All-Pro Football 2K8 Special Abilities REVEALED

[Pared]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

This is my problem with this system. Either all "Speed Burners" are the same speed, or there are hidden number ratings. So, the system either sucks, or it's just a change in interface only, replacing numbers with cool kiddy names. There was nothing wrong with the number system. Folks just didn't understand how OVERALL ratings were calculated. Many here got caught up in their favorite WR being a 95, while another was a 98, not realizing that the individual ratings usually painted a very accurate picture, just like these ability titles do.

Well, this eliminates people getting "caught up." Even if every "speed burner" is the same speed, they're still 1) faster than the generic players and 2) have other abilities that might come into play during contact.

All it is is a set system of higher attributes given to certain players. If the proper amount of user input is included when deciding whether or not a player is faster, goes down, whatever.... then it's a pretty good system, and not too different from the ratings system.

Can we at least give it a try first?

[Von Dozier]

Wow, so I guess people found the next thing to complain about. How ignorant can you be?

If the legends had numerical ratings, they'd ALL BE THE SAME RATING. EVERYONE IN THIS GAME WOULD BE A 95 OR 100. Seriously, in 2k5, did you EVER notice an 85 speed player to a 95 speed player? For 2 years of playing it, I sure as hell didn't.

That's why backup QBs with the official 2k download roster updates, starting overall rating QBs were around 80-90 and backups were around 50-60. So, in order for ANYONE to play slightly different, they had to have drastically different ratings. The abilities in 2k8 simply differentiate easier from one to another.

Overall I just love how you're acting about this now. You never heard one single tiny complaint about them before, and now people are flipping out. You kiddies are funny

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by FFBACKLASH

Thing is, there are certain things that are flat out not quantifiable in numbers. "Footsteps" is a great example. A guy is either intimidating or he's not. You brought up speed. There have been countless reports on ESPN and other sport shows stating how little value a guys 40 time has in actual football. For instance, the knock on Jerry Rice when he entered the NFL was his lack of speed. Tell that to CBs and Safetys he's smoked throuhgout his career. A guy could run a 4.1 40 but you still don't know if he's got break-away speed after he turns up field in full pads or if he can close on a ball carrier sprinting down the field. So question becomes "what kind of speed does this guy have?"

This could all be given number values.

Footsteps = Intimidation Rating

Speed - Just don't base it on 40 times. Base it on game speed. And have different categories... Run Pursuit, Break Away Speed, ect.

Rice got open by running great routes. Route Running rating handles that.


And the beauty of numbers is that you can differentiate slightly intimidating, intimidating, very intimidating, and hell no I'm not running my route over there.

Same for speed. Both Hester and Hall(Falcons) are very fast, but one is probably faster than the other. A digit or 2 takes care of that.

Rice is probably one of, if not the best route runner ever. But there are others who were excellent route runners, just not as percise as Rice. How do you differentiate Rice from other good route runners with a simple title?

[Fenrir]

Quote: Originally Posted by FFBACKLASH

Thing is, there are certain things that are flat out not quantifiable in numbers. "Footsteps" is a great example. A guy is either intimidating or he's not. You brought up speed. There have been countless reports on ESPN and other sport shows stating how little value a guys 40 time has in actual football. For instance, the knock on Jerry Rice when he entered the NFL was his lack of speed. Tell that to CBs and Safetys he's smoked throuhgout his career. A guy could run a 4.1 40 but you still don't know if he's got break-away speed after he turns up field in full pads or if he can close on a ball carrier sprinting down the field. So question becomes "what kind of speed does this guy have?"

You are confusing two issues.

There is the 40 time issue, which is still a hot topic in the real life NFL. Then there is the speed rating issue.

The 40 time issue has little to do with video games. Speed in football games is normally a guy's "football speed" and not just a representation of his 40 time.

As for Rice, he was not even close to one of the fastest WRs of his time. He beat guys because he would get them off balance with his precise route running. This got him separation to make catches since he had great hands. I'm sure if you asked most people who defended him, none of them would say "Rice ran right past me I couldn't keep up". They'd say "that guy was uncoverable he ran routes so damn well".

