathum]

This and this.

you need to break some eggs to make an omlette.

and are you saying you think the seer should come out?

[Lathum]

IMO, logic dictates that wolves are more likely to be in the "lynch" camp actually, especially with the Dark One dead, since they can't control the deaths of villagers in prison and are left concerned that the King might free everyone in the joint at any time. A wolf will want a lynch because that way, they know those villagers are dead and out of the game for sure.

So, IMO, some of the best wolf candidates are actually those supporting the lynch, rather than jail. This more goes for those who have supported lynching from the start. I more undertsand people leaning toward lynching today, as it is true that the jail mechanism devalues the voting records, which is entirely frustrating.

I'm not so sure. If I was a wolf I would be in the jail camp. There are still villagers that can be killed, there is only a 20% chance of a scan, and the jailed villagers can't use their abilities from prison and don't count towards victory conditions.

[RendeR]

Thank you for stating so clearly what I have been having trouble getting out of my head CR.

[Lathum]

Lathum, I agree with you only in the sense that if you and Path and who knows else are going to lynch people simply for suggesting jailing, then we really are in a hard spot. Obviously we're hard up for ideas if we're settling for that.

I could go either way today on jail or lynch, so feel free to vote me because of that, I guess.

I think we should lynch KWhit because of his blind insistence on how jailing is good in the obvious face of the opposite.

[Autumn]

So, IMO, some of the best wolf candidates are actually those supporting the lynch, rather than jail. This more goes for those who have supported lynching from the start. I more undertsand people leaning toward lynching today, as it is true that the jail mechanism devalues the voting records, which is entirely frustrating.

Who are those people? I think Lathum has flopped somewhat on the issue, wasn't he stressing patience earlier? Path I think has urged jail on day one and then lynching the other days. I can't remember right now who else has been vocal on this.

[lerriuqs]

you need to break some eggs to make an omlette.

and are you saying you think the seer should come out?

If they've got a wolf, yes. The jail mechanic would be helpful then.

Assuming our BG hasn't already protected them - they protect the seer tonight, get another scan and we jail the seer tomorrow to protect them and then the king frees the seer and the BG can protect again.

If they don't have a wolf though, no, the seer should stay hidden.

[Autumn]

If they've got a wolf, yes. The jail mechanic would be helpful then.

Assuming our BG hasn't already protected them - they protect the seer tonight, get another scan and we jail the seer tomorrow to protect them and then the king frees the seer and the BG can protect again.

If they don't have a wolf though, no, the seer should stay hidden.

Pretty clever plan, Lerriuqs, nice. I hadn't thought about the jail like that.

[Telle]

Just a strategy question... how many days should a seer stay quiet if they don't find a wolf? Because you do have to worry that eventually the wolves will get lucky with a night kill and you lose the knowledge of a CoT that the seer has built.

[KWhit]

you need to break some eggs to make an omlette.

and are you saying you think the seer should come out?

Of course not.

[KWhit]

IMO, logic dictates that wolves are more likely to be in the "lynch" camp actually, especially with the Dark One dead, since they can't control the deaths of villagers in prison and are left concerned that the King might free everyone in the joint at any time. A wolf will want a lynch because that way, they know those villagers are dead and out of the game for sure.

So, IMO, some of the best wolf candidates are actually those supporting the lynch, rather than jail. This more goes for those who have supported lynching from the start. I more undertsand people leaning toward lynching today, as it is true that the jail mechanism devalues the voting records, which is entirely frustrating.

Yes to all of this. Something I have been saying since day one.

[lerriuqs]

Just a strategy question... how many days should a seer stay quiet if they don't find a wolf? Because you do have to worry that eventually the wolves will get lucky with a night kill and you lose the knowledge of a CoT that the seer has built.

Based on what I've seen - Day 4 or so seems to be about the limit here...

[Chief Rum]

I'm not so sure. If I was a wolf I would be in the jail camp. There are still villagers that can be killed, there is only a 20% chance of a scan, and the jailed villagers can't use their abilities from prison and don't count towards victory conditions.

I think a wolf would be comfortable with jailing if that was the way the village was going, because of the reasons you give here. But I think given the choice, they would rather lynch than jail. That just makes more sense for them, for the reasons I stated above.

In particular, I find it unlikely that people standing adamantly in support of jail over lynch, such that they are vehemently defending the action, are wolves. That is nonsensicle. Why would a wolf staunchly defend the less preferable option of the two for his side, especially when it puts a target on him for said defense, and it is perfectly reasonable to support lynching as a villager?

I don't necessarily think we should look exclusively at lynch supporters for a wolf, but I do think it's entirely illogical to insist on going after players who are clearly 100% for jailing and loudly defending it. If KWhit's a wolf, he's being an extremely poor one.

[KWhit]

If they've got a wolf, yes. The jail mechanic would be helpful then.

Assuming our BG hasn't already protected them - they protect the seer tonight, get another scan and we jail the seer tomorrow to protect them and then the king frees the seer and the BG can protect again.

If they don't have a wolf though, no, the seer should stay hidden.

Ooooo, I like that.

[Passacaglia]

I think we should lynch KWhit because of his blind insistence on how jailing is good in the obvious face of the opposite.

Why him? It doesn't seem like he's the only one.

[KWhit]

I think we should lynch KWhit because of his blind insistence on how jailing is good in the obvious face of the opposite.

Obvious face of the opposite? That's crap and you know it. There are as many people who feel that jailing is the best course of action as do lynching. It's quite clear that it is NOT obvious.

[Lathum]

I think a wolf would be comfortable with jailing if that was the way the village was going, because of the reasons you give here. But I think given the choice, they would rather lynch than jail. That just makes more sense for them, for the reasons I stated above.

In particular, I find it unlikely that people standing adamantly in support of jail over lynch, such that they are vehemently defending the action, are wolves. That is nonsensicle. Why would a wolf staunchly defend the less preferable option of the two for his side, especially when it puts a target on him for said defense, and it is perfectly reasonable to support lynching as a villager?

I don't necessarily think we should look exclusively at lynch supporters for a wolf, but I do think it's entirely illogical to insist on going after players who are clearly 100% for jailing and loudly defending it. If KWhit's a wolf, he's being an extremely poor one.

which is exactlly why he does it if he is a wolf, so people will say " he would never act that way!"

[Chief Rum]

BTW, something to keep in mind that I noted from the rules.

The Cultist is also a seer, and has been able to scan every night. That person is, of course, not inclined to help the village.

[RendeR]

I'm really not thrilled on the seer coming out unless they've actually GOTTEN a wolf.

[Chief Rum]

which is exactlly why he does it if he is a wolf, so people will say " he would never act that way!"

Bull. Occam's Razor. There other, easier ways to establish a little trust as a wolf than to get into a loud debate about mechanics, especially when we run into this so often, where people doggedly say things like "I'm voting for anyone who votes for jail"; etc.

