Werewolf XCVI: The Dark One and The Order of Righteousness (GAME OVER EVIL WINS)

[path12]

Dola, the only other person I'd consider for a lynch today would be SnDvls.

[The Jackal]

I think finding out about USFL gives us info about lerriuqs

I think you and path are probably right about this, and USFL's switch after Martin's reveal sort of made sense, but also gave me that tingly feeling.

VOTE LYNCH USFL

[The Jackal]

path - why not USFL? just curious, i could be persuaded to switch to lerriuqs, and definitely to SND

[RendeR]

My apologies for showing up and bitching at someone but I'm entirely too cranky right now and I'm dealing with two obnoxiousntoddlers and over excited puppy on top of reading utterly unsubstntiatied shyte from other players.


*grump*

[path12]

I tried to clarify the attitude change to everyone early on in the game but apparently not everyone reads around here. I've grown tired of being the angry bear and I've stepped down my overall play style to help avoid unnecessary blow ups like I've had inthe past.

if you don;t like that so fucking BE IT.

*whispers in RendeR's ear* C'mon......blow up.......you know you want to..... :D

[Abe Sargent]

See my post above - my role is effectively 'brutal villager', in that I can select a player to kill off if I am lynched or night-killed.

As I said above, there's no way I can prove that I'm being honest about this short of getting myself killed, so you need to decide if I'm telling the truth on this one.

I think it is convenient that you role-revealed as a role that would likely hurt the village if you were killed off, as opposed to not helping or hurting us. I'm not saying ou are a wolf, vote you now, just that it seems awfully convenient.

[The Jackal]

path - why not USFL? just curious, i could be persuaded to switch to lerriuqs, and definitely to SND

I see that you said the target should be one of USFL or lerriuqs earlier, but after voting for lerriuqs you say you'd only switch to SND, just curious

[RendeR]

*whispers in RendeR's ear* C'mon......blow up.......you know you want to..... :D



Asshat







:devil:

[The Jackal]

I think it is convenient that you role-revealed as a role that would likely hurt the village if you were killed off, as opposed to not helping or hurting us. I'm not saying ou are a wolf, vote you now, just that it seems awfully convenient.

+1, fwiw

[path12]

path - why not USFL? just curious, i could be persuaded to switch to lerriuqs, and definitely to SND

Two reasons, either of which may be wrong so feel free to correct me:

--I think USFL is a newer player. Given the choice I'd rather lynch the more experienced one.

--squirrel made the switch. (well, OK, that one might not be wrong).

As for SnDvls, he is the vet that I get the worst vibe from.

[The Jackal]

RendeR - 2 (SND 1983, USFL 1992)
USFL - 2 (Martin 2000, Jackal 2002)
lerriuqs - 1 (path 1998)

yet to vote - lerriuqs, Abe, RendeR

[The Jackal]

Two reasons, either of which may be wrong so feel free to correct me:

--I think USFL is a newer player. Given the choice I'd rather lynch the more experienced one.

--squirrel made the switch. (well, OK, that one might not be wrong).

As for SnDvls, he is the vet that I get the worst vibe from.

I might be confusing him with someone else, but didnt USFL come from another site where he had played before? Don't really think I'll be basing a vote on that kind of info, though.

And yes, I agree with you on SND.

[The Jackal]

I'll be back a little later, probably having dinner soon.

[path12]

UNVOTE LYNCH LERRIUQS
VOTE LYNCH USFLTECMO

Six of one, half dozen the other.

[path12]

Abe, would you consider a SnDvls switch?

[Abe Sargent]

Players:


2. lerriuqs
3. USFLTechmo
4. Abe - cleared by seer and King, role known and confirmed by King
5. MartinD - Claims Brutal Villager
9. The Jackal
13. SnDvls
14. RendeR
19. path12 - scanned clear by seer



Let's start working this

Let's assume, right now, MartinD gets a one day pass.

That leaves:

lerriuqs
USFL
The Jackal
RendeR
SnDvls

Now, remove yourself from the equation.

Not a large group to hide a wolf or two. Here wolfy wolfy.


I'm not inclined to vote RendeR right now.

That leaves, for my purposes, SnDvls, Jackal, USFL, and lerriuqs.

I am not willing to give lerriuqs slack simply because he changed his vote last minute onto a villager. However, others are, so without being able to gain momentum there...

I look here: SnDvls, The Jackal, USFLTecmo

Is there a change lerriuqs is a wolf? Sure. Is there a chance MartinD is a wolf? Sure. Is there a chance RendeR is a wolf? Sure. But their play suggest to me that all of the remaining wolves cannot be found in that group of three. At least one is in the SnDvls, Jackal, USFL group I think, and perhaps two.

Therefore, I will not be voting outside that group today.

It seems like SnDvls and Jackal and USFL have each gone under the radar. Can someone give us vote analysis for them over the course of the game?

[MartinD]

I think it is convenient that you role-revealed as a role that would likely hurt the village if you were killed off, as opposed to not helping or hurting us. I'm not saying ou are a wolf, vote you now, just that it seems awfully convenient.

That's a reasonable opinion to have at this point, but I stand by the role I have revealed, and know that I'll be proved right when I either get lynched or night-killed, or we reach the end of the game.

[USFLTecmo]

I'm pretty sure I'm in the running tonight, I just wish I knew against who. I'm leaving within the next hour, and I'd hate to waste my vote.

[SnDvls]

A- I've mentioned you once, today, the rest of the game I haven't even considered you other than to respond to things others have said.

B- Your gut has led you...where? thus far in the game?

C- I'd rather not bring it up but since I'm getting votes I'd like to remind folks that I was at least semi-trusted by CR who tends to read my play entirely too well for my own liking. Beyond that all i can say is that I'm a vanilla villager. its not like I can whip up some fake reveal at this point, all the real roles are dead.

D- you've come out in posts at least twice now stating that you dislike something about how I'm playing or that I've been quieter than normal and not causing problems. I tried to clarify the attitude change to everyone early on in the game but apparently not everyone reads around here. I've grown tired of being the angry bear and I've stepped down my overall play style to help avoid unnecessary blow ups like I've had inthe past.

if you don;t like that so fucking BE IT.


a- you mentioned me yesterday too when I put my name in blue (I'll pull the post if you want)

b- the same place everyone else's gut has led them

c - CR had me in the same boat as you.

d- this is post #2 about you now....again I say prove it.. I don't need to curse to prove my point and a WW game shouldn't get you bent out of shape so just calm down. I didn't say you were being quiet or dislike how you were playing...I said I had a vibe...could it be wrong, yup, could it be right, yup. Show me where I say I don't like how you are playing? Everyone has their own style...hey I'm a quiet player too, always have been always will be...Autumn even called me out on it and I stated it then.

I've not encouraged anyone to vote for you or campainged against you so I'm not sure where you are coming from, but oh well.

[The Jackal]

Quoted from SND:

Final Day 1 Vote Count:

Pass Jail - 10 - Clap (222), USFL (253), MartinD (261), Hoops (300), path12 (344), Tyrith (366), lerriuqs (372), Pass (380), Jackal (383), BK
(395) BK Jail - 8 - Lathum (177), Render (210), SnDvLs (233), DT (235), saldana (278), CR (295), Danny (349), Kwhit (369)
KWhit Jail - 2 - Autumn (254), Telle (320)
KWhit Lynch - 1 - Schmidty (298)

Day 2 Final Vote Count:

Abe/Clap Jail - 5 - USFL (528), Telle (618), DT (624), CR (626), KWhit
(666) BK Jail - 4 - Lathum (497), MartinD (527), Sndvls (532), lerriuqs (547)
Abe/Clap Lynch - 3 - Saldana (503), The Jackal (560), BK (698)
Pass Jail - 3 - Tyrith (718), Autumn (770), RendeR (783)
USFL Lynch - 2 - Path (557), Schmidty (558)
KWhit Lynch - 1 - Clap (656)
Telle Jail - 1 - Danny (736)

Final Day 3 Vote Count:

