Single collar entry a tad too fast/subtle

[Boiler569]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1212headkick

How is the clinch not realistic despite the fact it needs locomotion? I can tell you don’t practice. Please don’t complain about aspects of the game you don’t bother to improve.

I cracked top 100 this weekend, and got several finishes in the clinch .... I've put a good amount of hours into it ...

and it's definitely not realistic and needs a lot of help....

that said, the new damage from single collar strikes makes things 10x better! So that's a start.

But I don't buy your gitgud philosophy on this one...sure lots of people suck @ clinch and only bitch because they suck at it, but there are a lot of ppl who think clinch is (or at least was ) the absolute worst and most underdeveloped part of the franchise

Oh and did I mention how much I love single collar elbows?

[UFCBlackbelt]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boiler569

I cracked top 100 this weekend, and got several finishes in the clinch .... I've put a good amount of hours into it ... and it's definitely not realistic and needs a lot of help.... that said, the new damage from single collar strikes makes things 10x better! So that's a start. But I don't buy your gitgud philosophy on this one...sure lots of people suck @ clinch and only bitch because they suck at it, but there are a lot of ppl who think clinch is (or at least was ) the absolute worst and most underdeveloped part of the franchise Oh and did I mention how much I love single collar elbows?

yep, the clinch is probably the least touched up out of all items. It's almost hard to tell the difference between EA UFC 1 and 3 in terms of clinch changes. There's a lot of work to be done there, mainly in the movement. If we could simulate that, it would make it far more fun than what it currently is.

[Boiler569]

Definitely

I am hoping for some sort of Scramble Mechanics in UFC 4 ... to give players more control and options in the 'grey zone' between Striking and Grappling

In real MMA so many key moments in a fight are decided in the Grey Zone --- knockouts; reversals; takedowns; submission attempts --- so I really hope this is a major focus of any future title as it's the Glue that holds together Standing; Clinch; and Ground games, and it has the most room for improvement and cool new features/etc.

[Freshly Baked Gregg]

Maybe slow down the new animation and bring the denial window in line with the animation rather than having all this time after the end of the animation to deny?


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[ZombieRommel]

I agree with the OP. This is the first bit of critical feedback I gave to GPD after playing around with the patch. All the standup changes felt good, but the clinch animation change (which is in fact visual only) had the net effect of making SC almost undeniable. To the point of being unfair, where if someone wants you there, they're going to get you there no matter what.

Even if you sit on the deny, the clincher can still grab you during your own strikes. I've been sucked into SC several times DURING lead body hooks. It literally forced my fighter's arm (which was going to the body) to WARP up to the head to complete the single collar animation.

The clincher can initiate the SC at max range which will cause them to SLIDE unnaturally toward you like they are wearing rollerskates. The max range of it is bigger than you might imagine.

And the worst part is that if you miss the deny by a milisecond, then it gives the clincher GA in SC, allowing them a lightning transition to MT, where they can threaten with the head/body 1-off rock mixup, which ALL the cheesers do.

Now, for the time being, I've decided that it's not even worth pulling my hair out trying to sit on the deny, because sooner or later people will get it if they spam it enough, no matter how much you sit on the deny or how good your reactions are (mine are 97th percentile btw, according to the online test for it, and I'm using a gaming monitor with virtually no visual latency).

Instead, I've decided to just try to mitigate what people can do inside the clinch once they get it.

85-90% of players who spam for the clinch will do one of two things:
1. Immediately transition to muay thai
2. Sit on the low block, hoping you'll throw a body knee, so they can block it... and then transition to muay thai

So usually, the best thing you can do as someone who wants to stay out of the clinch is:
1. Sit on the MT deny (the side of your rear/power leg)
2. Hit the other guy in the head for GA and attempt a break
3. Do the single collar whip and then DON'T throw the knee (the knee consumes a large chunk of your own stamina and 99% of smart players block it for no damage)

Sometimes you will run into players running grapplers who will start layering more options into the first two, where they'll sometimes transition to O/U, and sometimes they'll shoot for power doubles that end up with a big slam and side control. This is when it truly gets stupid and unfair, because you have almost zero chance to deny the grappler the opportunity to enter into this powerful 4-5 way mixup game.

In a striker vs grappler scenario, this results in matchups becoming truly lopsided in favor of grapplers, even when there is a giant skill disparity in favor of the player using the striker.

Ronda Rousey is a good real life example of what happens when you spam the clinch at good strikers without a setup. You get bodied.

