ESFL 50 THOUGHTS ETC

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Minor observation I didn't know until I watched the fights that when someone has you pressed up against the cage you can hit them over the head while they try to transition to another take down or something else .

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[RomeroXVII]

Quote: Originally Posted by Good Grappler

So I just checked out the stream replay, and just watched a couple of the fights. Few things worth noting: 1) That guy who played Kenetic had the most insane denials I’ve ever seen. He was hitting denials that no one hits on reaction... I’m talking super obscure transition and even fakes. At first I thought it was luck, but it just kept happening. Like, you know those transitions and fakes from certain positions, where you just don’t even bother trying to deny it because it’s hopeless? Yeah... he was denying those transitions. After that initial exchange on the ground, I’m sure Kenetic was a bit puzzled by that. Kenetic did pretty much everything right, based upon the currently understood meta. Mixing up the timing, constant faking, occasionally commiting... but it just didn’t matter. I mean, I used to always think “what if some guy comes along, and he can just deny every transition, even fakes. It would shut down anyone’s ground game”. What this guy did against Kenetic was pretty much that. 2. Dmart’s performance against LemusKhan, specifically the way he went straight for transitions without faking or settling first. He was extremely active and ruthless. As soon as it hit the ground, he immediately transitioned to HG (no fakes or anything)... and he just maintained the pace from there. Then the constant submission attempts, and relentless positional advancing really asserted that “I’m here to grind” vibe. Very overwhelming playstyle. Lemuskhan never got a chance to get started or establish any type of rhythm... he was always reacting to what Dmart was doing. Also, I think LemusKhan’s multi-directional submission escape strategy is a flaw... he should stick to two directions *especially* in later gates when he’s already made some progress. But I digress. Overall, very interesting attack from Dmart, I was unaware immediate transitioning like that was a viable, sustainable strategy. 3. Lurchingdart picked Dana White against IIProdigysII’s Jacare Souza. He proceeded to get taken down and absolutely annihilated, as expected when using Dana White against Jacare. Lol.

Advaita is my rival and teammate for this ESFL Clan (KingsMMA) we have for the game. I was saying he would beat Kenetic and other guys like Swiss, Papadoc, and GOAT felt confident that he would beat Kenetic as well. They've played each other before with Kenetic leading 6-4 at the time, but Advaita came up with a good gameplan, ran it by us and we knew it would work.

I was impressed that Kenetic didn't die in side control, and more impressed that Advaita finished him in the stand up. There's 3 to 4 ways to beat Advaita specifically,

It was a great night for PS4, and a great night for the UFC 3 community in general.

[Phillyboi207]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetractedMonkey

Long story short: submissions should absolutely be viable. I don't think slapping them on repeatedly without set-up should be viable.

I definitely respect your opinion but a quick question.

What separates that strategy from using someone like Conor and relying on his chin/accuracy/power/ strike speed and the game’s unrealistic stamina to throw a bunch of hard combos at opponents?

Preloading hard combos with the fastest strikers is a viable strategy even at the highest levels. That guy named Swiss is a monster.

[RomeroXVII]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phillyboi207

I definitely respect your opinion but a quick question. What separates that strategy from using someone like Conor and relying on his chin/accuracy/power/ strike speed and the game’s unrealistic stamina to throw a bunch of hard combos at opponents? Preloading hard combos with the fastest strikers is a viable strategy even at the highest levels. That guy named Swiss is a monster.

Heck, look at Rani Yaya. Dude got a Heel hook against I think Joe Soto first submission attempt of the fight.

[RetractedMonkey]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phillyboi207

I definitely respect your opinion but a quick question. What separates that strategy from using someone like Conor and relying on his chin/accuracy/power/ strike speed and the game’s unrealistic stamina to throw a bunch of hard combos at opponents? Preloading hard combos with the fastest strikers is a viable strategy even at the highest levels. That guy named Swiss is a monster.

The difference is the stand up is part of the core gameplay. I guess my main issue is with the submission system being boiled down to a mini-game that has nothing to do with the rest of the core mechanics. I was giving them a pass because, at the time, I thought you had to put in significant work and set up your submission to even get to the mini game. Apparently you don’t.

My response to both you and Romero would be that I am in favor of the equivalent of one hit KO submissions. Just not in this current form. I understand that first round subs happen on the first attempt in real life. I’d rather that element be represented better than a mini game.

We need a transition based submission system. I don’t want to spin my stick, I don’t want to mash buttons, and I don’t want to fill/defend gates while the animation takes up the whole screen.

There was a massive amount of skill and foresight for Dmart to rush me and enact that gameplan. There can be no doubt about that. Everything before the submission attempts was class A gameplay. I just don’t think there is much skill in being really good at the mini game.

But, that is my philosophy. I want to put you up against me and exchange reads and see who comes out on top due to technical and quick actions. Advaita and Kenetic had the grappling equivalent of that in their first round. So clearly I’m not just talking about stand up.

I understand some people just want to win the match. That’s okay, but I’m arguing for my point, not their’s.


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[Phillyboi207]

Oh if your problem is the sub mini game I dont think anyone here disagrees with you.

I wish the sub’s themselves were easier to finish but required set ups to lock in.

The transition based system is something I think everyone wants.

[Dmart15]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetractedMonkey

It's hard to say this without people labeling me an excuse-maker, but I question the validity of this strategy as far as exploitation goes. I know you'd click the instant-KO button every game if it meant you got the win, but I consider these things to be against the spirit of the game. He really didn't even set them up more than, "go for subs to surprise him immediately". As per ZHunter's own statements on this board (when arguing against movement being buffed to a ridiculous extent), the game is the most enjoyable and skillful when two players are playing at a high pace and making reads on each other in the moment. No reads were made here. Dmart has just made it his sole goal to practice the submission mini-game (and ground, obviously) since UFC 2 and brute forced a win. The ability to bypass the entire fight and get a successful submission attempt less than a minute into the fight and with no significant advantages should probably be looked at. I know, I know. Just block the sub attempt. Well, that isn't a very worthy argument. You could deny the 20 foot double leg too. Didn't make it any less exploitable. I tried this strategy after my fight that night and had a moderate amount of success just throwing on subs from Jacare. Granted, I haven't spent as much time on the mini-game (meaning it took more attempts) and often these guys did pick someone other than Jacare, making the experiment less than ideal, but it still showed that it's not something that only Dmart can do. Even if it was, I don't think that would matter. I feel extra qualified to talk about this because I was Dmart. In UFC 2009 you had to spin the right stick against each other to determine who won. I was able to submit people with full stamina because I spun the stick so fast. I could literally do it to anyone. At the time I would shake off complaints because, "hey, it's part of the game". I was also 15. Now I realize it was a way to net wins without actually beating someone. Long story short: submissions should absolutely be viable. I don't think slapping them on repeatedly without set-up should be viable.

Long story short: dmart still got it.

[Dmart15]

I had a camp before I joined VegasMMA called "Onetakedown MMA" That was back in 2016. Everyone knows what I want to do. you can't "spam" subs in this game. you deny them like transitions.