Abe Jail - 6 - RendeR (1056), CR (1060), Jackal (1063), lerriuqs (1065), KWhit (1095), DT (1168)
Abe Lynch - 4 - Path (1042), Martin (1045), USFLTecmo (1074), BK (1108)
Autumn Lynch - 4 - SnDvls (1050), Lathum (1077), Saldana (1178), Pass
(1194) DaddyTorgo Jail - 3 - Autumn (1087), Abe (1112), Telle (1126)


Day 4 Final Vote Count:

KWhit Lynch - 14 - Lathum (1258), Pass (1321), Autumn (1323), Lerriuqs (1326), SnDvls (1328), Path (1338), CR (1342), USFL (1350), Saldana (1359), Jackal (1377), Telle (1382), Barkeep (1397), MartinD (1435), RendeR (1440)

Lathum Lynch - 1- KWhit (1380)

Day 5 Final Vote Count:

Lathum Lynch - 11 - Jackal (1510), Autumn (1514), USFL (1526), BK (1546), MartinD (1602), Path (1608), Abe (1614), Saldana (1649), RendeR (1676), Leriuqs (1682), CR (1685),

Lathun Jail - 1 - SnDvls (1565),

Barkeep49 Jail - 1 - Pass (1607)

Did Not Vote: Lathum



Day 6 Final Vote Count:

Saldana Lynch - 11 - USFL (1755), Abe (1756), CR (1757), Lerriuqs (1758), Jackal (1759), Autumn (1761),SnDvls (1762), MartinD (1763), RendeR (1767), BK (1768), Path (1772)

Failed to Vote: Saldana


Day 7 Final Vote Count:

Barkeep Lynch - 6 - SnDvls (1842), MartinD (1866), USFLTecmo (1867), Path12 (1883), Autumn (1900), Lerriuqs (1921)

USFLTecmo Lynch - 4 - RendeR (1874), Abe Sargent (1882), The Jackal (1895), Barkeep (1899)

[The Jackal]

There's something to start with, didn't have time to color in all known good guys or what not, now I'm off to eat.

[Abe Sargent]

Actually, hold up. MartinD may have just given us our answer.

[Abe Sargent]

MATH HURTS MY HEAD:


Assume worst case scenario, two wolves left.


Assume we miss today. Tonight death of me or path.

Tomorrow, odds are 4:2. One cleared player. 40% chance of killing a wolf. Failure to do so means game over, because the night kill ends the game.



However, assume that we kill THREE players today.

That means tomorrow we have 5 players left and one cleared in that lot. Gives us a 50% chance of finding a wolf tomorrow.

Killing MartinD tonight:

If he's lying and a wolf - YAY!

If he's telling the truth - still get another free chance at a wolf without them able to manipulate the vote. One free swipe. If that hits - YAY.

If it misses, we STILL have better odds to hit a wolf the following day than we would have had otherwise because the wolves have to kill a trusted player tonight.


In other words, we have to vote for MartinD today.


Vote MartinD Lynch


MartinD, I hope you understand my math and logic. If you are telling the truth, send in a good order, Good luck!

[Abe Sargent]

This is crazy, but I think it totally works.

[path12]

I look here: SnDvls, The Jackal, USFLTecmo

Is there a change lerriuqs is a wolf? Sure. Is there a chance MartinD is a wolf? Sure. Is there a chance RendeR is a wolf? Sure. But their play suggest to me that all of the remaining wolves cannot be found in that group of three. At least one is in the SnDvls, Jackal, USFL group I think, and perhaps two.

Therefore, I will not be voting outside that group today.

It seems like SnDvls and Jackal and USFL have each gone under the radar. Can someone give us vote analysis for them over the course of the game?

Final Day 1 Vote Count:

Pass Jail - 10 - Clap (222), USFL (253), MartinD (261), Hoops (300), path12 (344), Tyrith (366), lerriuqs (372), Pass (380), Jackal (383), BK (395)
BK Jail - 8 - Lathum (177), Render (210), SnDvLs (233), DT (235), saldana (278), CR (295), Danny (349), Kwhit (369)
KWhit Jail - 2 - Autumn (254), Telle (320)
KWhit Lynch - 1 - Schmidty (298)

Day 2 Final Vote Count:

Abe/Clap Jail - 5 - USFL (528), Telle (618), DT (624), CR (626), KWhit (666)
BK Jail - 4 - Lathum (497), MartinD (527), Sndvls (532), lerriuqs (547)
Abe/Clap Lynch - 3 - Saldana (503), The Jackal (560), BK (698)
Pass Jail - 3 - Tyrith (718), Autumn (770), RendeR (783)
USFL Lynch - 2 - Path (557), Schmidty (558)
KWhit Lynch - 1 - Clap (656)
Telle Jail - 1 - Danny (736)

Final Day 3 Vote Count:

Abe Jail - 6 - RendeR (1056), CR (1060), Jackal (1063), lerriuqs (1065), KWhit (1095), DT (1168)
Abe Lynch - 4 - Path (1042), Martin (1045), USFLTecmo (1074), BK (1108)
Autumn Lynch - 4 - SnDvls (1050), Lathum (1077), Saldana (1178), Pass (1194)
DaddyTorgo Jail - 3 - Autumn (1087), Abe (1112), Telle (1126)


Day 4 Final Vote Count:

KWhit Lynch - 14 - Lathum (1258), Pass (1321), Autumn (1323), Lerriuqs (1326), SnDvls (1328), Path (1338), CR (1342), USFL (1350), Saldana (1359), Jackal (1377), Telle (1382), Barkeep (1397), MartinD (1435), RendeR (1440)

Lathum Lynch - 1- KWhit (1380)

Day 5 Final Vote Count:

Lathum Lynch - 11 - Jackal (1510), Autumn (1514), USFL (1526), BK (1546), MartinD (1602), Path (1608), Abe (1614), Saldana (1649), RendeR (1676), Leriuqs (1682), CR (1685),

Lathun Jail - 1 - SnDvls (1565),

Barkeep49 Jail - 1 - Pass (1607)

Did Not Vote: Lathum



Day 6 Final Vote Count:

Saldana Lynch - 11 - USFL (1755), Abe (1756), CR (1757), Lerriuqs (1758), Jackal (1759), Autumn (1761), SnDvls (1762), MartinD (1763), RendeR (1767), BK (1768), Path (1772)

Failed to Vote: Saldana


Day 7 Final Vote Count:

Barkeep Lynch - 6 - SnDvls (1842), MartinD (1866), USFLTecmo (1867), Path12 (1883), Autumn (1900), Lerriuqs (1921)

USFLTecmo Lynch - 4 - RendeR (1874), Abe Sargent (1882), The Jackal (1895), Barkeep (1899)


.

SnDvls:
Day 1 voted jail Barkeep (villager)
Day 2 voted jail Barkeep (villager)
Day 3 voted lynch Autumn (WK)
Day 4 voted lynch KWhit (along with everyone else)
Day 5 voted jail Lathum (everyone else voted lynch)
Day 6 voted lynch saldana (along with everyone else)
Day 7 voted lynch Barkeep (villager)

Jackal:
Day 1 voted jail Pass (villager)
Day 2 voted lynch Abe/Clap (king)
Day 3 voted jail Abe
Day 4 voted lynch KWhit (everyone)
Day 5 voted lynch Lathum (first vote)
Day 6 voted lynch saldana (everyone)
Day 7 voted lynch USFL (unknown)

USFLTecmo:
Day 1 voted jail Pass (villager)
Day 2 voted jail Abe/Clap (king)
Day 3 voted lynch Abe
Day 4 voted lynch KWhit (everyone)
Day 5 voted lynch Lathum (third vote)
Day 6 voted lynch saldana
Day 7 voted lynch Barkeep (understandable since he was the other candidate)

[path12]

Sorry bout that, I meant to delete the recap after recapping that below.

That jail vote on Lathum is interesting enough for me to:

UNVOTE LYNCH USFLTECMO
VOTE LYNCH SNDVLS

[Abe Sargent]

No path, you gotta go MartinD, as I mention above. I think we gotta gofer.

[USFLTecmo]

Even with being very high on Martin's target list tonight, I have to say the math makes sense.

Unvote Lynch RendeR
Vote Lynch MartinD

[path12]

Abe, I'm kind of assuming that Martin is the cultist at this point and is flagging that to the wolves. Thoughts?

