Crucial simulation aspect that’s missing from FIFA

[BrianFifaFan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yeats

You make some great points Brian and you're no doubt spot on with your "balancing act" observations and comments. That said, I never enjoyed the default gameplay, right from day one. Within an hour of first playing FIFA 12, I was busy editing and lowering players' speed and agility ratings, which IMO are crazy over-the-top. I really like many aspects of the game, but I honestly don't feel the developers are trying to find a balance between fun and simulation. Or, if they are, then they're failing badly at it IMO. The game is fun. But it's not close to a simulation.

I've never said that it was close to a simulation. But I think that what the team has always tried to do is capture the "wow" moments of football/soccer and make them more condensed. Don't get me wrong. I'm used to watching a match or Fox Soccer Report and seeing the beauty of a 1-0 thriller and even a 0-0 draw that was full of "almosts." But I don't think that translates well to a videogame. It would be great to have that header or dribbler in the 86th off of a free kick or finally getting that penalty call, but would that be fun for the average consumer? That's where I feel the balancing comes in. Every match I can score, if I'm on my game. And I want to score. I think that's where they have to tread that really fine line.

Like hockey, it can be a grind, if not programmed to allow for space to score. You want to bring the fan into loving the game and the sport by giving them the illusion of their efforts having made a world class goal. If the D where like real soccer, it would be more of an accident to score for the average user. Like I said, they can turn the screws down as guys get better. I always liked the AI reminders in the older titles, that came up if you were too dominant at a level. Maybe Fifa needs to have a built in AI booster that turns the screws as you pile up the wins? I'm kind of hoping that Fifa does turn up the default defensive AI, not through aggressiveness, but through better/more realistic spacing/positioning. Especially seeing as they have added the mini-games. Maybe that could help them to cover a possible learning curve with the controls/soccer fundamentals, thereby allowing them to make the game closer to "sim" out of the box.

All that said, I don't think you'll ever see Fifa going totally "sim," as in needing the perfect 1 timer to hit the man cutting in the box. It's not what Fifa's about. They didn't add all of those celebrations for 1-nil affairs!

[Yeats]

Quote: Originally Posted by BrianFifaFan

I've never said that it was close to a simulation. But I think that what the team has always tried to do is capture the "wow" moments of football/soccer and make them more condensed. Don't get me wrong. I'm used to watching a match or Fox Soccer Report and seeing the beauty of a 1-0 thriller and even a 0-0 draw that was full of "almosts." But I don't think that translates well to a videogame. Like hockey, it can be a grind, if not programmed to allow for space to score.

Again, you make great points and I see where you're coming from. I really do like the game for the fun factor. And just like EA's hockey series, I think it's clear there's not really much of an attempt to imitate the pacing and nuances of the actual sport, and for the reasons you mention. So all I can say is I'm happy with FIFA 12 from now until whenever (if ever) EA decides to deepen the sim aspect of the series. I just don't see the point in upgrading to the latest version otherwise. I can have a ton of fun with FIFA 12 any old time.

[eyeamg0dly]

i dunno i really dont think they need to dumb down games. i use mlb the show as my example. the game is hard. even with slider tweaks, if you dont know the basics, it is still hard. despite that though, it is imo the best sports title out on the market year after year. one minute you are pulling your hair out and the next minute you are jumping for joy. you can tell the developers of the show really went above and beyond with their efforts.

it is something i wish all sports games should strive for. i really like fifa and would love to see them go more sim like. i know it is hard but it isnt impossible either. they should set the bar high.

[Yeats]

Quote: Originally Posted by eyeamg0dly

i dunno i really dont think they need to dumb down games. i use mlb the show as my example. the game is hard. even with slider tweaks, if you dont know the basics, it is still hard.

Completely agree, and great example with The Show. I accept this is an EA Sports offering, and they're not really known for putting out hardcore simulation sports games. FIFA is fun absolutely, and from that perspective it's a very good game.

But where I draw the line as far as my expectations go, is when I see that a game has been intentionally dumbed down in such a way that the realism aspect has been sacrificed for no apparent reason other than to create an arcade, "fun" video game experience. There's simply no reason why I shouldn't be able to bring several players back into my box to help defend if I'm trying to hold a late lead, for example. That's part of real-life football strategy, and it absolutely should be part of the video game experience. But FIFA doesn't allow that. Rather, the game has sacrificed basic strategic realism in order to create more offence, more shots and more goals, that's the bottomline.

Using The Show as an analogy, it would be like preventing the User from shifting his infield to double play depth when the CPU gets a runner on first base, in order to artifically jack up the probability that more runs will be scored. Shifting your infield is basic, real-life baseball strategy, and it would be ludicrous if it wasn't a part of the video game version.

[Qb]

I agree, defensive spacing is off. With default settings, there is far too much room between lines, particularly around 25-30m from goal. It can be improved somewhat by adjusting the line length/width/height sliders. However, overall movement, spacing, and flow of play are too rigid. Again, sliders help somewhat (raising run freq & marking), but they're not a panacea. I'm frustrated by how rigid, or maybe stagnant, the game feels when I play an online match against a friend.

[DemiGodzillla]

There's just about nothing tactically inside the game of football that is represented correctly in this game, especially not default settings fresh out of the box. Not positioning, marking, tempo, movement or much of anything.

It seems to be programmed like this purposely to allow more goals in a shorter time span, which is the definition of "arcade" in my book.

[Yeats]

Quote: Originally Posted by DemiGodzillla

There's just about nothing tactically inside the game of football that is represented correctly in this game, especially not default settings fresh out of the box. Not positioning, marking, tempo, movement or much of anything. It seems to be programmed like this purposely to allow more goals in a shorter time span, which is the definition of "arcade" in my book.

LOL. I didn't want to come out and say it that way, however...

To be fair, the game does do a number of things quite well. But you're correct: tactically, the game bears little relationship to real football. It appears to be programmed for one purpose: to ensure there are plenty of shots and goals. Making sure you only have four defenders helping you quell the CPU's attack when in your box is one way they accompish that, for example.