ESFL 50 THOUGHTS ETC

[Dmart15]

I'm 5-2 in ESFL, my losses are to Kenetic and Prodigy. They are very good on the ground and I would not be able to play like that VS them. Styles make match ups. GGs.

[RetractedMonkey]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dmart15

I had a camp before I joined VegasMMA called "Onetakedown MMA" That was back in 2016. Everyone knows what I want to do. you can't "spam" subs in this game. you deny them like transitions.

Way to totally miss the point. I’m not questioning whether or not this style can be stopped, I’m questioning if it should even be possible.

It’s been awhile since I’ve watched those fights against Prod and NRG, but the game was more difficult to take to the ground and submissions were much harder to get. I know for a fact you didn’t aggressively go for subs anyway. Whether you couldn’t do it or didn’t try is up for debate because we didn’t see that strategy.

I know you really want to justify this strategy because it’s literally the only one you know, so I’m not even going to attempt to bash through that confirmation bias. If my team was about to get swept 5-0 from one of the most reviled players in the game, I’d probably want to bypass any core gameplay mechanics to maximize my potential to win too.

The fact of the matter is, this isn’t even about me. I was decrying this type of “gameplay” when you beat Bez after getting ground into the dirt before throwing on a two gate sub. The same people supporting you were crying out against Hammer for only attempting flying two gate subs in his earlier fights. There is obviously an element of favoritism on this subject.

I’ve already proven that the “you can deny it” argument is invalid. You could beat the head movement abusers on release too. Doesn’t mean it didn’t need to get patched out.

There are three reasons you won that fight: 1. You surprised me by going so aggressive. 2. I didn’t even know you could sub someone successfully without it being set up. 3. You almost exclusively try to win by submission. It’s something most players don’t encounter much and therefore, very difficult to prepare against.

The honest truth is this isn’t a style vs. style thing. Your performance isn’t replicable against me. The element of surprise was 2/3rds of that win. The only one of you I wouldn’t win more games out of BO5 or something when we were all playing regularly is Kenetic (I haven’t played Combo or Z, so exclude them).

Especially if I had as much time as them to practice sub defense against you.

None of this even matters as my main point was that having an entirely separate system for submissions apart from the core gameplay is not preferable. It shows only that you are good at that particular mini game. Transitional submissions are absolutely the next logical step forward.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[RomeroXVII]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetractedMonkey

The difference is the stand up is part of the core gameplay. I guess my main issue is with the submission system being boiled down to a mini-game that has nothing to do with the rest of the core mechanics. I was giving them a pass because, at the time, I thought you had to put in significant work and set up your submission to even get to the mini game. Apparently you don’t. My response to both you and Romero would be that I am in favor of the equivalent of one hit KO submissions. Just not in this current form. I understand that first round subs happen on the first attempt in real life. I’d rather that element be represented better than a mini game. We need a transition based submission system. I don’t want to spin my stick, I don’t want to mash buttons, and I don’t want to fill/defend gates while the animation takes up the whole screen. There was a massive amount of skill and foresight for Dmart to rush me and enact that gameplan. There can be no doubt about that. Everything before the submission attempts was class A gameplay. I just don’t think there is much skill in being really good at the mini game. But, that is my philosophy. I want to put you up against me and exchange reads and see who comes out on top due to technical and quick actions. Advaita and Kenetic had the grappling equivalent of that in their first round. So clearly I’m not just talking about stand up. I understand some people just want to win the match. That’s okay, but I’m arguing for my point, not their’s. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

If you ever get a PS4 you know where to find me.

I'm not one for grappling unless I need to

Anywho, I think nobody really likes the minigame.

Especially underneath Jacare.

I'm gonna have to watch your fight against DMart and see what this whole hassle is about.

[LoveThisLife]

Quote: Originally Posted by Papadoc60

How many subs did I attempt? I had two or three real attempts from my count, the stamina seemed pretty appropriate. I think Jacare is perfect in the game as far as stats go, although they should make him an A+. He arguably beat Kelvin and Romero and he KOed Weidman and Brunson in the last year. He has solid striking. Pretty sure all jabs are lead jabs btw. Jabs and leg kicks are a good way to mitigate the nonstop pressure that people prefer in this game. I don't think "sub spamming" is a thing though, if someone denies your sub attempt you're probably going to lose position if you know what you're doing. No offense taken

I should have been more clear. I didnt watch you during this ESFL fight (never have seen it),. I saw you while watching some random dude fight ranked fights.

