WW CXXIV: When Worlds Collide - Game Over!

[The Jackal]

I mean, the voting for me the past couple of days have been outlying votes. Granted Cthulu and then Dwight with his ability made yesterday's matter somewhat, but the spreading out of the votes is not particularly what we want at this juncture. You've been asking everyone to follow you on to me because of your gut .. no scan, no suspicious action I've taken, not even a terrible vote record. I'm not asking you to lay out your case again, we've had enough of that back and forth, but I'm about at wits end trying to argue with you. :)

[Darth Vilus]

That's a fair argument and I did give it consideration. But to me that one thing doesn't make up for my other reasons, especially compared with taking a shot in the dark with the rest of the people left. And the other side of the coin is if Thursday knew he was going down, the next best thing he could give the remaining wolf (wolves) other than another villager kill is trust for the other teammate(s). That's exactly what hoops did for DV in the Dark Knight game.

This is something I've kept in mind as well

[The Jackal]

DV can I ask why you voted for me yesterday? You sort've asked about people and then flybyed me with no reasoning.

[The Jackal]

If it was because I was the only other candidate and you thought NTN was a goner, I understand. But I'm not a wolf, and today is different.

[JAG]

I mean, the voting for me the past couple of days have been outlying votes. Granted Cthulu and then Dwight with his ability made yesterday's matter somewhat, but the spreading out of the votes is not particularly what we want at this juncture. You've been asking everyone to follow you on to me because of your gut .. no scan, no suspicious action I've taken, not even a terrible vote record. I'm not asking you to lay out your case again, we've had enough of that back and forth, but I'm about at wits end trying to argue with you. :)

The short version is a combo of you have nothing to point to to clear you to the extent that others do and a general vibe that you've been playing it very safe with your opinions and not trying to stick out moreso than others.

[Zinto]

I am much more inclined to go with Jag on a vote today then Jackal. My reasons are kind of meta-gamey but neither have done much in terms of proving to be a villager or wolf and neither have pinged me one way or the other. Jag just is a really strong villager and if he has a feeling on someone it could be wrong but I at least want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Zinto]

Also if Jag is a wolf he is lucky that he has earned my trust so much in these situations and more then likely I would follow him down a path like this regardless of the game.

[The Jackal]

The short version is a combo of you have nothing to point to to clear you to the extent that others do and a general vibe that you've been playing it very safe with your opinions and not trying to stick out moreso than others.

And you don't think wolves would make an effort to have something to clear them? Obviously not everyone who's used an action to clear a villager or against a wolf is a wolf, but smart wolves lay nuggets in their favor. I haven't had the opportunity to use an interaction, so that's why I've got nothing pointing to clear me. I'm just been trying to make the best votes I can. Would it be better if I led a campaign against someone on gut? I don't have a particularly strong read on anyone, just an idea that a wolf would've used any opportunity they could to have something to raise them above others nearing endgame. And when I've gone out on a limb, it's been either the mckerney theory, who I was clearly wrong about and didn't even stick with, or hulk, which you've framed as making me look bad anyways. So.. yeah.

[Zinto]

I guess saying Jag over Jackal is not a good explanation when Jackal is not going over Jag. I am just saying that I would be much more inclined to vote for Jackal today. If we come to the understanding that Jag is the better choice for today then so be it I will vote for him.

[The Jackal]

I agree with you that JAG is a strong villager, but usually he does a lot more analyzing when he's a villager. Granted he hasn't felt hes needed to analyze beyond NTN/me the past couple of days, but still. There isn't any solid info to say I'm not a wolf, but there isn't any solid info to say that I am.. I don't envy anyone picking if it's a JAG vs me showdown, and I didn't really want it to come to that situation anyways.

[The Jackal]

I've got to finish getting dinner ready, Ill try to check back in later to see if there's been any movement instead of leaving a vote on an outlying candidate right now. I still think focusing attacks is the best route hereon out.

[Zinto]

I tend to believe that one of chubby, mau, and zinto are a wolf. I said earlier that I expected a wolf to use an ability/interaction to clear a villager (or in mau's case kill a wolf) and in a game with more than a few wolves I think it's a guarantee one of them did so.


I wouldn't doubt this was true either. It would make sense to buy trust someway if you where a wolf. The only counter to that is what if the wolves where waiting until a later day to fake a scan. Then Danny says that no more scans can be given out through character interaction so their plan would fall apart.

[Zinto]

Also for all the talk that Jag was holding up lynching NTNT there are some things wrong with it. For one Eagle told us NTN had 7 health and 0 defense. Why would everyone need to vote for NTN that day? More then likely we over killed him a bit. Second is why would Jag make a concerted effort as a wolf to try and pull away votes from someone who was going to turn up to be a wolf eventually? It does not seem like a very sound wolf strategy to me.

[Zinto]

So given the general state of things I think Hulk might be our best choice. We have no reason to think he's guilty, but unlike others definitely no reason to think he's innocent.

Athena attacks Hulk

I understand the reasoning but I am refusing to vote for the Hulk again. Sure he has given us nothing but as long as Schmidty is getting on to vote I am fine with him being alive.

[Zinto]

Anyways I figure I should lay down my vote fro now and see what happens.

Dwight attacks Keyser

[JAG]

And you don't think wolves would make an effort to have something to clear them? Obviously not everyone who's used an action to clear a villager or against a wolf is a wolf, but smart wolves lay nuggets in their favor. I haven't had the opportunity to use an interaction, so that's why I've got nothing pointing to clear me. I'm just been trying to make the best votes I can. Would it be better if I led a campaign against someone on gut? I don't have a particularly strong read on anyone, just an idea that a wolf would've used any opportunity they could to have something to raise them above others nearing endgame. And when I've gone out on a limb, it's been either the mckerney theory, who I was clearly wrong about and didn't even stick with, or hulk, which you've framed as making me look bad anyways. So.. yeah.

Just to be clear, I don't just mean special abilities / interactions for stuff to point to, I'm also talking votes. EF and BK had very solid votes on ntn, Chubby attacking and being attacked by CF prior to his wolf scan, and whatever else I laid out earlier today.

[Chubby]

Also for all the talk that Jag was holding up lynching NTNT there are some things wrong with it. For one Eagle told us NTN had 7 health and 0 defense. Why would everyone need to vote for NTN that day? More then likely we over killed him a bit. Second is why would Jag make a concerted effort as a wolf to try and pull away votes from someone who was going to turn up to be a wolf eventually? It does not seem like a very sound wolf strategy to me.

I think people are forgetting the order of things. JAG voted at 12:15 PM (post #1289), 25 minutes after Danny processed the day and he was the 1st vote. he refused to even consider moving his vote the whole day. It's not like he got his vote in at 8pm when it was already decided ntn was going down.

[Darth Vilus]

DV can I ask why you voted for me yesterday? You sort've asked about people and then flybyed me with no reasoning.

i was just looking through other candidates and decided on you. i actually didnt even notice that ntn voted you til later. i was just looking back through votes and was trying to see where the last wolf might be hiding

[Darth Vilus]

So given the general state of things I think Hulk might be our best choice. We have no reason to think he's guilty, but unlike others definitely no reason to think he's innocent.

Athena attacks Hulk


Why? And he's so strong do you even think we could take him? Sounds like a wasted vote to me

[Darth Vilus]

and a wasted day of voting

[Zinto]

I think people are forgetting the order of things. JAG voted at 12:15 PM (post #1289), 25 minutes after Danny processed the day and he was the 1st vote. he refused to even consider moving his vote the whole day. It's not like he got his vote in at 8pm when it was already decided ntn was going down.


