WW CLVI - Clue: Master Detective - GAME OVER! MURDERERS WIN! (Post 1817)

[Lathum]

deadline?

[Lathum]

did I miss something?

Am I being punked?

[Coffee Warlord]

I don't get in till after 7. I just wanted everything ready for my by the time I DO get in. Processing now.

[Lathum]

It is just weird, usually there are people hanging around waiting for the results. Very strange.

[Coffee Warlord]

This is gonna take awhile.

[DQ_BOY1000]

I am going to drive into work I will be around after that.

[Lathum]

haha, not surprised things are gonna take a while

[Coffee Warlord]

MURDER!

MURDER MOST FOUL!

Two bodies have been found this morning! Who can they be?

[Coffee Warlord]

As dawn approaches, you hear a scream, and a gunshot!

The guest throw on their robes, many who look quite tired, as if they've been up all night, and search the house. It is not hard to find.

Lying face down in the hallway with their throat cut is Prof...no, wait! That's not Professor Plum, though it certainly looks like him! Careful examination shows it is actually Monsieur Brunette!

Darth Vilus was Monsiuer Brunette - He could disguise himself as any other player and perform their action.

But wait...you heard a gunshot last night! You continue to search, and find a second victim! It's The Cop! He has a single shot to the forehead, and is very, very dead.

Chief Rum was The Cop. He could determine whether or not a person took a night action.

Day 2 has begun.

[Coffee Warlord]

ALSO!

Near the dawn, you hear chanting from another room. It seems that Madame Rose has conducted some form of Seance. It seems The Cook has been called back, to answer a single question.

"If you had a vote today, who would you vote for, and why?"

An eerie voice first asks if anyone wants leftover monkeys brains, then answers...

Chubby. He tried to call attention to everyone to watch how I would react to being in the lead playing off everyone knowing my actions in the last game. Personally I think he is a killer so I would vote for him. Oh wait, that's why I had voted for him! Also he voted for a revealed seer in the last minute when the game was pretty much over. Why the hell would you vote for a seer unless you were a wolf?

[PackerFanatic]

Geez, DV gets in the house and immediately gets whacked. Poor dude...

[hoopsguy]

Anyone want to take a stab at the differences in murder types here?
As in, murderers kill one way and other roles kill another?

Fontsian, any feedback to offer in terms of the Big 6 role and how these results align with what you have in your role PM?

[Danny]

Someone took a night action against me, my vote does not count today

[hoopsguy]

Darth is kind of an interesting choice. Autumn and I both show up in the evening along with Darth, but we're both here and Darth bites it?

If the Big 6 were hunting for their informants, they would have had no reason to hit Darth since he was pretty clearly an "other extra" by virtue of not being at the house to start.

[Coffee Warlord]

All result PMs should have gone out now. If anyone thinks they have not received information, please PM me.

[Chubby]

Trust me, if I was a murderer I wouldn't be flipflopping on day 1 after I was safe from being lynched. Why draw more attention to myself?

I wonder how everyone elses night went? Mine was not as productive as I had hoped.

[PackerFanatic]

Chief votes...

317 - Chief Rum votes JAG (murray 4, britrock88 4, Chubby 3, JAG 3, Zinto 1, Chief Rum 1, path12 1)
364 - Chief Rum unvotes JAG, votes britrock88 (britrock88 6, Chubby 5, murray 4, JAG 2, Chief Rum 2, path12 1)

DV votes...
292 - Darth Vilus votes britrock88 (murray 4, britrock88 4, Chubby 3, JAG 1, Zinto 1, Chief Rum 1, path12 1)

[PackerFanatic]

Darth is kind of an interesting choice. Autumn and I both show up in the evening along with Darth, but we're both here and Darth bites it?

If the Big 6 were hunting for their informants, they would have had no reason to hit Darth since he was pretty clearly an "other extra" by virtue of not being at the house to start.

Given that, DV is probably more likely murderer victim, but given CR's outspokenness, I could see him being a murderer victim too.

[Autumn]

Interesting if one of the Big Six took their shot. Quite a gamble on the first night. I wonder if the Murderers share a kill, or each get their own.

[Coffee Warlord]

The following people have NOT arrived at the mansion yet, as of Day 2. They cannot be lynched yet, but they can vote and talk. They also cannot be targeted for night actions until I announce they have arrived.

- KatyLied
- bhlloy
- mauchow
- DaddyTorgo
- Saldana
- Danny

[PackerFanatic]

It'd be a pretty lucky shot, but Miss Scarlet would have been the one that could kill CR (if all the Big Six have the same type of condition as we learned from font yesterday)

[Danny]

Addendum, my vote does count today.

[Chubby]

At the bank for work so I won't be able to post til afternoon after this.

Oh, and vote autumn because why not?

[hoopsguy]

Bummer, had a question that I wanted to ask Chief Rum yesterday that I did not get around to ...

I'll throw this one out to the other remaining wolves from last game, I guess. Chief had suggested to me, by PM and I think later in the thread, that he thought the more talkative bulletsponge last game was somewhat of a wolf tell. Did you get a similar sense from his play on Day 1?

My takeaway from it was that he was enjoying the theme of last game. But he seemed more active again yesterday. Far be it for me to encourage someone to post less (I want all quiet players to talk more in thread, it makes it more fun) but I did want to get a sense of whether others shared CR's thought on bulletsponge as active poster in game being a wolf indicator?

[hoopsguy]

Final early morning thoughts ... snow day here, so I anticipate being in thread a decent amount. I'm in no hurry to vote, as I'm hoping our many roled players might have some data they can share that could help with the voting.

[PackerFanatic]

I don't have any thoughts about it being an indicator, but he did end up voting for CR yesterday, for whatever that is worth.

[Chubby]

As far as bullet goes, I think it was just cause he wanted revenge on me. I didn't take it as any sort of tell.

[Autumn]

Yeah, DV doesn't make sense as a choice for a Big 6, so I presume the Murderer(s) did him in. Knowing he wasn't a Big 6 or an informer, they will want to weed out the extra roles and give the others time to convert themselves. That's pretty smart. I'm not surprised I wasn't killed, since I had about six people vow to vote me yesterday.

One killed with a knife, one killed with a gun. I don't know if this will end up mattering, but it may point us to certain characters in the end.

[Danny]

No wrench candlestick yet

[Autumn]

Bummer, had a question that I wanted to ask Chief Rum yesterday that I did not get around to ...

I'll throw this one out to the other remaining wolves from last game, I guess. Chief had suggested to me, by PM and I think later in the thread, that he thought the more talkative bulletsponge last game was somewhat of a wolf tell. Did you get a similar sense from his play on Day 1?

My takeaway from it was that he was enjoying the theme of last game. But he seemed more active again yesterday. Far be it for me to encourage someone to post less (I want all quiet players to talk more in thread, it makes it more fun) but I did want to get a sense of whether others shared CR's thought on bulletsponge as active poster in game being a wolf indicator?

bulletsponge definitely pinged me yesterday, so I'm interested that you noticed this too. Not only being talkative, but he made a couple comments that kind of threw suspicion around at others. I'll look up what it was. I was going to change my vote to him last night actually but decided to just wait and see if he pinged me more.

[Danny]

Someone tried to bribe me tonigjt to make my vote no count but it didn't work because I am not at the house yet.

[Chubby]

Back to work (and read only)

[Coffee Warlord]

http://www.cluedofan.com/movie/copphone.jpg

"I have a feeling that I'm in danger...."

[Coffee Warlord]

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsN/26122-3586.jpg

"...wait, the pig died? DINNER IN AN HOUR!"

[Autumn]

huh? why would you "hope to kill someone" if your a villager and not a wolf? this is weird

There were a couple posts like this. Doesn't look that bad looking back on it (this is in response to Fontisian's explanation of her ability) but it has that sort of wolf "gosh, shucks, I don't understand these rules but that sure doesn't sound good" thing that a lot of wolves do, hoping it will catch fire and they won't really be attached to it.

[bhlloy]

Well shit sorry guys, I thought because I wasn't in the house I couldn't vote, then I see britrocks summary and I'm the only one who didn't. Yesterday was crazy, I'll try and contribute some more today.

[Autumn]

Someone tried to bribe me tonigjt to make my vote no count but it didn't work because I am not at the house yet.

Well, I guess we definitely have evidence some people are not paying attention.

I wonder why someone would bother using that N1 anyway, assuming they can't do it every day.

[Lathum]

OK, gonna put this out there as I think it gives a decent bit of info to the village.

The theory about the big 6 having to kill their informant, at least in my case, is accurate. I am Mrs. Peacock, and if I night killed the cook I would turn wolf.

My plan was to vote Murray5y and see if he would be lynched, then reveal this info. I will be very up front in saying had Murray5y not been lynched I was going to kill him and become a wolf.

There is one thing that doesn't add up. I basically have to perform an action that searches for my informant. If I find them I kill them and become a wolf. I was able to perform this action every night prior to the cook being killed.