[Abe Sargent]

I'd be willing to try and take out the wolf ally who is a villager but wins with them too. That's like a semi win.

[SnDvls]

unvote render
vote lynch martin d

I agree with your math Abe

[path12]

Y'know, this is probably reading too much into it, but looking back through the voting Martin and SnD have voted pretty close together time-wise more often than not.

OK. It's better than anything I've got, though I'm feeling good about the idea of SunnyD being a bad guy.

UNVOTE LYNCH SNDVLS
VOTE LYNCH MARTIND

And I'd agree with Abe, Martin. If we're wrong and you are a good guy, keep the big picture in mind and nail a wolf.

[The Jackal]

Well, I suppose I see the merit in this. If you are telling the truth, good luck.

UNVOTE LYNCH USFL
VOTE LYNCH MARTIN

[RendeR]

Huh, well paint me green and call me a turnip, that might just work.


VOTE Lynch MARTIN

[The Jackal]

Martin - 6 (Abe 2023, USFL 2028, SND 2031, path 2032, Jackal 2033, RendeR 2034)
USFL - 1 (Martin 2000)

yet to vote - lerriuqs

[The Jackal]

6 votes in 11 posts, sheesh.

[RendeR]

THe math speaks strongly young padewan

[The Jackal]

THe math speaks strongly young padewan

is yoda a turnip? it all makes sense..

[The Jackal]

i'm not sure i remember a game with this many stacked votes

[path12]

I'm out until late west coast time. Good luck to us. God knows we need it.

[RendeR]

is yoda a turnip? it all makes sense..


King illegal forest to pig wild kill in it a is!

[lerriuqs]

Just caught up. I like the math Abe.

VOTE MARTIND lynch

[lerriuqs]

If you honestly thought I wouldn't have taken care of that, you are silly.

Sorry. Didn't have you here to confirm and I didn't want to take the chance it had been overlooked. As stated, we couldn't afford a no lynch yesterday IMO.

[RendeR]

talk about a quiet thread.....creepy.

[SnDvls]

talk about a quiet thread.....creepy.

it's all the run-a-way votes

[Abe Sargent]

time stamp

[Abe Sargent]

Okay, for the record, no duking by me tonight.

[dubb93]

time check

[dubb93]

deadline

[dubb93]

Day 8 Final Vote Count:

MartinD Lynch - 7 - Abe Sargent (2023), USFLTecmo (2028), SnDvls (2031), Path12 (2032), The Jackal (2033), RendeR (2034), Lerriuqs (2042),

USFLTecmo Lynch - 1 - MartinD (2000)

[dubb93]

Another day brings yet another near unanimous decision. Today Metou decides that it is MartinD that must be a follower of The Dark One.

The mob converges on MartinD. He is mounted on a horse and in full armor. MartinD appears to be a mounted archer of some sort. The mob corners MartinD in the courtyard of the castle. He announces, “People of Metou I am not your enemy. I am the captain of the Royal Mounted Archers.”

The mob will not be reasoned with. This will not be an easy fight. Many of mob are injured when MartinD fires a volley of arrows. MartinD fights valiantly but he can't overcome the sheer numbers of the mob and is killed. After the battle you discover USFLTecmo has been hit in the head by an arrow. He is also dead.

With permission from Abe Sargent you are allowed into the quarters of MartinD. You find his allegiance was with the King. You leave the castle and make haste to the home of USFLTecmo. There you do a search of his home. This also search turns up nothing. USFLTecmo was a simple citizen of Metou. What a terrible day. MartinD murdered by the mob and USFLTecmo killed in self defense. Both were on the side of good.

MartinD was Captain of the Royal Mounted Archers.

Captain of the Royal Mounted Archers -

If you are killed in the game by any manner you may choose any other player in the game to kill. You will still die, but you will get to bring another player to the grave with you. You must submit a player name to me in PM such as:

If I am the night kill I would like to kill Dubb93 tonight.

or

If I am the lynch vote I would like to kill Dubb93.

Please submit conditional orders as a night action as well as a conditional order each day there is a lynch vote.

USFLTecmo was a Vanilla Villager.

Day 8 has ended. Night 8 has began. Night actions due by 10a EST Thursday. I work on Thursday so actions may be ran late.

1. <s>Barkeep49</s> - Lynched Day 7, Vanilla Villager
2. lerriuqs
3. <s>USFLTechmo</s> - Killed Day 8 by MartinD, Vanilla Villager
4. Abe - Elected King Day 6
5. <s>MartinD</s> - Lynched Day 8, Captain of the Royal Mounted Archers
6. <s>hoopsguy</s> - Vanilla Villager, Killed Night 1
7. <s>Passacaglia</s> - Elected King Day 3, Killed Night 5, Arbitro
8. <s>Telle</s> - Vanilla Villager, Killed Night 4
9. The Jackal
10. <s>Danny</s> - Lord Righteous, Killed Night 2
11. <s>Autumn</s> - Killed Night 7, The White Knight
12. <s>Lathum</s> - Lynched Day 5, Follower of The Dark One
13. SnDvls
14. RendeR
15. <s>Chief Rum</s> - Killed Night 6, Crystal Oculo
16. <s>saldana</s> - Lynched Day 6, Vanilla Villager
17. <s>DaddyTorgo</s> - Diffama Fabula - Killed Night 3
18. <s>Tyrith</s> - The Dark One, Duked Day 2 by Schmidty
19. path12
20. <s>KWhit</s> - Lynched Day 4, Vanilla Villager
21. <s>Schmidty</s> - Elected King Day 1, Killed Day 2 by Tyrith, Vanilla Villager

[Abe Sargent]

Well, that sucks, but it gives us good odds tommorrow and gives us info on lerriuqs

[Abe Sargent]

My guess, right now, as to where the other two are hiding:

1. The Jackal
2. SnDvls
3. RendeR
4. lerriuqs


In that order, that's my guess

[Abe Sargent]

Okay, unfortuantely I have a very ultra busy work day tomorrow, so I cannot be around in the morning to say this, so I am saying it now.

I fully expect to be night killed. Killing me off makes the most sense for the wolves.

Tomorrow, elect path to the throne. Then path, do not let the wolves play vote tricks.

Just Duke and Cover.

Duke and Cover.

[RendeR]

Thats a very interesting mechanic, I don't think I've ever considered giving a brutal type ability to the village. nice touch.

Unfortunately for THIS village, he chose....pooooorly.

Ok so, I have Path, Abe and myself on my trust list. I there can only be 2 of them left or the game would be over right now. given that its 2 out of three of squirrel, jackal and SnDvls.

SnDvls and I haven't seen eye to eye recenly but that doesn't mean he's good or bad.

I'll be aiming at one of those three tomorrow. As Abe says, he's a definite night kill targetr because he's the king, but then again, what difference does it make really as we would just elect path tomorrow and he would have the same powers. Path or abe are both in danger tonight because they're the only cleared people.

we're only gonna get one more chance at this guys. If we blow tomorrow's lynch we're done =(

[The Jackal]

Well shite. I don't argue with the call made by Martin, as I was suspicious of USFL, but I was really hoping he'd change his mind to SND. I realize I'm going to be in the running tomorrow, and there's no proof I can give you that I'm just a vanilla villager. I can suggest my voting record, which I think I've done a pretty good job with (as opposed to Danny's game.. ugh).

But I really don't have a clue who the wolves are. Gut feeling + probability shift tells me SND has to be one. I really hope there's someone left that can influence the game in our favor (whether it's a well-played duke by the king or something that hasn't been revealed), because I don't have anything more to offer. This has been one of the more frustrating games I've been in because normally I have a good sense of who might be a wolf (see PF in Danny's game, i friggin told you guys), but in this game with all the runaway votes I've gotten very few vibes and it's scary.

I'll see you folks on the morrow, I assume, unless the wolves go crazy on us.

[MartinD]

My decision on who to 'take with me' shouldn't have come as a surprise, given what I posted yesterday (apologies to USFLTecmo, but I believe that there was sufficient reason for suspicion).

Good luck to the village for the rest of the game :)

[path12]

My guess, right now, as to where the other two are hiding:

1. The Jackal
2. SnDvls
3. RendeR
4. lerriuqs


In that order, that's my guess

I might shift that slightly but we see it similarly.