I would assume a wolf would vote for another wolf though. Why would a wolf float his vote out on someone else when even before Jag voted a consensus had been decided that NTN was a wolf and used his ability to avoid damage. Jags vote stands out to much for a wolf to do.

[Danny]

As of 1519

Keyser Soze: Melisandre, Dwight
Hulk: Athena
Melissandre: Super Grover, Oscar, Keyser
Oscar: Mal, Jayne

[Zinto]

NTN voting Jacal almost seems like a wolf trying to throw us off anothers trail. Why not just attack Autumn when he was going down? It doesn't make sense to even began to start clearing someone like that at this point in the game.

[Chubby]

Mal and jayne switched to jag right before your previous update danny

[Darth Vilus]

I would look at JAG, Jackal, and Barkeep personally

[JAG]

DV, if you think BK, then you have to assume Zinto is a wolf because he cleared him with a soothsayer statement. It makes no sense to vote BK before Zinto.

[Zinto]

If you think Barkeep is a wolf lynch me first. That way when I come up a villager it will clear him. Lynching Barkeep first does not clear anyone.

[Darth Vilus]

I'd pick one of the other two first but what reason can you give for him wanting to take down Hulk?

[The Jackal]

I'd pick one of the other two first but what reason can you give for him wanting to take down Hulk?

I believe his reasoning is that we still don't know if Schmidty will come around everyday to make a vote, and on top of that we have no idea if the hulk is a good character or not. There hasn't been anything to clear him, just the idea that he hasn't been around and that's unlikely to be a wolf?

[Darth Vilus]

Does it make sense to anyone? If you were that last wolf and there was aplayer that strong out there who did random attacks wouldnt you be nervous?

I'm not saying lynch him now, just think about it. Would he beable to nightkill him? Very doubtful. that means he would have to get him lynched

[Darth Vilus]

wouldnt you take out the risk of being attacked when everyone else believed you to be good?

[The Jackal]

But yes, if you think BK is bad that means Zinto/BK are likely the last two wolves. Which is still entirely possible, especially since if Zinto came up wolf it wouldn't necessarily mean BK was a wolf either, and they could be hoping to keep him alive. But that seems like a very low percentage vote at this point.

[Darth Vilus]

Think about it objectively

[The Jackal]

I had postured earlier DV that maybe Schmidty's attacks are random but can only hit villagers. Would be an interesting wolf ability, but probably isn't the case. But if you really think BK is bad, Zinto has to be the vote ahead of him.

[The Jackal]

I understand what you're driving at. By why are you so sure the hulk is good? That's where BK is coming from. He could still be a wolf, and if he is we're pretty much f'ed for meta-gamey type reasons.

[Zinto]

I understand that BK's attack is head scratching and if I was anyone else in the game I would be jumping all over him for doing so as well. It does not make any sense to take attack the Hulk and if we where going to try and kill him we should have done so yesterday.

[Darth Vilus]

My vibe mainly, i just dont think hulk is. you dont have to listen to me, im just saying my peace

[JAG]

Dont forget to get in interactions / attacks for the special characters if you haven't already.

[Danny]

As of 1538

Keyser Soze: Melisandre, Dwight
Hulk: Athena
Melissandre: Super Grover, Oscar, Keyser, Mal, Jayne

[Danny]

Missing Ctulu, Hulk and Duke Nukem

[Danny]

Although my plans were cancelled, don't forget the deadline is in 30 minutes.

[EagleFan]

30 minutes? oops, almost forgot... was thinking 10 for some reason.

[Darth Vilus]

Attack Melisandre

I thought i had awhile left lol. My bad

[EagleFan]

Duke attacks Hulk

Still debating but this is a place holder since it looks like we may be another random attack from him.

[Zinto]

I am pretty sure we do have until ten so an hour and half left.

[Danny]

No, 23 minutes now, I had changed deadline to 6 because I had plans and wasn't going to be around after that. My plans got cancelled, but I want to stick to the deadline I set.

[Danny]

Keyser Soze: Melisandre, Dwight
Hulk: Athena, Eaglefan
Melissandre: Super Grover, Oscar, Keyser, Mal, Jayne, Cthulu

[Zinto]

Oh I did not even see that you had changed the deadline.

[Danny]

Just missing Hulk now

[EagleFan]

Okay, I wasn't going crazy. It has been 10 up until tonight.

[EagleFan]

Good thing I checked back. Was going to check back aound 9:30 and see from there.

(This helping your thread count Danny? :) )

[Danny]

Yes, it's been 10 until tonight

[Danny]

Yes, I think I will be able to hit the first page after today

[EagleFan]

unattack Hulk

attack Keyser

Sorry, am completely unsure who to attack but I doubt that just two of us are going to take out Hulk.

[Chubby]

the problem is he is going to attack randomly again it seems, didn't somebody suggest that it was possible for the hulk to hit harder when he is attacked himself? i feel for schmidty but this is getting out of hand for the village

/crosses fingers that the hulk hits a wolf

[Zinto]

I am more then likely going to switch to Jag if that is the consensus and it looks like it is going to be so.

[Danny]

Keyser Soze: Melisandre, Dwight, Duke
Hulk: Athena
Melissandre: Super Grover, Oscar, Keyser, Mal, Jayne, Cthulu

[Chubby]

Keyser Soze: Melisandre, Dwight, Duke
Hulk: Athena
Melissandre: Super Grover, Oscar, Keyser, Mal, Jayne, Cthulu

uhh I think you meant Duke is attacking Keyser not the Hulk :)

[EagleFan]

the problem is he is going to attack randomly again it seems, didn't somebody suggest that it was possible for the hulk to hit harder when he is attacked himself? i feel for schmidty but this is getting out of hand for the village

/crosses fingers that the hulk hits a wolf

Hulk hits harder when attacked? That would sound like the right ability for him. That also makes me wonder about BK; if it wasn't for him being cleared.

[Chubby]

danny too fast (i think he did it on purpose to up the post count!) :D

[Chubby]

Hulk hits harder when attacked? That would sound like the right ability for him. That also makes me wonder about BK; if it wasn't for him being cleared.

I swear somebody brought this up before, not today but in previous days. I can't find the post but for some reason that sticks out in my mind and yeah, it makes sense too

[Zinto]

Yeah Hulk hits harder when he is attacked. I wish barkeep did not vote and run. Hoops confirmed that to be his ability before he died.

[EagleFan]

If Z switches to Hulk so will I.

[Zinto]

I can switch to Hulk or we can make sure we finish off Jag it is up to you Eagle or anyone else who wants to throw in their opinion. I don't want to attack the Hulk and I would prefer to attack Jag.

[EagleFan]

If you and I switch to Hulk you may finish him off.

[Zinto]

Since if we pile on the Hulk he is more likely to kill one of us and it is a higher chance he will hit a villager.

[EagleFan]

He just went back over 25%; we should be able to finish him.

[EagleFan]

unattack Keyser

attack Hulk

[EagleFan]

You gain extra attack if you switch.

[Chubby]

it's up to you guys, how many HPs you think he has left? not much time left :(

[Danny]

Keyser Soze: Melisandre, Dwight
Hulk: Athena, Duke
Melissandre: Super Grover, Oscar, Keyser, Mal, Jayne, Cthulu

[Zinto]

Argh all right I will attack the Hulk. I feel alright about Jag and we cant continue to be hurt by the Hulk.

Dwight unattacks Keyser
Dwight attacks the Hulk

[Chubby]

ahh bold it!

