Rob Donald on Avault.com podcast

[mestevo]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

But clearly, they needed some outside input. When a play is called dead after you've been hit by your own man,

The only thing that frustrates me more than this, is there's no 'hurry up and get up' animation, if you fall to the ground during a live play, you get up at the speed you see fallen players get up during the replay or the end of a play. Very slowly, as if the play is over. It's another one of those 'so there really was no playtesting was there?' moments.

[TreFacTor]

For all of the good that BackBreaker is, sales for the game could have been increased if the devs just considered some of the suggestions from their own forum. Even if they wanted to stay light years away from Madden in comparison and in style, they were entering an area dominated by one entity so they were bound to be judged by both the success and failures of it's counter part. They could have maintain the individuality, and uniqueness that is BackBreaker without compromise merely by adding options that the competitor has or if not the same, equivalent. This way they could attract, not cater or bow to the players who have purchased the other football games.

I don't think they (the dev team) fully understood or grasped the area they were entering when they envisioned BackBreaker. They are after all European, and they know as much about football as the average american does about soccer. They may not have been looking to create a 100% complete recreation of the sport and instead just took the basics and thought their physics engine and camera could entice football fans to love the game. They didn't however calculate the love of the sport that football fans have coupled with the knowledge and complexity to understand the intricacies. I mean we have states where high school football is treated like the olympics. They didn't understand that the average football fan probably had a football in their hand before they could even write a complete sentence. Even the average football fan would be able to pick out the fundamental flaws made in BackBreaker, and even though they'd be able to overlook them, they are not forgivable.

I say it's not forgivable because the fans of the game even before it came out offered insight to the basics as well as the more detailed aspects of american football and even more to the point games created based off the sport. It didn't seem that 505 listened to any of it or they would have had a blockbuster hit, just read the reviews and the suggestions posts on their site. You can cross off any negative comment from any of the reviews had any serious consideration been taken to the suggestions of the community.

EXAMPLE GameSpot Review
"A frustrating passing system and an unpredictable running attack make marching down the field a chore, and the presentation leaves a lot to be desired. "

BackBreaker suggestion thread regarding presentation
http://forum.backbreakergame.com/sho...t=presentation

http://forum.backbreakergame.com/sho...hlight=rushing
http://forum.backbreakergame.com/sho...hlight=rushing

http://forum.backbreakergame.com/sho...hlight=passing
http://forum.backbreakergame.com/sho...hlight=passing


They didn't listen, and the game is performing poorly and from the sounds of it BB2 may be "casket sharp" awaiting an obituary.

[TracerBullet]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

When a play is called dead after you've been hit by your own man, all you can do is feel bad for them and the choices they made in the overly secret environment they chose to cloak this game in while developing it.

Most frustrating part about this game and the reason I got tired of it when I rented it. Litereally about half of my runs (maybe more) ended becasue of this very reason. I hope they make a Backbreaker 2, but they need to take a couple yer and take some tips from the community when making it.

[sparkyiii2k]

The problem with taking the tips from the community is it ends becoming a let's make a Madden clone so I ask you if you were to re-make BackBreaker and try to maintain its own idenity how would you approach it

[TreFacTor]

Quote: Originally Posted by sparkyiii2k

The problem with taking the tips from the community is it ends becoming a let's make a Madden clone so I ask you if you were to re-make BackBreaker and try to maintain its own idenity how would you approach it

How do you think car companies stay competitive with each other? How does Nike compete with Reebok? How does Kellogg compete with General Mills.... it's simple they all stay competitive with each other by offering similar products.

BackBreaker whether the devs wanted to admit it or not, is in direct competition with Madden and NCAA. There is no denying it. Those are the key players in the Market, and BackBreaker, in order to succeed needed to be familiar to it's core demographic. It needed to have enough to draw in the crowd that both Madden and NCAA garner on a consistent basis. Yes BB did have the fundamentals, an awesome physics engine, and extremely detailed customization tool, but where it failed was in the familiarity department.

