Any Hopes Still Alive?

[K_GUN]

Quote: Originally Posted by elgreazy1

Apparently all the people who passed on APF or those who bought it and were upset by the lackluster season mode. NFL2K's franchise mode was deep and the fact that 2K/TT didn't even bother to try to insert one of their best parts of the game didn't sit well with a lot of us.

agreed.....if 2k had given us COMPLETE customization AND franchise i would spend a lot more time in this sub-forum

gameplay is key but i need more that that in my football titles

[2KVisual Concepts2K]

Quote: Originally Posted by elgreazy1

Apparently all the people who passed on APF or those who bought it and were upset by the lackluster season mode. NFL2K's franchise mode was deep and the fact that 2K/TT didn't even bother to try to insert one of their best parts of the game didn't sit well with a lot of us.

El Greazy,

The days of sitting in the dark in a room full of empty soda cans and having cheeto stained hands and controllers whilst playing the AI for thirty seasons are over.

Online Play or the Highway IMHO

Plus those type of gamers are the type 2K did not cater to and I personally don't blame them. Those guys need go back to Nintendo circa 1985 and STFU.
The real reason it did not sell is the NFL License. Sadly, the sports gaming community nowadays is overran with commerically induced, Name Brand type skilless peons who are like fish waiting for the next hook from EA Marketing and Popular culture to take bite...smh

These types don't care about the sport of football...these types just want to bomb it up with some "REAL" Player on a "REAL" Team...Uniforms, Logos and Names are all these types of gamers want....again and don't GAS about the quality of the game at all.

If you look at Madden 11 videos and see that tron jogging, keystone cop movie movement, ice skating galore, no pocket, pathetic play by play and actually like the game compared to APF 2K8.......YOU HAVE SERIOUS ISSUES. Madden is a pathetic franchise created by a Pathetic company.

Its popular with the kiddies because of official logos and teams....nothing more.

Bottom Line.

[elgreazy1]

Well, I'll strongly disagree with you. Having been a member of OS, 2K's official forums & 2Kfootballstrategy forums since the game came out I can recall countless times APF-faithful and opposition have complained about the lack of any sort of franchise mode; also go through the reviews and see how bad APF was blasted for lacking this game mode.

I agree with you on some fronts. Online is the new frontier as to where developers are focusing most of their efforts. And while I agree with you that the lack of the NFL license did hurt APF2K8 product, it was not the sole reason, some of which include: lack of community support/interaction by developers, lack of game modes & options, lack of full customization, stripped down presentation, no advertising, sinking a large amount of costs into signing Legends, creating a product that had a rushed development cycle, etc.

[DaveDQ]

Quote: Originally Posted by 2KVisual Concepts2K

El Greazy, The days of sitting in the dark in a room full of empty soda cans and having cheeto stained hands and controllers whilst playing the AI for thirty seasons are over. Online Play or the Highway IMHO Plus those type of gamers are the type 2K did not cater to and I personally don't blame them. Those guys need go back to Nintendo circa 1985 and STFU. The real reason it did not sell is the NFL License. Sadly, the sports gaming community nowadays is overran with commerically induced, Name Brand type skilless peons who are like fish waiting for the next hook from EA Marketing and Popular culture to take bite...smh These types don't care about the sport of football...these types just want to bomb it up with some "REAL" Player on a "REAL" Team...Uniforms, Logos and Names are all these types of gamers want....again and don't GAS about the quality of the game at all. If you look at Madden 11 videos and see that tron jogging, keystone cop movie movement, ice skating galore, no pocket, pathetic play by play and actually like the game compared to APF 2K8.......YOU HAVE SERIOUS ISSUES. Madden is a pathetic franchise created by a Pathetic company. Its popular with the kiddies because of official logos and teams....nothing more. Bottom Line.

I used to think that way, assuming online was where it's at, but there is nothing liking running through a well put together franchise where you don't have to worry about someone abusing the game to win and you can play when you want in how you want.

Offline franchise gaming is still a key component.

[blackceasar]

Quote: Originally Posted by 2KVisual Concepts2K

El Greazy, The days of sitting in the dark in a room full of empty soda cans and having cheeto stained hands and controllers whilst playing the AI for thirty seasons are over. Online Play or the Highway IMHO Plus those type of gamers are the type 2K did not cater to and I personally don't blame them. Those guys need go back to Nintendo circa 1985 and STFU. The real reason it did not sell is the NFL License. Sadly, the sports gaming community nowadays is overran with commerically induced, Name Brand type skilless peons who are like fish waiting for the next hook from EA Marketing and Popular culture to take bite...smh These types don't care about the sport of football...these types just want to bomb it up with some "REAL" Player on a "REAL" Team...Uniforms, Logos and Names are all these types of gamers want....again and don't GAS about the quality of the game at all. If you look at Madden 11 videos and see that tron jogging, keystone cop movie movement, ice skating galore, no pocket, pathetic play by play and actually like the game compared to APF 2K8.......YOU HAVE SERIOUS ISSUES. Madden is a pathetic franchise created by a Pathetic company. Its popular with the kiddies because of official logos and teams....nothing more. Bottom Line.