[Danny]

bold it real quick

[Zinto]

Dwight unattacks Keyser
Dwight attacks the Hulk

[Danny]

Keyser Soze: Melisandre
Hulk: Athena, Duke, Dwight
Melissandre: Super Grover, Oscar, Keyser, Mal, Jayne, Cthulu

[Danny]

Deadline

[EagleFan]

You have extra attack power now Z, thanks to the interaction I won yesterday. This should finish him I would assume.

[Chubby]

/crosses fingers it's enough. I have no clue your guys' attack or hulk's HP. This was why I lobbied yesterday to look at Hulk too but nobody wanted to with Schmidty voting, which i do understand. Just a tough position for us IMO

[EagleFan]

Though I think he is a villager, but a dangerous one with those Hulk attacks.

[Zinto]

I also had extra attack power from being the last vote. So he is definitely(hopefully) done.

[Zinto]

So more then likely if he attacks a villager they are gone also.

[Danny]

Hulk lashes out at Athena

[Darth Vilus]

Oh I did not even see that you had changed the deadline.

lol, neither did I

[Danny]

Hulk has been killed, Schmidty was a villager.

No players are wounded.

[Chubby]

Hulk lashes out at Athena

uuuuggggghhhhhh

[EagleFan]

Sorry Schmidty. Hope you feel better though.

[Chubby]

Hulk has been killed, Schmidty was a villager.

No players are wounded.

the only better result would have been schmidty being a wolf.

I was worried about BK taking Hulk's rage but we seem to have weathered the storm

[Darth Vilus]

Hulk has been killed, Schmidty was a villager.

No players are wounded.

Told ya

[Chubby]

Sorry Schmidty. Hope you feel better though.

+1

[EagleFan]

Wow, thought that some damage would have been done to Mel.

[Danny]

Character actions are being processed now

[JAG]

A sucky result alas.

[Chubby]

Told ya

That he was a villager? It wasn't whether people believed you or not but it was the risk of Hulk taking out trusted villagers randomly. Athena took the hit like a champ and we made out good this time.

[Zinto]

I am surprised that Athena did not even get wounded. Looks like Jag did not either which sets us up to have only one kill today which is alright even if it was a villager.

[Danny]

Character actions done. Night deadline is 9am eastern.

[mauchow]

I do not agree with this move but that's okay I understand the reasoning.

[JAG]

I dedicate my game from day 4 or 5 til Keyser or I die to Lathum. Sorry you didn't make it past the early game, but I've carried the torch as best I could.

[JAG]

I wonder if Cthulu has a restriction on who he can attack. He was on Jackal yesterday, me today, he attacked Sauron after he was scanned good, he asked about every player the other day...I'm thinking he might only be able to attack each player once and if he has no legal targets, he dies. Just pure speculation and even if I'm right it doesn't really matter much.

[Schmidty]

Attack Melissandre

[Schmidty]

F******CK

[Schmidty]

I can't believe this. I just happen to remember right at 7, run to the computer and just miss it by seconds.

Someone please kill me.

[Barkeep49]

Yeah I wasn't aware of the early deadline myself though it is right there in the thread title :).

[EagleFan]

Someone please kill me.

we did already...


Sorry, couldn't resist. Hope you are feeling better.

[The Jackal]

Some craziness near deadline there. I can't fault people for taking out the hulk, especially since I've been encouraging it. Sucks he wasn't a wolf, but at least the random attacks are done with. Will echo the good thoughts towards Schmidty. I hope one of these times you can play and enjoy yourself! Don't worry about what happened here, just get better.

[The Jackal]

I assume I'll be around tomorrow.. so see you then

[The Jackal]

I wonder if Cthulu has a restriction on who he can attack. He was on Jackal yesterday, me today, he attacked Sauron after he was scanned good, he asked about every player the other day...I'm thinking he might only be able to attack each player once and if he has no legal targets, he dies. Just pure speculation and even if I'm right it doesn't really matter much.

Because it's apparently my job to nitpick everything you say! Sauron wasn't scanned good, he was guarded by Autumn N1 (which we can now assume was the truth since Autumn is cleared) and there was no NK, lending people to believe hoops was good.

But in all seriousness that sounds like a fairly reasonable guess on what Cthulu's powers are like. I really have no idea.

[mauchow]

I cannot believe we didn't kill off Melisandre still to get something out of the day. Ah, well. See everyone tomorrow.

[JAG]

Because it's apparently my job to nitpick everything you say! Sauron wasn't scanned good, he was guarded by Autumn N1 (which we can now assume was the truth since Autumn is cleared) and there was no NK, lending people to believe hoops was good.

But in all seriousness that sounds like a fairly reasonable guess on what Cthulu's powers are like. I really have no idea.

You're right, I misremembered that, though the point remains that the attack was still rather inexplicable in light of what Autumn said.

[JAG]

BK, I see you lurking, do you have to post?

[Barkeep49]

BK, I see you lurking, do you have to post?
Huh?

[JAG]

Oops, meant do you have time to post?

In case you're slated for death, is there anything else you can confirm about my night action(s) from your Harry Potter spell? I'm not going to hold much or anything back at this point.

[Barkeep49]

I have no other information that I want to get out there right now. My Harry Potter spell info is all out there so if I die, there's not a lot I can add at the moment.

[JAG]

Hm alright, well that's kind of a bummer for me but I'll make do.

[mauchow]

Whistle while you work.

[Danny]

Processing night deadline

[Danny]

Eaglefan has been killed. He was a villager

I'll send out health updates now

[Danny]

Health updates sent out

[Danny]

Today's characters

Hercules
Dick Solomon

[Danny]

Deadline is the normal time at 10pm eastern

[EagleFan]

Good luck village.

[JAG]

I did not win Gandalf, hopefully a villager did.

Despite that I tried to imply it, my power to 'predict' attacks was not a
one-time use power. *It's an every night use power. *I've been trying to keep
that information from the wolves (and probably past the point of where it was
wise to do so) for the potential utility in the endgame, but I can't imagine
today will be anything other than a JAG vs. Jackal referendum barring some
shocking revelation so there's no point in not laying my cards down right away. *
This hopefully explains why I haven't talked about the ability, why I tried to
be as vague as possible with BK, why I've done all these seemingly one-man
attacks on Jackal (they've all been aided by an additional person), and why I
didn't get as hurt as you might've expected after the attacks on me yesterday
(one of the people who attacked me actually attacked Jackal). *I was hoping BK could confirm this, but it seems like his Harry Potter power didn't tell him
what I had been doing each night, just a general idea of what my ability was. *I hope you realize that if I was a wolf I could've made far more chaotic and
effective use of this power than I have done so as a villager (e.g. killing off
weak villager characters by sending strong characters at them and having
everyone wonder how they died). *Anyway, I think my reasoning for holding off on revealing this was probably faulty, it probably would've saved some attacks on me if I had done so earlier and maybe been more believable (though this ability is very easily verified), but I misjudged that I would be viewed as suspiciously as I have been and I kept expecting Keyser to be knocked off, shown to be a wolf, and thereby clearing me, but unfortunately for me that obviously didn't work out as expected either. Also, I am limited to using it once per player (kind of obvious for balance reasons, it's also where I came up with my idea about Cthulu).

So anyway, essentially nothing has changed for me from my synopsis yesterday and over the past couple days. *To me the evidence from posts, attacks, and some clearing actions from others points to Jackal as the player most likely to be a wolf remaining with no one else particularly close in the running. *I'm hoping he's the last one because otherwise it's just going to be guesswork for me as to who the fifth wolf is. *Right now we're at either 6-1-1 or 5-1-2 so if there are two wolves left, this is a critical day as I don't think we can win a 3-1-2 situation without getting lucky with Character of the Day interactions.

