How come you can spam sub attempts without any stamina penalty?

[RomeroXVII]

Quote: Originally Posted by LoveThisLife

Great post. Poor judging calls in the game: "Hey done leave it to the judges just like irl" Sub spamming/Effective nonstop feinting/ Nonstop ground fakes/ 250 strikes in one round / Cartwheel kicks of death / driving TD into the cage from the center of the octagon / strikes that didn't connect eating your block / delayed block response/ etc..: "HEY, it's just a game... we cant provide simulation here"

My opinions on all of that:

I saw Curtis Blaydes drive Justin Willis to the cage with a TD attempt so I don't even get annoyed by it, HOWEVER I do believe there should be an INCREASED stamina cost on the offensive fighter who does the driving Takedown from that far away, with the TD Rating being a factor.

Sub Spamming is probably the dumbest thing I've heard on this forum thus far, because you can- deny subs. Plus, if you get to the second or third stage of the sub and escape, you get put from almost getting choked out to an advantageous position. I forgot which fighter was it, but it was on the most recent card and he kept on going for the d'arce choke only to end up in bad position when it failed, and ultimately ended up losing the submission.


If somebody is faking an absurd amount of times, [b]TRANSITION[B/] you're not obligated to stay there and wait for him to get to where he wants to be. Fun fact: They don't get ANY grapple advantage if they're sitting there faking and you're not buying it, I'll somebody do their millions of fakes and simply transition lmao.

I've brought up that issue with shots hitting the block that shouldn't an ABSURD amount of times here and on Twitter, so I'm glad other players are realizing it as well.


The delayed block response I think is a bug when trying to catch kicks or the bug where you get frozen when your block gets broken. THAT sucks and I would hope to get fixed.


Feints are only effective if you bite on it. Whenever I get somebody trying to 'out feint' me- I hit them!

For example, I fought a dude on stream a few days ago, and he was doing the whole jab feint to body straight or body feint nonsense. Know what I did? Immediately fired off a front kick after the jab feint, or I'll throw a knee if he got close with the body straight feint. Eventually, he stopped.


I don't think I've ever seen 250 strikes in one round, but I've definitely seen 150 and seen a dude be fine. However, it's a matter of considering what kind of strikes they're throwing.

If it's just jabs, I don't see an issue with 100 jabs a round for example, because they're simply jabs, and the counter to that, is leg kicking them as they come in. I think the real issue is when it's -

Jab Uppercut Hook, Jab Lead Hook Straight Hook, Straight Lead Hook Straight x 40 in a round and then they seem to be fine. But if you're allowing the dude to simply crush your block and head health and not offering any form of resistence I don't know what to tell you.

[Papadoc60]

Quote: Originally Posted by RomeroXVII

My opinions on all of that: I saw Curtis Blaydes drive Justin Willis to the cage with a TD attempt so I don't even get annoyed by it, HOWEVER I do believe there should be an INCREASED stamina cost on the offensive fighter who does the driving Takedown from that far away, with the TD Rating being a factor. Sub Spamming is probably the dumbest thing I've heard on this forum thus far, because you can- deny subs. Plus, if you get to the second or third stage of the sub and escape, you get put from almost getting choked out to an advantageous position. I forgot which fighter was it, but it was on the most recent card and he kept on going for the d'arce choke only to end up in bad position when it failed, and ultimately ended up losing the submission. If somebody is faking an absurd amount of times, [b]TRANSITION[B/] you're not obligated to stay there and wait for him to get to where he wants to be. Fun fact: They don't get ANY grapple advantage if they're sitting there faking and you're not buying it, I'll somebody do their millions of fakes and simply transition lmao. I've brought up that issue with shots hitting the block that shouldn't an ABSURD amount of times here and on Twitter, so I'm glad other players are realizing it as well. The delayed block response I think is a bug when trying to catch kicks or the bug where you get frozen when your block gets broken. THAT sucks and I would hope to get fixed. Feints are only effective if you bite on it. Whenever I get somebody trying to 'out feint' me- I hit them! For example, I fought a dude on stream a few days ago, and he was doing the whole jab feint to body straight or body feint nonsense. Know what I did? Immediately fired off a front kick after the jab feint, or I'll throw a knee if he got close with the body straight feint. Eventually, he stopped. I don't think I've ever seen 250 strikes in one round, but I've definitely seen 150 and seen a dude be fine. However, it's a matter of considering what kind of strikes they're throwing. If it's just jabs, I don't see an issue with 100 jabs a round for example, because they're simply jabs, and the counter to that, is leg kicking them as they come in. I think the real issue is when it's - Jab Uppercut Hook, Jab Lead Hook Straight Hook, Straight Lead Hook Straight x 40 in a round and then they seem to be fine. But if you're allowing the dude to simply crush your block and head health and not offering any form of resistence I don't know what to tell you.

