NCAA Football 10 Blog: Season Showdown: Show Your Skills

[rhombic21]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

but we've heard of the gameplay improvements (pocket forming, OL/DL interaction, pursuit angles, amongst others). I just don't see how adding something like SS automatically equates to arcade gameplay.

It doesn't. But let's talk about the evidence from the video as to whether these gameplay improvements that we've been promised are actually going to be delivered. So far, they are mere promises, which does not equal an actual improvement.

The biggest issue that I have can best be illustrated by what happens at the 1:52 mark of the youtube video that was in the blog post. If you watch, there's a corner blitz, and the corner has a free run at the QB. An offensive linemen, who is on the other side of the QB, attempts to come back and block the corner at the last minute. Somehow he manages to barely beat the CB to the spot (he's literally less than 1 foot from the QB when he engages the CB), but the CB's momentum is stopped entirely, and the QB is able to get off the pass untouched. The QB actually steps in front of the block, so there is nobody physically between him and the CB, who is now engaged in a grapple animation with the offensive lineman, who is now positioned upfield from the QB. This is a perfect example of the type of pass rush interaction issues that remain, and which should have been addressed by now. In real life, this is a sack, or at least an attempted sack, every single time. On the game, the offensive linemen is magically able to pull a defensive player into his force field, and prevent him from disengaging to pursue the quarterback, even when the quarterback is positioned less than 1 foot away from him, with no blockers in between. It is impossible for a defensive player to attempt a tackle animation on a ballcarrier while an offensive player is attempting to block him. Instead, he must first break out of the block animation, and then try to access a tackle animation. As opposed to having the ability for an offensive player to be pushing on a defensive player, who is essentially ignoring the blocker and attempting to reach out and tackle a ballcarrier. If an offensive player officially engages in a block animation, the defensive player gets locked into trying to beat that animation, and cannot do anything else until the animation has played out.

Also, I notice that many of the scenes that they have to illustrate a pass rush/sack are actually screen passes, which is where a huge chunk of your sacks against the CPU already came last year. On one of the plays where they user rush with a DE and force a fumble/INT, you can see that the CPU DT actually makes a nice move to split two linemen and get penetration, which is suggestive of a better pass rush, but then if you look at the videos where they are not user controlling the defensive line, there doesn't appear to be any real pressure on the QB at all. This leads me to question whether the CPU controlled linemen will be able to generate any improved pass rush over what we saw last year, if the user isn't controlling a defensive linemen.

Also, I don't see the improved man coverage that we've been promised. In many of these plays, the defense is in press man coverage (sometimes cover 2, sometimes cover 1), and receivers are still fairly easily beating their man to the inside. If you look at the first play of the video, virtually every receiver (except for the back out of the backfield) beats his individual defender. The drag by X is open by several yards when the ball is thrown, and it looks like they were even in some type of double team defense on him, based on the way that the safety follows him across the field. #17, who looks like a TE based on alignment, pretty easily destroys an impact cornerback on a simple skinny post route. Had there not been safety help over the deep middle, he would have been wide open.

With the videos using Ohio State against Illinois, there are several plays where receivers very easily get inside separation against man defenders. And there doesn't appear to be any evidence of less accurate throws on the part of the QBs.

And on one of the screen passes, the HB is wide open, as nobody at all on the defense is guarding the screen (about the :55 mark), and the QB still eats the ball for a sack! What?

At this point, it looks to me like NCAA 10 will be a glorified patch of '09 + teambuilder + a largely worthless Season Showdown Feature + (hopefully) improved playbooks.

I see some gameplay improvements that should make a positive difference, but I don't see any revolutionary improvements to things like run blocking AI, special teams play, or general defensive logic. I'm not convinced that they've actually made that many changes to OL/DL interactions, other than having the DEs rush wider by default, and including steering technology. I don't see anything about stunts or better animations for interior linemen to create penetration and push up the middle, and on the offensive side I don't see triple option schemes, more effective trap/counter schemes, or better logic for lead blockers, such as fullbacks and pulling guards. And I largely still see the same "sumo wrestle" grapple animations and suction blocking issues that have hindered line play forever.

And it looks like it will not only NOT have a play editor/creator, but it also won't even have a more basic custom playbook feature that was on NCAA '05.

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

It doesn't. But let's talk about the evidence from the video as to whether these gameplay improvements that we've been promised are actually going to be delivered. So far, they are mere promises, which does not equal an actual improvement.

You're right, promises don't equal improvement, but for me at least, nor does it equal failure.

The things they've said are in the game will stay a promise until I get to play the game. Until then, its just a video to look at and enjoy and promises. Nothing more, nothing less.