It's dogheadedness like that that will lose us the game.

[Passacaglia]

I'm really not thrilled on the seer coming out unless they've actually GOTTEN a wolf.

I think it depends on how we play the jail/lynch thing out. If we are lynching, the chance that the wolves hit the seer really ramps up as days go by.

[Autumn]

which is exactlly why he does it if he is a wolf, so people will say " he would never act that way!"

So now you're saying that if someone's arguing loudly for something that is good for the village (which was Chief's argument) that they're a wolf. While that's certainly possible I don't think that's the strongest evidence to vote with.

[lerriuqs]

BTW, something to keep in mind that I noted from the rules.

The Cultist is also a seer, and has been able to scan every night. That person is, of course, not inclined to help the village.

Just read it too - the way it reads, we don't even have to worry about him unless the Dark One can be reborn...Only the Dark One can convert him.

So is everyone assuming 3 wolves plus cultist or 4 wolves and cultist? We're looking at either 2 or 3 wolves now, based on that...

[Telle]

I'm really not thrilled on the seer coming out unless they've actually GOTTEN a wolf.

But eventually, knowing that X number of villagers are good is as good of information as knowing that 1 is bad. The question is.. what number is X?

And no, in case anyone's wondering, I'm not the seer trying to figure out when to reveal.

[SnDvls]

Final Day 1 Vote Count:

Pass Jail - 10 - Clap (222), USFL (253), MartinD (261), Hoops (300), path12 (344), Tyrith (366), lerriuqs (372), Pass (380), Jackal (383), BK (395)
BK Jail - 8 - Lathum (177), Render (210), SnDvLs (233), DT (235), saldana (278), CR (295), Danny (349), Kwhit (369)
KWhit Jail - 2 - Autumn (254), Telle (320)
KWhit Lynch - 1 - Schmidty (298)

Day 2 Final Vote Count:

Abe/Clap Jail - 5 - USFL (528), Telle (618), DT (624), CR (626), KWhit (666)
BK Jail - 4 - Lathum (497), MartinD (527), Sndvls (532), lerriuqs (547)
Abe/Clap Lynch - 3 - Saldana (503), The Jackal (560), BK (698)
Pass Jail - 3 - Tyrith (718), Autumn (770), RendeR (783)
USFL Lynch - 2 - Path (557), Schmidty (558)
KWhit Lynch - 1 - Clap (656)
Telle Jail - 1 - Danny (736)

Final Day 3 Vote Count:

Abe Jail - 6 - RendeR (1056), CR (1060), Jackal (1063), lerriuqs (1065), KWhit (1095), DT (1168)
Abe Lynch - 4 - Path (1042), Martin (1045), USFLTecmo (1074), BK (1108)
Autumn Lynch - 4 - SnDvls (1050), Lathum (1077), Saldana (1178), Pass (1194)
DaddyTorgo Jail - 3 - Autumn (1087), Abe (1112), Telle (1126)

[Lathum]

OK, I like lerriuqs plan, will be gone soon so I need to get it out there now.

I'm Crystal Oculo, I scanned BK N1 which is why my turnaround on him about being king.

N2 I scanned Pass because of his escape.

Last night I scanned KWhit based on his insistence about jail and he came up as having a dark auroa. Thats why I came out the way I did today


we need to start buillding a CoT

[Autumn]

Well my list of people I poked at yesterday as targest were Sndvls, DaddyT, Saldana and KWhit. As I siad yesterda, I dind't find anything on KWhit when I looked back at it, and the argument this morning has me also thinking it's unlikely he's a wolf. DaddyT obviously turned out to be good, which shows how much I know.

Sndvls still has me suspicious though that may be colored by his seeming enthusiastic attempt to paint me bad yesterday. Still, his comment this morning and then no answer to this question still leaves me wondering.

Saldana I thought has been very quiet, blew in yesterday huffy about me calling him quiet and then blew out again as far as I can see?

Who else do we have on people's Hmmmm list? Or thoughts on mine.

[Passacaglia]

I had Lathum as the seer anyway.


UNVOTE LERRIUQS LYNCH
VOTE KWHIT LYNCH

[Autumn]

Wow, forget my nonsense, lol.

And Sndvls, I see you were busy working, thanks.

[Autumn]

I did not have Lathum as the seer, I'm really bad at this.

<b>vote kwhit lynch</b>

I'm willing to stick this up there until I hear some reason not to believe Lathum. His story makes sense, but I'd expect that of a Lathum-wolf too.

[Passacaglia]

I did not have Lathum as the seer, I'm really bad at this.

<b>vote kwhit lynch</b>

I'm willing to stick this up there until I hear some reason not to believe Lathum. His story makes sense, but I'd expect that of a Lathum-wolf too.

The turnaround on BK was what tipped me off -- although he could also have been setting himself up to claim seer. I don't think he would do that right before leaving, though -- but if someone else claims it, I'll definitely hear them out.

[KWhit]

OK, I like lerriuqs plan, will be gone soon so I need to get it out there now.

I'm Crystal Oculo, I scanned BK N1 which is why my turnaround on him about being king.

N2 I scanned Pass because of his escape.

Last night I scanned KWhit based on his insistence about jail and he came up as having a dark auroa. Thats why I came out the way I did today


we need to start buillding a CoT


Lie. Fake reveal.

Lathum is not the seer. I don't know who is, but I am a normal villager.

Do not believe him at all.

[lerriuqs]

vote kwhit lynch

I have to go do some work but I'll check in later.

[RendeR]

L@@KS

[SnDvls]

VOTE LYNCH KWHIT

gotta go with this unless we have a counter then it's an either or vote and the other goes tomorrow.

Usually the person who comes out 1st is the teller of truths

[SnDvls]

If they've got a wolf, yes. The jail mechanic would be helpful then.

Assuming our BG hasn't already protected them - they protect the seer tonight, get another scan and we jail the seer tomorrow to protect them and then the king frees the seer and the BG can protect again.

If they don't have a wolf though, no, the seer should stay hidden.

only issue I have with this is what if the king is killed before freeing the prisoners? Then the BG and all that stuff is thrown off as we have to elect a new king first.

[Autumn]

My first thought is that this makes Abe look good, as KWhit was very vocal about Tyrith being bad casting Clap/Abe in a bad light. I would still keep Abe in jail and hope for a free scan on him but looking at the voting records I'm going to assume then that Abe is good.

[Autumn]

only issue I have with this is what if the king is killed before freeing the prisoners? Then the BG and all that stuff is thrown off as we have to elect a new king first.

Good point but with these scans we should be able to elect in a cleared person. The election goes through durign the day so the king should be able to free at night still, right?

[Chief Rum]

Guys, keep in mind, we have a Cultist. He may not be able to be converted, but he is not on our side.