[path12]

My decision on who to 'take with me' shouldn't have come as a surprise, given what I posted yesterday (apologies to USFLTecmo, but I believe that there was sufficient reason for suspicion).

Good luck to the village for the rest of the game :)

No worries, Martin. Your guess was as good as ours. :) Sorry for killing you.

[RendeR]

I might shift that slightly but we see it similarly.


So what do you think Path? You and Abe are the cleared people, I'm gonna follow like a beaten dog because the only way we win is to vote in a block on this stuff tonight.

[RendeR]

I hate waiting =)

[dubb93]

Busy morning. Processing now.

[dubb93]

As night ends and the sun begins to pierce the night all is not well in Metou. The war with The Dark One is not going well and is taking a heavy toll on the citizens of Metou. The casualty list is high and as you glance down at the morning paper you once again see it has gotten even higher:

King Slain

Once again the King has been killed. There is no stopping the followers of The Dark One it appears. You sink into a chair and drift off into deep thought. Is there anyway he can be stopped? One thing is for sure, you have no more room for error.

Abe Sargent was the fired Woebegone Prison Guard and your elected King.

Woebegone Prison Guard -

You know the ins and out of the prison. You work the day shift. You may choose one player each day that is in jail and you will have unlimited PM rights with that player during the day cycle.

You may also as a one time action during the day kill a player or free a player from jail.

Please note that talking to prisoners is not allowed at Woebegone Prison and as such if it is made public that you have had any contact with prisoners you will be fired and become a vanilla villager.

You may reveal that you have had contact via PM but if it becomes public knowledge that you have talked to a prisoner in private you will be fired.

You will also be fired if you free a player from jail or kill a prisoner.

Night 8 has ended. Day 9 has began. King election ends 7p EST. Day 9 ends 11p EST.

1. <s>Barkeep49</s> - Lynched Day 7, Vanilla Villager
2. lerriuqs
3. <s>USFLTechmo</s> - Killed by MartinD Day 8, Vanilla Villager
4. <s>Abe</s> - Elected King Day 6, Killed Night 8, Woebegone Prison Guard, Fired
5. <s>MartinD</s> - Lynched Day 8, Captain of the Royal Mounted Archers
6. <s>hoopsguy</s> - Vanilla Villager, Killed Night 1
7. <s>Passacaglia</s> - Elected King Day 3, Killed Night 5, Arbitro
8. <s>Telle</s> - Vanilla Villager, Killed Night 4
9. The Jackal
10. <s>Danny</s> - Lord Righteous, Killed Night 2
11. <s>Autumn</s> - Killed Night 7, The White Knight
12. <s>Lathum</s> - Lynched Day 5, Follower of The Dark One
13. SnDvls
14. RendeR
15. <s>Chief Rum</s> - Killed Night 6, Crystal Oculo
16. <s>saldana</s> - Lynched Day 6, Vanilla Villager
17. <s>DaddyTorgo</s> - Diffama Fabula - Killed Night 3
18. <s>Tyrith</s> - The Dark One, Duked Day 2 by Schmidty
19. path12
20. <s>KWhit</s> - Lynched Day 4, Vanilla Villager
21. <s>Schmidty</s> - Elected King Day 1, Killed Day 2 by Tyrith, Vanilla Villager

[RendeR]

Well that wasn't unexpected.

[path12]

Our wolves must be among the following:

BK (nope), saldana (nope), lerriuqs, USFLTecmo (nope), MartinD (nope), The Jackal, Render and SnDvls


Gotta think the odds are on our side, no?

[RendeR]

One would think so, but we've shot ourselves in the ass so often thus far I'm not counting on anything anymore.

My list:

Path (cleared)

Myself (duh)

SnDvls
Jackal
Squirrel


whatya think Path?

[lerriuqs]

Well that wasn't unexpected.

With that I think the game is over...If there is a cultist...There's no way for the village to win this game...

But
VOTE PATH KING

VOTE SNDVLS LYNCH

[RendeR]

With that I think the game is over...If there is a cultist...There's no way for the village to win this game...

But
VOTE PATH KING

VOTE SNDVLS LYNCH


If that were teh case the game would be over already. I think the cultist either never existed or they got him really early on and there were less starting wolves than we thought.


I'm with you on the king obviously thought:

VOTE PATH KING

[path12]

One would think so, but we've shot ourselves in the ass so often thus far I'm not counting on anything anymore.

My list:

Path (cleared)

Myself (duh)

SnDvls
Jackal
Squirrel


whatya think Path?

I'm going to tread carefully here, RendeR. I would humbly accept the (likely short-lived) role of King if so elected.

But I'm going back through statements and such and am quite interested to see how players present themselves today before getting too definitive in my views.

I do think that everyone still in the game would list path, them, then the rest. :)

Can I vote for myself as King? I didn't see where it was prohibited, but it just seems, well, odd..

[RendeR]

What is your deciding point on SnDvls? I was pondering jackal or SnDvls or even you, though I've gotten decent vibes from you all game long.

I'm interested in voting with Path because we know he's good so thats the best plan right now, but I'm certainly willing to discuss SnDvls too. You three are all right on par for me right now.

[RendeR]

I'm going to tread carefully here, RendeR. I would humbly accept the (likely short-lived) role of King if so elected.

But I'm going back through statements and such and am quite interested to see how players present themselves today before getting too definitive in my views.

I do think that everyone still in the game would list path, them, then the rest. :)

Can I vote for myself as King? I didn't see where it was prohibited, but it just seems, well, odd..


yes you can vote for yourself as king and yes I know everyone is going to state YOU then THEM then the rest =) we're 5 people treading a damn fine wire right now.

I know we need to vote in a group so you have my support.

[lerriuqs]

If that were teh case the game would be over already. I think the cultist either never existed or they got him really early on and there were less starting wolves than we thought.


I'm with you on the king obviously thought:

VOTE PATH KING

The game wouldn't be over if he wasn't converted - he counts on the village side of the ratio. And his name isn't up there, so he's either still playing or never existed...

[RendeR]

Oh hell.



I just realized something and it throws my entire thinking into the shitter.

more in a bit, gotta go re-read some posts...

[RendeR]

The game wouldn't be over if he wasn't converted - he counts on the village side of the ratio. And his name isn't up there, so he's either still playing or never existed...

True, and another point just came to mind...back with more soon.

[path12]

I do think the cultist is still with us, which makes the vote that much more interesting to me.

VOTE PATH12 KING

Yeah, still seems odd.

[DaddyTorgo]

*sigh*

[dubb93]

Nightfall

[RendeR]

MUAUAWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!

[dubb93]

I'm writing up the end game right now.

[dubb93]

The long day wears into night. It has been a long time coming and finally Metou has fallen into complete chaos. In its time of need Metou will look for one to pull them out of the chaos. That one will undoubtedly be RendeR, The Dark One.

The Dark One and his followers have won. Surviving wolves are RendeR and The Jackal.

(I nightfalled this because RendeR cast a vote control spell on a villager. This would have given them 3 votes to vote with and would have ended the game tonight. It was game over at that point and I decided not to wait for 11p tonight to end this.)

[RendeR]

Just call me:





DARTH RENDER



MUHAHWAWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dubb93]

1. Barkeep49 - Vanilla Villager
2. lerriuqs - Vanilla Villager
3. USFLTechmo - Vanilla Villager
4. Abe - Woebegone Prison Guard
5. MartinD - Captain of the Royal Mounted Archers
6. hoopsguy - Vanilla Villager
7. Passacaglia - Arbitro
8. Telle - Vanilla Villager
9. The Jackal - Follower of The Dark One
10. Danny - Lord Righteous
11. Autumn - The White Knight
12. Lathum - Follower of The Dark One
13. SnDvls - Vanilla Villager
14. RendeR - Drago Prodo/The Dark One
15. Chief Rum - Crystal Oculo
16. saldana - Vanilla Villager
17. DaddyTorgo - Diffama Fabula
18. Tyrith - The Dark One
19. path12 - Vanilla Villager
20. KWhit - Vanilla Villager
21. Schmidty - Vanilla Villager

[hoopsguy]

I think Dubb is now in line to assume Saldana's throne as the moderator who sees the most consecutive villager deaths in his game(s). That one got ugly fast for the villagers after a promising start.