Melisandre attacks Keyser Soze

[JAG]

Sorry for the hideous formatting above (and this post is to pad Danny's count).

[Barkeep49]

What is the case against Keyser?

[The Jackal]

What is the case against Keyser?

JAG's gut, mostly. I haven't won any interactions and therefore haven't had any nuggets of information to lead to myself being more trusted. I don't have any particularly good votes on wolves, the ones on CF and NTN were 1) after a scan, and 2) an expected vote. Though we know JAG didn't vote for NTN either day, because he's convinced of me being bad. By making me into a target he's given the wolves no reason to take me out.

I still maintain one of the three people who've used an action to clear a villager or kill a wolf is where a wolf is hiding, and I guess it's possible there's one in JAG too. Our vote histories are pretty similar, JAG has just used an ability to move an attack, whereas my ability only relates to myself. Though I haven't used it yet, I was hoping that'd be a point in my favor - but there's really no way to check I'm telling the truth there.

[The Jackal]

But I'll let him tell you in his own words for the umpteenth time.

[JAG]

1. Worse voting record than the remaining people (attacked DT 3 times, mckerney once (though changed it to Schmidty later), Schmidty twice, and me (though you don't know it). Only good votes were the dog piles on CF and ntn. I'm not counting myself in that though my record will probably stand on his alliegence.

2. Has not cleared anyone nor been cleared by anyone.

3. Has been very passive and risk-adverse in his play, usually only going along with other people's opinions instead of trying to carve out something for himself, e.g. dubb as he did with Tyrith, EF as he did with ntn, Autumn when he went after EF (admittedly wrongly).

[The Jackal]

1) JAG also attacked DT 3 times, and only attacked CF as far as wolves go. Otherwise has been on me.

2) Neither have you.

3) I was basically leading the voting against DT and have multiple times, as you've pointed out, voted for and suggested voting for the hulk. Both of those times I was wrong, but you're wrong about me too. I may have been "going along" the first couple of days when I was getting a hold on the game, but I've been fairly opinionated since then.

So I'm not sure how any of this gives any credence to your argument aside from it's a gut feeling. At the end of the day you have no facts, just an idea. And that's fine.

[The Jackal]

Just a bizarre pigeon holing here. I'm not going to tell people to go against their gut, but you've literally not considered voting for anyone else since Tyrith died, even when we needed to get NTN dow. And you keep saying you'll think about others once I die, but your refusal to consider that I might be a villager is reaching epic proportions.

[Zinto]

Well we are at the point where no one has any concrete evidence to be used and we need to nail a wolf. That is why it is not a bad idea to follow Jag's gut on who maybe a wolf.

[Zinto]

I hate going on only Jag though so I am going to look back at things. There is a chance that he is a wolf and following him like I did yesterday could be bad news.

[The Jackal]

Well we are at the point where no one has any concrete evidence to be used and we need to nail a wolf. That is why it is not a bad idea to follow Jag's gut on who maybe a wolf.

It'd be one thing if he was a proven villager, but he isn't. He hasn't been scanned or anything. He's just known to be a strong villager, but.. he's a strong wolf too.

[Autumn]

We're coming for you

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2633/4078505769_53bd14d5ff_o.jpg

[Zinto]

Also I am not against voting for one of the other people who cleared someone. I know I am a wolf so one of the other two would be people I am going to go back and look at.

[Zinto]

Oops I mean I am NOT a wolf :)

[The Jackal]

I know I am a wolf.

:D

[JAG]

But I'll let him tell you in his own words for the umpteenth time.

I'm sick of it too. I'm getting a bit tired of it being characterized as only my gut from you the past couple days as well. There's better objective evidence that you're a wolf than the others too as well, it's not only gut. I also don't like the implication that there's something wrong with having an idea that's based on something that can't easily be quantified. I don't know how to explain that I think people like Zinto are playing what I've seen as their usual villager game whereas I don't think you are.

Anyway, wolf or villager I'm sure you're equally sick of me and you have a right to be, in your position I would be and have been of the other party when I was on the other side. But unless someone can make a really convincing case, I don't think I can change my mind that you're the best possibility as a wolf.

[Barkeep49]

Just playing out the numbers...

7 players left. I suspect 1 wolf. If 6-1 we've got a fair amount of leeway. We could kill 2 people incorrectly and still be able to win.

If it's 5-2 we've only got 1 day of leeway left.

[The Jackal]

I'm sick of it too. I'm getting a bit tired of it being characterized as only my gut from you the past couple days as well. There's better objective evidence that you're a wolf than the others too as well, it's not only gut. I also don't like the implication that there's something wrong with having an idea that's based on something that can't easily be quantified. I don't know how to explain that I think people like Zinto are playing what I've seen as their usual villager game whereas I don't think you are.

Anyway, wolf or villager I'm sure you're equally sick of me and you have a right to be, in your position I would be and have been of the other party when I was on the other side. But unless someone can make a really convincing case, I don't think I can change my mind that you're the best possibility as a wolf.

I know you have laid out some things which support what was at first a gut feeling. I'm upset I haven't had a chance to use an interaction or be scanned myself, but such is the way things have fallen. But really it's up to other people to decide. I'm willing to take a shot at someone who's used an action to clear/kill someone, but we may have to deal with a showdown between us first.

KEYSER ATTACKS MELISANDRE

[JAG]

1) JAG also attacked DT 3 times, and only attacked CF as far as wolves go. Otherwise has been on me.

2) Neither have you.

3) I was basically leading the voting against DT and have multiple times, as you've pointed out, voted for and suggested voting for the hulk. Both of those times I was wrong, but you're wrong about me too. I may have been "going along" the first couple of days when I was getting a hold on the game, but I've been fairly opinionated since then.

So I'm not sure how any of this gives any credence to your argument aside from it's a gut feeling. At the end of the day you have no facts, just an idea. And that's fine.

1. Technically it was TMIMITW for a couple days, but still a villager. As I said, my record would stand on your allegiance. I find it curious you wouldn't view me in the same light with my voting record yet you took pains to say I was a more likely villager the first couple days of my crusade (probably due to gut ironically)

2. BK, probably the most trusted player left, confirmed I moved a wolf attack off Autumn. It's not rock solid, but it's better than nothing.

3. You may have attacked Schmidty first, but only after it had been under discussion by a number of players. I'll take your word on DT as I don't want to go back and dig that up though. You can take it as a compliment on your villager play that I just expect more from you after a few days to get into the game and don't feel like you've done what I would've expected.

[Barkeep49]

Looking at the players left:

DV (Cthulu) - Assumed Neutral Character; seemingly impervious to attacks

Barkeep (Athena) - Cleared by Zinto; dubb (known villager) stated no night action performed prior to D3

Zinto (Dwight) - Cleared Barkeep

Chubby - Had character which killed a wolf character

Jackal - No known actions

JAG - Directed attack against wolf; Has ability to switch someones attacks

Mau - ???

Can someone help me out with why mau is thought to be good?

[The Jackal]

1) That's right, I think you only attacked DT twice.

2) Yes, that is at least a point of info in your favor, which I cannot claim to have.

3) Not sure what I can say here. I usually base my later game voting on vote record, which this game doesn't have a whole lot of because of the mechanics of it. My only real theory at this point is the one I've mentioned that I'm positive a wolf would use an opportunity to give themself a bit of trust. Aside from that I really don't know.. and I've been forced into going into self-defense mode the past couple of days. I tried to ignore it at first but it's hard to now. :)

[The Jackal]

Chubby also scanned Lathum clear if I recall correctly, BK.

