How about a balanced combo vs. block system?

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sivo

How many hardcore fans are there that play games? If u look at the ppv numbers there just isnt the hardcore audience that some ppl believe there is. The majority of fans who watch mma watch it for the knockouts and wars and i assume this is why the game is geared around them. They could make the most realistic mma game ever but i can guarantee the sales would be that low that it would be the last of the series. MMA isnt that big of a sport so it has to appeal the casual audience and i truly believe having a game where u can only throw 20-40 punches a round or someone can force an outside fight by just pushing backwards or at an angle the entire fight will kill of whats left of the casual playerbase especially online. The hadrcore audeince might grow a little bit but that will be far outweighed by not having enough casual players online or buying the next one in the series.

Again, I ask you, when hardcore or casual fans yet to buy the game see that 9 out of 10 of the gameplay videos are fights were players are effortlessly fighting like it's Killer Instinct...do you really believe that generates more customers? Judging by most comments I see from people who haven't even played the game, they're completely turned off by seeing a style like Kenetic described that he plays. They actually mock the fact that it's so fast paced.



Let's be realistic, intentionally made arcade sports games like NFL Blitz & NBA Jam are on the back burn now and trying to reemerge every 4 or 5 years for only $20 on PSN or Live because it's not what people want and doesn't have a long shelf life. The originals hold some nostalgia and are good for the gaming party environment, but they can only last so long, a realistic sim experience will always get the sales, accolades and longevity (unless licensing issues arise ).

[1212headkick]

What needs to happen is have massive boosts to outside fighting and massive boosts to being stuck against the cage. You will lose most fights as Stephen Thompson against s good player. I don’t mind losing to grapplers like Matty ice. He grapples in a realistic way. But to constantly lose to pressure fighters when I was div 7 in ufc 2 and an amazing outside fighter is a travesty

[1212headkick]

Hgrappling was needed outside fighting was nerf and parties as much as I hated them should be in the game to a small degree. The true counter to pressure is grappling and outside fighting they’ve been needed to where the game is nearly unplayable

[1212headkick]

Quote: Originally Posted by MartialMind

Most fights are pressure fights? Combo spam is the way to win? Because word on the streets is "Running" is the new Meta and we should infact buff aggression. You sure you don't just suck at the game and need to "Git Gud"? Sent from my MI MAX 2 using Operation Sports mobile app

Thanks for being a warrior for outside fighting

[Sivo]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheGentlemanGhost

Again, I ask you, when hardcore or casual fans yet to buy the game see that 9 out of 10 of the gameplay videos are fights were players are effortlessly fighting like it's Killer Instinct...do you really believe that generates more customers? Judging by most comments I see from people who haven't even played the game, they're completely turned off by seeing a style like Kenetic described that he plays. They actually mock the fact that it's so fast paced. Let's be realistic, intentionally made arcade sports games like NFL Blitz & NBA Jam are on the back burn now and trying to reemerge every 4 or 5 years for only $20 on PSN or Live because it's not what people want and doesn't have a long shelf life. The originals hold some nostalgia and are good for the gaming party environment, but they can only last so long, a realistic sim experience will always get the sales, accolades and longevity (unless licensing issues arise ).

I haven't seen any comments from ppl saying they dislike the game style who havent played the game so i guess my view point is correct? U cant use i have seen this and that as an argument because we all have confirmation bias's. I just dont believe making a MMA sim game will sell anywhere near enough copies for us to get another. What proof does anyone have that an actual simulation mma game will sell?

Just using ppv numbers as a guide there are only a couple of hundered thousand hardcore mma fans in the us and where i am (uk) u get UFC for free with your other subscriptions so they cant even sell ufc events as ppv's outside the us which should tell you all u need to know about the hardcore mma fan base.

FIfa/NBA and all the other sports sim games began as arcade games for years and years before they moved into simulation gameplay and these are the biggest sports in the world i just dont get where hardcore mma fans think the buys are coming from if they make a sim mma game.

Dont believe the hype the UFC sells u. Just becuase they say the UFC is huge or a fighter is massive in a country, doesnt mean its true, UFC is a niche sport with a small audience(might be a big US audeince but a small rest of the world audience) and i have just as little belief that a hardcore mma simulation will sell well as u seem to have that it will.

edit: It not what the sim ppl want to hear but i worry the game may already be too sim/complex for a casual audience to just pick up and enjoy it and making it more sim/more layers of complexity will just add to the problems.

[Phillyboi207]

You’re assuming PPV buys represent the entire fanbase

UFC doesn well with ticket sales and a lot of hardcore people go to sports bars / stream events as well.

The main complaints of the game were the head movement and constant pressure from what I’ve seen. People are always complaining about “spam”

The controls turned people off because it’s completely different from last year not necessarily that much more complex.