My power basically consists of "pick a player to kill and hope they meet the requirements." If they don't, nothing happens and my one-shot ability is wasted. Maybe CW will tell me some more info later, but for now that's all I know.

now fontisian states she has a one time ability to kill a player, and if that player is her informant she becomes a wolf. This is very different from the way I could have become a wolf.

I wanted to get this out there because now that the cook is dead I am basically a vanilla villager.

[PackerFanatic]

So basically your role states that you do a search every time. If you find your informant, you kill them - otherwise nothing happens. Correct?

[saldana]

OK, gonna put this out there as I think it gives a decent bit of info to the village.

The theory about the big 6 having to kill their informant, at least in my case, is accurate. I am Mrs. Peacock, and if I night killed the cook I would turn wolf.

My plan was to vote Murray5y and see if he would be lynched, then reveal this info. I will be very up front in saying had Murray5y not been lynched I was going to kill him and become a wolf.

There is one thing that doesn't add up. I basically have to perform an action that searches for my informant. If I find them I kill them and become a wolf. I was able to perform this action every night prior to the cook being killed.

now fontisian states she has a one time ability to kill a player, and if that player is her informant she becomes a wolf. This is very different from the way I could have become a wolf.

I wanted to get this out there because now that the cook is dead I am basically a vanilla villager.

how did you know so quickly that Murray5y was the cook?

[DQ_BOY1000]

So this could have happened last night...

One of the Big 6 killed their informant... CR... and we now have another Murderer in our midst. The cop in the movie is on Scarlet's payroll and he is killed with the led pipe.

[Autumn]

OK, gonna put this out there as I think it gives a decent bit of info to the village.

The theory about the big 6 having to kill their informant, at least in my case, is accurate. I am Mrs. Peacock, and if I night killed the cook I would turn wolf.

My plan was to vote Murray5y and see if he would be lynched, then reveal this info. I will be very up front in saying had Murray5y not been lynched I was going to kill him and become a wolf.

There is one thing that doesn't add up. I basically have to perform an action that searches for my informant. If I find them I kill them and become a wolf. I was able to perform this action every night prior to the cook being killed.



now fontisian states she has a one time ability to kill a player, and if that player is her informant she becomes a wolf. This is very different from the way I could have become a wolf.

I wanted to get this out there because now that the cook is dead I am basically a vanilla villager.

This is interesting. This is how I imagined hte rules would work for the Big Six. But then again, there's no reason for Fontisian to make this up and reveal under no pressure, especially if she's not really a Big Six and knows she'd get outed. Unless she's an Informer and figured this would hide her, but that's a rather convoluted move for D1.

I wouldn't put it past CW to have different rules for the different roles. But I also wouldn't put it past Lathum to be screwing with me somehow ;-)

[PackerFanatic]

how did you know so quickly that Murray5y was the cook?

He had came out and said he was (or at least led us to believe so with his posts about the menu and such)

[PackerFanatic]

For Saldana

I was told to present a menu for your characters at night… or else. I don’t feel like finding out what “else” means.

So here is what you can have for a late night snack tomorrow night.

Feel free to order at anytime. I fear that if no one orders anything he will not be pleased and I might find out what he meant way too soon.

1) 西米露
2) 豆腐花
3) 龜苓膏
4) 椰汁糕
5) 紅豆沙
6) 魚翅湯
7) 燕窩

[saldana]

He had came out and said he was (or at least led us to believe so with his posts about the menu and such)

thanks PF, i totally missed that post

[Autumn]

This seems like a method to if not create a Circle of Trust, at least corral our murderers. With Lathum revealing himself, he hopefully can get scanned by somebody. With the Cop gone, there's another Big Six who should be able to reveal. He will either be a wolf or safe from conversion. If he doesn't reveal, he's likely a wolf. If he does, he can get scanned and cleared.

Speaking of which, where's Britrock.

[Autumn]

I do wonder if there's some downside to the Big 6 revealing, if there might be other roles targeting them, but I don't have any evidence of that so far.

[Lathum]

how did you know so quickly that Murray5y was the cook?

he posted a menu. Wasn't hard to figure it out from there

[Lathum]

So basically your role states that you do a search every time. If you find your informant, you kill them - otherwise nothing happens. Correct?

more or less. I have one minor ability that I'm not going to mention

[PackerFanatic]

This seems like a method to if not create a Circle of Trust, at least corral our murderers. With Lathum revealing himself, he hopefully can get scanned by somebody. With the Cop gone, there's another Big Six who should be able to reveal. He will either be a wolf or safe from conversion. If he doesn't reveal, he's likely a wolf. If he does, he can get scanned and cleared.

Speaking of which, where's Britrock.

I would have to think that Miss Scarlet is a wolf at this point...it fits the explanation as to why The Cop bit it in the first place.

[PackerFanatic]

more or less. I have one minor ability that I'm not going to mention

Fair enough. It's at least different enough from font's explanation - not that that means font is lying, but it is different for sure.

[hoopsguy]

Hmm, I guess the way that I weigh Lathum's info is that fontsian might have been angle-shooting a bit with the Day 1 reveal.

I suspect there would be some symmetry between the "Big 6" roles and how they would go about hunting for their informants. If any other Big 6 wanted to chime in on this, be my guest.

Which, to some extent, begs the question of whether we want to eliminate Big 6 people who have their corresponding informants still out there - as a way to minimize the chances of having more murderers to deal with - or just go after the "original" murderers?

Finally, there is nothing that guarantees that Lathum did not start as a murderer, correct?

The Big Six
The Big Six, as noted above, are all fully capable of becoming a murderer at some point in the game.

[JAG]

OK, gonna put this out there as I think it gives a decent bit of info to the village.

The theory about the big 6 having to kill their informant, at least in my case, is accurate. I am Mrs. Peacock, and if I night killed the cook I would turn wolf.

My plan was to vote Murray5y and see if he would be lynched, then reveal this info. I will be very up front in saying had Murray5y not been lynched I was going to kill him and become a wolf.

There is one thing that doesn't add up. I basically have to perform an action that searches for my informant. If I find them I kill them and become a wolf. I was able to perform this action every night prior to the cook being killed.



now fontisian states she has a one time ability to kill a player, and if that player is her informant she becomes a wolf. This is very different from the way I could have become a wolf.

I wanted to get this out there because now that the cook is dead I am basically a vanilla villager.

Lathum, I'm not understanding what the difference is between how you could have become a wolf and how font is saying she could become a wolf. You're saying you could night kill the cook and become a wolf. Font is also claiming a night kill ability and if she hits a certain target, she would become a wolf.

[PackerFanatic]

Which, to some extent, begs the question of whether we want to eliminate Big 6 people who have their corresponding informants still out there - as a way to minimize the chances of having more murderers to deal with - or just go after the "original" murderers?

That was floated yesterday, too, and personally, I still think a viable option (which is why font is on my short list today)


Finally, there is nothing that guarantees that Lathum did not start as a murderer, correct?

Definitely true.

[PackerFanatic]

Lathum, I'm not understanding what the difference is between how you could have become a wolf and how font is saying she could become a wolf. You're saying you could night kill the cook and become a wolf. Font is also claiming a night kill ability and if she hits a certain target, she would become a wolf.

The difference being that Lathum is saying his ability is a search and if he happens to search his informant, he kills the informant. He can do this until his informant is dead, basically. Font said she gets a one-time kill - if she gets the informant, she becomes a wolf.

[Autumn]

Lathum, I'm not understanding what the difference is between how you could have become a wolf and how font is saying she could become a wolf. You're saying you could night kill the cook and become a wolf. Font is also claiming a night kill ability and if she hits a certain target, she would become a wolf.

The difference is Font said she didn't have any scan ability, she just had to luck out with her kill.

[Autumn]

I would have to think that Miss Scarlet is a wolf at this point...it fits the explanation as to why The Cop bit it in the first place.

I would imagine there's a host of people who haven't checked in yet today,s o I wouldn't be quite so bold.

[PackerFanatic]

Fair enough - but it makes the most sense in my mind. We know that DV couldn't have been killed by the Big Six (not for informant purposes at least)

[JAG]

I would have to think that Miss Scarlet is a wolf at this point...it fits the explanation as to why The Cop bit it in the first place.

I think that's probably true based on the role info from font and Lathum. So we can probably assume there's at least two wolves in the group of players currently at the house, Scarlet and whoever killed DV.

[britrock88]

So this could have happened last night...

One of the Big 6 killed their informant... CR... and we now have another Murderer in our midst. The cop in the movie is on Scarlet's payroll and he is killed with the led pipe.

I would have to think that Miss Scarlet is a wolf at this point...it fits the explanation as to why The Cop bit it in the first place.

These two pretty much state my theory on CR's NK. I'm not _convinced_ it's Miss Scarlett who is behind this, but I'd bet on it. What surprises me more than anything is that a Big Six player would have actually found their informant on N1 (though I suppose the odds of that happening are close to a coin flip).