Mau used an interaction ability to finish off Tyrith the night that he somehow avoided being lynched.

[Barkeep49]

Chubby also scanned Lathum clear if I recall correctly, BK.

Mau used an interaction ability to finish off Tyrith the night that he somehow avoided being lynched.
Ok Thanks.

Given all that I think Chubby is the one who is hiding in plain sight. Killing off the weakest of a wolf's character doesn't deserve much trust at this point in the game. If Chubby is a wolf and he were to have been taken out first we could be hearing this same argument in defense of Crimson (whose posts I admit to missing). A wolf can always clear a player, especially when they quickly kill that player. I've not felt great about Chubby this whole game and the interplay between Jackal/JAG just feels villager-villager to me. The points that clear Chubby at this point in this game just don't hold water.

Athena attacks Chubby

[Zinto]

Well it looks like I was not able to get a second look at my fake slip up. Since it probably will be a Jag vs jackal showdown I might as well tell you guys what I have been thinking.

I won Gandalf and if I was night killed last night or lynched today I would come back to life with more attack power. I am not sure how to try and get people to vote for me other then acting crazy today but I do not want to take away from the discussion since we are getting close to end game.

[Zinto]

So if the village would think it was worth getting me more attack power I would be all for it but I thought about it more and don't know if it is worth it. I was hoping I would be night killed but there is still that doubt in too many people that I am wolf plus it would be Barkeep over me.

[JAG]

BK, you have to pick a character, not Chubby himself.

Kudos Danny for coming up with that Gandalf power, that's cool. I dont think it's worth it to kill him for that benefit though.

[The Jackal]

That is an interesting ability, Zinto. I don't know if it would be worth it at this point in the game, because that basically gives the wolves a free kill if we don't actually lynch someone. Plus, even though I tend to think you're probably a villager, we can't exactly trust you 100% on this. I wonder if it would reveal your allegiance upon death.

[mauchow]

mal and Jayne attack Dwight schrute

I think I would be on board with zinto gaining more power as it wouldn't kill him today. We could very well use this power over the next few days. I am Hoping that a villager wins interaction for bodyguard to protect zinto tonight.

If we coordinate this to use the right amount of AP on Dwight then we still may be able to take out who we agree to take out between jag and jackal.

My AP is a total of two between my characters.

[mauchow]

I would be surprised if we couldn't take out one of the two in addition to getting the extra power for zinto by killing him.

[mauchow]

if we want it to work We definitely cannot spread our attacks out as BK has done.

If you aren't on board then that's fine then we new to scratch the idea completely but it will work if we do it right.

[JAG]

Doesn't make sense Mau. It would be like voting No Lynch today, so that Zinto can get an extra vote or two in probably no more than two days. And if he gets killed, we lose all benefit of doing that. Earlier in the game or under other circumstances (if he were injured) I could see doing it, but not now.

[mauchow]

To find out if it is realistic we need to know Dwight's HP. I'm not going to back away from this until we for sure say its not mathematically possible. My AP is two and we'd prolly need at least a strong attacker on him too and that may be it.

We just need everyone involved in this to make sure it works. If cthulu doesn't vote then we are screwed most likely.

I don't think we should be so quick to rule it out.

[mauchow]

That's all I'm sayin'.

[mauchow]

Keyser is probably not at full power right now with your attack and you definitely aren't. So I think its doable to kill jackal and zinto in this day. Like I said it may help to have cthilu committed. Iirc didn't dv say that cthulus AP sucks?

[Zinto]

I have 10 Hp and 0 Defense so I am not sure what everyone's attack power is but it maybe not possible.

[mauchow]

Cthulu is a minimum of 3 AP for killing Zoe who has 3 HP and no defense.

[JAG]

I don't think he said either way about his AP. I guess I'm just saying we need to be sure we get lunches in, and setting up our next one is probably not a bad idea either in case it's needed (if we have the attacks to do it). Even without knowing Zinto's hps, my guess is we'd have to spend more in attacks to kill him off than his bonus to attack would yield us. I think we're a lot better off trying to attack wolves.

Chubby had a D3 or 4 vote on Nelson also, although Nelson was protected that day and Thursday had an attack on him also, so not sure how to score that vote. I haven't played with him as wolf so I don't know how he prefers to play as one. Not to bring up my gut again, but I've gotten a decent villager vibe from him. I think I would score BK and Zinto as more trustworthy than Chubby and Mau, but I don't feel good about either Chubby or Mau as wolves.

[JAG]

Lunches = lynches. Guess I'm hungry.

[mauchow]

Obviously jag and jackal wont be disclosing their AP.

We'd need a Max of five more AP on Dwight and then the rest can go jackal/jag.

[Danny]

As of 1660

Keyser: Melisandre
Melisandre: Keyser
Dwight: Mal, Jayne

Barkeep's vote is invalid

[Barkeep49]

BK, you have to pick a character, not Chubby himself.

Kudos Danny for coming up with that Gandalf power, that's cool. I dont think it's worth it to kill him for that benefit though.

Thanks.

Athena attacks Oscar the Grouch

[Barkeep49]

I've been wondering why Zinto has been so willing to be killed to prove his scan on me. I thought he was just incredibly selfless. Knowing otherwise actually comforts me a little.

That said I don't see benefit in exercising that ability.

[mauchow]

That leaves chubby zinto BK to divide their attacks if dv is on Dwight.

If Athena is five then we could still get chubby and Dwight on jag jackal with each of them attacking each other. Jag is more likely to die having been attacked more yesterday is my assumption but.. we could kill him to at least get one kill. My gut says we should try killing jackal first but if we guarantee a kill w jag but not jackal.

I'm not sure what we should do.

[Barkeep49]

That leaves chubby zinto BK to divide their attacks if dv is on Dwight.

If Athena is five then we could still get chubby and Dwight on jag jackal with each of them attacking each other. Jag is more likely to die having been attacked more yesterday is my assumption but.. we could kill him to at least get one kill. My gut says we should try killing jackal first but if we guarantee a kill w jag but not jackal.

I'm not sure what we should do.
I don't understand this post.

[mauchow]

Sorry. On phone. I will touch it up later if need be. I don't think we'll have manpower to pull of killing zinto and jag/jackal. It'd be close..

[Zinto]

I've been wondering why Zinto has been so willing to be killed to prove his scan on me. I thought he was just incredibly selfless. Knowing otherwise actually comforts me a little.

That said I don't see benefit in exercising that ability.


I wish the case was the case any day but today since I only have had the ability for last night and today. I am not eager to be killed but if someone brings you up as candidate it would make not sense not to kill me first.

[Zinto]

Yeah I am thinking it is not worth it unless we just want to whittle down another villager through a night kill making it easier to identify a wolf. If there are two wolves though we are putting our selves into a bad situation by in essence voting no lynch.

[mauchow]

Dwight has 10 HP. If we could get an exact sum to attack him.

Melisandre and soze will probably not reveal their HP. Melisandre and keyser soze Attack each other.

That leaves zinto Mau BK chubby and dv to coordinate attacks to equal exactly 10 on Dwight and rest on melisandre or soze.

Better BK?

[JAG]

I still don't understand why you'd rather spend the attacks on Zinto than your best guess(es) for wolves. Let's say Zinto gains 2 AP and we have two more days of voting. You're trading 10 hps worth of damage for 4 hps of damage.

[JAG]

And that's assuming he lives long enough to make use of it.

[Zinto]

I do not understand the kill of Eagle. He was in the group with Jackal and Jag having not done anything to really prove they where a villager. It makes me wonder why Barkeep has not been killed and makes me think that Mau or Chubby maybe the last wolf.(or me if you think I am a wolf).