The meta at release was nothing like real life and that also turned a lot of people off. Hell if I didnt come to this forum and wasnt aware of how good the Devs are I would’ve gave up myself.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sivo

I haven't seen any comments from ppl saying they dislike the game style who havent played the game so i guess my view point is correct? U cant use i have seen this and that as an argument because we all have confirmation bias's. I just dont believe making a MMA sim game will sell anywhere near enough copies for us to get another. What proof does anyone have that an actual simulation mma game will sell? Just using ppv numbers as a guide there are only a couple of hundered thousand hardcore mma fans in the us and where i am (uk) u get UFC for free with your other subscriptions so they cant even sell ufc events as ppv's outside the us which should tell you all u need to know about the hardcore mma fan base. FIfa/NBA and all the other sports sim games began as arcade games for years and years before they moved into simulation gameplay and these are the biggest sports in the world i just dont get where hardcore mma fans think the buys are coming from if they make a sim mma game. Dont believe the hype the UFC sells u. Just becuase they say the UFC is huge or a fighter is massive in a country, doesnt mean its true, UFC is a niche sport with a small audience(might be a big US audeince but a small rest of the world audience) and i have just as little belief that a hardcore mma simulation will sell well as u seem to have that it will. edit: It not what the sim ppl want to hear but i believe the game may already be too sim/complex for a casual audience to just pick up and enjoy it and making it more sim/more layers of complexity will just add to the problems. Not a popular view but this is my belief

Complexity does not equate to sim, the game play and features do. Also, earlier sports games were not built to be arcade, they simply lacked the resources back then, but they were made to be a representation of the real life sport. Besides the fact the technology wasn't there, the company's were dedicated to making a simulation of the sport and we played them because they were the closest thing to sim sports we had. There's only so much that could be done in a 16-64 bit system...

But if you chose to believe the arcade style is what sells, then name me some sports games that have lasted catering to the arcade style? NBA Live is still tailing 2k pretty badly, and Live is considered the more arcade brand. MLB the Show beat out every other baseball game on the market and it's definitely the most sim. So if you really wanna stand by that, give some real examples...who's making classic arcade sports games the public loves?

Have you even followed EA UFCs FB page? Whenever they post some video, it gets completely obliterated by negative comments from people with or without the game. The screenshots are just from a top 10 KOs post on their page. You can down play it if you want, but you were the one who said you never see these comments. It's not like I agree with just how negative these are, it's just for your reference. If the game looked and played out more sim, I'm pretty sure they'd have less comments like these though.

Spoiler

Screenshot_20180603-065018.jpgScreenshot_20180603-064920.jpgScreenshot_20180603-070049.jpgScreenshot_20180603-070014.jpg

But this myth that sports games need to revolve around casuals seems to have zero fact to it. Anyone that plays sports games, whether casual or hardcore, knows there's going to be some kind of learning curve. Which is why it's always good to have as many settings to cater to the players desired style. If you want an arcade experience, you should be able to do that with various settings, but I have yet to see a sports game fail from being too realistic.

Sent from my SM-J700P using Operation Sports mobile app

[MartialMind]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sivo

I haven't seen any comments from ppl saying they dislike the game style who havent played the game so i guess my view point is correct? U cant use i have seen this and that as an argument because we all have confirmation bias's. I just dont believe making a MMA sim game will sell anywhere near enough copies for us to get another. What proof does anyone have that an actual simulation mma game will sell? Just using ppv numbers as a guide there are only a couple of hundered thousand hardcore mma fans in the us and where i am (uk) u get UFC for free with your other subscriptions so they cant even sell ufc events as ppv's outside the us which should tell you all u need to know about the hardcore mma fan base. FIfa/NBA and all the other sports sim games began as arcade games for years and years before they moved into simulation gameplay and these are the biggest sports in the world i just dont get where hardcore mma fans think the buys are coming from if they make a sim mma game. Dont believe the hype the UFC sells u. Just becuase they say the UFC is huge or a fighter is massive in a country, doesnt mean its true, UFC is a niche sport with a small audience(might be a big US audeince but a small rest of the world audience) and i have just as little belief that a hardcore mma simulation will sell well as u seem to have that it will. edit: It not what the sim ppl want to hear but i worry the game may already be too sim/complex for a casual audience to just pick up and enjoy it and making it more sim/more layers of complexity will just add to the problems.

So your worry is that SIM would make the game more complex and that would kill off the CASUAL playerbase?

A few comments back you wrote this:

"MMA isnt that big of a sport so it has to appeal the casual audience and i truly believe having a game where u can only throw 20-40 punches a round or someone can force an outside fight by just pushing backwards or at an angle the entire fight will kill of whats left of the casual playerbase especially online."

Don't you think that's a bit contradictory?

My argument has always been that basic tactics should be defeated by basic tactics. That's SIM.

In real life, If a striker is constantly chasing me with combinations, he might be working harder by throwing, but he is using a basic pressure tactic and in real life, I can defeat that basic pressure tactic with a basic defensive tactic.... just moving away.

In the game though, aggressive players wanna be able to chase opponents down with combos but want the opponents to have to perform complicated defensive tasks to stay safe. That's what I disagree with and will always disagree with.

Chasing with combos only works on very stationary and flat footed fighters, fighters like Cowboy who will back up in a straight line, into the cage and just stay there... that's how he got run down by fighters like Nate Diaz, RDA, Jorge and Till. But "Chasing combos" can be dealt with by not backing up in a straight line, circling out, keeping that feet moving.... basic stuff. And that's how it should work in the game too.

To force a fighter to have to do more than just circle, a pressure fighter has to employ more advanced pressure tactics AND he needs to reduce his strike count.... but that is something you players REFUSE to do. Your argument? "It's boring".

It's not like the game doesn't give you tools to deal with counter strikers, you just don't wanna use those tools... You wanna use just ONE which is walk forward throwing combos, but you wanna force defensive players to use ALL their tools to stay safe.

How is that fair?

I'll let you respond before I continue.