[lerriuqs]

Even on the last day I picked the wrong one...Dammit...

So did you start as the cultist RendeR?

[lerriuqs]

The long day wears into night. It has been a long time coming and finally Metou has fallen into complete chaos. In its time of need Metou will look for one to pull them out of the chaos. That one will undoubtedly be RendeR, The Dark One.

The Dark One and his followers have won. Surviving wolves are RendeR and The Jackal.

(I nightfalled this because RendeR cast a vote control spell on a villager. This would have given them 3 votes to vote with and would have ended the game tonight. It was game over at that point and I decided not to wait for 11p tonight to end this.)

Couldn't path still duke or did it affect the king vote as well?

[dubb93]

RendeR

You are Drago Prodo and as such you are playing my favorite role in the game.

You win with the side of evil.

Each night you may scan a player to determine if they have a light or dark aura.

Instead of doing a scan you may instead once during the game perform an action to poison a player. There is a 50/50 chance that you will be successful. If you succeed the player will be poisoned and die during the following night cycle. Please note that if you run into a bodyguard you will be killed and if you run into The Dark One you will be converted. You will be able to kill any player in the game other than The Dark One that is not guarded.

You have two victory conditions.

Minor Victory - You win a minor victory if the side of evil wins. You can be alive or dead, converted or unconverted.

Major Victory - You win a major victory if at the end of the game you are The Dark One and your side wins.

Please keep in mind that you are the only player in the game other than the starting player with the role "The Dark One" that is able to obtain that role. In order to obtain it you must be alive when the player with the role "The Dark One" dies. If this happens you will inherit the role and learn the identity of all the wolves.

If you inherit the role "The Dark One" you will play the first day as a vanilla wolf, on day two you will be cunning, on day three you will be brutal and on day four you will have the full powers of The Dark One.

No other player in the game including any of the wolves knows about this mechanic.

The only two ways you can be converted are if you are night killed by The Dark One or The Dark One dies. If any other wolves comes to kill you, you will be killed.

Tyrith/RendeR

May submit a story to the newspaper each night. Will be submitted as Diffama Fabula. May also delegate a night kill each night. The Dark One is cunning as well as being brutal. May choose to forgo a night kill and raid the Woebegone Prison. If Woebegone Prison is not guarded by The Order of Righteousness all prisoners inside will be freed. May himself kill a prisoner in Woebegone Prison as a night kill.

May as day or night actions cast the following spells(If any of these spells are cast with the exception of darkfall, The Dark One is unable to perform any actions the following cycle. For instance if you use Silencio on day 1, The Dark One is unable to act on night 1 and must instead send someone else to do the kill. If one of these powers are used during the night phase The Dark One is unable to act during the day phase and cast another spell):

Silencio: Silence a player for an entire phase. This may be done at any time of the phase and the player silenced will not longer be able to type in thread during the remainder of that phase.

Possessio: Force a player to change his vote to whoever The Dark One feels is necessary. This spell can be cast on any player and they will be forced to change their vote. The spell has a duration of two hours, after two hours the effects wear off and the player is free to vote as he wishes.

Stripo: Strip a player of his powers granted to him by his private role. The effect only lasts one phase.

Darkfall: One of the most powerful spells in the world and a spell known only by The Dark One. The day will end exactly four hours early at 7p est instead of 11p est. If Darkfall is cast The Dark One will be unable to perform a night action for two days instead of just one.

Jackal

You are one of the most respected men in all of Metou. No one suspects the Mage's Guild is in line with The Dark One, much less the Arch Mage himself. For game purposes you are a vanilla wolf.

[dubb93]

Couldn't path still duke or did it affect the king vote as well?

Cast it on the king=game over.

[RendeR]

My role was AWEOME...

If the DO attacked me I got converted to a vanilla follower of the dark one BUT

if the DO Died I turned INTO the DO over a period of days.

SOOOOOO MUCH ULTIMATE COSMIC POOOOOOOWWWWEEEEEERRRRR!!!



iiiity bitty living space....

[RendeR]

Couldn't path still duke or did it affect the king vote as well?


I'd have cast the spell ON path.

[Autumn]

Was there a cultist?

Nice game wolves.

[Autumn]

Wow, just caught up then. That makes me feel a bit better about the mechanic, Dubb, as I thought it was a bit much that the DO could come back. At least there was a limit to it and it was gradual.

[lerriuqs]

Good game dubb

[Autumn]

So, Stripo was cast against Chief that night?

It seems like the vote thing only lasts for two hours, so wouldn't they have been ablet o change their vote back?

[dubb93]

Before any balance issues are discussed I would like to state I decided to balance this with less wolves(3 to start with the possibility for 4). I also decided to throw in more night kill options/brutals b/c I didn't expect the village to lynch except in a sure thing situation(I was wrong here).

I also gave the village 2 seer mechanics and the ability to mulligan every lynch vote(they didn't take advantage of this). I also gave the village a very powerful Prison Guard role(and another CoT mechanic if played right). They also had an uber powerful BG who died well before his time.

My newspaper mechanic was a complete failure imho and I will not go back to that one again.

The village started out great when they were using the jail mechanic. They were able to redeem two wrong lynch votes in Pass and Abe and instead of being lynched both of these two were eventually freed, cleared, and elected king. I still am not following why the village abandoned this path when it was working so well for them.

[dubb93]

So, Stripo was cast against Chief that night?

It seems like the vote thing only lasts for two hours, so wouldn't they have been ablet o change their vote back?

He told me to wait until within the two hours to cast it. It was game over here guys, trust me.

[Lathum]

So, Stripo was cast against Chief that night?

It seems like the vote thing only lasts for two hours, so wouldn't they have been ablet o change their vote back?

no if the spell was used at 10:59

[dubb93]

So, Stripo was cast against Chief that night?



Yes.

[dubb93]

I think Dubb is now in line to assume Saldana's throne as the moderator who sees the most consecutive villager deaths in his game(s). That one got ugly fast for the villagers after a promising start.

Totally didn't see it coming.

[SnDvls]

what happened with the Saldana scan?

[Lathum]

I just want to say the conversation I had with Tyrith when Schmidty duked to him was high comedy.

I reacted over the top on purpose about it, but I really do think it's a really poor move to make in that spot.

[Autumn]

That makes sense Dubb, the lesser amount of wolves. I think the village did have a lot of chances to make this work. Danny getting killed early was a blow but we survived that.

I think htat the village strayed away from jail because it was *really* difficult to have anything to go on without voting records. This was a strangely low activity game and that was one reason. We had had great success with the jail early on but it meant we had no leads on wolves. That's a frustrating feeling when you're used to relying on voting records.

And knowing that we were down to just me as bodyguard andthat I couldn't stop the DO, I thought the jail was mostly compromised. Eventually we'd elect a wolf king.

[Autumn]

What happened the day Lathum "IDed" me as BG? Or rather the night before.

[lerriuqs]

That makes sense Dubb, the lesser amount of wolves. I think the village did have a lot of chances to make this work. Danny getting killed early was a blow but we survived that.

I think htat the village strayed away from jail because it was *really* difficult to have anything to go on without voting records. This was a strangely low activity game and that was one reason. We had had great success with the jail early on but it meant we had no leads on wolves. That's a frustrating feeling when you're used to relying on voting records.

And knowing that we were down to just me as bodyguard andthat I couldn't stop the DO, I thought the jail was mostly compromised. Eventually we'd elect a wolf king.

But we didn't...even today. We were going to elect path...The jail opened up that king avenue nicely.

[dubb93]

What happened the day Lathum "IDed" me as BG? Or rather the night before.

I think it was just a guess. I never IDed you to anyone in game except for Danny.

[dubb93]

I just want to say the conversation I had with Tyrith when Schmidty duked to him was high comedy.

I reacted over the top on purpose about it, but I really do think it's a really poor move to make in that spot.

I would like to hear about this conversation. I didn't get much of it but what I got told me Tyrith was not pleased to say the least.

[RendeR]

The big key for me staying out of the limelight was getting trhe support from CR early on. he cast a positive look on me and as the seer it seems like everyone bought into that. I kept my mouth shut and played on as if nothing had happened.