In the game, you'll just warp the other guy out of whatever strike he's throwing and suck him into you like a black hole. Lol.

Hopefully we can get this adjusted. I think anyone without bias can admit it's simply too fast/ambiguous right now. I have no desire to nerf the clinch into the ground, but it's way too good right now, just as the duck GA rocket double was, just as the initial ankle pick was.

[ryangil23]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZombieRommel

I agree with the OP. This is the first bit of critical feedback I gave to GPD after playing around with the patch. All the standup changes felt good, but the clinch animation change (which is in fact visual only) had the net effect of making SC almost undeniable. To the point of being unfair, where if someone wants you there, they're going to get you there no matter what. Even if you sit on the deny, the clincher can still grab you during your own strikes. I've been sucked into SC several times DURING lead body hooks. It literally forced my fighter's arm (which was going to the body) to WARP up to the head to complete the single collar animation. The clincher can initiate the SC at max range which will cause them to SLIDE unnaturally toward you like they are wearing rollerskates. The max range of it is bigger than you might imagine. And the worst part is that if you miss the deny by a milisecond, then it gives the clincher GA in SC, allowing them a lightning transition to MT, where they can threaten with the head/body 1-off rock mixup, which ALL the cheesers do. Now, for the time being, I've decided that it's not even worth pulling my hair out trying to sit on the deny, because sooner or later people will get it if they spam it enough, no matter how much you sit on the deny or how good your reactions are (mine are 97th percentile btw, according to the online test for it, and I'm using a gaming monitor with virtually no visual latency). Instead, I've decided to just try to mitigate what people can do inside the clinch once they get it. 85-90% of players who spam for the clinch will do one of two things: 1. Immediately transition to muay thai 2. Sit on the low block, hoping you'll throw a body knee, so they can block it... and then transition to muay thai So usually, the best thing you can do as someone who wants to stay out of the clinch is: 1. Sit on the MT deny (the side of your rear/power leg) 2. Hit the other guy in the head for GA and attempt a break 3. Do the single collar whip and then DON'T throw the knee (the knee consumes a large chunk of your own stamina and 99% of smart players block it for no damage) Sometimes you will run into players running grapplers who will start layering more options into the first two, where they'll sometimes transition to O/U, and sometimes they'll shoot for power doubles that end up with a big slam and side control. This is when it truly gets stupid and unfair, because you have almost zero chance to deny the grappler the opportunity to enter into this powerful 4-5 way mixup game. In a striker vs grappler scenario, this results in matchups becoming truly lopsided in favor of grapplers, even when there is a giant skill disparity in favor of the player using the striker. Ronda Rousey is a good real life example of what happens when you spam the clinch at good strikers without a setup. You get bodied. In the game, you'll just warp the other guy out of whatever strike he's throwing and suck him into you like a black hole. Lol. Hopefully we can get this adjusted. I think anyone without bias can admit it's simply too fast/ambiguous right now. I have no desire to nerf the clinch into the ground, but it's way too good right now, just as the duck GA rocket double was, just as the initial ankle pick was.

it looks almost like a jab to me. The way it looks keeps tricking me and I don't even realise it's a clinch.

[Freshly Baked Gregg]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZombieRommel

I agree with the OP. This is the first bit of critical feedback I gave to GPD after playing around with the patch. All the standup changes felt good, but the clinch animation change (which is in fact visual only) had the net effect of making SC almost undeniable. To the point of being unfair, where if someone wants you there, they're going to get you there no matter what. Even if you sit on the deny, the clincher can still grab you during your own strikes. I've been sucked into SC several times DURING lead body hooks. It literally forced my fighter's arm (which was going to the body) to WARP up to the head to complete the single collar animation. The clincher can initiate the SC at max range which will cause them to SLIDE unnaturally toward you like they are wearing rollerskates. The max range of it is bigger than you might imagine. And the worst part is that if you miss the deny by a milisecond, then it gives the clincher GA in SC, allowing them a lightning transition to MT, where they can threaten with the head/body 1-off rock mixup, which ALL the cheesers do. Now, for the time being, I've decided that it's not even worth pulling my hair out trying to sit on the deny, because sooner or later people will get it if they spam it enough, no matter how much you sit on the deny or how good your reactions are (mine are 97th percentile btw, according to the online test for it, and I'm using a gaming monitor with virtually no visual latency). Instead, I've decided to just try to mitigate what people can do inside the clinch once they get it. 85-90% of players who spam for the clinch will do one of two things: 1. Immediately transition to muay thai 2. Sit on the low block, hoping you'll throw a body knee, so they can block it... and then transition to muay thai So usually, the best thing you can do as someone who wants to stay out of the clinch is: 1. Sit on the MT deny (the side of your rear/power leg) 2. Hit the other guy in the head for GA and attempt a break 3. Do the single collar whip and then DON'T throw the knee (the knee consumes a large chunk of your own stamina and 99% of smart players block it for no damage) Sometimes you will run into players running grapplers who will start layering more options into the first two, where they'll sometimes transition to O/U, and sometimes they'll shoot for power doubles that end up with a big slam and side control. This is when it truly gets stupid and unfair, because you have almost zero chance to deny the grappler the opportunity to enter into this powerful 4-5 way mixup game. In a striker vs grappler scenario, this results in matchups becoming truly lopsided in favor of grapplers, even when there is a giant skill disparity in favor of the player using the striker. Ronda Rousey is a good real life example of what happens when you spam the clinch at good strikers without a setup. You get bodied. In the game, you'll just warp the other guy out of whatever strike he's throwing and suck him into you like a black hole. Lol. Hopefully we can get this adjusted. I think anyone without bias can admit it's simply too fast/ambiguous right now. I have no desire to nerf the clinch into the ground, but it's way too good right now, just as the duck GA rocket double was, just as the initial ankle pick was.