In that fight, the subs you where attempting were pretty close to spam. I know you can lose the current position you in when making an attempt but man... it was just all you where doing on the ground.

Once again, this is not a shot at you specifically, it just seems like if you attempt 6 subs in two mins; you should have significantly reduced stamina.

Jacare should be a beast in this game... it just seems that this aspect was fairly cheesy

[Papadoc60]

Quote: Originally Posted by LoveThisLife

I should have been more clear. I didnt watch you during this ESFL fight (never have seen it),. I saw you while watching some random dude fight ranked fights. In that fight, the subs you where attempting were pretty close to spam. I know you can lose the current position you in when making an attempt but man... it was just all you where doing on the ground. Once again, this is not a shot at you specifically, it just seems like if you attempt 6 subs in two mins; you should have significantly reduced stamina. Jacare should be a beast in this game... it just seems that this aspect was fairly cheesy

Ahh, yeah that makes sense. If someone lacks the competency to deny my submission attempts, I'm definitely gonna make them pay for it

[Lurch]

Im just glad i was able to be part of history esfl 50 was a huge success with the commentary and the esfl staff and the competitors man even tho we are critical about ufc 3 can't say enough about this community we are really dedicated about ufc to succeed even if it's good or bad this community is really special and im hoping there is another 50 cards and with all the losses I've had in esfl i learn from them thanks to everyone for putting on a show for esfl 50 and i was just having fun with my dana pick LMAO but forreal tho it was blast see u guys next year ✌esfl 51

[RomeroXVII]

Quote: Originally Posted by Papadoc60

How many subs did I attempt? I had two or three real attempts from my count, the stamina seemed pretty appropriate. I think Jacare is perfect in the game as far as stats go, although they should make him an A+. He arguably beat Kelvin and Romero and he KOed Weidman and Brunson in the last year. He has solid striking.

Jacare should be an A+, Costa an A and Adesanya a B+.

[VitoBurrito]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetractedMonkey

Way to totally miss the point. I’m not questioning whether or not this style can be stopped, I’m questioning if it should even be possible. It’s been awhile since I’ve watched those fights against Prod and NRG, but the game was more difficult to take to the ground and submissions were much harder to get. I know for a fact you didn’t aggressively go for subs anyway. Whether you couldn’t do it or didn’t try is up for debate because we didn’t see that strategy. I know you really want to justify this strategy because it’s literally the only one you know, so I’m not even going to attempt to bash through that confirmation bias. If my team was about to get swept 5-0 from one of the most reviled players in the game, I’d probably want to bypass any core gameplay mechanics to maximize my potential to win too. The fact of the matter is, this isn’t even about me. I was decrying this type of “gameplay” when you beat Bez after getting ground into the dirt before throwing on a two gate sub. The same people supporting you were crying out against Hammer for only attempting flying two gate subs in his earlier fights. There is obviously an element of favoritism on this subject. I’ve already proven that the “you can deny it” argument is invalid. You could beat the head movement abusers on release too. Doesn’t mean it didn’t need to get patched out. There are three reasons you won that fight: 1. You surprised me by going so aggressive. 2. I didn’t even know you could sub someone successfully without it being set up. 3. You almost exclusively try to win by submission. It’s something most players don’t encounter much and therefore, very difficult to prepare against. The honest truth is this isn’t a style vs. style thing. Your performance isn’t replicable against me. The element of surprise was 2/3rds of that win. The only one of you I wouldn’t win more games out of BO5 or something when we were all playing regularly is Kenetic (I haven’t played Combo or Z, so exclude them). Especially if I had as much time as them to practice sub defense against you. None of this even matters as my main point was that having an entirely separate system for submissions apart from the core gameplay is not preferable. It shows only that you are good at that particular mini game. Transitional submissions are absolutely the next logical step forward. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Quit crying, you lost, get over it