[Lathum]

What happened the day Lathum "IDed" me as BG? Or rather the night before.

Nothing at all. I made a fake play hoping the BG would (you) either come out or guard CR leaving the wolves free to go elsewhere and kill CR the next night. the fact you were the BG was just a gut feel.

[Autumn]

But we didn't...even today. We were going to elect path...The jail opened up that king avenue nicely.

Sure, but if we had continued relying on the jail day in and day out it would have made the king an inviting target and we would have run out of cleared characters.

[Lathum]

I would like to hear about this conversation. I didn't get much of it but what I got told me Tyrith was not pleased to say the least.

just general WTF frustrated convo.

[RendeR]

Dubb, love this game, though I had the best role overall to play with. It was SO hard to keep myself from making smart ass comments that would have blown my cover.

I did drop a few hints here and there....I thought the "Young padewan" thing might make someone look twice but it just got glossed over =)

[Autumn]

In addition, on jailing we only got away from it with Lathum's fake reveal. If we had jailed KWhit instead of lynching we would have gone on believing Lathum's reveal or forced the seer to reveal himself. without the confusion of the spell on Saldana I think the lynch worked well for us and we probably would have gone back to the jail.

[Autumn]

The big key for me staying out of the limelight was getting trhe support from CR early on. he cast a positive look on me and as the seer it seems like everyone bought into that. I kept my mouth shut and played on as if nothing had happened.

That didn't factor into anything for me, but with so little activity and little voting record I just felt like there was no reason to suspect or trust anybody, really.

[Lathum]

And for those of you who though me outing myself was a bad play I disagree. At the time Autumn's idea for the seer revealing was getting some traction. We knew the DO was back and we could kill in jail, but the village didn't, so we were worried people would follow that plan.

I had to leave for a few hours so Render and I had a frantic AIM conversation about if I should or not. We decided that if the seer comes out we get nothing since II either likely would have been scanned, or would be at some point soon. Odds are I wasn't going to make it to the end, so may as well take someone with me and maybe out the seer.

at the time I thought KWhit was the seer, I took a shot and missed, but the result was taking out a villager and wasting 2 days of history with runaway votes and meaningless cultist discussion, plus I got to make the play with Autumn that got us CR, so IMO it was a very good move.

[Autumn]

Nothing at all. I made a fake play hoping the BG would (you) either come out or guard CR leaving the wolves free to go elsewhere and kill CR the next night. the fact you were the BG was just a gut feel.

Ah, well very good gut call. I had been in fact guarding Chief, and while I thought you might be BSing at first, the fact that you tagged me made me think you really had seen me.

I could only guard every other night so I wasn't much use at that point and just tried to keep everyone unaware of that and misguided as to where I was guarding.

[Lathum]

I chuckled quite a few times imaging Kwhit reading my reveal and being like, WTF!

[lerriuqs]

Ah, well very good gut call. I had been in fact guarding Chief, and while I thought you might be BSing at first, the fact that you tagged me made me think you really had seen me.

I could only guard every other night so I wasn't much use at that point and just tried to keep everyone unaware of that and misguided as to where I was guarding.

And I tried to drop a couple hints to get the wolves looking my way - hoping they'd take me out and give CR another day or two...Didn't work I guess.

[dubb93]

You stay up all night trying to scan Saldana. You are unable to get any type of reading.

That is the PM CR recieved the night he scanned Saldana fwiw.

[Autumn]

It was a fun game, Dubb, thanks for running it. My first time being a roled villager. Danny and I definitely made the wrong choice having him guard the first night. If we had gone with my first instinct we would have gotten a block in there. I tried to atleast get something out of the rest of the game, and made a good gut call guarding Chief before he revealed.

[Abe Sargent]

Good job wolves

[Abe Sargent]

Before any balance issues are discussed I would like to state I decided to balance this with less wolves(3 to start with the possibility for 4). I also decided to throw in more night kill options/brutals b/c I didn't expect the village to lynch except in a sure thing situation(I was wrong here).

I also gave the village 2 seer mechanics and the ability to mulligan every lynch vote(they didn't take advantage of this). I also gave the village a very powerful Prison Guard role(and another CoT mechanic if played right). They also had an uber powerful BG who died well before his time.

My newspaper mechanic was a complete failure imho and I will not go back to that one again.

The village started out great when they were using the jail mechanic. They were able to redeem two wrong lynch votes in Pass and Abe and instead of being lynched both of these two were eventually freed, cleared, and elected king. I still am not following why the village abandoned this path when it was working so well for them.


I agree that for the most part the game was balanced. I think having two Brutals/cunnings is very rough, but since it was not guaranteed, I think the ruleset was balanced.

[dubb93]

Early on I had intended to send pieces of story to players throughout the game. I wrote two out before the game started but I never got around to writing any more. I wish I would have now, here are the two I sent out during the game. The first one was sent out to Tyrith and the second one went out a day later to RendeR. I had intended to write more to send out to roled players.

“Do not be afraid”, it said through the dark.

“Who is there!?” you half screamed startled. Was someone in your house?

“Do not be afraid for I offer you power beyond imagination.” It was at this point you realized you didn't actually hear the voice. You thought it. Are you going crazy?

It came at night. You were one of the most well respected scientist in all of Metou back then. Back before you died. Dead is how you choose to think of it.

Over time you would learn that the voice you heard in your head that night was actually a body-less entity. The being stole your life that night. It stole your career. It took everything. It needed your knowledge and in return it offered you protection. Offered. Not like you had a choice. It took your knowledge and in return it provided you with abilities beyond comprehension. In just a short time you went from being one of the most well respected scientist in your field to a monster. No mortal could match swords with you. No mage could stand up to your magical abilities. No seer could peak into your mind. You had become a monster.

Over time you would learn that you are not the first person to be called The Dark One. This thing has been moving from person to person since the beginning of time. It craves power. At first it would take over the greatest warriors and offer them the knowledge of great warriors prior to them. When it became obvious that would not work it began offering the brightest minds in the land the power of these warriors in exchange for their knowledge. Then it came to you.

This “thing” will stop at nothing to enslave all of Metou. Over time you began to hope it will accomplish this goal while it is still inside you.

The Dark One. Ever since you first heard the name you were intrigued rather than scared. In school you asked questions that made your teachers uncomfortable in regards to The Dark One. You spent your whole life being the outcast. You were so obsessed with The Dark One that it got in the way of relationships.

As you grew older and it became increasingly obvious you were smarter than everyone else around you the teasing became worse. When you finally became a scientist you dedicated your life to the study of The Dark One.

Oh the secrets you have learned. You and you alone know that The Dark One is in fact not immortal. Instead The Dark One is more like a parasite that latches itself onto a target until it no longer has any use for them. When it leaves its host, the host dies, but the parasite is able to maintain the knowledge and strength of it's previous hosts.

You have found evidence to support this theory.

You also know that when the parasite was young it would target the greatest warriors and offer them the strength of previous great warriors before them.

You know this failed and the parasite has recently been targeting the greatest minds and offering them the strength of great warriors of the past.

And you know that you are next in line to benefit from this parasite.

Parasite.....You would hardly call it that.

[Autumn]

That would have been fun, Dubb, to add something like that to the game. I like the roleplaying aspects of this, though anyone annoyed by Dr. Doom in the last Marvel game probably doesn't.

[Abe Sargent]

My plan was even better except for the forced vote thing. We had just two wolves, so we had three villagers and path as King to duke it with a 50/50 chance of hitting Jackal/RendeR. I would have duked Jackal if I had been left alive, but I knew I was biting it.

[path12]

Couldn't path still duke or did it affect the king vote as well?


FWIW I was planning on duking to Jackal if I had the chance.

[Autumn]

I think something to keep in mind for GMs is that having any unpublished rules at all is an advantage to the wolves. Especially if it regards wolf roles or powers. Not knowing what the Dark One could do, for instance, was a big factor in getting Saldana lynched. If we were wiser we should have postulated that the Dark One might have interfered with the scan. But having anything like that out there, along with the Cultist mysteries, makes the game much harder for the village. That should count as another plus on the wolf side to balance.

[The Jackal]

Whew. I figured you guys would be hot on me today but we had a few options to play around with. Good game everyone!