You hit the nail on the head so hard it shot through the Earth and came out the other side.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Phillyboi207]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZombieRommel

I agree with the OP. This is the first bit of critical feedback I gave to GPD after playing around with the patch. All the standup changes felt good, but the clinch animation change (which is in fact visual only) had the net effect of making SC almost undeniable. To the point of being unfair, where if someone wants you there, they're going to get you there no matter what. Even if you sit on the deny, the clincher can still grab you during your own strikes. I've been sucked into SC several times DURING lead body hooks. It literally forced my fighter's arm (which was going to the body) to WARP up to the head to complete the single collar animation. The clincher can initiate the SC at max range which will cause them to SLIDE unnaturally toward you like they are wearing rollerskates. The max range of it is bigger than you might imagine. And the worst part is that if you miss the deny by a milisecond, then it gives the clincher GA in SC, allowing them a lightning transition to MT, where they can threaten with the head/body 1-off rock mixup, which ALL the cheesers do. Now, for the time being, I've decided that it's not even worth pulling my hair out trying to sit on the deny, because sooner or later people will get it if they spam it enough, no matter how much you sit on the deny or how good your reactions are (mine are 97th percentile btw, according to the online test for it, and I'm using a gaming monitor with virtually no visual latency). Instead, I've decided to just try to mitigate what people can do inside the clinch once they get it. 85-90% of players who spam for the clinch will do one of two things: 1. Immediately transition to muay thai 2. Sit on the low block, hoping you'll throw a body knee, so they can block it... and then transition to muay thai So usually, the best thing you can do as someone who wants to stay out of the clinch is: 1. Sit on the MT deny (the side of your rear/power leg) 2. Hit the other guy in the head for GA and attempt a break 3. Do the single collar whip and then DON'T throw the knee (the knee consumes a large chunk of your own stamina and 99% of smart players block it for no damage) Sometimes you will run into players running grapplers who will start layering more options into the first two, where they'll sometimes transition to O/U, and sometimes they'll shoot for power doubles that end up with a big slam and side control. This is when it truly gets stupid and unfair, because you have almost zero chance to deny the grappler the opportunity to enter into this powerful 4-5 way mixup game. In a striker vs grappler scenario, this results in matchups becoming truly lopsided in favor of grapplers, even when there is a giant skill disparity in favor of the player using the striker. Ronda Rousey is a good real life example of what happens when you spam the clinch at good strikers without a setup. You get bodied. In the game, you'll just warp the other guy out of whatever strike he's throwing and suck him into you like a black hole. Lol. Hopefully we can get this adjusted. I think anyone without bias can admit it's simply too fast/ambiguous right now. I have no desire to nerf the clinch into the ground, but it's way too good right now, just as the duck GA rocket double was, just as the initial ankle pick was.

It should be fast and it shouldnt be stopped by rounded strikes. I think they should still land and do damage however.

I hope that if it gets nerfed it’s done in a realistic way. If you’re moving forward or throwing rounded strikes within punch range it should be easy for me to get you in O/U or single collar. If you’re moving backwards and using straight strikes that should make things more difficult.

Single collar itself is a really neutral position and as you listed you have many options for escaping. It shouldnt be difficult to obtain if you are both in the pocket.