I 100% agree. I think sometimes people here (the real die hard football game fans) think with thier heart and not with thier head. Its all about targeted marketing. I know because I work in the advertising industry. The people here who don't care about an NFL license fail to realize the business aspect of it. Some people down inside think "well Id play a non NFL licensed game therefore there are millions and millions of others like me". Not true. Hard reality. If the average general market gamer only has 60 bucks to blow on a football game and one is NFL and one is NOT...the NFL game wins out probably 9 times out of 10.

I hope and pray 2k puts out another game, with the NFL license, and even if it isnt NFL I would be okay with that, HOWEVER if EA signs another deal with the NFL I don't expect to see a non-nfl 2k game just because it's not good business for them. What some of the emotional (i dont need an NFL game to like the game) just really cant understand is the business aspect of it. It costs A LOT of money to produce these games. You have to look at it like you do the music industry. Music artist get an advance from the record lable. Say its like 2 million dollars or whatever. They money is provied to them for recording costs, studio time, etc.. after the record is done, the record company has to RECOUP that 2 million dollars even before they start to make a profit...and some people here dont understand that making a game just to "break even" or turn a 2% profit is NOT good business sense.

Some people here don't want to here that. They get mad and flame you and they are in denial. All of these gaming companies are well...companies... companies exist to make money. Some make money off an inferior product (madden).. some make money off of a good product (NFL2k5)...but at the end of the day...its about making money.

[blackceasar]

Quote: Originally Posted by elgreazy1

And while I agree with you that the lack of the NFL license did hurt APF2K8 product, it was not the sole reason, some of which include: lack of community support/interaction by developers, lack of game modes & options, lack of full customization, stripped down presentation, no advertising, sinking a large amount of costs into signing Legends, creating a product that had a rushed development cycle, etc.

Honestly, APF could have been a complete football game with everything you wanted MINUS the NFL license and the game still would have bombed sales wise. Its not about all those left out features you are talking about. The game could have played flawlessly, with a franchise mode, online, etc and it wouldnt have mattered. Yes it would have made YOU happy but YOU and myself and most of the others on this board are not even 1% of the money that get's spent on football video games. Yes all those things would have helped but without the NFL license youre still only talking to people like you and me. I know you dont want to hear that, but thats the reality. Again, all those things u are complaining about what have made the game more enjoyable for you, but the general public still wouldnt have cared. Period.

[elgreazy1]

You seem to be straddling the fence of both arguments so you really aren't making any point whatsoever.

The game was enjoyable to me in every way and I don't know where you got the impression that it wasn't. Way to generalize me even though I've easily logged over 1500+ games of APF online not to mention having taken part in countless tournaments and online leagues. We squeezed out every thing we could from this game from NCAA to NFL to dynasty leagues to custom leagues - even one's where we created point system spreadsheets for team creation guidelines - to monetary based tournaments. Simply put, the game would have fared much better had they included what made 2K football stand out from the competition, but the devs felt the need to leave it out. They made one game, turned tail and ran off, even though APF outsold 2K's NHL game that year, yet 2K still felt compelled to keep with the NHL game franchise. Again, look back at the reviews - which regardless of what people say DO affect a game's sales - and see exactly where APF was lambasted by those sites.

2K football had a great fan-base following - it's almost cult like to this day - and plenty of word of mouth to have been able to make a splash with APF, but there were far too many mistakes by 2K/TT to help it succeed. Period. Simply putting out an APF2K9 or APF2K11 would have helped, but again, like I stated, the development team felt the need to completely turn it's back on the entire community. There was never any interaction after the first patch to the point where we - the 2K online forum community - had to hear through a forum moderator (Ronnie) that year 2 and year 3 weren't even in development cycles. Pretty sad.

So don't go telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. I've been playing this game since launch date and have interacted with far too many avid 2K football fans in my day to know I speak from experience.

[K_GUN]

if/when 2K gets the license back will be interesting

so much hype will be on that first title

how many times have we seen that in life......and the big, inevitable letdown that always follows.


star wars ep 1
matrix 2/3
halo 2/3
even APF