Boxing Off-Topic

[pietasterp]

Quote: Originally Posted by pk500

Another overrated PBC fighter. I get the guy was hurt, but he says he wants to take all of 2019 as a "comeback year" after nearly two years out of the ring. Thurman's nickname isn't a reference to his supposed power -- it's a dig on how many times he fights each year.

Yeah, it's sort of hard to know what to make of fighters now that they're all so entrenched in their own promotional camps and it's rare to see guys fight the best in their division these days. Having said that, Thurman has wins over Danny Garcia (close decision) and Shawn Porter, which I think are quality wins. But being suspicious of PBC guys is a reasonable standpoint at this point, IMO.

Thurman was slick early, but definitely was in serious trouble due to Lopez's persistent pressure and go-for-broke style. I think that was a good win but also showed how vulnerable Thurman is. I get that he was off for 2 years, and I expected a competitive fight since Lopez is a good solid fighter, but he was pretty close to getting stopped for a short time there. He's going to have to fight more to be convincing going forward.

Also, since this is technically the boxing catch-all "off topic" thread, I always wonder: how do pro boxers support themselves (financially) when they are not fighting for extended periods of time? Like, how can you go 2 years without paycheck and still maintain any quality of life? Presumably the promotions give the fighters a relatively steady stream of income, but I always wondered how guys can take that long off of their job and still be financially solvent.

[pk500]

Quote: Originally Posted by pietasterp

Also, since this is technically the boxing catch-all "off topic" thread, I always wonder: how do pro boxers support themselves (financially) when they are not fighting for extended periods of time? Like, how can you go 2 years without paycheck and still maintain any quality of life? Presumably the promotions give the fighters a relatively steady stream of income, but I always wondered how guys can take that long off of their job and still be financially solvent.

Thurman made $1.4 million for the Porter fight and $2 million for the Garcia fight. A dude has a serious problem if he can't live off $3.4 million for two years, even after paying his trainer, cut man and manager.

Lower-level fighters don't have that luxury. That's why they fight often or don't live lavish lifestyles.

I'm almost positive fighters receive signing bonuses when they align themselves with a major promoter like Top Rank, Golden Boy or PBC. It's a lot like when a top baseball prospect signs out of high school. He won't make jack in Class A ball, but he usually receives a hefty signing bonus.

For example, I'm guessing Shakur Stevenson received a nice signing bonus from Top Rank even though his initial purses when he first turned pro after the Olympics were about $20,000 per fight.

[pietasterp]

Quote: Originally Posted by pk500

Thurman made $1.4 million for the Porter fight and $2 million for the Garcia fight. A dude has a serious problem if he can't live off $3.4 million for two years, even after paying his trainer, cut man and manager. Lower-level fighters don't have that luxury. That's why they fight often or don't live lavish lifestyles. I'm almost positive fighters receive signing bonuses when they align themselves with a major promoter like Top Rank, Golden Boy or PBC. It's a lot like when a top baseball prospect signs out of high school. He won't make jack in Class A ball, but he usually receives a hefty signing bonus. For example, I'm guessing Shakur Stevenson received a nice signing bonus from Top Rank even though his initial purses when he first turned pro after the Olympics were about $20,000 per fight.

Makes sense, I'm just never sure how much gets raked by promotion, manager, trainer, etc. Let's say he grossed $3.4 Million prior to his 2 year layoff, and 40% of that went to Al Haymon, his fight team, and the myriad other expenses which come with being a top level fighter. (I think 40% is actually conservative, but then I will freely admit I've never seen a top-level fighter's financial statements.)

So he's putting $2-million in his account, but since that counts as ordinary income, 40% of that is going to the federal gub'mint, so that leaves him with ~1.2-Mil. So yeah, that's more than enough to live a very upscale lifestyle anywhere in the country for 2 years, but at ~$600k/year, not NBA-baller level either. Nevertheless, I suppose that answers my question.

The one that also sticks in my mind is the Mikey Garcia 2.5+ year layoff, because to my knowledge he wasn't in that many super-high-profile fights prior to his layoff, and presumably his deal with Top Rank was really raking him over the coals otherwise he wouldn't have sacrificed prime years of his career to get out of it. Although one assumes that given the family's high-profile involvement in boxing, he was never going to be out on the street no matter what.

[JayBee74]

Two fighters I overrated were Matthysse and Thurman.

It's been over five years and seven fights since "One-Time" has knocked anybody out.

[pietasterp]

Quote: Originally Posted by JayBee74

Two fighters I overrated were Matthysse and Thurman. It's been over five years and seven fights since "One-Time" has knocked anybody out.

Wow, I didn't realize it had been that long. He should probably change his nickname at this point.

Matthysse I think is a different story, because 2 of his 3 losses before his clear decline (after he got into his early 30's) were very close, highly debatable/controversial decisions to Zab Judah and Devon Alexander. He otherwise fought (and beat) a good mix of quality fighters, so I'm not sure he was overrated. I do think by the time he got to be a big name, it was a little late in the game for him unfortunately, so his "peak" was a bit short.

[JayBee74]

Quote: Originally Posted by pietasterp

Wow, I didn't realize it had been that long. He should probably change his nickname at this point. Matthysse I think is a different story, because 2 of his 3 losses before his clear decline (after he got into his early 30's) were very close, highly debatable/controversial decisions to Zab Judah and Devon Alexander. He otherwise fought (and beat) a good mix of quality fighters, so I'm not sure he was overrated. I do think by the time he got to be a big name, it was a little late in the game for him unfortunately, so his "peak" was a bit short.

Still he "seemingly" had the power to close the deal in those debatable fights and couldn't. His best fight was against Lamont Peterson. I was surprised he couldn't beat Danny Garcia. You make good points though.

[pk500]

I'm not sure Matthysse ever was considered a truly elite welterweight. I always thought the boxing world perceived him accurately -- a tough-as-hell gatekeeper for all of the true giants of the division and a guy who brought it in every bout. Matthysse rarely was in a dull fight and would take two to throw one.

Same with Maidana.

[JayBee74]

Quote: Originally Posted by pk500

I'm not sure Matthysse ever was considered a truly elite welterweight. I always thought the boxing world perceived him accurately -- a tough-as-hell gatekeeper for all of the true giants of the division and a guy who brought it in every bout. Matthysse rarely was in a dull fight and would take two to throw one. Same with Maidana.

All depends on how flexible you are with "elite". I think him and Garcia were considered the top 140 guys for about three years. For the most part, his losses to Judah and Alexander were considered as not happening. In any event, his upset loss to Postol exposed him and the fractured orbital bone he suffered in that fight took too much out of him.