From the rules:

Drago Prodo - If attempted to be night killed by The Dark One, Drago will become a follower. If any other follower attempts to kill Drago, Drago will be killed as a follower would not dare disobey a kill order from The Dark One. You do not know who The Dark One or his followers are. You count as a villager unless you are converted. You win with The Followers of the Dark One.

Drago is a skilled seer and may scan one player each night to determine that player's aura. Will read The Dark One as having a light aura. Drago has spent his life studying The Dark One and as such has himself become corrupted. While not a skilled knight The Dark One may yet have use for Drago. If Drago becomes converted he is only able to have a 50% success rate on a kill attempt and will himself be killed if he encounters a member of The Order of Righteousness. Drago performs kills with poison. While lethal, with Drago having no formal combat training and instead living the life of a scholar, Drago finds himself having trouble getting close enough to administer the poison. If Drago does not become converted he still may have a chance to perform a night kill. There also may be other conversion mechanics at work to get Drago on the side of The Dark One. However these mechanics are known only to Drago.

[SnDvls]

So do you think everyone who is talking a lot is either a wolf or a roled villager?

to answer your question no.

but as I said before about being quiet...if I have nothing to offer to the conversation I see no need in padding my post count with useless info. It just makes it harder for people who need to catch up and provides nothing to the game or how to judge me good or bad for the other villagers.

[path12]

especially when we run into this so often, where people doggedly say things like "I'm voting for anyone who votes for jail"; etc.

It's dogheadedness like that that will lose us the game.

I certainly can be dogheaded, but to be fair this is the first day I flat out stated I'd vote for someone who voted to jail rather than lynch.

It's been FOUR DAYS now and we haven't gained a thing with the jail strategy. You might argue that 'well, that's good guys who haven't been lynched', but it's just as valid to say we haven't gotten any closer to finding a wolf because we have no voting records and we very well might have lynched one if we'd gone that way.

We have managed to lose four villagers anyway though. I'm not going to argue the point anymore though, my feelings are pretty clear I think. :)

[Passacaglia]

Guys, keep in mind, we have a Cultist. He may not be able to be converted, but he is not on our side.



I have that in mind, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

[KWhit]

I am not sure why Lathum's doing this now. I suppose to smoke out the real seer. But we have a pretty good plan in place to protect the seer by jailing him and bodyguarding him.

Hmmmm....

[Autumn]

If Drago does not become converted he still may have a chance to perform a night kill. There also may be other conversion mechanics at work to get Drago on the side of The Dark One. However these mechanics are known only to Drago.[/i]

This was very interesting, as I had forgotten this aspect of the role.

[path12]

And what do you know, we get some info.

VOTE LYNCH KWHIT

I'm not 100% on this because of the cultist angle but until or unless better/different/more compelling info comes out I see no reason to do anything else.

[RendeR]

hrm, gotta go feed the munchkins, I'll come back to see the fireworks =)

[Autumn]

It's a good point Chief, in that even if a seer's scan proves to be correct they could be using that to buy our favor and get the real seer offed. But I think we can avoid that circumstance.

[Autumn]

Those hidden mechanics to convert Drago concern me. But I'm going to go have lunch and see what transpires this afternoon.

[Chief Rum]

I have that in mind, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

It's self-serving at this point for KWhit to say it, but I am suggesting that the Cultist could be doing scans as well, have scanned KWhit as light and wants to help the wolves. So he tries to smoke out the seer by revealing, and getting a villager lynched at the same time.

I don't know what Lathum's allegiance is, and he may indeed be the seer. But I am a bit skittish after last game when it comes to COTs, especially when the Cultist role is around. So I am a bit sensitive right now to getting the runaround here.

I guess there is one way to find out: we lynch KWhit.

VOTE LYNCH KWHIT

If Lathum is the seer, we're good. If he's not, I'll be really curious to see what the seer is doing.

[lerriuqs]

Lie. Fake reveal.

Lathum is not the seer. I don't know who is, but I am a normal villager.

Do not believe him at all.

Unfortunately for you, we can afford to take that chance - with only 5 villagers gone (assuming Abe in prison is one) and somewhere around an 11-3 or 12-2 ratio with the cultist not being converted - unless the Dark One is reborn (who knows there). If the real seer is still out there, I'd suggest them not revealing today unless they have another wolf.

[KWhit]

It's self-serving at this point for KWhit to say it, but I am suggesting that the Cultist could be doing scans as well, have scanned KWhit as light and wants to help the wolves. So he tries to smoke out the seer by revealing, and getting a villager lynched at the same time.

I don't know what Lathum's allegiance is, and he may indeed be the seer. But I am a bit skittish after last game when it comes to COTs, especially when the Cultist role is around. So I am a bit sensitive right now to getting the runaround here.

I guess there is one way to find out: we lynch KWhit.

VOTE LYNCH KWHIT

If Lathum is the seer, we're good. If he's not, I'll be really curious to see what the seer is doing.

Heh. I totally missed that angle on the seer. I don't know what game is being played here, but something is definitely up. Lathum is lying. I don't have any evidence to offer up at this point, but it is what it is.

Sounds like nobody is going to just take my word for it, though, so I'm likely at the mercy of the real seer to determine if I make it out.

Oh, and one other thing. If I am lynched, PLEASE lynch the hell out of Lathum tomorrow when I turn up as a villager.

When/if that does happen, he will probably come up with some lame ass lie about how he's really a villager who fake revealed just to shut me up because he knows that lynching is the way to go and had to get me out of the game because I'm doing a dis-service to the village by pushing for jailing. Don't you dare let him get away with that.

[KWhit]

Unfortunately for you, we can afford to take that chance.

Yes, I know. Which is why I don't understand why Lathum's doing it.

Well, it might make sense if he's the cultist or if he thinks he can get away with a lie about him trying to shut up the jail-first contingent.

But I just don't think it makes sense for this play right now from the wolves point of view.

[lerriuqs]

Okay...Some thoughts - If KWhit comes up innocent - what is Lathum's angle? The cultist? If so, is that unknown mechanic coming into play by lynching him? Perhaps we could consider jailing him tomorrow and having the king have him executed? Might get us around it...

[Passacaglia]

Okay...Some thoughts - If KWhit comes up innocent - what is Lathum's angle? The cultist? If so, is that unknown mechanic coming into play by lynching him? Perhaps we could consider jailing him tomorrow and having the king have him executed? Might get us around it...

Or just jail him and leave him there.

[lerriuqs]

Or just jail him and leave him there.

That works too except for the jailbreak option.

[Passacaglia]

That works too except for the jailbreak option.

That's assuming the Dark One is reborn or something, right? I'm fine assuming that won't happen.

[USFLTecmo]

VOTE LYNCH KWHIT

I subscribe to Chief Rum's theory.