[britrock88]

This seems like a method to if not create a Circle of Trust, at least corral our murderers. With Lathum revealing himself, he hopefully can get scanned by somebody. With the Cop gone, there's another Big Six who should be able to reveal. He will either be a wolf or safe from conversion. If he doesn't reveal, he's likely a wolf. If he does, he can get scanned and cleared.

Speaking of which, where's Britrock.

Hi. :) Thoughts to follow.

[Autumn]

But it's just as possible, and more likely, that someone tried to kill an Informer and missed, killing Chief. So they might be a "safe" Big 6 like Lathum instead. If by the end of the day nobody's fessed up to it, I would feel comfortable assuming that it was Miss Scarlet, and is now a Murderer, but at this point I don't see that we can assume that.

[Autumn]

Fair enough - but it makes the most sense in my mind. We know that DV couldn't have been killed by the Big Six (not for informant purposes at least)

Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong. Isn't it the case that the Big 6 can kill *anyone*, it's just they only succeed if they kill their INformer? Or have Font and Lathum implied that their kill won't work on others?

[PackerFanatic]

But it's just as possible, and more likely, that someone tried to kill an Informer and missed, killing Chief. So they might be a "safe" Big 6 like Lathum instead. If by the end of the day nobody's fessed up to it, I would feel comfortable assuming that it was Miss Scarlet, and is now a Murderer, but at this point I don't see that we can assume that.

True...if they have a Big Six role like Font suggested (as opposed to what Lathum suggested).

[PackerFanatic]

Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong. Isn't it the case that the Big 6 can kill *anyone*, it's just they only succeed if they kill their INformer? Or have Font and Lathum implied that their kill won't work on others?

Lathum said that his was a scan, not a kill. Font said her's was a one-time kill.

[Autumn]

True...if they have a Big Six role like Font suggested (as opposed to what Lathum suggested).

True, I suppose a Lathum-type Big 6 would have scanned first. So either there are Font-type Big 6 and they took a blind shot, or there's a Murderer, or another role that can kill for some other reason.

I also want to keep in mind that DV might have been killed by a Big 6 or other who just wasn't paying attention. Never assume everyone's on top of the game.

However, my guess is we have a crafty Murderer(s) who realized their best interest is to pick off the Extras.

[britrock88]

I'm bummed I didn't hear from others about suspicion in bulletsponge until morning, because he ended up as my #2 scan priority last night.

My thinking was that murrayyyyy revealed his informant role (whether people picked up on that or not) and was thus an easily known villager. As long as you guys believe me, I'm a villager, too. So the most popular votee with unknown murderer affiliation was Chubby. I went back through the vote analysis and looked for the latest move that was indicative of defending Chubby, and came up with ntndeacon.

Ntndeaceon scanned as a non-murderer. There is a caveat to this, though. Suppose ntndeacon was the character who we assume is Miss Scarlett -- the one who killed CR the cop. Because CW resolves night actions simultaneously, if I had the luck to scan a Big Six player AS they were killing their informant/converting, I would get a non-murderer result for a player who would become a murderer immediately thereafter. Bummer.

[britrock88]

Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong. Isn't it the case that the Big 6 can kill *anyone*, it's just they only succeed if they kill their INformer? Or have Font and Lathum implied that their kill won't work on others?

Fuller disclosure for the village's benefit. I am a Big Six character. I won't say which one because the caveat to my seer role is that if I scan my informant, I kill him/her and become a murderer.

[Autumn]

By your logic, Brit, shouldn't you have scanned Chubby?

[britrock88]

And Autumn, I think Big Six characters simply have a trigger to convert when they scan/kill/etc. their informant. Though I wonder about Mr. Green...

[PackerFanatic]

I also want to keep in mind that DV might have been killed by a Big 6 or other who just wasn't paying attention. Never assume everyone's on top of the game.


Very true - especially since someone did that with Danny. Or the murderers are just Fing with us :)

[britrock88]

By your logic, Brit, shouldn't you have scanned Chubby?

I like to think that we'd put him up for a vote again, kind of like what we did with DT a couple games ago.

[JAG]

The difference being that Lathum is saying his ability is a search and if he happens to search his informant, he kills the informant. He can do this until his informant is dead, basically. Font said she gets a one-time kill - if she gets the informant, she becomes a wolf.

The difference is Font said she didn't have any scan ability, she just had to luck out with her kill.

Yeah, I'm a bit slow this morning (shoveling for an hour and a half will do that to a guy). I don't know that it means for sure font is lying though. It's conceivable there are differences in the ways which the Big Six perform their conversion baed on which particular role they may have. The fact that both revealed the information with no pressure on them lends credence to what they're saying too.

[PackerFanatic]

I agree, JAG.

[Autumn]

Of note, I suppose, is that Mr. Green is the one Big 6 who doesn't seem to have an informer, so his role might work differently than the others. Not Font-style different, I wouldn't think, but possibly.

[Lathum]

The difference being that Lathum is saying his ability is a search and if he happens to search his informant, he kills the informant. He can do this until his informant is dead, basically. Font said she gets a one-time kill - if she gets the informant, she becomes a wolf.

this is correct

[Lathum]

Fuller disclosure for the village's benefit. I am a Big Six character. I won't say which one because the caveat to my seer role is that if I scan my informant, I kill him/her and become a murderer.

why shouldn't we lynch you toady in that case. We have no idea what the cut off is for you eing on our side and you yourself just told us we maybe can't trust your night one scan.

You sound like someone who may be a wolf trying to sound valuable but hedging your bets

[Lathum]

just to be clear. My ability amounts to a scan. If I hit on the cook I kill them and become a wolf. That is not all off the table for obvious reasons.

[britrock88]

why shouldn't we lynch you toady in that case. We have no idea what the cut off is for you eing on our side and you yourself just told us we maybe can't trust your night one scan.

You sound like someone who may be a wolf trying to sound valuable but hedging your bets

Lynching me today is dumb because it does the wolves' work for them. Lynching a known seer? Come on.

[britrock88]

just to be clear. My ability amounts to a scan. If I hit on the cook I kill them and become a wolf. That is not all off the table for obvious reasons.

I'll emend your quote to clarify my ability:

"just to be clear. My ability amounts to a scan. If I hit on the (unnamed living informant) I kill them and become a wolf."

So I'm a seer with a low, low probability of (accidental) conversion.

[Autumn]

It's not that low. You havea pretty good shot of hitting it tonight or tomorrow night. So you're pretty much guaranteed to become a wolf soon unless we happen to somehow kill the informer first.

Actually our best shot would be to have your Informer reveal, lynch them, and keep you around. Our next best shot is to lynch you.

[Chief Rum]

Madame Rose does another seance...

She brings into fuzzy view... Chief Rum, the Cop! And he's saying something!

"And so then I... wait, I'm dead? Sonofab... #$%@&!!!

Good luck village!"

[britrock88]

Actually our best shot would be to have your Informer reveal, lynch them, and keep you around. Our next best shot is to lynch you.

This is plausible, provided I can survive the night. I have no idea what the odds of that are.

It's not that low. You havea pretty good shot of hitting it tonight or tomorrow night. So you're pretty much guaranteed to become a wolf soon unless we happen to somehow kill the informer first.

The odds were 1/14 last night; they'll probably be about the same tonight (assuming a few more people are introduced into the game tonight, like last night). Not that high a probability.

[Autumn]

Well, if yo'ure doing your homework it's much better than that. And the wolves may not kill you, now that they know you're a possible conversion. It's a game of chicken, who's going to kill the seer!

[Autumn]

I suppose the Informers have a victory condition of outliving their counterparts, or else it would be wise for us to simply do some reveals and remove the chance of more murderers.

[Autumn]

Well, I suppose we have Brit in our targets. We can lynch him any day. It's possible, of course, that he killed Chief last night and is already bad, and faked his NTN scan. But as long as we take it with a grain of salt, it's good to have a possible seer around. If he's bad he's at least forced to come up with info to give us.

[Autumn]

That said, I'm going to go with Bulletsponge for the moment, just on intuition and just because he's one of the original house members. If we can kill Brit's Informer, for example, we can have a safe seer.

<b>VOTE BULLETSPONGE</b>

[DQ_BOY1000]

I am struggling to follow this right now. I am new to this so work with me... if someone wouldn't mind explaining what the heck is going on.

What I am most confused about is why bullet is a target and how he relates to Britrock. Or does he not?

AHHHHHHH!!!! I am so lost right now.

[bhlloy]

I'm a little confused about the Cop's death, I have to admit. Unless Scarlett started the game with knowledge about who he was, there's no way she could have found and killed him in one night, no?

There's no reason for that character to not come out and reveal if they are good, so we might find out soon enough. But I think it might be a coincidence that the cop was a NK and nothing to do with Scarlett, unless I'm missing something big.

[PackerFanatic]

He doesn't. He has pinged a few folks with how he has played this game compared to recent games.

[bhlloy]

Unless when you find someone you auto-kill them I guess. That makes a lot of sense. Still, unless CR tipped his hand that's a hell of a lucky shot on N1.