[Zinto]

Keeping Barkeep alive keeps doubts on if we are both wolves while it is not necessary since there would still be doubts.

Killing Eagle knocks only Jag and Jackal in the group of people who have not cleared anyone or killed a wolf. Leaving two others in the group of people who have cleared someone.

[Zinto]

I am not sure how Jackal can vote for Jag since he has said numerous times that he does not think he is a wolf. Also it would make no sense to take an attack off Autumn since Autumn is not a wolf. I honestly doubt that Jag is a wolf.

[The Jackal]

I am not sure how Jackal can vote for Jag since he has said numerous times that he does not think he is a wolf. Also it would make no sense to take an attack off Autumn since Autumn is not a wolf. I honestly doubt that Jag is a wolf.

I said I was leaning towards thinking he was a villager, and hoping he'd come around on me, but the tunnel vision has gotten me thinking otherwise.

[Zinto]

I said I was leaning towards thinking he was a villager, and hoping he'd come around on me, but the tunnel vision has gotten me thinking otherwise.


If there is only one wolf Jag's move to focus only on you would be a pretty poor one. If you come back a villager he looks terrible and will more then likely be lynched tomorrow so I think his tunnel vision if you are a villager is more likely to be a misguided villager then a wolf.

If there are two wolves though all bets are off.

[The Jackal]

Well see that's why I was thinking he was a villager, you don't usually see tunnel vision from wolves. I guess if the rest of the village is going to be avoiding us today I can move my vote, but when someone's voted for you 3 days in a row and won't even consider other possibilities even when they are presumed wolves, it gets in your head.

[mauchow]

Yeah I am thinking it is not worth it unless we just want to whittle down another villager through a night kill making it easier to identify a wolf. If there are two wolves though we are putting our selves into a bad situation by in essence voting no lynch.

If melisandre or soze didn't die with you tonight there would probably be two deaths tomorrow.

Numbers wise where does that leave us?

At worst we are 5-2 right now. If we don't get a kill tonight that's 4-2 assuming a night kill.

Tomorrow is then highly likely to have 2 lynches. Lets assume we hit one wolf out of two. 3-1. Then a nk makes it 2-1.

Vs killing one today.

5-2. We hit a wolf and a nk makes it 4-1. No wolf hit and nk makes it 2-1. Essentially Wed be in same position either way. We aren't getting enough info from attack history because. its alrready known that there have been wolves attacking wolves.

So why not give a highly cleared player a shot at increasing our odds of killing a wolf? We need all the attack power we can get. If its the last day and its 2-1 and I'm alive we may be screwed regardless.

[The Jackal]

I'm not sure why you're considering Zinto a "highly cleared player". I'm not saying I think he's a wolf, but he wasn't scanned, he scanned someone else. There's still a chance both him and BK are wolves, a higher chance that just Zinto is a wolf. As I've said before it's a very low percentage chance, but I'd hesitate about this plan.

[Zinto]

Well see that's why I was thinking he was a villager, you don't usually see tunnel vision from wolves. I guess if the rest of the village is going to be avoiding us today I can move my vote, but when someone's voted for you 3 days in a row and won't even consider other possibilities even when they are presumed wolves, it gets in your head.


Completely understandable I am sure it has happened to all of us.

[Zinto]

I will be honest I am feeling pretty good about Mauboy right now. If he is a wolf I can not understand why he would want to give me extra attack power. Even if he was just doing so to gain trust night killing me tonight only clears BK completely and would not make much sense.

[mauchow]

Is there a number that goes along with the boost zinto? Or is it Unknown?

[The Jackal]

I'll have to think about the numbers you put forth though, Mau. Gonna require people like DV to show up and input, that's for sure.

[Zinto]

Is there a number that goes along with the boost zinto? Or is it Unknown?

It is unknown.

[Zinto]

It could be only a one point increase which would be useless to us so there is more risk then just the chance I could be a wolf.

[mauchow]

It has to be a reasonable amount boost. Lets say it was zinto myself and cthulu remaining.

If Dwight and mal and Jayne all combine for 5 AP and cthulu is 12 combined defnse and HP. It will be tough to kill him wout additional AP. We may need the boost. We'll also need interaction character to boost for us because cthulu wins in that scenario (if a wolf) with no help.

[Zinto]

More then likely I am going to vote for Chubby or Jackal and I am leaning towards Jackal. The reason why I am considering Chubby is that I am more confident in Mau being a villager then him.

[mauchow]

If jackal and jag want to put aside their differences today and make things easier for the village to kill off chubby and zinto today lets do it. I gotta think it would be easier to kill chubby and zinto over zinto and jag/jackal.

Maybe that should be the plan for today? And I'm with you zinto I'd rather attack jackal but I think the AP you may gain could be vital for us. And if u r nk'd then too bad for us but we also run the hope of getting another bodyguard shot today.

[JAG]

Well see that's why I was thinking he was a villager, you don't usually see tunnel vision from wolves. I guess if the rest of the village is going to be avoiding us today I can move my vote, but when someone's voted for you 3 days in a row and won't even consider other possibilities even when they are presumed wolves, it gets in your head.

That's a mischaracterization. I have considered other alternatives, I just don't think they are as likely to be a wolf as you are, as I've explained ad nauseum. After dubb posted about ntn, I called him a wolf, so not sure what you're talking about with the 'even when they're presumed wolf' line.

[Zinto]

I feel like Chubby is going to be our wolf. He has not been pretty UTR. I feel like he has not really been proactive in trying to figure anything out. He has pretty much coasted on his scan of Lathum through the whole game.

Dwight attacks Oscar the Grouch

[Zinto]

The only game that I have played in with Chubby(where he was not night killed night one) he was really active. Sure he could be really busy but it is too easy to use that as an excuse. This is starting to send red flags and I feel like he has not been much help in the last couple of days.

[Zinto]

I forgot I was going to point this out yesterday. It seems also like Chubby had the only character to have a traditional werewolf power. To me that seems kind of suspect.

[JAG]

He did attack wolves four of the first five or so days, I'm not sure that would be coasting. He also made a case for attacking me before EF and Mau tagged along just yesterday. I'm surprised you could accuse Chubby as being less proactive than Jackal, or think his attacking record is worse in comparison, but alright.

Mostlymug motivation is I don't want to do the same thing again tomorrow.

[JAG]

mug = my

[Zinto]

He did attack wolves four of the first five or so days, I'm not sure that would be coasting. He also made a case for attacking me before EF and Mau tagged along just yesterday. I'm surprised you could accuse Chubby as being less proactive than Jackal, or think his attacking record is worse in comparison, but alright.

Mostlymug motivation is I don't want to do the same thing again tomorrow.


I never said that Chubby is being less proactive then Jackal just that it seems that he has not been very proactive. Also I never said his attacking record is worse I actually did not go back and look at the voting history too closely. So of course the fact he attacked wolves four times makes him look better.

[mauchow]

I think the general consensus is that people would rather kill jackal over you right now jag. If we decide we want to give zinto the bonus by killing him and kill chubby today that doesn't sit well with you.

If jackal was killed today and the game isn't over then I think chubby and myself are likely to be on the block next. I know I'm not a wolf so I'm okay with killing him today and coming back to jackal tomorrow.. only if we go with the plan to kill zinto too. If not I'll probably just vote jackal.. maybe chubby. Not sure there 100%.

[mauchow]

I think the general consensus is that people would rather kill jackal over you right now jag. If we decide we want to give zinto the bonus by killing him and killing chubby and coming back to jackal tomorrow..does that sit well enough with you?