[lerriuqs]

That's assuming the Dark One is reborn or something, right? I'm fine assuming that won't happen.

I believe any of the Dark Followers can break them out of jail.

[Passacaglia]

VOTE LYNCH KWHIT

I subscribe to Chief Rum's theory.

Which theory are you talking about?

[USFLTecmo]

It's self-serving at this point for KWhit to say it, but I am suggesting that the Cultist could be doing scans as well, have scanned KWhit as light and wants to help the wolves. So he tries to smoke out the seer by revealing, and getting a villager lynched at the same time.

I don't know what Lathum's allegiance is, and he may indeed be the seer. But I am a bit skittish after last game when it comes to COTs, especially when the Cultist role is around. So I am a bit sensitive right now to getting the runaround here.

I guess there is one way to find out: we lynch KWhit.

VOTE LYNCH KWHIT

If Lathum is the seer, we're good. If he's not, I'll be really curious to see what the seer is doing.

What I liked about his post is highlighted in italics.

[USFLTecmo]

Duh. How about I bold it next time? :P

[USFLTecmo]

It's self-serving at this point for KWhit to say it, but I am suggesting that the Cultist could be doing scans as well, have scanned KWhit as light and wants to help the wolves. So he tries to smoke out the seer by revealing, and getting a villager lynched at the same time.

I don't know what Lathum's allegiance is, and he may indeed be the seer. But I am a bit skittish after last game when it comes to COTs, especially when the Cultist role is around. So I am a bit sensitive right now to getting the runaround here.

I guess there is one way to find out: we lynch KWhit.

VOTE LYNCH KWHIT

If Lathum is the seer, we're good. If he's not, I'll be really curious to see what the seer is doing.

There, better.

[Passacaglia]

So you subscribe to his theory that we may be getting the runaround here, but you also agree the best move is to lynch KWhit?

[saldana]

For those complaining that we haven't learned anything I beg to differ:

The Dark One was killed
We trust our current King
We Semi-trust Abe and are simply awaiting verification.

WE HAVEN"T LOST 2 VILLAGERS A NIGHT.


But go right on ahead trying to sell everyone that lynching is still the better choice. Really. I mean it...Try.

the dark one was killed based on a hunch by a dead player...not based on evidence from the jailing process

we do trust our king, but for me, that trust is based much more on an uncontested reveal than it is on anything to do with the jailing process

we semi-trust abe, so are waiting for a 1 in 5 shot to find anything out about him....i will remind you that roulette wheels have no memories, so keeping him in there waiting for a positive scan is like putting your money on a different number because the one you wanted hit two spins ago.

we have not lost two villagers per day, but we are still on day one in terms of finding a wolf because of it.

And the seer has had three night scans - so we possibly have up to three more we can trust...

i guess you havent noticed that the people that are dying at night are also very likely people that were the targets of seer scans

hoops is always an early scan. period.
danny is, as far as I am concerned, a fantastic player, and when I was a wolf last game, I wanted to take him out on the third day.
DT is a vet that is always a great rolled villager.

all of those guys are people i would want to make sure were on my side if i was the seer..do you honestly think it is coincidence that they are the 3 night kills...the wolves probably have the exact same opinons as the seer.

not sure who is gonna get my vote at this point...either Kwhit or RendeR

[DaddyTorgo]

DT is a vet that is always a great rolled villager.



awww thanks for the vote of confidence! frankly i think i'm not a great rolled villager, but i appreciate the compliment!

go team!!

[saldana]

guess i should have finished reading...i was pretty sure on lathum as the seer as well...he even pointed out himself that he is a pitbull when he latches on to an idea, but he swapped in a hurry on the way he felt about BK...i have no reason not to buy it, and unless kwhit is the seer, which the wolves would have no way of knowing, this is an odd 1:1 trade that i dont thing a wolf lathum would make.

vote lynch kwhit

[RendeR]

the dark one was killed based on a hunch by a dead player...not based on evidence from the jailing process

we do trust our king, but for me, that trust is based much more on an uncontested reveal than it is on anything to do with the jailing process

we semi-trust abe, so are waiting for a 1 in 5 shot to find anything out about him....i will remind you that roulette wheels have no memories, so keeping him in there waiting for a positive scan is like putting your money on a different number because the one you wanted hit two spins ago.

we have not lost two villagers per day, but we are still on day one in terms of finding a wolf because of it.



i guess you havent noticed that the people that are dying at night are also very likely people that were the targets of seer scans

hoops is always an early scan. period.
danny is, as far as I am concerned, a fantastic player, and when I was a wolf last game, I wanted to take him out on the third day.
DT is a vet that is always a great rolled villager.

all of those guys are people i would want to make sure were on my side if i was the seer..do you honestly think it is coincidence that they are the 3 night kills...the wolves probably have the exact same opinons as the seer.

not sure who is gonna get my vote at this point...either Kwhit or RendeR


Err, why me? other than the fact that I support the plan that the numbers say works in our favor instead of the one that kills multiple people in a day/night? That seems like an awfully sketchy reason to lynch someone path.

[saldana]

Err, why me? other than the fact that I support the plan that the numbers say works in our favor instead of the one that kills multiple people in a day/night? That seems like an awfully sketchy reason to lynch someone path.

part of it is the fact that you are refusing the other side of logic...

part of it is gut...you dont seem nearly the instigator you normally are...you have never been one to sit back and relax in these games..you typically are on the attack all the time, and this game, you seem content to watch the grass grow.

that may be a factor of not having played with you in a while, but it could also be someone trying to blend into the background so as to not get lynched because they know that if they only get jailed, they can get busted out.

[KWhit]

All of you guys who are saying "Yeah, I figured Lathum was the seer" are going to feel pretty stupid when I'm revealed as a villager.

Just sayin'.

[Passacaglia]

All of you guys who are saying "Yeah, I figured Lathum was the seer" are going to feel pretty stupid when I'm revealed as a villager.

Just sayin'.

I won't -- I completely allowed for him setting himself up for a fake seer reveal. And I certainly won't feel stupid if the real seer doesn't counter -- what would you do in the situation everyone else is in?

[RendeR]

Well as for the instigator role, I quit playing for awhile because I was getting too wound up about it. I'm playing very irregularly now so I don't become that person in teh games again. I'm trying very hard NOT to be that instigator. I got too much negative feedback about it and I want everyone to have fun.

Secondly I do not deny the logic of the other side of the argument, I simply put them side by side:

Lynching == 2 possible dead every night
Jailing == 1 possibly dead every night

alive >> dead

thats my reasoning. killing people left and right is the single BEST play for the wolves. No matter the amount of info we get we cannot (IMO) do the obviously worst possible thing by playing by THEIR rules.

If you can't see that I can't help you. Lynching is NOT the best solution, its not a terrible one, but its not the BEST one.