[PackerFanatic]

I'm a little confused about the Cop's death, I have to admit. Unless Scarlett started the game with knowledge about who he was, there's no way she could have found and killed him in one night, no?

There's no reason for that character to not come out and reveal if they are good, so we might find out soon enough. But I think it might be a coincidence that the cop was a NK and nothing to do with Scarlett, unless I'm missing something big.

Random, dumb luck is always a possibility too! And if it was Scarlet, no way she comes out now, because she is probably converted now.

[Autumn]

Well, if she had a kill like Fontisian and missed, she should come out and say so. Might have been someone other than Scarlett.

[Autumn]

I am struggling to follow this right now. I am new to this so work with me... if someone wouldn't mind explaining what the heck is going on.

What I am most confused about is why bullet is a target and how he relates to Britrock. Or does he not?

AHHHHHHH!!!! I am so lost right now.

It's a pretty crazy game to jump into.

Bullet is a target simply because someone has to. The way he is playing made me think maybe he's a wolf. But there's no evidence. There never is Day two.

[hoopsguy]

It's not that low. You havea pretty good shot of hitting it tonight or tomorrow night. So you're pretty much guaranteed to become a wolf soon unless we happen to somehow kill the informer first.

Actually our best shot would be to have your Informer reveal, lynch them, and keep you around. Our next best shot is to lynch you.

Hope that Informer is listening and ready to take one for the team :)

[Autumn]

I like to think that we'd put him up for a vote again, kind of like what we did with DT a couple games ago.

I must say, this doesn't really make sense once you're revealed. Yes, if you were hidden, then stay away from Chubby. but if you know he's likely going to be in the vote today, why wouldn't you want us to know if he's bad?

[bhlloy]

Random, dumb luck is always a possibility too! And if it was Scarlet, no way she comes out now, because she is probably converted now.

Yeah, I think if she doesn't come out, that's pretty damning. Unless anyone can say otherwise I can't see a reason not to.

[hoopsguy]

I'm a little confused about the Cop's death, I have to admit. Unless Scarlett started the game with knowledge about who he was, there's no way she could have found and killed him in one night, no?

There's no reason for that character to not come out and reveal if they are good, so we might find out soon enough. But I think it might be a coincidence that the cop was a NK and nothing to do with Scarlett, unless I'm missing something big.

I think the idea of Scarlett getting the NK on the cop is a fairly big assumption. Not impossible, but it sure seems like there are enough other possibilities that we don't need to run with this just yet.

And this is coming from someone who cannot be Scarlett, since I'm one of the extras that arrived late to the party.

[path12]

And Autumn, I think Big Six characters simply have a trigger to convert when they scan/kill/etc. their informant. Though I wonder about Mr. Green...

This could be the difference between fontisian and your and Lathum's abilities then? Since Mr. Green wasn't listed as having a particular enemy, maybe that is fontisian and you guys have more specific targets?

[Autumn]

But it sounds like Font has a specific target too, which is why that doesn't quite click for me.

Maybe Font can kill any of the informers, and so only gets one blind shot?

[hoopsguy]

So, mapping out some of the info we have so far. Please chime in if I'm missing anything.

Big 6: Lathum = Peacock, britrock and Fontsian also have B6 roles
Informants: dead Cop, dead Cook
Other Extras: dead Brunette

ntn = not starting murderer, per brit (N1)
not N1 murderers = KatyLied, bhlloy, mauchow, DT, Saldana, Danny (not at house yet)

Other Extras = KatyLied, hoopsguy, bhlloy, mauchow, DT, Autumn, Saldana, Danny

[path12]

I'm a little confused about the Cop's death, I have to admit. Unless Scarlett started the game with knowledge about who he was, there's no way she could have found and killed him in one night, no?

There's no reason for that character to not come out and reveal if they are good, so we might find out soon enough. But I think it might be a coincidence that the cop was a NK and nothing to do with Scarlett, unless I'm missing something big.

If, based on what Lathum and britrock88 have stated, the Big Six have a search ability of some sort at night for their adversary, Miss Scarlett could have lucked out and nailed the cop. About the same odds as a day 1 wolf vote I'd imagine, longshot but plausible.

With both Chief and Darth biting it last night the simplest explanation to my mind is that Miss Scarlett did indeed just hit the longshot and the wolves got Darth Vilius.

[bhlloy]

I'd love to go back through CR's posts and see if he tipped off that he might be a cop (unlikely) or someone with a significant role (more likely) but I don't have time at work. Maybe this evening if someone doesn't beat me to it. I think that's probably a key piece of information.

Also, why would britrock still be alive as the outed seer? Has anyone put any suggestions forward to that more interesting than a potential BG block?

[path12]

Though that bit with M. Brunette in makeup -- could HE have been doing a search and ran into Scarlett? I wonder if that would trigger a murder as well?

[Coffee Warlord]

1 - Autumn
1 - Bulletsponge

[bulletsponge]

bulletsponge definitely pinged me yesterday, so I'm interested that you noticed this too. Not only being talkative, but he made a couple comments that kind of threw suspicion around at others. I'll look up what it was. I was going to change my vote to him last night actually but decided to just wait and see if he pinged me more.

oh yea, i saw this last game. try to draw suspicion away from someone else by making them look at another. nice try.

[path12]

Also, why would britrock still be alive as the outed seer? Has anyone put any suggestions forward to that more interesting than a potential BG block?

I don't see how a BG paying attention could have not guarded britrock last night -- though it does seem that roles don't quite match up to traditional ones given some of the revelations yesterday so I could just be talking out my ass.

[Coffee Warlord]

broken image

[bulletsponge]

Vote Autumn

trying to get the mob after me, just like he did last game. the poor villagers fell for it several times too. saved a fellow wolf 2 or 3 times that way

[bhlloy]

With both Chief and Darth biting it last night the simplest explanation to my mind is that Miss Scarlett did indeed just hit the longshot and the wolves got Darth Vilius.

I think that in a regular WW game that would be the most likely explanation but CW has said this will be a bloodbath. Keeping a very open mind on this. If Scarlett hasn't revealed by tomorrow that will have me leaning towards that explanation.

[hoopsguy]

are you the cook? hmm better not kill you, who will make me a sandwich then?

Exhibit A on bulletsponge, immediately following the "chinese menu" post by murrayyyyy. Indicates that he is paying attention to roles to at least some extent, and that he is thinking about killing people.

This post is a stretch in a vacuum, but it is also how I start building post-analysis cases. Lets see what else I find ...

[bhlloy]

I don't see how a BG paying attention could have not guarded britrock last night -- though it does seem that roles don't quite match up to traditional ones given some of the revelations yesterday so I could just be talking out my ass.

I guess my one issue with that is that there were two kills last night. Seems unlikely that both were game mechanics and not wolf kills. But maybe they were. Maybe there are no wolf kills at all, just people trying to find the people they need to kill (although I can think of a couple reasons that is unlikely)

Again, keeping an open mind about the reveal but I'm a lot more skeptical than I would be in a regular game

[PackerFanatic]

Though that bit with M. Brunette in makeup -- could HE have been doing a search and ran into Scarlett? I wonder if that would trigger a murder as well?

Valid point here.

[hoopsguy]

Through the first 250 posts of the thread so far, and haven't seen anything from Chief that looks like a role-drop on his part.

Question that I've got for brit/Lathum - do your accounts for the Big 6 mechanics seems to line up so far?

Lathum, does brit having a seer role in addition to his Big 6 role seem consistent for you with the "minor power" that you have but don't want to discuss?

Trying to get a sense for the disconnect between the three Big 6 reveals so far. My gut says that we should be looking here today, barring something substantial on a non-Big6 player coming out.

[hoopsguy]

I guess what I'm not sure of is how the Big Six would find their targets -- if they get a search, or it is a special order or what.

Figuring out how the Big Six work into it is the main thing I'm trying to understand so far. Something about the idea of going after them sounds counter-intuitive and I'm not sure why.

There are a few posts from path over the last couple of days where he seems to be trying to understand game mechanics. Which is pretty normal stuff.

However, he started at the house. So did 12 others.
3 of which are already revealed as Big 6.
2 of which are already dead.
So he, going by my counting-fingers-math, has a 3/7 chance of also being a member of our Big 6.

If he was an Informant, I strongly doubt that he would be suggesting that going after the Big 6 is "counter-intuitive". If I run with that assumption, we're now at a 3/5 chance that he is Big 6 and 2/5 that he is "Extra" role (Boddy or Wadsworth).

In case, we've forgotten the "extras" roles, I'll quote them as well.
Mr Boddy
Oh yeah. He's here, he's blackmailing you, and he has in his possession six lethal weapons.

Wadsworth
Mr Boddy's personal butler, he himself was being blackmailed by the odious Mr Boddy. It was his idea to gather everyone to the house and confront Mr Boddy.

Anyway, I'm definitely considering path12 to be a person of interest at this stage.

More post digging to come ...