BackBreaker out of the gate appealed to a small group of people. Those who regardless of name, license, and company, were so tired of Madden and EA that they would by any football game not named Madden or NCAA, and not made by EA. You would think that the numbers would be staggering, but that's actually a pretty small group of people. Natural Motion and 505 didn't consider that people are creatures of habit and we do what is familiar more than straying from the norm.

How do you compete with the king while maintaining your individuality especially when the king is popular and has a loyal following? You offer everything the king stands for while improving on his ideals. BackBreaker could have simply offered options that fans of Madden were familiar with while offering their rendition or take on the game of football. They could have read through the forums here or over at EA, and learned what not to do. They could have even studied NFL 2K5 and taken pointers from them in the presentation area. Hell simply getting that area better than Madden would have netted at least 50,000 purchases alone.

You have got to admire them for sticking to their guns and producing their brand and vision of American football but at the same time you've got to shake your head in disbelief at some of the decisions they made in the overall design and execution.:

BTW if they had taken advice from the community they would have sold way more games than 38,000 in the US so far.... Don't expect the Soccer loving European launch to elevate it's sales numbers either.

Madden 09 sold over 700,000 in the US in it's first week, it only sold 10,000 in Europe.
Madden 10 sold 575,000 in the US in it's first week, it only sold 9,000 in Europe

Those numbers are for the 360 version of the game, but the numbers for the PS3 version (which is more popular in Europe ) are eerily similar, the data doesn't lie.

[RaiderKtulu]

Quote: Originally Posted by TreFacTor

How do you compete with the king while maintaining your individuality especially when the king is popular and has a loyal following? You offer everything the king stands for while improving on his ideals. [/b]

How exactly does that maintain any individuality at all? You really think that a "look at us, we're a Madden clone but better!" approach would have really done anything?

We already had a Madden-like unlicensed game released - it was called All Pro Football 2k8, and no one supported it either.

You can't compete with Madden. Period. It's just too culturally entrenched. By being a Madden clone, they pick up the angry anti-EA crowd, but that's pretty much it. Sure, maybe they hit 100k sales instead of 50k... but whatever. A Madden fan isn't going to bother with an unlicensed game that's just like Madden. By being something different, there was at least a chance that they could get Madden fans and casual football fans, and not just those who hate EA. God forbid someone might actually play both games - Madden for a TV Broadcasted NFL experience, and Backbreaker for an on-the-field game with whatever fantasy teams you can dream of. Of course, instead everyone's just making NFL logos and complaining.

The "football gaming community" is far too stubborn and close-minded.

[mestevo]

Quote: Originally Posted by sparkyiii2k

The problem with taking the tips from the community is it ends becoming a let's make a Madden clone so I ask you if you were to re-make BackBreaker and try to maintain its own idenity how would you approach it

- The camera blinds you, rather than simulating awareness, move it back several more feet, and elevate it several feet. You don't have to be able to see the entire field, but you should be able to see your entire offensive line. We also don't professionally play football or practice for a week before every game, we are not trained to see over the line, so this simply doesn't work and turns people off. If you want it tied to awareness then the less focus or the more rattled a QB is the tighter the camera gets... with completions and running the ball restoring focus/confidence. Provide options, not replacements, for the camera view, so the people who have tried so hard to like the game and are used to it as-is aren't forced into something new.

- Introduce the most robust set of sliders ever seen in a football game. My biggest fear is the guys that gave us this game in what many see as a broken interception-ridden/computer-only-passes-left state will break it in new ways we never imagined.

- Add weight to the players

Those 3 changes would make this a pretty good game in my eyes, but they're all too big for a patch . They are just from a gameplay perspective, it has bigger problems with the season modes as well, which is what keeps many people playing past the release month.

If you really want to make waves, tack on Kinect support.

[elgreazy1]

Quote: Originally Posted by mestevo

If you really want to make waves, tack on Kinect support.

Just no.