Now as for our situation today, I'm torn. Jailing might work too, but how soon? Lynching tells us more IN THIS CASE. but not as a generic daily routine.

[KWhit]

part of it is the fact that you are refusing the other side of logic...

And you guys are refusing the other side of the logic.

Of course, you're about to find out that the key proponent of the lynch-at-all-costs side is evil.

Which has been precisely my point. The wolves want us to be lynching people. I hope more of you pay attention to that when I'm revealed to be good.

[KWhit]

I won't -- I completely allowed for him setting himself up for a fake seer reveal. And I certainly won't feel stupid if the real seer doesn't counter -- what would you do in the situation everyone else is in?

I would Duke the vote to Lathum, actually.

[saldana]

Secondly I do not deny the logic of the other side of the argument, I simply put them side by side:

Lynching == 2 possible dead every night
Jailing == 1 possibly dead every night

alive >> dead



except that by your rationale, the ONLY people that are going to die are villagers...we arent even giving ourselves a chance to blindly stumble into lynching one of them or the information we need to root them out from trying to kill us during the day!

[Passacaglia]

I would Duke the vote to Lathum, actually.

I said everyone else, not me!!

And seriously -- if you were in my place, Lathum reveals as seer uncontested, and the guy he points out just says that he is actually good, you would duke to Lathum?

[KWhit]

except that by your rationale, the ONLY people that are going to die are villagers...we arent even giving ourselves a chance to blindly stumble into lynching one of them or the information we need to root them out from trying to kill us during the day!

But they are effectively removed from the game by being jailed and given a couple of days will be revealed as wolves. And then they will be executed by the king.

[RendeR]

except that by your rationale, the ONLY people that are going to die are villagers...we arent even giving ourselves a chance to blindly stumble into lynching one of them or the information we need to root them out from trying to kill us during the day!



You're not paying attention to the rules then.

We have a 20% chance EVERY NIGHT to find out exactly who is in jail, wether there is one person jailed or 10 of us in there, we could hit on none, we could hit on all 10.

That is STILL better than blindly shooting at villagers until we find a furball.

[KWhit]

I said everyone else, not me!!

And seriously -- if you were in my place, Lathum reveals as seer uncontested, and the guy he points out just says that he is actually good, you would duke to Lathum?

Yeah, 'cause I know Lathum's lying.

:)

(I get what you're saying).

[RendeR]

Its currently day 4, we've had 3 full days of activity, we've already bagged the top wolf. But you're acting like we've done nothing at all. Perhaps that wasn't because of the jailing mechanic, so what? why should we ignore the higher percentage play?

You say lynching makes more sense, prove it please. show me the numbers that prove killing more villagers in search of wolves is smarter than keeping them alive and searching for wolves.

[lerriuqs]

And seriously -- if you were in my place, Lathum reveals as seer uncontested, and the guy he points out just says that he is actually good, you would duke to Lathum?

The one concern I have on this - what if an unknown mechanic trigger for the cultist isn't "being lynched" but is "getting someone lynched"? If that's the case, we'll already be too late tomorrow. Not sure if I'd change - just throwing it out there as potential concern...

[Passacaglia]

I think it depends on the size of the game, honestly. Lets assume for every 5 players, one is a wolf.

In a 5-player game, if you jail and let the wolves make the only kills, you've got 3 days to get everything sorted out. That just won't happen.

But in a 10-player game, you get 6 days, in a 15-player game, you get 9 days, and in a 20-player game, you get 12 days.

[RendeR]

OFF TOPIC



Fox News is pathetic. They're spinning the obama healthcare stance into some sort of orwellian command from on high.

I really hate right wing bullshit.


End rant.

Oh wait,

mCCain is a fucking idiot as well, based on his current comments on the same show.

[Autumn]

The one concern I have on this - what if an unknown mechanic trigger for the cultist isn't "being lynched" but is "getting someone lynched"? If that's the case, we'll already be too late tomorrow. Not sure if I'd change - just throwing it out there as potential concern...

I wonder about something like that myself, but I think it would be overthinking things to base our actions on it. It's good that Chief reminded us of all the quirks of the Cultist though.

[The Jackal]

Well it looks like no one is contesting Lathum's reveal (except KWhit):

VOTE KWHIT LYNCH

I'll admit I didn't have Lathum as the seer, but his scan targets and resulting actions in the thread make enough sense.

[Schmidty]

OFF TOPIC



Fox News is pathetic. They're spinning the obama healthcare stance into some sort of orwellian command from on high.

I really hate right wing bullshit.


End rant.

Oh wait,

mCCain is a fucking idiot as well, based on his current comments on the same show.

Please keep religion and politics out of WW.

Thanks.

[RendeR]

Please keep religion and politics out of WW.

Thanks.


Sorry Schmidty =) it was on the television while I was reading =)

[KWhit]

This sucks.

Vote Lynch Lathum

You lynch-first guys have won me over. At least for this vote.

[Schmidty]

Sorry Schmidty =) it was on the television while I was reading =)

WELL I WAS READING THE BIBLE, AND I DIDN'T POST THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT, DID I?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Schmidty]

;)

[Telle]

Well I'm finally caught up. This vote seems simple enough.

VOTE KWHIT LYNCH

[Telle]

Votes as of post #1383:

10 - KWhit lynch - Lathum (1258), Autumn (1323), Lerriuqs (1326), SnDvls (1328), path (1338), Chief Rum (1342), USFLTechmo (1350), saldana (1359), The Jackal (1377), Telle (1383)
1 - lerriuqs lynch - Passacaglia (1274)
1 - Lathum lynch - KWhit (1380)

Yet to vote: Barkeep49, MartinD, RendeR

[Passacaglia]

so help me god if MartinD is the seer

[Passacaglia]

(sorry about getting religious schmidty)

[Passacaglia]

btw my vote is on kwhit

[Telle]

btw my vote is on kwhit

Do you know what post #? I obviously missed it.

[Telle]

Do you know what post #? I obviously missed it.

Nevermind, I found it. Post 1321.

[dubb93]

I made a minor change to Post 1252 (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=2047137&postcount=1252)

[Barkeep49]

IMO, logic dictates that wolves are more likely to be in the "lynch" camp actually, especially with the Dark One dead, since they can't control the deaths of villagers in prison and are left concerned that the King might free everyone in the joint at any time. A wolf will want a lynch because that way, they know those villagers are dead and out of the game for sure.

So, IMO, some of the best wolf candidates are actually those supporting the lynch, rather than jail. This more goes for those who have supported lynching from the start. I more undertsand people leaning toward lynching today, as it is true that the jail mechanism devalues the voting records, which is entirely frustrating.

Your math was flawed from the start. So I'm proud to have been in the lynch category from the start.