[Autumn]

Also this game has simply cemented my stereotypes of Jackal, Render and Lathum as wolves and Chief and DaddyT as helpful villagers. I keep trying not to play into the stereotypes but maybe I should.

[path12]

Good game wolves, and thanks for running it and inviting me, dubb.

I understand where you were going now with the saldana scan, but I still think it was an unbalancing ability.

Especially since (and this isn't a design issue) the game evolved to one where a lot of information was not forthcoming. The only real thing we had to go with (because voting records were not helpful) was Chief's scans. Once those were called into question the game really fell apart for us.

I think Lathum was the MVP of this game. He sacrificed himself but he gained two complete days of no voting records and bought RendeR and Jackal time to do their thing at night. Well done.

[The Jackal]

Yeah, thanks dubb, very fun and well-written game.

[Tyrith]

BTW, if I didn't get duked on D2 our original plan for N2 was to have Lathum kill Render. Yeah, game would have been a little different at that point.

The abilities of the Dark One seem a lot less unbalanced when you look at it from the perspective that we started with three wolves in a game of 21 people and a vast sum of villager abilities. If it was a normal brutal/cunning/vanilla wolf game you could make a pretty good argument that we would have needed 5 wolves + cultist. Further, Render's brutal and cunning, nor my cunning, never actually came into play.

[Schmidty]

This is very disappointing. One of my favorite WW moments goes to waste.

[SnDvls]

my fellow villagers had me all wrong the whole time, but CR

[The Jackal]

This is very disappointing. One of my favorite WW moments goes to waste.

Sorry. That was a hell of a friggin duke though.

[Chief Rum]

Thanks for running the game, dubb.

I think dropping a wolf (which I actually began to suspect about the time I died, for what good it did then) helped with balance a ton, but I still think the DO was too powerful, and especially making the cultist be the one who inherits the powers.

I think the main issue I had isn't so much with balance, which I think was fairly close, but with the lack of public information. More about the DO's powers should have been known, IMO. Unpublished roles really have a poor effect on the ability to form trust circles, and as mentioned, it's advantageous to wolves to have those in there.

I agree in general with dubb's thoughts on the jail mechanic, but that one of the main issues with it, as mentioned, is that it essentially remvoed the value of voting records, which is probably one of the biggest villager advantages.

Really, IMO, there just wasn't enough verifiable information in this one for villagers, and in that respect, I think this ruleset is skewed to the wolves. In this particular game, villager decisions made it worse (and bad luck simply), but it's hard to blame the village when they really had nothing to go on.

Honestly without Schmidty's shocking duking, this game would have been even more obviously skewed by some of the mechanics. Schmidty's move essentially made us look better than we were.

I still had fun. Wish I had been a better seer, though.

[Chief Rum]

FTR, Render was the only one left after early in the game who had voted Danny for King, and voted with Danny on Day One in the lynch/jail. For that reason, I thought Render was the White Knight, which is what I was driving at before I died, about slightly elevating him in trust. It was a bad read.

Strangely enough, I really felt my trust breakdowns were slight all around, but much more was made of my elevating SnDvls and Render than was intended (and I was too dead to be able to correct that).

Poor play as the seer by myself, IMO. I should have been more careful, knowing my opinion would be weighed more heavily as the seer.

On Lathum, I thought that was an interesting play and a good idea. It didn't work to the level he had probably hoped, but it wasn't a bad move, especially in hindsight knowing the DO was for sure on his way back.

[Danny]

FTR, Render was the only one left after early in the game who had voted Danny for King, and voted with Danny on Day One in the lynch/jail. For that reason, I thought Render was the White Knight, which is what I was driving at before I died, about slightly elevating him in trust. It was a bad read.

Especially considering I did not want to be King and made sure Autumn did not vote for me. I played that cool because I didn't want to tip the wolves off to having an important role, but I definitely did not want to be King as that would have resulted in a likely early death.

[KWhit]

The village started out great when they were using the jail mechanic. They were able to redeem two wrong lynch votes in Pass and Abe and instead of being lynched both of these two were eventually freed, cleared, and elected king. I still am not following why the village abandoned this path when it was working so well for them.

Yeah. Me either.

[Autumn]

Yeah, Danny and I tried not to show any links in game, which paid off in that he got killed so early I could have followed right after. We were a bit worried that he was going to get elected, and I worried about it myself as I became one of the few cleared villagers left. I thought the villagers played a good game in the sense of not having to reveal early. And the wolves played just as well at not revealing themselves.

[RendeR]

FTR, Render was the only one left after early in the game who had voted Danny for King, and voted with Danny on Day One in the lynch/jail. For that reason, I thought Render was the White Knight, which is what I was driving at before I died, about slightly elevating him in trust. It was a bad read.

Strangely enough, I really felt my trust breakdowns were slight all around, but much more was made of my elevating SnDvls and Render than was intended (and I was too dead to be able to correct that).

Poor play as the seer by myself, IMO. I should have been more careful, knowing my opinion would be weighed more heavily as the seer.

On Lathum, I thought that was an interesting play and a good idea. It didn't work to the level he had probably hoped, but it wasn't a bad move, especially in hindsight knowing the DO was for sure on his way back.


Normally you read me like a book CR, I'm kinda glad I fuddled you a bit this game =) Gives me hope that I can be a better player =)

[path12]

Yeah. Me either.

I'll stick with my view that the non-relevance of voting records with jailing really tied our hands down the road.

[Barkeep49]

I'll stick with my view that the non-relevance of voting records with jailing really tied our hands down the road.
I would agree with this and say it was made worse by the several days of landslide voting. I got lynched for no good reason this game and I regret not pushing back harder on saldana. I didn't do so because of the existing suspicion but I think it was that day we really went off the rails.

[dubb93]

I'll stick with my view that the non-relevance of voting records with jailing really tied our hands down the road.

I would really like to debate this so I have more to go on for future games. Do we really think the lack of voting records had to do with the jail mechanic? As far as I can tell both players that were jailed were freed very shortly after they were jailed as cleared villagers. This would be the time to re-evaluate the voting record.

I think the non-relevance of the voting record had very little to do with the jail mechanic and very much to do with the landslide votes. Of the 8 votes atleast half of them had every player vote for the same person(or atleast it seemed this way). That is why the village had nothing to go on. It had little to do with the jail mechanic.

I think the bigger issue is figuring out what if anything caused all of the landslide votes.

[Autumn]

I don't think it was only the landslides, Dubb, but you're right that those were much of it. The fact that we jailed a couple villagers and then didn't know for a long time what their allegiance was meant those early votes were meaningless for days and days, and then in the end were still meaningless since no wolves were involved.

I liked the jail mechanic in that it gave us a second chance. But the lack of reveals was a major handicap in it, and I don't know if the mechanic came around again if we could convince the village to jail anyone.

The landslide votes were basically results of the wolves, and so that worked great for them. The lack of discussion in the game was one of our biggest problems as a village, I think, and I'm not sure if that had something to do with the lack of voting record, as people kept claiming, or something else.

[USFLTecmo]

What kept me from wanting to jail anyone after Abe was released was that we didn't have a clue that someone had the mechanic to release a prisoner like that without a prison rush by the wolves. Sure, Abe could tell us that he could only do it once, but really, are we supposed to believe that no one else can screw with it?

[hoopsguy]

USFL, my gut on something like that would be "yes, only one player can do it" but I would suspect Abe was lying about not being able to do it again.

But once Abe was cleared I would have felt pretty good about putting folks in jail.

Just my two cents as someone who has played in a few games with hidden info ... something that I know you have said causes you some consternation in trying to get into the flow of a game.

[path12]

I would really like to debate this so I have more to go on for future games. Do we really think the lack of voting records had to do with the jail mechanic? As far as I can tell both players that were jailed were freed very shortly after they were jailed as cleared villagers. This would be the time to re-evaluate the voting record.

I think the non-relevance of the voting record had very little to do with the jail mechanic and very much to do with the landslide votes. Of the 8 votes atleast half of them had every player vote for the same person(or atleast it seemed this way). That is why the village had nothing to go on. It had little to do with the jail mechanic.

I think the bigger issue is figuring out what if anything caused all of the landslide votes.

I agree with you that the landslide votes didn't help.