[hoopsguy]

i suspect thats the case too. how can the 6 become murderers? i suspect they have important villager roles also. maybe the bodyguard, but if he guards a certain person he kills them and joins the wolves. a seer that can scan but if they scan the worng person the kill them and join the wolves. same with a duke.. as a matter o fact there are 6 potential, might have 2 of each of those roles. can anyone whos played more than me tell me of other regualar villager roles that might be in the game?

Back to bullet, who is speculating that the Big 6 have the core roles in the game. He has several additional posts where he spitballs on what roles would be tied to names, but this leaves me thinking that he is also Big 6.

[Lathum]

Brits seer role doesn't seem to add up to me, seems very powerful in contrast to what my minor ability is. Not to mention it doesn't add up to have a seer that can turn wolf.

[hoopsguy]

The way CW has warned about the potential for a bloodbath makes me think that there isn't an option for the Big Six to kill their informer or not, it would just happen. Otherwise there doesn't seem to be a lot of motivation to kill anyone except if you just really want to be a wolf this game.

Again, this seems to line up with path as a member of our Big 6.

[Autumn]

Though that bit with M. Brunette in makeup -- could HE have been doing a search and ran into Scarlett? I wonder if that would trigger a murder as well?

But he was disguised as Plum, no?

[bhlloy]

That's a very interesting theory hoops, I can't necessarily disagree with anything you've said there.

[hoopsguy]

Like hoops, I will also confirm that my "role" has some similarity to a role I have seen in WW in the past, but is not an exact fit.

This is the closest I've seen to role info revealed by Chief Rum. Other than this, at least so far, he is just an engaged player doing what seems like pretty good analysis.

I'm wondering if the Informants have any information in their role indicating who is gunning for them ... for example, if Chief might have known that JAG was a Big 6 member who wanted to kill him (seeing as how the Informants are blackmailing a member of the Big 6) and thus put his vote on him as a way to mark the person for later in the game?

Probably a stretch, but just trying to work through in my head how CW might have balanced this one. The Informants are going to have to try and survive kills from wolves and Big 6, so I would expect they get at least some kind of edge to help them along rather than just being cannon fodder, relatively speaking.

[bulletsponge]

need to wake up earlier from now on. wake up at 10 and theres already people pointing fingers at me. and because ive been encourage to be more talkative and engaged after last game, that makes me a target this game.

[Autumn]

Brits seer role doesn't seem to add up to me, seems very powerful in contrast to what my minor ability is. Not to mention it doesn't add up to have a seer that can turn wolf.

Lots of evidence for a fake reveal. But to play devils advocate, in this game I could see several seers, who can be converted.

[Autumn]

This is the closest I've seen to role info revealed by Chief Rum. Other than this, at least so far, he is just an engaged player doing what seems like pretty good analysis.

I'm wondering if the Informants have any information in their role indicating who is gunning for them ... for example, if Chief might have known that JAG was a Big 6 member who wanted to kill him (seeing as how the Informants are blackmailing a member of the Big 6) and thus put his vote on him as a way to mark the person for later in the game?

Probably a stretch, but just trying to work through in my head how CW might have balanced this one. The Informants are going to have to try and survive kills from wolves and Big 6, so I would expect they get at least some kind of edge to help them along rather than just being cannon fodder, relatively speaking.

That could be interesting, if the informers know the ID of their big six. Would be good to find out from an informer soon.

[hoopsguy]

Day One vote, so it's worthless. But I waited this long just to see who popped up. I don't like the run on Chubby, even though I would guess it is innocent. If I had to choose between murrayyyyy and britrock, I would likely go with britrock, simply because I have been a wolf with him, and I know he can be a good one. Plus, this is my first time playing with murrayyyyy.

But I would rather see what other reactions we can get to a tighter vote. So I'll vote JAG and get him up even with Chubby. He can handle it.

VOTE JAG

This vote was the 3rd on JAG, putting him up closer to the top with Chubby and murrayyyyy. Would CR do that without some reason to gun for JAG? Maybe? But normally villager Chief is happy to have other analytical players around to riff about the game. The "he can handle it" seems a little odd, although I may be guilty of fitting to my theory right now.

[hoopsguy]

need to wake up earlier from now on. wake up at 10 and theres already people pointing fingers at me. and because ive been encourage to be more talkative and engaged after last game, that makes me a target this game.

Welcome to werewolf :)

[bulletsponge]

has britrock checked in this morning? he claimed he had a scan and i want to know who he scaned.

[hoopsguy]

My point is that your premise (that the Big Six are trying to kill their informants) is flawed.

I would only try to kill my informant if I wanted to be a murderer. Since I want to stay town, I'm trying to avoid killing my informant.

This seems inconsistent with what I've heard from Lathum and britrock.
Maybe all Big 6 don't operate exactly the same way, but this is the crux of my concern with fontsian at the moment. That there is an agenda with the reveal. I just can't quite figure out what it is, given that the reveal came at a point in the game where there was zero pressure on fontsian.

[bhlloy]

Lots of evidence for a fake reveal. But to play devils advocate, in this game I could see several seers, who can be converted.

If this is the case let's face it we are stuffed. If there are multiple seers who could later become wolves, I don't know how we win against that.

I think it's more likely that Britrock's reveal is completely false and we have no true seer, just everyone has roles that are very specific to their character and certain other characters.

[bulletsponge]

has britrock checked in this morning? he claimed he had a scan and i want to know who he scaned.

check that, saw he scanned ntn

[Danny]

He scanned you as a murderer

[hoopsguy]

dude wtf? save that for when your about to hang. i suspect this rookie wont live long

Continuing my theory on bullet = Big 6. Last thing he wants is info coming out about how they actually work.

Probably need to know if bullet is Big 6 before knowing how to read this post perfectly, but it seemed worth quoting on my post-dredging odyssey.

[ntndeacon]

I will say that I am not Scarlett.

[Danny]

I am not Scarlett either

[bhlloy]

This seems inconsistent with what I've heard from Lathum and britrock.
Maybe all Big 6 don't operate exactly the same way, but this is the crux of my concern with fontsian at the moment. That there is an agenda with the reveal. I just can't quite figure out what it is, given that the reveal came at a point in the game where there was zero pressure on fontsian.

Agenda is the right word I think. It's the kind of move I make when I'm desperate (and never seems to work out). I can't understand why do it on day 1 with no pressure. Try to lull informant into the open to be killed? Doesn't fill me with confidence, and I don't see a downside to a lynch here right now.

[hoopsguy]

I do not have an additional victory condition, unless I kill my informant and become a murderer. Seriously, if I did I wouldn't have role revealed.

Lathum/brit - is getting your Informant a victory condition?

[bulletsponge]

He scanned you as a murderer

well that would be a surprise to me

[hoopsguy]

Do you have to specifically request to try and kill that person? Or do you have to search?

And if you have to search do you have to do it every night?

Speaking for myself I appreciate the info since most of my day has been speculating on the Big Six.

Again, assumption was that if path = informant, he would have been gung-ho about getting rid of Big 6.

So either this is false info or else true and it strongly suggests Boddy/Wadsworth.

[bhlloy]

Going back through the writeup this jumps out at me. Makes me feel even worse about britrock's reveal


Also, do not expect roles to be the normal WW roles. There are a few similarities, but for the most part, they are weird.

I don't think CW puts this here if there's a common garden seer in the game. That, coupled with the fact that the claimed seer role is far more powerful and different a role than others I'm aware of in the game right now, I'm calling BS on this one.

[hoopsguy]

It was a placeholder vote. I wanted to see what would happen with a fourth candidate out there. It won't stay there. But I haven't decided where to go yet either.

Personally, I like both murrayyyyy and britrock88 to remain in the game. But I'm not going to hide from the vote and go elsewhere unless another candidate makes themselves available.

Chief talks further about his JAG vote. Maybe much ado about nothing on my part.

[hoopsguy]

Going back through the writeup this jumps out at me. Makes me feel even worse about britrock's reveal


Also, do not expect roles to be the normal WW roles. There are a few similarities, but for the most part, they are weird.

I don't think CW puts this here if there's a common garden seer in the game. That, coupled with the fact that the claimed seer role is far more powerful and different a role than others I'm aware of in the game right now, I'm calling BS on this one.

Subject to further information, I'll agree with what you + Lathum are saying.
Going to keep exploring other stuff in threads, but with the info we have right now I think this makes some sense.
VOTE BRITROCK

[hoopsguy]

Unvote JAG
Vote murrayyyyy

I don't know about murrayyyyy, but he can't be a worse lynch than I.

Here is the seer reveal, clearly under late vote duress. Not that I'm advocating revealing seer to start Day 1, but you have to be a little more skeptical of the self-serving reveal as powerful role right before deadline.

This would help us learn about voting history from Day 1 (potentially limited use as game goes on and Big 6 convert) while eliminating a confessed Big 6 member from the pool. There is skepticism about the scope of the revealed role ... just enough here to make me feel decent about this vote if it does end up here.