[Barkeep49]

Just a strategy question... how many days should a seer stay quiet if they don't find a wolf? Because you do have to worry that eventually the wolves will get lucky with a night kill and you lose the knowledge of a CoT that the seer has built.

I would hope that a seer would find other ways of indicating scans that would be obvious upon death.

[DaddyTorgo]

I made a minor change to Post 1252 (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=2047137&postcount=1252)

hey dubb - how come i didn't get my story in before i died? wouldn't my deadline have to be early in the evening? :)

[Passacaglia]

hey dubb - how come i didn't get my story in before i died? wouldn't my deadline have to be early in the evening? :)

Word. Diffama's final article really should have been published posthumously!

[dubb93]

hey dubb - how come i didn't get my story in before i died? wouldn't my deadline have to be early in the evening? :)

:D. Order of actions. Your death came before the newspaper was published.

If your death came early enough to make the newspaper(meaning you died way before the stories were to be in to the editor) do you really think you would have had your story done yet?

[DaddyTorgo]

:D. Order of actions. Your death came before the newspaper was published.

If your death came early enough to make the newspaper(meaning you died way before the stories were to be in to the editor) do you really think you would have had your story done yet?

yep! cuz i don't procrastinate! :D

[Barkeep49]

OK, I like lerriuqs plan, will be gone soon so I need to get it out there now.

I'm Crystal Oculo, I scanned BK N1 which is why my turnaround on him about being king.

N2 I scanned Pass because of his escape.

Last night I scanned KWhit based on his insistence about jail and he came up as having a dark auroa. Thats why I came out the way I did today


we need to start buillding a CoT

Darn it. Catching up now obviously and I had you pegged as the seer (see my comment yesterday about being scanned). Now I don't get as much credit for that as I thought we'd be able to lynch KWhit without a reveal.

Vote KWhit Lynch

[Chief Rum]

Your math was flawed from the start. So I'm proud to have been in the lynch category from the start.

You are correct that it was flawed, in that I was doing the math from the "unknown results" perspective, even though we knew the first result.

That said, my entire point was to show the increasing levels of success which would result with continuing to use the strategy, which the math, flawed though it was, made perfectly clear.

Not that that matters to yuo once you convince yourself you're right of course.

[Passacaglia]

Darn it. Catching up now obviously and I had you pegged as the seer (see my comment yesterday about being scanned). Now I don't get as much credit for that as I thought we'd be able to lynch KWhit without a reveal.

Vote KWhit Lynch

I guess you've got to pick your spots, though -- I was also hoping to lynch Autumn without Lathum revealing, so it can go both ways.

[Autumn]

We need to start our own independent press. This state run operation can't get the news out that we want.

[Barkeep49]

All of you guys who are saying "Yeah, I figured Lathum was the seer" are going to feel pretty stupid when I'm revealed as a villager.

Just sayin'.

I often feel stupid in this game. It helps keep my humble in real life.

[Autumn]

I guess you've got to pick your spots, though -- I was also hoping to lynch Autumn without Lathum revealing, so it can go both ways.

That would have been an unfortunate choice. What makes you think I need to be lynched.

[lerriuqs]

only issue I have with this is what if the king is killed before freeing the prisoners? Then the BG and all that stuff is thrown off as we have to elect a new king first.

The thing is, as long as the BG is alive, he can just switch between Lathum and the king. So Lathum is protected tonight, jailed tomorrow and the King protected who then releases Lathum. So as long as the bodyguard is alive, we can keep Lathum around for at least two more scans.

[Barkeep49]

Please keep religion and politics out of WW.

Thanks.

+1.

~Barkeep49, Your Friendly Werewolf Moderator

[RendeR]

:popcorn:

[SnDvls]

I made a minor change to Post 1252 (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=2047137&postcount=1252)

DON'T EDIT POSTS!!!

ha ha

really what changed? Adding DT's name is all?

[Passacaglia]

That would have been an unfortunate choice. What makes you think I need to be lynched.

I thought I made that clear in my last post -- my hunch was that Lathum was the seer, and that he voted for you D3 because he scanned you. BK said he was hoping to get KWhit lynched without a reveal, for the same reason that I was hoping to get you lynched D3 -- only in your case, he hadn't actually scanned you.

[Passacaglia]

The thing is, as long as the BG is alive, he can just switch between Lathum and the king. So Lathum is protected tonight, jailed tomorrow and the King protected who then releases Lathum. So as long as the bodyguard is alive, we can keep Lathum around for at least two more scans.

Wouldn't they just kill me tonight then, while the BG is protecting Lathum?

[Autumn]

I thought I made that clear in my last post -- my hunch was that Lathum was the seer, and that he voted for you D3 because he scanned you. BK said he was hoping to get KWhit lynched without a reveal, for the same reason that I was hoping to get you lynched D3 -- only in your case, he hadn't actually scanned you.

Oh I see, I didn't get that. Makes sense then. You guys are all better at this than me, I definitely didn't think Lathum was the seer.

[SnDvls]

dubb - which comes first

wolf kill or king's night action?

[dubb93]

dubb - which comes first

wolf kill or king's night action?

I don't feel comfortable revealing that.

really what changed? Adding DT's name is all?

I added DT's starting PM to the bottom. Forgot to add that the first go round.

[Passacaglia]

Oh I see, I didn't get that. Makes sense then. You guys are all better at this than me, I definitely didn't think Lathum was the seer.

Eh, if Lathum doesn't end up being the seer, then we're all worse at this than you!

[KWhit]

Oh I see, I didn't get that. Makes sense then. You guys are all better at this than me, I definitely didn't think Lathum was the seer.

I'll let you in on a little secret.

You're right and they're wrong.

[Autumn]

Hey, good point.

[KWhit]

Eh, if Lathum doesn't end up being the seer, then we're all worse at this than you!

Hey you beat me to it.

[Autumn]

That was for Pass, not KWhit lol

[Autumn]

For the record I think I believe him now, but I just didn't have Lathum pegged before he revealed. I thought I actually had someone else pegged.

[KWhit]

That was for Pass, not KWhit lol

Seriously, I am not a wolf.

I have been strongly pushing for what I am sure is the best course of action for the village, and for that I am a target of the wolves.

I will state it again. The wolves want you to lynch. When Lathum is revealed for what he is, remember that. I strongly suggest you do two things once I turn up as a villager tonight.

1) Lynch Lathum, not matter what BS story he comes up with. He is likely the cultist, but string him up. No ifs, ands or buts.

2) Jail the next most likely candidate. Unless you're pretty strongly sure of someone's guilt, jail is the best option.

[KWhit]

For the record I think I believe him now, but I just didn't have Lathum pegged before he revealed. I thought I actually had someone else pegged.

Ah, well, you're just as wrong as the rest of them then.

[KWhit]

Pass, did you get a read on Abe's guilt or innocence? Did I miss that in the thread?