As for Footsteps, I think there are much more levels of intimidation than Yes or No. Does the same safety that makes a rookie scrub hear footsteps make Jerry Rice hear footsteps? There are definitely levels to how intimidating a player is.

[Fenrir]

Quote: Originally Posted by Von Dozier

Wow, so I guess people found the next thing to complain about. How ignorant can you be? If the legends had numerical ratings, they'd ALL BE THE SAME RATING. EVERYONE IN THIS GAME WOULD BE A 95 OR 100. Seriously, in 2k5, did you EVER notice an 85 speed player to a 95 speed player? For 2 years of playing it, I sure as hell didn't. That's why backup QBs with the official 2k download roster updates, starting overall rating QBs were around 80-90 and backups were around 50-60. So, in order for ANYONE to play slightly different, they had to have drastically different ratings. The abilities in 2k8 simply differentiate easier from one to another. Overall I just love how you're acting about this now. You never heard one single tiny complaint about them before, and now people are flipping out. You kiddies are funny

I'm not sure what thread you are reading, but all I see is intelligent discussion about the rating system.

I don't see one post going "OMG TEH SYSTEM SUXXXXX". We are talking about the good and bad points of the system vs a numerical system.

In fact one of the only posts negative in this thread is yours talking about "kiddies" and calling people ignorant.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

Well, this eliminates people getting "caught up." Even if every "speed burner" is the same speed, they're still 1) faster than the generic players and 2) have other abilities that might come into play during contact.

I think it creates something else for folks to get caught up over... all fast guys being the same speed.

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

All it is is a set system of higher attributes given to certain players. If the proper amount of user input is included when deciding whether or not a player is faster, goes down, whatever.... then it's a pretty good system, and not too different from the ratings system.

Depends what you mean by good system. If the aim was to simplify, it's great. If the aim was to identify, the system is not so great. They could've given these same special attributes with numbers, except the numbers provide more accuracy. Now, what might have been the difference between 90 & 99 speed is gone. And what about non "Speed Burners"? What happens to the difference between 70 and 89 speed?

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

Can we at least give it a try first?

Sure, but just like some can say it's great without having tried it, others are going to say it's not so great before they try it.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by Von Dozier

Wow, so I guess people found the next thing to complain about. How ignorant can you be?

It's a discussion board. We all come here to discuss video games. Some view points will be negative. Why does that bother you?

Quote: Originally Posted by Von Dozier

If the legends had numerical ratings, they'd ALL BE THE SAME RATING. EVERYONE IN THIS GAME WOULD BE A 95 OR 100. Seriously, in 2k5, did you EVER notice an 85 speed player to a 95 speed player? For 2 years of playing it, I sure as hell didn't.

Understand that every 99 overall rated player is not created equal. What would make Sanders a 99 is not the same thing that would make Emmit a 99. Sanders would be faster & more elusive. Emmit would be stronger and catch better out of the backfield. There'd of course be other differences, but in the end, they'd both be a 99.

And I noticed the difference between 85 and 95 speed. Many others did too. As much of a role speed played in these games...

Quote: Originally Posted by Von Dozier

That's why backup QBs with the official 2k download roster updates, starting overall rating QBs were around 80-90 and backups were around 50-60. So, in order for ANYONE to play slightly different, they had to have drastically different ratings. The abilities in 2k8 simply differentiate easier from one to another.

2 QBs with overall ratings of 80 would play different because ones arm would be stronger, one would be more accurate, one would be faster, ect.

[Pared]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

I think it creates something else for folks to get caught up over... all fast guys being the same speed. Depends what you mean by good system. If the aim was to simplify, it's great. If the aim was to identify, the system is not so great. They could've given these same special attributes with numbers, except the numbers provide more accuracy. Now, what might have been the difference between 90 & 99 speed is gone. And what about non "Speed Burners"? What happens to the difference between 70 and 89 speed? Sure, but just like some can say it's great without having tried it, others are going to say it's not so great before they try it.

The difference is user input, possible fatigue on a play, and OTHER attributes when they come in contact. There might be a chance system based on physics and other factors, not simply ratings.

LOL I think it's pointless going back and forth. It's obvious you're hung up on a numerical system. I don't know why I even bothered.