Single collar entry a tad too fast/subtle

[jigsaw736]

I cracked top 7 this week.. and yes the clinch animation is to easy to get.

GG.

[RetractedMonkey]

The clinch should be subjected to the same movement based GA that takedowns are now. Moving forward should give them GA for single collar and even more if you manage to time the clinch with one of their strikes.

Other than that it should be difficult to clinch someone unless you’re near the cage. The only person that consistently gets the single collar in open space is DC and he has to manufacture scenarios to attain it. He doesn’t just grab after a jab or something.

It isn’t difficult to get a single grappling position in this game other than over/under for some reason. It never was difficult. There have always been little exploits or tricks to getting takedowns and clinches. The only complaints about getting grappling positions is from people horrible at standup AND grappling and think “if I could only get them to the ground then I would win”. But they are so bad they don’t realize it’s their terrible grappling that is preventing them from taking the fight there, not the gameplay mechanics.

The clinch has always been ridiculously one sided in favor of the guy who wants to grapple. They have so many more options whereas the striker only has two. You can either break the clinch or go MT and then break the clinch. Making it very predictable for the grappler. The grappler has all those options ZR stated before and once they enter into over/under, a good grappler will keep you there because of stat advantage. This is especially true for double unders. The break animation is so slow and it shares the same directional denial as one of the over/unders.

I’m going to come out and say it. The clinch is overpowered in this regard. I find the only people disagreeing with this are guys who aren’t good and guys who are grapplers only and have an agenda to keep this the way it is.

Not only is the clinch entirely unrealistic and misrepresented, the gameplay from there is a horribly imbalanced mess. You should have to maintain a positional advantage by backing your opponent up onto the cage to easily obtain the clinch. This open space grab-fest is atrocious.

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[RetractedMonkey]

And don’t get me wrong, you have a good chance to get out of single collar because of the speed of the break transition but once it goes any further than that it’s likely going to end up on the ground.


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[Boiler569]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZombieRommel

Even if you sit on the deny, the clincher can still grab you during your own strikes. I've been sucked into SC several times DURING lead body hooks. It literally forced my fighter's arm (which was going to the body) to WARP up to the head to complete the single collar animation.

arghhh

I HATE when my seemingly perfectly-timed uppercut is 'sucked into' a takedown or clinch attempt

I understand at some point the game has to decide when a strike should continue/land, and when the grappling/takedown should takeover....but the border between the two is quite fuzzy and I SWEAR I have had some devastating uppercuts lined-up perfectly, only to be sucked-in by clinch or takedown lol

Hopefully UFC 4 will get the hit detection & physics down to an even more detailed level to alleviate this type of thing. Would also love to see Clinch Breaks and Clinch Entries that include strikes! Not just Transitions!

[Phillyboi207]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetractedMonkey

The clinch should be subjected to the same movement based GA that takedowns are now. Moving forward should give them GA for single collar and even more if you manage to time the clinch with one of their strikes. This is genius and definitely should be implemented asap Other than that it should be difficult to clinch someone unless you’re near the cage. The only person that consistently gets the single collar in open space is DC and he has to manufacture scenarios to attain it. He doesn’t just grab after a jab or something. This just isnt true. People end up in clinches in open space all the time. Now the clinch in real life is much more fluid and isnt stagnant but it happens. The biggest thing is in real guys arent as aggressive as we see in game when facing a grappler. It isn’t difficult to get a single grappling position in this game other than over/under for some reason. It never was difficult. There have always been little exploits or tricks to getting takedowns and clinches. The only complaints about getting grappling positions is from people horrible at standup AND grappling and think “if I could only get them to the ground then I would win”. But they are so bad they don’t realize it’s their terrible grappling that is preventing them from taking the fight there, not the gameplay mechanics. Also not true considering plenty of high level players complain about the same. Unless you’re arguing that only the top 1% arent horrible I’m going to come out and say it. The clinch is overpowered in this regard. I find the only people disagreeing with this are guys who aren’t good and guys who are grapplers only and have an agenda to keep this the way it is. Or maybe there’s also an agenda for guys who want the game biased towards kickboxing. I wont argue against O/U or D/U. I think pummelling should be sped up. You should have to maintain a positional advantage by backing your opponent up onto the cage to easily obtain the clinch. This open space grab-fest is atrocious. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Sounds like you have an agenda yourself. The reason people usually push people against the fence to clinch is because in real life you’d be crazy to walk forward winging combos. To avoid grappling you have to maintain space. Strikers in this game want to be able to pressure/ blitz their opponents while simultaneous shutting down all grappling attempts.

You make a lot of good overall points but the clinch is certainly not difficult to obtain unless your opponent is consistently able to maintain range.

[RetractedMonkey]

I am most definitely claim only the top 10% of players are good. Top 100 means nothing. The skill disparity between the top 25 and the top 100 is almost as big as the top 100 and everyone else.

And no, the clinch is not obtained often in open space because they are easily shucked off. A fighter will clinch up and run the other fighter to the fence to maintain position.

You can say I have an agenda all you want but it doesn’t make it true. The truth is I can do any of the clinch stuff to everyone but the top grapplers. Someone who mindlessly pressures is someone who should be clinched easily, so clearly that isn’t my end game.


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[jigsaw736]

Top 100 lost its prestige 5 seasons ago.. Some people in the top 100 currently have 50-50 records.

I'd say Xbox only has 15 or so players that are what I can consider to be a "good".

Of those 15 .. only maybe 4-5 are elite grapplers.

If u guys watch esfl , you should see suspect's clinch it's honestly Really impressive

[Phillyboi207]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetractedMonkey

I am most definitely claim only the top 10% of players are good. Top 100 means nothing. The skill disparity between the top 25 and the top 100 is almost as big as the top 100 and everyone else. And no, the clinch is not obtained often in open space because they are easily shucked off. A fighter will clinch up and run the other fighter to the fence to maintain position. You can say I have an agenda all you want but it doesn’t make it true. The truth is I can do any of the clinch stuff to everyone but the top grapplers. Someone who mindlessly pressures is someone who should be clinched easily, so clearly that isn’t my end game. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

So I think we’re on the same page. Im not arguing that CONTROL of the clinch should happen in open space. But a fighter can and certainly will initiate the clinch in open space. Holding on to single collar in open space is difficult but grabbing someone isnt. Fighters do it all the time to get off a strike or two before the other fighter breaks free.

I wish movement in the clich affected GA for certain transitions. If im in single collar I should be able to pull away to speed up the break attempt.

Cant really say much else if you think only 25 players on each console are good lol.