[KWhit]

Oh, and Pass:

Duke to Lathum.

pls k thx.

[KWhit]

Hello?

Is this mic on?

[Tyrith]

Hello?

Is this mic on?

No one here but us corpses.

[KWhit]

And corpses to be.

Bah!

[Autumn]

I don't think there's much to say at this point, KWhit. The simplest and I think wisest way to figure out who's telling the truth is to lynch you.

You can suppose "the real seer" is holding out, not wanting to reveal themselves to counterreveal, but if so then lynching you to find out Lathum's bad is a fine compromise.

[Chief Rum]

So, KWhit, never heard you say (or can't recall it). Do you propose that you are a vanilla villager?

[KWhit]

So, KWhit, never heard you say (or can't recall it). Do you propose that you are a vanilla villager?

Yes. Vanilla as they come.

[KWhit]

What I can't really figure is why Lathum came out the way he did.

I suppose he must be the cultist and is willing to give himself up to try to out the real seer, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Oh, and he'd get rid of a terrific player in myself of course, who has been promoting a valuable strategy for the village. There is that, too of course.

:)

[KWhit]

I guess I should be flattered that Lathum decided that getting me out of the game was worth a fake reveal that will end up in his death tomorrow.

Thanks, Lathum.

[KWhit]

Of course, if the real seer wanted to reveal, it wouldn't hurt my feelings.

I'm not very excited about being lynched tonight....

[RendeR]

ASking the seer to reveal to save a vanilla villager is...shall we say, not going to help you =)

[KWhit]

ASking the seer to reveal to save a vanilla villager is...shall we say, not going to help you =)

Bah.

[Chief Rum]

So, Mr. Iamnotawolf, if Lathum were to be lying, who would you peg as wolves in this game? And who do you trust as villagers here?

I think Lathum's right. He has been trigging me as the seer since the BK thing on Day One.

But it's boring to sit around and wait for a given lynch. So what you gotta say, KWhit?

[MartinD]

so help me god if MartinD is the seer

Yes, I'm the seer - was just trying to keep a low profile to give me the opportunity to get a couple more scans in, even though I hit a wolf on Day 1...














Oh, wait - that was last game... ;) :lol:

While I'm not a vanilla villager, I have a minor role this time round - on the side of the village, but definitely not the seer.

[MartinD]

If no-one has tried to counter Lathum's claim of seership after this much time, it's pretty unlikely to happen now (in my opinion) - seems to me that the only sensible option is to go with Lathum's information.

VOTE KWHIT LYNCH

[Chief Rum]

Gotta get work done, so I am probably out for a few hours. Might check in again briefly before heading home, but there doesn't seem to be much going on here.

So, Lathum, who are your next targets? Any rough ideas who you're looking at, or who you trust?

[saldana]

can we vote nightfall?

[saldana]

You're not paying attention to the rules then.

We have a 20% chance EVERY NIGHT to find out exactly who is in jail, wether there is one person jailed or 10 of us in there, we could hit on none, we could hit on all 10.

That is STILL better than blindly shooting at villagers until we find a furball.
no it isnt, because putting them in jail still decrements our side in the race to the 1:1 ratio and the king can only let one out per night...so right now, you are supporting the idea of taking villagers out of the game with the 20% chance that we will find out if they are good or bad, but at the same time taking our information away from us...

the wolves are getting the same gains towards victory either way and since even if the king gets all 10 at once, he can only let one out, we are gonna lose.

[Lathum]

Going out soon and will be gone past deadline but I would probably scan Autumn next.

[RendeR]

Apparently I haven't voted yet.

VOTE LYNCH KWHIT

seems like the obvious choice in this situation.

[lerriuqs]

Will likely be out again past deadline - will try to check in during the last hour.

[dubb93]

can we vote nightfall?

Absolutely not.

[dubb93]

Lets talk weekend play. I work tomorrow and even though it was not an issue on Tuesday, that does not mean it will not be an issue tomorrow. Do we want to:

A. Have the regular deadlines Friday(10a and 11p). Have night 5 actions due by noon saturday and then have day 6 run from noon saturday to 11p Monday.

B. Have day 5 run from 10a Friday until 11p Saturday. Night 5 actions would be due by 10p Sunday(or even 10a Monday). Day 6 would run from 10p Sunday to 11p Monday.

C. Some other kind of schedule.

[Chief Rum]

BK's schedule last game (taken from Alan's suggestion/past use, I believe) was a pretty good one, I thought.

It's close to #2, but has the Saturday deadline at 12 p.m. noon, and then Day 6 just goes on to regular finish time Monday.

I would prefer an earlier Saturday deadline, speaking just for myself.

[Autumn]

I think either of those would work for me. I'm going to be available very little Saturday and Sunday so stretched out would help me.

[The Jackal]

Anything works for me, I'll be around

[dubb93]

Day 4 Lynch Vote (11p Deadline):

KWhit Lynch - 14 - Lathum (1258), Pass (1321), Autumn (1323), Lerriuqs (1326), SnDvls (1328), Path (1338), CR (1342), USFL (1350), Saldana (1359), Jackal (1377), Telle (1382), Barkeep (1397), MartinD (1435), RendeR (1440)

Lathum Lynch - 1- KWhit (1380),

[saldana]

Absolutely not.

a simple "no" would have sufficed.

[Autumn]

Well, that makes it a big snoozer then. I'll try to get on around deadline to see the action.

[Barkeep49]

a simple "no" would have sufficed.
It would definitely for sure absolutely positively without a doubt not have sufficed.

[KWhit]

SO!

Who's up for switching votes?!?!?!

[RendeR]

I don't see any hands... guess yer just outta luck

[hoopsguy]

Can I vote?

[RendeR]

Can I vote?


No, shaddup.

[RendeR]

;)

[KWhit]

At the very least, promise me that you all will lynch Lathum tomorrow.

Don't let him weasel his way out of it. Seriously.

[SnDvls]

Well, that makes it a big snoozer then. I'll try to get on around deadline to see the action.

think how bad it's been for Abe, he couldn't even post today

[RendeR]

Srisly?

[dubb93]

Deadline.

[dubb93]

Day 4 Final Vote Count:

KWhit Lynch - 14 - Lathum (1258), Pass (1321), Autumn (1323), Lerriuqs (1326), SnDvls (1328), Path (1338), CR (1342), USFL (1350), Saldana (1359), Jackal (1377), Telle (1382), Barkeep (1397), MartinD (1435), RendeR (1440)

Lathum Lynch - 1- KWhit (1380)

[dubb93]

time check.

[dubb93]

Jail!?!?!? The people of Metou decide they don't need no stink'n jail. The day starts and early on stones are cast in the direction of KWhit and by the end of the day every vote is on KWhit. Well, every vote except for KWhit's that is.

The people converge on the home of KWhit and drag him into the street.