Fixed butchered sentence.

[Barkeep49]

I feel like Chubby is going to be our wolf. He has not been pretty UTR. I feel like he has not really been proactive in trying to figure anything out. He has pretty much coasted on his scan of Lathum through the whole game.

Dwight attacks Oscar the Grouch
Can I suggest you attack super grover instead?

[mauchow]

Mighty Athena can take on the cookie monster! Heh.

[Chubby]

just got home from work so give me a min to get my post together for who i'm voing for and why but since people are looking at me... i'll respond to that 1st.

I'm not a wolf so if you're looking to take out another villager go ahead and take me down. I went over this stuff yesterday but to recap:
- I scanned lathum good on N1 and cleared him
- I attacked crimsonfox and he attacked me before he was scanned
- i was on ntn for almost the whole time he was under conisderation including the last day were I: was the 1st to vote him, never moved despite other's trying to make a case to move, argued for people to stay on him.

as for Cookie Monster - I don't see how a character having a random attack is a "wolf power" as well as the fact that I volunteered that info. I was under no questioning about killing Dourmouse (who was a wolf by the way) when I offered up the reason because I had nothing to hide.

What has changed since yesterday? EF was NKd which I have no clue why he would be a target and Zinto brought up a power he can gain from being killed.

That's it. I'm still looking at the same tier I was looking at yesterday. Do I trust Zinto? Yeah. Do I trust him enough to grant him extra power? I'm not sure but it's irrelevant if DV isn't on board with it too since I think we need his attack.

[mauchow]

Ehhh. Oscar the grouch...

Post count!

[JAG]

Does it sit well with me Mau? No, not at all, as I said above I can't see how attacking Zinto for unknown gain when a wolf could NK him assuming he's good and gets a huge attack bonus is a better move than attacking the top 1-2 wolf candidates right now instead.

[Danny]

As of 1700

Keyser: Melisandre
Melisandre: Keyser
Dwight: Mal, Jayne
Oscar: Athena, Dwight

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Zinto
I think if you are going just by what has happened in the game you have:

DV-Most likely a neutral character

Jag, Jackal, NTN, Eagle, and Schmidty All have not been scanned and have not done anything to prove theirselves as villagers or wolves

Zinto, Mauboy, and Chubby-Have performed an action either clearing someone or do some action against the wolves

Autumn-Blocked for hoops and attacked by wolves

Barkeep-100% clear in my book since I soothseyed(I believe that is what it is called) him

This closely mimics my tiers that I have so it saves me some time from having to type everything out (tho it's not exact).

I don't think it's worth our time to vote DV and I think our last wolf is in the next tier (with ntn already being exposed and killed).

I brought this up yesterday and a little this morning (didn't want to get into it too much as it was still predeadline when I had to leave for work) but Jag is at the top of my list right now for what seems like to me, trying to stall ntn's death. He seems to have a lockon onto Jackal like he has information but he has admitted he doesn't.

This in no way means I have any confidence in Jackal, just that Jag's action ping me higher than Jackal and the other's in that tier.

Jag used the bomb on ntn at night but then wouldn't vote for him. He also would not budge even when it was clear the village thought the best course of action was to ensure ntn's death. If he had been on ntn then switched late to try and get a 2nd target, it would have pinged me a lot less than his actual actions did.


my $0.02

Super Grover 2.0 attacks Melisandre of Asshai
Oscar the Grouch attacks Melisandre of Asshai

this is by no means set in stone but he is at the top of my list with the information we have currently.

What has changed from yesterday besides being led astray from a good plan (we had yesterday)?

[Barkeep49]

I really don't think we should be wasting attacks on Zinto. I don't see any potential benefit outweighing the opportunity costs of having those attacks directed elsewhere.

[Chubby]

I really don't think we should be wasting attacks on Zinto. I don't see any potential benefit outweighing the opportunity costs of having those attacks directed elsewhere.

Agreed, as I also said above I think we would need DV to do it anyways which I haven't seen him post today.

[Zinto]

What has changed from yesterday besides being led astray from a good plan (we had yesterday)?


My tier post really where not my definite thought on where people should be placed more so it was a post to help DV know where people stood so he could make a quick decision on who he wanted to vote for without the bias of my thoughts. It doesn't even take into account voting record.

[mauchow]

Fair enough. I'll drop that idea.

mal and jayne unattack dwight
mal and Jayne attack keyser soze

[Zinto]

I am not one hundred percent on you Chubby and there is a decent chance I can be convinced to move my vote. Also like yesterday if the majority wants to go after a different candidate I will move my vote once again.

[Zinto]

Can I suggest you attack super grover instead?

Yep

Dwight unattacks Oscar
Dwight attacks Super Grover

[mauchow]

I don't know why I'm going with jag after being sure he was a wolf. I may have to look into this some more when I get home. But for now we'll leave as is.

[JAG]

Has anything changed from yesterday? You have confirmation that Scmidty is good, someone Jackal voted for twice. EF is dead, so he probably isn't deserving of suspicion anymore.

[Barkeep49]

Chubby:

To answer your question nothing has changed except the weight I'm willing to give to your attack on the Dormouse. That to me is the only concrete action which you deserve credit for. As we've talked about with Zinto and me, a wolf clearing a villager is an easy action. Especially when the wolves then take out that cleared player. I also think a wolf killing another wolf character, without killing the player, is a way to build trust early on. In a wolf attacks wolf scenario, no matter which player gets killed first, the attacker or the attackee, the other can claim that it shows his innocence as you do now. Yesterday I was willing to give you some credit when I thought there was a better alternative to attacking you. I don't see a better alternative in JAG/Jackal personally hence the reason I'm back onto you.

[Chubby]

I don't think there's much we can do about the following but I would like some opinions on it:

DV has 3 missed votes, 1 invalid vote and 3 attacks.

So far the only reasons against me seem to be "gut" feeling whereas other people with actual reasons against them seem to be getting a free pass, why?

[Barkeep49]

I don't think there's much we can do about the following but I would like some opinions on it:

DV has 3 missed votes, 1 invalid vote and 3 attacks.

So far the only reasons against me seem to be "gut" feeling whereas other people with actual reasons against them seem to be getting a free pass, why?
Because we tried attacking him for two days and he took no damage. He then claimed a neutral role. It seemed like a waste of attacks to continue to attack someone who takes no damage.

[mauchow]

With jag meaning with his plan.

[Zinto]

If we attack DV we can not hurt him. I really doubt he is a wolf since I do not think that Danny would unbalance the game in such a way, unless we also had a character like that on our side. It would be a waste to attack him again.

[Chubby]

Has anything changed from yesterday? You have confirmation that Scmidty is good, someone Jackal voted for twice. EF is dead, so he probably isn't deserving of suspicion anymore.

All of which implicates me how? That's where I'm having the problem seeing it as anything but a wolf play to changed the focus onto me or some reason.

[Chubby]

If we attack DV we can not hurt him. I really doubt he is a wolf since I do not think that Danny would unbalance the game in such a way, unless we also had a character like that on our side. It would be a waste to attack him again.

I'm not concerned with why people aren't voting him, I've said myself that's why I haven't and why we shouldn't. I'm curious as to why there has been almost no discussion (at least since early on) of his lack of votes

[JAG]

I don't think he's actually claimed a neutral role, but he's been attacked by villagers and presumably wolves (a special attack one time, Dracula?) and it seems like that's the niche he fills.

[Barkeep49]

I'm not concerned with why people aren't voting him, I've said myself that's why I haven't and why we shouldn't. I'm curious as to why there has been almost no discussion (at least since early on) of his lack of votes
What can we do about his lack of votes if we're not going to try and kill him?