[WisconsinSports414]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

actually whats pathetic is people feeling the need to make those who purchase the game feel bad for doing so. People buying the game isn't the issue. Devs who love a sport and decide to go into the occupation of making a video game of that sport, should care enough to make it the best representation of said sport given their resources. And I'm willing to bet that there are far more casual sports gamers out there than hardcore. And I say that because I don't believe that a vast majority of the purchasers of this game, would refuse to purchase due to OL/DL interaction not being realistic enough, formation subs being omitted, or a feature they won't use being in the game. Most people, I would say, purchase this game because its a college football game that does a pretty good job of representing the sport in terms of teams, bowls, a dynasty mode, online dynasty, online rankings, and a fairly fun game to boot. Maybe it doesn't have all the x's and o's pinpointed, but thats not going to stop the vast majority of fans of the series, from purchasing the title year in and year out. .02

I wasn't trying to make the person feel bad or insult him, so I apologize if that's how I came off. I personally just can't understand how someone can constantly complain about a product (with due justification), point all of the things wrong with the product/company and yet, still go out to buy said product. It just does not make any sense to me at all. Also, what you guys fail to understand is that the developers don't owe you a thing. They are just part of another big corporation that is out to make money. I know this, and you this, yet people continue to reward them. Why do you think that the NCAA devs have been all but invisible on these forums? There is no reason to change things when people will still go out and buy it. And yeah, I agree with you - the vast majority who buy these football games don't care about realistic football. The sim crowd is in the minority, and even most of THEM will still buy the games! Why would EA change anything? You are being naive if you think these people care more about pleasing some random guy on a forum than meeting their quotas and filling their pockets. I myself have no real qualms with the game, and I plan on renting it. I just don't get this whole love/hate relationship people have with EA every year, when they know they're gonna but their products and keep on feedin' em.

[rhombic21]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

You're right, promises don't equal improvement, but for me at least, nor does it equal failure. The things they've said are in the game will stay a promise until I get to play the game. Until then, its just a video to look at and enjoy and promises. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not saying that it equals failure either, but to me, if we're going to count these things as huge benefits that outweigh the disappointment in not getting some of the features that we want, then we should at least be demanding evidence to show that they are actually going to work out. This isn't the first time that EA has promised gameplay improvements, and in the past they have a less than stellar record of coming through. Given that many of the initial video releases cast serious doubt about the extent to which these promises will be delivered on, I think it is quite reasonable for people to be skeptical.

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

I'm not saying that it equals failure either, but to me, if we're going to count these things as huge benefits that outweigh the disappointment in not getting some of the features that we want, then we should at least be demanding evidence to show that they are actually going to work out. This isn't the first time that EA has promised gameplay improvements, and in the past they have a less than stellar record of coming through. Given that many of the initial video releases cast serious doubt about the extent to which these promises will be delivered on, I think it is quite reasonable for people to be skeptical.

I never called them a huge benefit. People were stating how gameplay wasn't being improved while they were expressing their disappointment in Season Showdown. I was just reiterating that gameplay has been at least worked on. How good those improvements are will remain to be seen.

Nobody is saying that its unreasonable for people to be skeptical. I was just trying to remind people that had seem to have forgotten, that gameplay was in some way, shape, or form addressed this year.

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by WisconsinSports414

Also, what you guys fail to understand is that the developers don't owe you a thing. They are just part of another big corporation that is out to make money. I know this, and you this, yet people continue to reward them.

You're right, they don't owe us anything. But that hasn't stopped people from being demanding on these forums. And how are people rewarding them? I'm willing to bet that a vast majority of the people that are buying the game see no major issues with it. They are having fun with a college football game.

Quote: Originally Posted by WisconsinSports414

Why do you think that the NCAA devs have been all but invisible on these forums?

Why do I think? Well, its crunch time for them I would suppose. So my guess is that they are trying to put all the finishing touches on the game. I have no idea why they are not here. But Adam was here last year when the poop hit the fan after release, no reason to think he, or others, won't be on here post release again this year.

[WisconsinSports414]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

You're right, they don't owe us anything. But that hasn't stopped people from being demanding on these forums. And how are people rewarding them? I'm willing to bet that a vast majority of the people that are buying the game see no major issues with it. They are having fun with a college football game.

Ah. See, I'm not bashing people who genuinely enjoy the game. I myself enjoy the game overall. I don't think they're terrible by any stretch, and feel that they are close to being truly great. I am referring to people who claim to hate the game and everything that EA stands for, yet still buy it. The folks that will be out on release day to pick apart all of the flaws as they did last year..and the year before that. The folks who would accuse those who actually like the game of "not knowing football" or not being "true football fans".

[rhombic21]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

I was just reiterating that gameplay has been at least worked on. How good those improvements are will remain to be seen.

With all due respect, that's a pretty meaningless statement.