[Autumn]

However, as much as I agree that Brit's reveal is fishy, if he really was the seer it would be smart to keep him around. Either the wolves kill him, and get rid of one of the Big 6 for us, thereby preventing another death and conversoin, or they keep him around and we get some free scans. Certainly we're not going to believe them 100%, but they'll be useful once we find out the truth.

[hoopsguy]

Screw it. It's only worth one scan, but I'm the seer.

And brit held off an extra six minutes before coming out with the full-blown seer reveal.

Would there have been any other role that would have been surrendered at that point capable of turning votes? Probably, but that is the one most interesting for the wolves in an effort to turn someone against them in the thread so they can seer-hunt later.

Still trying to figure out why brit would come out as Big 6 today if a wolf, however. That, plus the inherent risk of "doing wolves job for them" is my struggle with feeling 100% confident in this vote.

[Coffee Warlord]

2 - Autumn
1 - Bulletsponge
1 - Britrock

[hoopsguy]

Unvote Chief Rum
Vote murrayyyy

Some quality deadline monitoring and switching late for a first time player :)

[britrock88]

Some quality deadline monitoring and switching late for a first time player :)

Attorneys are all too familiar with the mechanics of Werewolf... ;)

[hoopsguy]

unvote chubby
vote brit

Two minutes after reveal, one before deadline. This looks pretty bad if brit was not a (starting) murderer.

[britrock88]

Lots of evidence for a fake reveal. But to play devils advocate, in this game I could see several seers, who can be converted.

argggh

[britrock88]

Lathum/brit - is getting your Informant a victory condition?

Scanning/killing our informant is our conversion condition, not a victory condition.

[PackerFanatic]

Just so I make sure I get a vote out there...I like hoops analysis of brit, but I feel we can be just as well-served by offing another confessed Big6 member and keeping around a potential seer.

VOTE FONTISIAN

[hoopsguy]

unvote brit
vote muraayyy

In fairness, it is cleaned up in the same minute.

[britrock88]

Going back through the writeup this jumps out at me. Makes me feel even worse about britrock's reveal


Also, do not expect roles to be the normal WW roles. There are a few similarities, but for the most part, they are weird.

I don't think CW puts this here if there's a common garden seer in the game. That, coupled with the fact that the claimed seer role is far more powerful and different a role than others I'm aware of in the game right now, I'm calling BS on this one.

Would "seer who kills informant when he scans him/her and converts" not fit that description?

[path12]

Hoops, I'll put it out there that I am not an Informant. I would like to keep it at that for now.

[hoopsguy]

unvote murrayyy
vote britrock

Chubby why the change back?

i dont know who muraayyy is, doesnt count!

didnt want a tie

i was going off of #418 then mau and me cancelled each other out

/shrug it was fast and furious

Well, if you were wondering why murrayyyyy wanted Chubby checked out today (per seance) this is the sequence.

[britrock88]

Here is the seer reveal, clearly under late vote duress. Not that I'm advocating revealing seer to start Day 1, but you have to be a little more skeptical of the self-serving reveal as powerful role right before deadline.

This would help us learn about voting history from Day 1 (potentially limited use as game goes on and Big 6 convert) while eliminating a confessed Big 6 member from the pool. There is skepticism about the scope of the revealed role ... just enough here to make me feel decent about this vote if it does end up here.

I was tossing around whether to reveal, as I would expect a powerful role to typically do (though see DT in the Vanilla game for an example of the opposite), or just to go down. But I figured the village wouldn't like seeing its seer go down on Day 1 without much of a fight. Plus, we knew murrayyyyy was the cook. I had the inkling that the Big Six might have more powerful roles than players in other character categories, so I was okay with a shift to him.

[britrock88]

hoops, I'm going to leapfrog and that and make sure we keep Chubby in the discussion.

Vote Chubby

[Coffee Warlord]

Dance puppets, dance.

[britrock88]

Unless when you find someone you auto-kill them I guess. That makes a lot of sense. Still, unless CR tipped his hand that's a hell of a lucky shot on N1.

Bingo. This is how it would work for me.

Random, dumb luck is always a possibility too! And if it was Scarlet, no way she comes out now, because she is probably converted now.

Quoted for reinforcement.

[britrock88]

However, as much as I agree that Brit's reveal is fishy, if he really was the seer it would be smart to keep him around. Either the wolves kill him, and get rid of one of the Big 6 for us, thereby preventing another death and conversoin, or they keep him around and we get some free scans. Certainly we're not going to believe them 100%, but they'll be useful once we find out the truth.

Bingo.

[hoopsguy]

i'm not of the believe he's a full blown seer at all

I see what you did there..

Shhh, I won't tell anyone.

There are several people who have made similar comments in the thread suggesting that brit probably is not a full-blown seer. He's had opportunities to suggest that his seer role might be a bit diminished, but has chosen not to exercise that option so far.

[hoopsguy]

brit, I'm not convinced my vote is staying where it is ... I really don't want to hang a full-blown seer on D2 of this game even if letting you hang around tilts the odds to you going murderer on us later.

But if you are already a murderer then there isn't any kind of relative value calculation worth doing at this point. So that is what I'm trying to figure out in my head first and foremost.

[hoopsguy]

its hard to tell is Brit is full of it right now. if hes alive in 2 nights then im confident hes a wolf

More "bullet makes me nervous" posts ... predicting outcomes that suggest what we have to vote.

[hoopsguy]

Putting in extra work because I'd like to make this one scan (BG willing) useful.

1) Autumn stuck vote on Chubby at 1:26pm to make it Murray-3/brit-2/Chubby-2
2) bulletsponge put brit up 3-1 at 10:12am; stuck to CR (single votee) at 11:16am
3) mauchow voted Zinto 1:56pm Sunday; moved to Chubby at 4:50pm to tie Chubby/murray/brit at 4; moved to brit, then murray at deadline
4) Zinto stuck vote on murray at 5:12pm to tie murray/brit at 5 with Chubby at 4
5) JAG first to vote brit (10:58am Sunday); moved to murray at deadline
6) Chief Rum voted JAG at 4:26pm to make it murray/brit-4, Chubby/JAG-3
7)PackerFanatic voted brit at 8:58am to make it 2-1-1-1
8) saldana voted JAG up to 2 at 3:51pm with murray-brit-Chubby at 4-4-3; moved to murray at 7:02pm to make it brit-6/murray-5
9) Lathum voted murray at 10:13am to make it brit-3/murray-2
10) DaddyTorgo voted murray at 7:49pm to make it brit-7/murray-6 (pre-reveal)
11) britrock88 voted JAG 6:52pm Sunday (4th single votee); moved to murray at deadline
12) Danny first to vote Chubby (12:50pm) with brit-3/murray-2; moved to brit before deadline to make it brit-7/murray-5; switched to murray at deadline
13) murrayyyyy voted DQ at 10:51am; moved to Chubby at 1:36pm to tie brit/murray/Chubby at 3; moved to brit at deadline
14) KatyLied voted CR up to 2 at 5:40pm (leaders at 4/5); moved to murray at deadline
15) path12 voted brit at 2:40pm to tie Chubby/brit/murray at 3
16) hoopsguy voted path (single votee) at 2:36pm
17) ntndeacon first to vote murray, 6:24pm Sunday; moved to brit at 4:55pm to make it brit-5/Chubby-4/murray-3 (broke 3-way tie)
18) DQ_BOY1000 voted murray ahead of brit (3-2) at 12:35pm
19) fontisian voted murray within 1 of brit (4-5) at 4:59pm; moved to Chubby at 5:24pm to tie Chubby/brit at 5
20) Chubby voted murray ahead of brit (4-3) at 3:33pm; at deadline, moved to brit pre-reveal, then to murray and back to brit post-reveal
21) bhlloy ...no vote...
22) Darth Vilus voted brit into 4-4 tie with murray at 3:34pm

I remember seeing at least 11 members in the thread at 7:56 when I decided to go for the reveal. Eight people voted within 10 minutes of the deadline. People who didn't vote near the deadline but posted within 5 minutes of the deadline: Autumn, bulletsponge, DQ_BOY1000, Lathum.

Autumn was on Chubby, bulletsponge on CR, DQ_BOY and Lathum on murrayyyyy.

Also, if brit was a starting wolf then bravo for the extra effort last night putting this stuff together. Seems pretty villagerish to me upon re-read.

[Autumn]

Still trying to figure out why brit would come out as Big 6 today if a wolf, however. That, plus the inherent risk of "doing wolves job for them" is my struggle with feeling 100% confident in this vote.

If he's an Informer it might have been a shot at not getting "scanned" and killed.

[Danny]

I think Brit is on the up and up. It does surprise me at all that it appears the original 6 have different conditions / abilities. Seems a way to balance things.

[Danny]

Meant to say it does not surprise me at all

[hoopsguy]

As dawn approaches, you hear a scream, and a gunshot!

The guest throw on their robes, many who look quite tired, as if they've been up all night, and search the house. It is not hard to find.

Lying face down in the hallway with their throat cut is Prof...no, wait! That's not Professor Plum, though it certainly looks like him! Careful examination shows it is actually Monsieur Brunette!