[Zinto]

His lack of participation is concerning but he has been on and voted the last three days so I can only assume he will be on and be able to vote once again today.

[JAG]

All of which implicates me how? That's where I'm having the problem seeing it as anything but a wolf play to changed the focus onto me or some reason.

It doesn't really I wouldn't think, unless you attacked Schmidty yesterday (can't recall if you did or not) But then I'm not advocating a vote on you, unless it's runoff after being sure we have enough to eliminate Jackal. I'm feeling pretty confident he's all that's left with his trying to play the 'wolf cleared a villager' card, which if I die before him he would have to pursue anyway.

[Zinto]

I understand what Jag is saying about Jackal planting the seeds of how he would like to see the discussion go tomorrow but say we kill Jag today and see he is a villager I am 90% sure I would vote Jackal tomorrow or vice-versa.

[Chubby]

I understand what Jag is saying about Jackal planting the seeds of how he would like to see the discussion go tomorrow but say we kill Jag today and see he is a villager I am 90% sure I would vote Jackal tomorrow or vice-versa.

As much as I have said in the past I don't think it's an either/or kinda thing, I don't have an issue with this logic because I understand the argument. They are also the last 2 in my least trusted tier.

I am heading to an ice cream social with my wife and son but I'll be back a little later.

[JAG]

I understand what Jag is saying about Jackal planting the seeds of how he would like to see the discussion go tomorrow but say we kill Jag today and see he is a villager I am 90% sure I would vote Jackal tomorrow or vice-versa.

Think about that Zinto. If the wolf isn't Jackal, why hasn't the wolf pushed to kill him, knowing it would mean another villager in myself would likely go down tomorrow? Why did Jackal not want to come after me initially? Because it would put him in the situation you're describing.

[The Jackal]

Think about that Zinto. If the wolf isn't Jackal, why hasn't the wolf pushed to kill him, knowing it would mean another villager in myself would likely go down tomorrow? Why did Jackal not want to come after me initially? Because it would put him in the situation you're describing.

Or.. you are a wolf pushing to kill me. That doesn't mean you'd be the next lynch. Multiple people have said they think this might be villager-villager. I'm tired at this point, my death probably doesn't cost us the game at this point, so if you've convinced enough people to follow you, so be it.

[Zinto]

I am honestly confused on where I want to go. I am waiting on Mau to figure out if he wants to stay on Jackal and then hopefully we can get some input from DV one way or the other. If Mau stays on Jackal that is more then likely where I will end up also.

[JAG]

Or.. you are a wolf pushing to kill me.

Well, that's not an argument to sway me at least. :)

I know what you mean re: being tired of it. If you really are a villager I will offer profuse apologies for what it's worth and congratulate the wolf / wolves for a job well done.

[mauchow]

Well.. I'm not sure either. I can't imagine super Grover will have more than 5 HP so if we can find out how much AP cthulu has then maybe I can switch to Grover with if he can't cover it and ten you can switch to jackal.. I guess I'm assuming you have higher AP than my two.

[mauchow]

So I'm assuming Athena can cover grouch on her own. Probably only needs to be 3 HP since its not super grouch. 3 HP is what I got for each three.

[Zinto]

Yeah assuming I have more attack power then your characters is probably not correct. I only have one attack power.

[Zinto]

Which is part of the reason I really wanted that attack power boost since I am pretty weak.

[Chubby]

back from the ice cream social, YUM!

i thought i had voted earlier but I don't see it

Super Grover attacks Melisandre of Asshai
Oscar the Grouch attacks Melisandre of Asshai

If I was a wolf and the village was onto me yesterday, I'd be trying to change the conversation ASAP. I think that is what is going on here, there's been no revelations to change people's trust levels from yesterday so I see no reason to change.

[Zinto]

With Chubby's vote we are getting to the point where we maybe stretched to thin. We still have time but we are going to need some consolidation before the deadline or we aren't going to have a lynch once again.

[Chubby]

With Chubby's vote we are getting to the point where we maybe stretched to thin. We still have time but we are going to need some consolidation before the deadline or we aren't going to have a lynch once again.

Well I'm clearly not voting for myself :p

For the villagers out there, don't let the wolves cloud the argument, there must be a reason they're trying to change gears from yesterday. Yes, this is the same argument I used to say people should stay on ntn and not switch.

My $0.02

[Chubby]

and one last argument before dinner:

why, if I was really the last wolf and ntn was the next to last wolf would I jump and vote for ntn right away on the day he was killed, stay on him all day, and convince others to stay on him? I wouldn't have if I was a wolf, I would have at minimum let the day play out and see if there was a way to survive...

[Zinto]

Well I am willing to move off you for now Chubby. I do not agree with you that Jag is a better target then Jackal though so I am going to move on to him.

Unattack Grover
Attack Keyser

[mauchow]

mal and Jayne unattack keyser soze
mal and Jayne attack super grover

BK. Might I suggest having you attack super Grover if your AP is over three? Then zinto and I can switch to grouch. If Grover is more super than grouch (more than three HP) then Dwight and my two will not be able to kill him

[mauchow]

LOL nice timing.

[Danny]

As of 1740

Keyser: Melisandre, Dwight
Melisandre: Keyser, Super Grover, Oscar
Oscar: Athena
Grover: Mal, Jayne

[Barkeep49]

My attack is only 1. I am not very powerful in that regard.

[mauchow]

OI

[mauchow]

mal and Jayne unattack super grover
mal and Jayne attack keyser soze

Interesting to see Chubby and Jackal voting for JAG. Not sure wolves would be voting together in this situation as it would be too obvious... right?

[mauchow]

But I guess it's not obvious who should be killed - I'm acting under the impression that Jackal is indeed a wolf. And then maybe JAG is too and they're just bantering back and forth to generate trust while the other one dies.

[JAG]

Well I'm clearly not voting for myself :p

For the villagers out there, don't let the wolves cloud the argument, there must be a reason they're trying to change gears from yesterday. Yes, this is the same argument I used to say people should stay on ntn and not switch.

My $0.02

Are you suggesting BK is a wolf since he is the one who brought up your name today? Otherwise I don't understand your point as I've attacked Jackal the past few days, which is hardly changing gears.

[The Jackal]

Can I ask why you've decided on me after saying you felt JAG was a wolf a day or two ago, mau?

[Chubby]

Are you suggesting BK is a wolf since he is the one who brought up your name today? Otherwise I don't understand your point as I've attacked Jackal the past few days, which is hardly changing gears.

I'm not suggesting anyone in particular is a wolf besides you based on your actions, which yes, may have been the actions of an over-zealous villager but make you more suspicious of the two of you and jackal (who are the last ones left in my lowest tier of trust).

I think the conversation was steered directly or indirectly away from yesterday's conversation. I doubt you would want the focus to remain on you, would you?

[Zinto]

Chubby I would not say that Jag tried to move the conversation away from him. After the deadline he said he was going to go after Jackal until one of them died. He also was against me voting for you today.

[Chubby]

Chubby I would not say that Jag tried to move the conversation away from him. After the deadline he said he was going to go after Jackal until one of them died. He also was against me voting for you today.

I wouldn't and didn't say that either.

However, if I was in jag's shoes and other people were turning the focus away from me and yesterday do you think I'd be saying anything to get them back on point? He voted jackal and won't change, no matter what anyone says he isn't going to change his vote. Even when most people feel they have a wolf in their sites and its best to be unitied to ensure the kill (ntn) he still won't switch. That pings me in a huge way. We all have gut feelings but I'm going to act in the best interest of the village and not my gut.