Here's my feeling about the jail option (fully recognizing I might be on an island here and stating up front that it's not a black/white issue)

When you have to lynch a fellow player, you put yourself on the record with that vote. If you are wrong they are dead and the wolves are either that much closer to winning or losing. There is a consequence, and as such there is a value to that vote as far as analysis goes: Did player X make a key vote? Did they toss out a meaningless vote? Did they save a wolf or a roled player (a question often answered down the road). When the vote has a direct consequence it carries a greater weight as far as analysis goes as the game progresses.

When you can vote for a player with no real consequence (eg that player remains in the game), there is less weight to a players vote. Does it matter that player X voted to jail or lynch the second place votegetter? Is a wolf more likely to vote to jail a fellow wolf than lynch him? I guess so. But if I've got to try and analyze votes like the first couple days, I've got mainly two people on the block, but I've got jail votes and lynch votes and the analysis process (which is especially key for vanilla villagers) becomes muddled.

[SnDvls]

I don't think it was only the landslides, Dubb, but you're right that those were much of it. The fact that we jailed a couple villagers and then didn't know for a long time what their allegiance was meant those early votes were meaningless for days and days, and then in the end were still meaningless since no wolves were involved.

I liked the jail mechanic in that it gave us a second chance. But the lack of reveals was a major handicap in it, and I don't know if the mechanic came around again if we could convince the village to jail anyone.

The landslide votes were basically results of the wolves, and so that worked great for them. The lack of discussion in the game was one of our biggest problems as a village, I think, and I'm not sure if that had something to do with the lack of voting record, as people kept claiming, or something else.

the lack of discussion was really a lack of information due to the lack of good info. I like the Jail option for day 1, but after that it really does start to work in the wolves favor. We had not info voting record wise and got some info from our seer, but couldn't really make a whole lot out of it with the runaway votes taking over the game. Vanilla villagers really were the people with the biggest disadvantage as we couldn't stick our necks out there, we had nothing to offer up to save ourselves in a lynch and nothing to offer to discussion as there was nothing to analyzie...we could only grasp and little things (like me going after Autumn for the flip flopping)

[hoopsguy]

I didn't get to play in the game long enough to really experience the mechanic, but I think I would have been on the pro-jail side most of the game. I've always found jail to be a real pain for me when I was a wolf with jail as an option for the villagers.

If I'm given a choice between having more live villagers to help me with my ratio or dead villagers (roled and unroled) plus voting records I'll take my chances with more villagers. More days with more villagers = more time for the roled villagers to do something good.

I would treat the jail votes like lynch votes in terms of holding people accountable. And I do not think that I would have that hard of a time badgering people - whether they felt pressured to respond to me is another matter entirely.

I always feel that the vanilla villager has the least to lose by playing an aggressive game, no matter what tools are or are not at the overall disposal of the village. So why not question people? What are you really putting on the line, other than yourself? If you die because you questioned people then at least you have helped save the roled villagers for another cycle.

Anyway, there are a lot of different arguments captured in this post. Mostly because there have been a few different ideas floated on the value (or lack thereof) around jail and the reasons for quiet play.

[Danny]

I think the early deaths of Hoops and I were the single biggest factor for the village not winning the game ;)

[DaddyTorgo]

*sigh*

[Schmidty]

I think the early deaths of Hoops and I were the single biggest factor for the village not winning the game ;)

AND SCHMIDTY THE GREAT!!!! ;)

[dubb93]

Let us not forget that of the two players jailed one was jailed on day 1 and released as cleared day 2. The other was jailed day 3 and released as clear on night 4 although he was cleared night 3 by multiple scans. So basically every player that was jailed had information out about them almost immediately.

I'm just not buying the whole lack of information with the jail mechanic. Every player jailed was cleared by the next day or night and released.

[saldana]

Let us not forget that of the two players jailed one was jailed on day 1 and released as cleared day 2. The other was jailed day 3 and released as clear on night 4 although he was cleared night 3 by multiple scans. So basically every player that was jailed had information out about them almost immediately.

I'm just not buying the whole lack of information with the jail mechanic. Every player jailed was cleared by the next day or night and released.


first off, very nicely done, i enjoyed it thouroughly.

second, yes, the players that went to jail ended up cleared, which gave us 1 person in the COT...by not having any voting records though, we never had an opportunity to add to that circle...this game was owned by the seer...the jail mechanic in the first 3 days completely destroyed the regular vanilla villagers ability to make decisions...basically, the circle formed so slowly through the jail/release, that the wolves were able to keep up with it growing

lastly, i told you jackal was a wolf on day 4 and not a single one of you listened to me :D

[dubb93]

first off, very nicely done, i enjoyed it thouroughly.


Without your HP game there would have been no Dark One or Order of Righteousness. That was the game that most inspired me to create this rule set so long ago.

[The Jackal]

lastly, i told you jackal was a wolf on day 4 and not a single one of you listened to me :D

:cool:

[KWhit]

I would really like to debate this so I have more to go on for future games. Do we really think the lack of voting records had to do with the jail mechanic? As far as I can tell both players that were jailed were freed very shortly after they were jailed as cleared villagers. This would be the time to re-evaluate the voting record.

I think the non-relevance of the voting record had very little to do with the jail mechanic and very much to do with the landslide votes. Of the 8 votes atleast half of them had every player vote for the same person(or atleast it seemed this way). That is why the village had nothing to go on. It had little to do with the jail mechanic.

I think the bigger issue is figuring out what if anything caused all of the landslide votes.

My POV on it was that we would still have voting information, even on the jailed people, we just got it a couple of days later than we normally would have. And the ability to have "do-overs" on early vote-getters was a huge benefit to the village.

[Tyrith]

The landslide votes were basically results of the wolves, and so that worked great for them. The lack of discussion in the game was one of our biggest problems as a village, I think, and I'm not sure if that had something to do with the lack of voting record, as people kept claiming, or something else.

To be quite frank, that was my/our plan with this game. Historically there were a lot more games where all the good/talkative players got killed early, and I figured it was time to give that strategy a one game comeback. It worked perfectly, as by the time the landslide votes started happening there was no one willing to push hard enough to stop it.

[Chief Rum]

Let us not forget that of the two players jailed one was jailed on day 1 and released as cleared day 2. The other was jailed day 3 and released as clear on night 4 although he was cleared night 3 by multiple scans. So basically every player that was jailed had information out about them almost immediately.

I'm just not buying the whole lack of information with the jail mechanic. Every player jailed was cleared by the next day or night and released.

Jail didn't clear the first, and it's disingenious to even call that a straight clear, considering all the debating back and forth about clap/Abe the next day. Pass's allegiance was linked to confirming clap/Abe's allegiance, and the key "power" was clap/Abe's individual role ability, not jail.

As you noted, the second in jail was cleared by both the seer and the king.

Not saying the jail didn't play its role, as clap can't talk to a prisoner unless the prisoner is in jail, and the king can't scan anyone but prisoners, but still, we're talking a one time mechanic on one, and a 20% chance of success after the other--and that's only after negotiating a full day's vote to put them in jail in the first place. And clap's ability wasn't public, so we didn't even know about that (if we had, woulda saved much time the first two days, this is why I'm not fond of hidden roles and abilities).

The likelihood of getting quality, useable information from that in a reasonable amount of time was far negated by the virtual elimination in value of the votes in determining allegiance.

Really, the more and more I look at it, I am quite amazed we the village got any wolves at all (and they handed one to us).

[Passacaglia]

So why couldn't saldana be scanned?

[The Jackal]

So why couldn't saldana be scanned?

Because we used stripo in CR that night, preventing him from using his ability.

[The Jackal]

on, too

[Danny]

It a wonder CR was able to get out of bed after you guys used stripo in and out of him, let alone scan someone.

[hoopsguy]

Danny was channeling jbmagic in the above post.

[The Jackal]

RendeR and I had a nice plan worked out to use Darkfall too but you just had to go and lynch the brutal villager, didn't you. :)

[Tyrith]

RendeR and I had a nice plan worked out to use Darkfall too but you just had to go and lynch the brutal villager, didn't you. :)

I'm so sad that he didn't get to use that ability, I think it could have been one of the great WTF moments in WW history.