Darth Vilus was Monsiuer Brunette - He could disguise himself as any other player and perform their action.

So if you could steal a role's actions, would you go with Professor Plum with the assumption that is the seer? I could definitely get behind that logic ...

However, if he took a fall while impersonating someone - as CW's pre-writeup post of "this is gonna take awhile" (p505) suggests then that would suggest someone targeted Professor Plum, or one of our Big 6.

Boddy, who holds the weapons per role descriptions?
Any other theories make a lot of sense that might help explain the killing? I can't see murderers wanting to attack players who could later be joining their side.

[Lathum]

Lathum/brit - is getting your Informant a victory condition?

nope, no seperate victory condition

[DaddyTorgo]

I was tossing around whether to reveal, as I would expect a powerful role to typically do (though see DT in the Vanilla game for an example of the opposite), or just to go down. But I figured the village wouldn't like seeing its seer go down on Day 1 without much of a fight. Plus, we knew murrayyyyy was the cook. I had the inkling that the Big Six might have more powerful roles than players in other character categories, so I was okay with a shift to him.

You don't have my balls. ;)

[Danny]

Are they chocolate and salty?

[britrock88]

If he's an Informer it might have been a shot at not getting "scanned" and killed.

I wouldn't have gone to the trouble of revealing and all that follows if I had a less significant villag role...

You don't have my balls. ;)

Heh. Well, you did have that tie to help you out. And that other tie. ... and that other, other tie. :p

[hoopsguy]

OK, going to try and actually get some stuff done - couple of hours of my life I'm not getting back already sunk into post-diving.

[Danny]

Brit made the right call no matter if he is telling the truth or not. He was getting lynched if he did not reveal

[saldana]

i have to put a placeholder in for now since i will be out an about with my kids for a while

i dont totally buy what brit is selling, but i also dont really care for the antics at the deadline that went on yesterday

vote chubby

[Autumn]

So if you could steal a role's actions, would you go with Professor Plum with the assumption that is the seer? I could definitely get behind that logic ...

However, if he took a fall while impersonating someone - as CW's pre-writeup post of "this is gonna take awhile" (p505) suggests then that would suggest someone targeted Professor Plum, or one of our Big 6.

Boddy, who holds the weapons per role descriptions?
Any other theories make a lot of sense that might help explain the killing? I can't see murderers wanting to attack players who could later be joining their side.

That's a possibility for why DV got hit. There may be a role that can somehow target Characters, rather than Players. Or simply that the disguise fooled someone who was trying to kill the real Professor Plum.

[bhlloy]

Would "seer who kills informant when he scans him/her and converts" not fit that description?

It might, but its also a power that is completely out of whack with what else we have seen in the game.

It also strikes me that by saying you can be converted you are giving yourself a reason why you wouldn't have been killed after a couple of nights. It's way too convenient. Sorry, I'm not buying it for a second

[bhlloy]

However, as much as I agree that Brit's reveal is fishy, if he really was the seer it would be smart to keep him around. Either the wolves kill him, and get rid of one of the Big 6 for us, thereby preventing another death and conversoin, or they keep him around and we get some free scans. Certainly we're not going to believe them 100%, but they'll be useful once we find out the truth.

Problem is he can be converted at any time. So we can't even read too much into his scans. He could have killed CR last night and already be a wolf no?

And if he's telling the truth about being able to be converted, the wolves have no reason to kill him either. So this isn't going to get cleared up either way

[Autumn]

If he's able to be converted, and is truly a seer, then leaving him alive means that at any point before being converted he might find a wolf. That's a big plus for the village and a big threat for the wolves. Yet the fact that he's suspect and able to be converted means it's tempting for them to leave him alive and hope he distracts us and confuses us. So I don't see a big downside to leaving him alive for the time being. We can always lynch him later. When we do, we'll know whether and when he was converted so his scans will be cleared up.

[bhlloy]

Not sure how we'd know when he was converted, if he's not already. Unless I'm missing something. Are you assuming that would be in the writeup?

Regardless I do have to agree there's no harm in looking elsewhere for a while. I think I agree that leaving him alive could be sensible, especially if we can pinpoint where a conversion happens.

[Darth Vilus]

bummer lol

[hoopsguy]

Does anyone have a vote count?

I'm going to have to determine if I sit on this vote or move it over the next couple of hours. Not sure if I'll be around all the way up to deadline tonight.

[PackerFanatic]

Autumn 2
bulletsponge 1
britrock88 1
fontisian 1
Chubby 1

[PackerFanatic]

Make that Chubby 2 as well - missed the vote from britrock

[britrock88]

To convert, I would have had to have been responsible for one of the two NKs last night. Because I am Big Six, my vendetta is against an Informant, so I can't have converted by scan-killing DV, who was an Other Extra. And assuming that the Big Six-Informant vendettas line up was we think they ought, I would only have scan-killed CR and converted if I were Miss Scarlett, which I'm not.

[britrock88]

And in either case, I wouldn't have a clean scan of ntn to report to you all.

[Coffee Warlord]

2 - Autumn
2 - Chubby
1 - Bulletsponge
1 - Britrock
1 - Font

[ntndeacon]

brit,
if you were not who you are saying you are, then you would not need a clean scan on me. you would need only report you had cleared someone..(I am just the fortunate one this time) If you clear me correctly, you have a major supporter for your claim. If you "cleared" a wolf, then that will help the wolves

[ntndeacon]

Viewing how quick you had, before the unfortunate knowledge of your seerdom got out, I am inclined to believe you., brit.

[ntndeacon]

Vote Lathum

This is a vote against voting or thinkingabout voting for a possible seer on day 2.

[britrock88]

NTN, to add to your Lathum vote, I was wondering if a smart wolf would take advantage of the fact that the Cook was lynched and claim the Big Six role associated with him.

[PackerFanatic]

That would still leave open the possibility of a counter-reveal though...not sure how smart that would be.

[bhlloy]

Interesting thought Brit, I doubt it though. That's the kind of he said/she said situation that results in death in two days if not one for a wolf. Not worth it

[bhlloy]

That would still leave open the possibility of a counter-reveal though...not sure how smart that would be.

Yup, this

[hoopsguy]

Well, seeing as how I have my vote on the "possible seer" on Day 2 I probably am at least as guilty as Lathum.

I'm pretty sure I'll be voting for one of our Big Six today, but I doubt it would be Lathum without someone countering his role.

[Autumn]

Not sure how we'd know when he was converted, if he's not already. Unless I'm missing something. Are you assuming that would be in the writeup?

Regardless I do have to agree there's no harm in looking elsewhere for a while. I think I agree that leaving him alive could be sensible, especially if we can pinpoint where a conversion happens.

On his death we'll know for sure what his Character is. We can then look back and see if his Informer was killed on an earlier day, and if so know that he was converted that day.

[Danny]

Good analysis Autumn, when he dies then we will know his character and allegiance ;)

[Autumn]

To convert, I would have had to have been responsible for one of the two NKs last night. Because I am Big Six, my vendetta is against an Informant, so I can't have converted by scan-killing DV, who was an Other Extra. And assuming that the Big Six-Informant vendettas line up was we think they ought, I would only have scan-killed CR and converted if I were Miss Scarlett, which I'm not.

You are either: Miss Scarlett, and now a Murderer, and lying to us (but not lying yesterday about being a seer);

or

You are another Big 6, not lying about a seer, and innocent

or

You are another Big 6, a starting Murderer, and not lying about being a seer

or

You are another Big 6, a starting Murderer and lying about being a seer

or

You are an Informer/Extra Role, a starting Murderer, and lying about being a seer and a Big 6

or

You are an Informer/eXtra Role, a starting Murderer, lying about being a Big 6 but not lying about being a seer.

Lots of possibilities!

[Autumn]

Good analysis Autumn, when he dies then we will know his character and allegiance ;)

Well, what I mean is when he dies we'll know exactly when he was converted, so we'll know which scans to trust. So as long as we don't put much weight in them now, why not let him scan?

[Danny]

[I got you, I just laughed when I read it. I agree btw

[Chubby]

unvote autumn
Vote britrock

sounds likes to me brit is simply a big 6er. Whether my vote stays on him hinges on his answer to one question: which big 6 are you?

[Danny]

You are either: Miss Scarlett, and now a Murderer, and lying to us (but not lying yesterday about being a seer);

or

You are another Big 6, not lying about a seer, and innocent

or

You are another Big 6, a starting Murderer, and not lying about being a seer

or

You are another Big 6, a starting Murderer and lying about being a seer

or

You are an Informer/Extra Role, a starting Murderer, and lying about being a seer and a Big 6

or

You are an Informer/eXtra Role, a starting Murderer, lying about being a Big 6 but not lying about being a seer.

Lots of possibilities!


Or you are not an informer / extra role, not a starting murderer, not a seer, not a big 6 and instead a neutral role who is trying to save the chance you have at accomplishing your win condition!