King Pass announces that there will be no legal repercussions for the atrocity you are about to commit.

The people of Metou string KWhit up to a tree on the side of a dirt road, a throw back to darker, more barbaric times. Today shows just how far the people of Metou will go to rid their land of The Dark One and his followers.

A search of KWhit's home turns up nothing. Nothing at all. You feel sick to your stomach. You have hung an innocent man here today. May god have mercy on your soul.

KWhit was a vanilla villager.

Day 4 has come to an end. Night 4 has begun. Night actions are due by 10a est Friday. Day 5 will end 11p est Friday. Night 5 actions will be due by 4p est Saturday. Please PM me if this schedule does not work for you. I work on Friday so deadlines may be ran later than the time noted above.

1. Barkeep49
2. lerriuqs
3. USFLTechmo
4. Abe - Jailed Day 3
5. MartinD
6. <s>hoopsguy</s> - Vanilla Villager, Killed Night 1
7. Passacaglia - Elected King Day 3
8. Telle
9. The Jackal
10. <s>Danny</s> - Lord Righteous, Killed Night 2
11. Autumn
12. Lathum
13. SnDvls
14. RendeR
15. Chief Rum
16. saldana
17. <s>DaddyTorgo</s> - Diffama Fabula - Killed Night 3
18. <s>Tyrith</s> - The Dark One, Duked Day 2 by Schmidty
19. path12
20. <s>KWhit</s> - Lynched Day 4, Vanilla Villager
21. <s>Schmidty</s> - Elected King Day 1, Killed Day 2 by Tyrith, Vanilla Villager

[Lathum]

I don't think I'm gonna be elected King

[lerriuqs]

I don't think I'm gonna be elected King

Ya think?

[Lathum]

Sorry KWhit, your anti-jail stance was bad for the village and you had to be stopped.

[Chief Rum]

I don't think I'm gonna be elected King

:banghead:

Very disappointing, this result.

So are you the Cultist or a regular ole wolf?

[RendeR]

Ya THINK?!?!?!

[Lathum]

:banghead:

Very disappointing, this result.

So are you the Cultist or a regular ole wolf?

what do you think?

[Chief Rum]

Sorry KWhit, your anti-jail stance was bad for the village and you had to be stopped.

As far as I know, there are no villager-able night kills, right? Not on the villager side anyway. So this works in your favor.

[Chief Rum]

what do you think?

I already said.

[lerriuqs]

what do you think?

Obviously the cultist - a wolf wouldn't go there...So a useless day and now a useless cultist unless he can trigger the change to wolf.

[Chief Rum]

I think Lathum's the Cultist. Enough that I think it would be a good idea for Pass to release Abe now, because I always thought he was either a villager or the Cultist. Since I am now pretty certain he's not the Cultist, he must be a villager. I have never bought into him being a wolf and doing the moves he (as clap) did.

[Schmidty]

:popcorn:

[Chief Rum]

Obviously the cultist - a wolf wouldn't go there...So a useless day and now a useless cultist unless he can trigger the change to wolf.

At least the BG now doesn't have a quandary on who to protect tonight, as I assume he will be on Pass.

It will be interesting to see if the wolves try to convert Lathum (have been wondering if the Dark One being dead might have changed how Lathum could be converted). I doubt it. He'll probably try to use that night kill option of his tonight.

[Lathum]

You guys probably shouldn't lynch me tomorrow, since I count as a villager

[Chief Rum]

You guys probably shouldn't lynch me tomorrow, since I count as a villager

heh heh you have turned 100% around on jailing then? lol...

[Lathum]

heh heh you have turned 100% around on jailing then? lol...

you have my attention

[Autumn]

Well, I am surprised. I would agree he's probably a cultist as this seems a bad move for a wolf, but may have allowed Lathum to be converted or get his night kill.

But maybe the wolves just wanted to flush out the seer, I don't know. I'm glad no one came forward, though it cost us KWhit.

[Passacaglia]

Sorry, KWhit. I guess this means that if Lathum was trying to get the seer to reveal, he failed in that. I'll leave it to those who like to argue such things to figure out whether or not that was a good or bad thing. It probably depends on who the seer scanned.

[dubb93]

The title of the thread was a typo. If I offended anyone I am sorry.

[Lathum]

what was the title?

[The Jackal]

bah sorry kwhit

[Autumn]

Well, I'm done for the night. Hopefully we can still work this in our favor tomorrow.

[saldana]

damnit!

you realize this means we still dont have a single person cleared.

at least we know we can lynch lathum happily.

[claphamsa]

at least we know we can lynch lathum happily.


sounds like a good day to me :)

[Telle]

Well that sucks.

[Autumn]

I had a hard time imagining Lathum as the seer anyway, just didn't match my mental image. Now I can go back to imagining him cackling and rubbing his hands evilly.

[Lathum]

at least we know we can lynch lathum happily.

are you sure that's the path you want to take?

[Passacaglia]

I actually think we should jail him. Make him have to stay in the thread, but not able to talk. :p Plus he's probably the cultist.

[Passacaglia]

And if he's not, I can deal with him.

[Chief Rum]

are you sure that's the path you want to take?

You say something about path? ;)

[Passacaglia]

FREE ABE SARGENT

He actually scanned as good.

[dubb93]

time check

[dubb93]

Deadline

[Chief Rum]

For the record, my current trust reads on the players left in the game:

Strong Trust

Pass
Abe
Autumn

Mild trust

Render, SnDvls

No lean either way

lerriuqs, USFLTecmo, MartinD, Telle, The Jackal

Mild distrust

Barkeep, path12, saldana

Strong distrust

Lathum

Most of the strong tusts/distrusts are from interpretations of in game decisions and mechanics. The three middle categories are pretty much based on nothing but gut on posts and behavior and what not.

[RendeR]

I actually think we should jail him. Make him have to stay in the thread, but not able to talk. :p Plus he's probably the cultist.



This does give us an opportunity to kill 2 birds with 1 lynching. Since Pass could then kill him with his action.

Or am I forgetting something as usual?

[Passacaglia]

This does give us an opportunity to kill 2 birds with 1 lynching. Since Pass could then kill him with his action.

Or am I forgetting something as usual?

Probably -- we'd have to use up a day to jail him, and I'd kill him at night. Where would we get the 2nd bird?

[The Jackal]

if we're gonna use a vote to put him in jail so that pass can kill him.. why don't we just lynch him?

[Passacaglia]

DUBB -- I think the rules are little unclear on this. Is it the case that *only* the Dark One can attack Woebegone Prison?

[Lathum]

This does give us an opportunity to kill 2 birds with 1 lynching. Since Pass could then kill him with his action.

Or am I forgetting something as usual?

you are wrong since you are using a day when you could lynch to actualy kill it really isn't 2 birds with one stone.