Any one getting "sub spammed" is probably just not good honestly. People don't want to hear that but if you watch 2 top players fight you'll be lucky to see them even get to attempt a submission because literally everything gets denied.

[BigSmoke]

Quote: Originally Posted by Papadoc60

Any one getting "sub spammed" is probably just not good honestly. People don't want to hear that but if you watch 2 top players fight you'll be lucky to see them even get to attempt a submission because literally everything gets denied.

My issue isn't so much spamming, it's the fact the submission system does not reflect reality at all. In real life, you don't see many guys go hard for guillotines because they risk burning their arms out and even the most well conditioned fighter can risk gassing from one sub attempt. If you get someone in let's say a "4 gate" guillotine and your squeezing for along *** time, your arms are going to be tired this is an inarguable fact. Same thing with Jacare, went hard on the sub attack first round on Gastelum, got him in 1 or 2 "4 gaters" burnt himself out and lost the fight.

Also like Good Grappler said, you can lock people in to mount with arm bar attempts that are damn near impossible to escape. There are a few prblems on the ground that definitely need to be addressed, no need to be intentionally misleading and default to "well you just must not be that good". No, not all of us are in the 1% of the top tier ground game, doesn't mean we don't understand and can't point out obviously flaws such as the really poor cardio system overall when it comes to subs. Currently as it stands, you could lock someone in to multiple "4 gaters" them get out and not have it affect your cardio at all which does not reflect a real fight at all.

[Papadoc60]

Quote: Originally Posted by BigSmoke

My issue isn't so much spamming, it's the fact the submission system does not reflect reality at all. In real life, you don't see many guys go hard for guillotines because they risk burning their arms out and even the most well conditioned fighter can risk gassing from one sub attempt. If you get someone in let's say a "4 gate" guillotine and your squeezing for along *** time, your arms are going to be tired this is an inarguable fact. Same thing with Jacare, went hard on the sub attack first round on Gastelum, got him in 1 or 2 "4 gaters" burnt himself out and lost the fight. Also like Good Grappler said, you can lock people in to mount with arm bar attempts that are damn near impossible to escape. There are a few prblems on the ground that definitely need to be addressed, no need to be intentionally misleading and default to "well you just must not be that good". No, not all of us are in the 1% of the top tier ground game, doesn't mean we don't understand and can't point out obviously flaws such as the really poor cardio system overall when it comes to subs. Currently as it stands, you could lock someone in to multiple "4 gaters" them get out and not have it affect your cardio at all which does not reflect a real fight at all.

Jacare did seem to burn out from the arm bar attempt but apparently there was not proper sauna for his weight cut where he fought and he said he had dead legs because of it. I'm sure there are other examples. I'm not saying the stamina system is optimal, but that can be avoided by just practicing denying the armbar from full mount or not letting them get that stamina advantage in the first place.

That was the title of the thread, how can you spam subs without a stam penalty? There is obviously a short term stamina penalty that deters you from attempting repeated submissions, but if everyone strongly believes that progressing through gates should take away your stamina when submissions aren't even that powerful to begin with, what are we going to end up with? And do we penalize the defenders stamina for fending off constant submissions? There is just a lot to consider.

Most submissions make you lose position if you can't finish by the 3rd or 4th gate, I think that's extremely significant given how hard it can be to finish submissions with people that aren't maia or jacare.