[PackerFanatic]

Well, what I mean is when he dies we'll know exactly when he was converted, so we'll know which scans to trust. So as long as we don't put much weight in them now, why not let him scan?

Or now you just gave the wolves the ammunition they needed to off him ;)

[Zinto]

I am not going to vote for Lathum or Brit today. I will give Brit time and let that work itself out in the next couple of days. Lathum had no reason to reveal except that he cannot be converted. I know that he could have started a murderer but I am not sure if he would reveal if that was the case.

[Coffee Warlord]

2 - Britrock
2 - Chubby
1 - Autumn
1 - Bulletsponge
1 - Font
1 - Lathum

[bulletsponge]

Good analysis Autumn, when he dies then we will know his character and allegiance ;)

lol. hell lets all follow this.

[Lathum]

vote Britrock

[Lathum]

This is a vote against voting or thinkingabout voting for a possible seer on day 2.

so we actually have someone who did vote Brit, yet you vote me for considering it?

[Autumn]

Or now you just gave the wolves the ammunition they needed to off him ;)

I'm fine with that. Half hte crowd wants to lynch him anyway. If they want to spend their night kill removing a possible convert, then hey they're helping us out. Our whole plan was to get rid of the Big 6. So either they give us a seer, or remove a convert. Thanks guys!

[JAG]

Just to let you all know, I'm trying to catch up, but this isn't going to be my best day. I've been exhausted since the morning and I have to pick up the kids early today due to the snow (leaving shortly). I don't really see myself voting for Brit today though. I was skeptical about the way the reveal went down last night and figured he could be a starting murderer with a juicy power the murderers didn't want to lose, but to come out today and claim to be a Big 6 member and dish out the info he has doesn't seem like a guy trying to survive no matter what when there has been a lot of discussion about trying to get rid of the Big 6 members.

[PackerFanatic]

Has brit said which Big6 member he is? I don't recall seeing it if so...

[Chubby]

Has brit said which Big6 member he is? I don't recall seeing it if so...

not that I saw and that is what I am waiting for personally

[britrock88]

You guys wanna know? Fine. But you'll have to think straight for a minute and not lynch somebody who's more valuable dead to the wolves than he is alive.

[britrock88]

Well, I'll go ahead and semi-reveal now and hope that you've been paying attention. Someone guessed correctly which Big Sixer would be the seer earlier in the thread.

[britrock88]

The only reason I'm reticent is that it would put me in a tricky situation vis a vis my informant.

[Chubby]

not helping your case :D

[britrock88]

Really? Explain.

[ntndeacon]

so we actually have someone who did vote Brit, yet you vote me for considering it?

right, yours happened first I believe... so to me the more sketchy.

[Chubby]

Really? Explain.

you didn't answer the question. if there's nothing to hide why not come out with it?

you don't have an issue stating you are a "seer" but won't say which character you are? The ability is far more important IMO and you have already said that.

unless of course you are hiding something and that's why you don't want to name your character...

[Coffee Warlord]

4 - Britrock
2 - Chubby
1 - Autumn
1 - Bulletsponge
1 - Font
1 - Lathum

[britrock88]

Ready to state the name if anyone other than Chubby asks for it.

[Zinto]

heres my suspicions on the roles

the cop- hes a BG
the cook- can poison 1 person as a nigght action
Prof plum- seer
Scarlett- seer
Green- BG
Col Mustard- Duke
the Maid- seer

just an idea of some

Is it in this post Brit?

[path12]

That could be interesting, if the informers know the ID of their big six. Would be good to find out from an informer soon.

I doubt you'd see that until their Big Six counterpart was dead.

[britrock88]

Sure is. Post 668 for more details.

[Zinto]

I do not see the advantage of lynching Brit today. If everyone wants to lynch a member of the big six then let it be Font over Brit. If we get lucky we could conceivably get another scan in.

[britrock88]

(urges you all to vote Chubby)

[Chubby]

so you're Scarlett?

[Autumn]

I do not see the advantage of lynching Brit today. If everyone wants to lynch a member of the big six then let it be Font over Brit. If we get lucky we could conceivably get another scan in.

Well, the question is about whether he truly is in the Big 6 or not. Could have just faked that, thinking we'd be inclined to keep him around, or to avoid getting attacked by a real Big 6er.

[Zinto]

so you're Scarlett?


Scarlett or Plum I would guess?

[KatyLied]

VOTE AUTUMN

Because...I'm behind on today's posts and I'm going with my gut for now. It's a placeholder at best.

[Chubby]

Scarlett or Plum I would guess?

and aren't we leaning on Scarlett being a murderer after last night?

[Autumn]

Sure is. Post 668 for more details.

Why the coy act? If yo'ure going to tell us, which you already have, just tell us. Are you afraid there's a soothsayer in the game?

[Chubby]

Why the coy act? If yo'ure going to tell us, which you already have, just tell us. Are you afraid there's a soothsayer in the game?

yeah wtf, does he think he's me? :p

[Autumn]

Seems like it ;-)

[hoopsguy]

So if you could steal a role's actions, would you go with Professor Plum with the assumption that is the seer? I could definitely get behind that logic ...

However, if he took a fall while impersonating someone - as CW's pre-writeup post of "this is gonna take awhile" (p505) suggests then that would suggest someone targeted Professor Plum, or one of our Big 6.

Boddy, who holds the weapons per role descriptions?
Any other theories make a lot of sense that might help explain the killing? I can't see murderers wanting to attack players who could later be joining their side.

Here is post #668, just to save some folks looking at previous pages.

[bulletsponge]

brit you were less suspicious last game when you kept your mouth shut. this is why i will never ever reveal. if the villagers hang me then screw them, no matter how important my role. if i ever do a role reveal, you can bet im lying

[hoopsguy]

brit you were less suspicious last game when you kept your mouth shut. this is why i will never ever reveal. if the villagers hang me then screw them, no matter how important my role. if i ever do a role reveal, you can bet im lying

Regardless of side, this is pretty damn funny.
100% contrary to how I play, but still made me laugh when reading it.

[Lathum]

right, yours happened first I believe... so to me the more sketchy.

nope,Hoops did.

[fontisian]

Hey brit, mind saying "I am Professor Plum" for the sake of a soothslayer?

I think lynching brit today would be a mistake. Let's let him get some scans in, keeping in mind that he could have been a murderer from the start.

Anyway, I thought my motivation for revealing should be fairly obvious. The odds of me hitting my informant on one go without any scanning ability are so low that I might as well consider myself a permanent town player and do whatever I can to ensure a town victory.

brit you were less suspicious last game when you kept your mouth shut. this is why i will never ever reveal. if the villagers hang me then screw them, no matter how important my role. if i ever do a role reveal, you can bet im lying
But then your lynch is your own fault.

[hoopsguy]

OK, so didn't get much traction on this post earlier. Hoping people will either verify info I'm listing or add info that I'm missing.

Big 6: Lathum = Peacock, britrock (suggesting Plum in post 724) and Fontsian also have B6 roles
Informants: dead Cop, dead Cook
Other Extras: dead Brunette

ntn = not starting murderer, per brit (N1)
not N1 murderers = KatyLied, bhlloy, mauchow, DT, Saldana, Danny (not at house yet)

Other Extras = KatyLied, hoopsguy, bhlloy, mauchow, DT, Autumn, Saldana, Danny

path12 revealed "not informant"
NTN revealed "not Scarlett"
Chubby revealed "not Big 6"

[Chubby]

so brit can't claim plum... :)

[Chubby]

ohhhh font is suggesting brit is Plum?

[fontisian]

ohhhh font is suggesting brit is Plum?
Dude, I have no idea. I just don't like the way brit revealed.

[Chubby]

Dude, I have no idea. I just don't like the way brit revealed.

yeah, you're not the only one :popcorn:

[mauchow]

brit you were less suspicious last game when you kept your mouth shut. this is why i will never ever reveal. if the villagers hang me then screw them, no matter how important my role. if i ever do a role reveal, you can bet im lying

I wouldn't say that you play enough games you'll know you gotta reveal truthfully sometimes.

[Zinto]

Brit would have to be revealing as Plum if he is revealing off that post. He is clearly not revealing as Scarlett and if he is then he is trying to say that he did not kill CR yesterday.

[mauchow]

Oh jeez I'm a page behind.

[Zinto]

brit you were less suspicious last game when you kept your mouth shut. this is why i will never ever reveal. if the villagers hang me then screw them, no matter how important my role. if i ever do a role reveal, you can bet im lying


Well, usually if you reveal/fake reveal as a seer you don't have this much backlash to the reveal. Those are the breaks sometimes.

[hoopsguy]

Brit would have to be revealing as Plum if he is revealing off that post. He is clearly not revealing as Scarlett and if he is then he is trying to say that he did not kill CR yesterday.

He has also said, going from memory, that he is not Scarlett earlier in the thread.

As the day goes on, I think it is becoming less and less likely that someone is going to cop to that role.

[Zinto]

I don't blame someone for not coming out as Scarlett because more than likely we would lynch them no matter what they said to try and convince us otherwise.