Situation-specific grappling and submissions

[Kingslayer04]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

So lets break down what this requires: - New animations and mo cap focusing solely on the step by step of each submission. Now the current animations already do this to a point but based on your descriptions, I think the animations would need to be more incremental to show the squeezing and the turning. - New camera when subs are locked in. You would need to be able to observe the intricacies of each adjustment and a wide camera angle would not be able to pick that up as easily. - This is the biggest one. I play Madden. When I play I dont use the hot routes or line adjustments when on offense. I just play. I know what hot routes are. I know why I would use line adjustments. I just dont ever use them because that level of realism isnt needed for a game that I just like to pick up and play. The good news is i can still be successful at the game without using those features. Here you are asking for every player to study a tutorial and learn what you need to do to either advance or defend a submission and there are 28 different submissions in the game. If you dont learn them, you are at a serious disadvantage when it comes to winning in a fight. That goes for online or offline. Now you may say "How about two control schemes? Simple submissions and the new system." That could work but my question for you is: What system do you think the average player will choose? I think it would be simple submissions because its straight forward. So if most use simple submissions, why would the dev team spend time and resources to develop a system that will be a challenge to learn and that most people wont use?

Yeah, I understand. That's what the thread was for, to discuss possibilities. I see why it can be too complex though.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kingslayer04

Yeah, I understand. That's what the thread was for, to discuss possibilities. I see why it can be too complex though.

I think the only possibility would be for on-screen prompts to show you what directions to push in order to increase pressure or escape at each stage. The issue that comes with that is that breaks immersion but I'd argue it breaks it less than the current full screen sub system.

[Kingslayer04]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

I think the only possibility would be for on-screen prompts to show you what directions to push in order to increase pressure or escape at each stage. The issue that comes with that is that breaks immersion but I'd argue it breaks it less than the current full screen sub system.

Yeah, I did think of something like that too, or something QTE -like, but I know people hate those and I'm not sure I want them either, so I didn't suggest it. The most important thing is defending during the submission itself and somehow having to remain calm and making the correct decisions in a tight situation. Also subbing people without them having to be gassed.

[TheRizzzle]

All I know is recently I can't escape a submission against the computer to save my life.

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[Phillyboi207]

I just want transition based subs

Let them keep all the current animations, add some additional ones for counters but let everything be based on what direction you choose to move.

[Kingslayer04]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phillyboi207

I just want transition based subs Let them keep all the current animations, add some additional ones for counters but let everything be based on what direction you choose to move.

So, say, a guy moves left and that leaves an opening for a specific sub? Sort of like that?


Edit: @aholbert32, it doesn't need to be a specific action for each sub, I'm basically thinking out loud in this thread. It could be only two different approaches: say, one for Choke subs, and one for Joint subs.

[Phillyboi207]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kingslayer04

So, say, a guy moves left and that leaves an opening for a specific sub? Sort of like that? Edit: @aholbert32, it doesn't need to be a specific action for each sub, I'm basically thinking out loud in this thread. It could be only two different approaches: say, one for Choke subs, and one for Joint subs.

Pretty much the way you can go into a guillotine when your opponent stands from bottom sprawl.

Just as an example

Your opponent shoots a TD. You time the guillotine reversal. The sub initiates, now he has the options of trying to transition in different directions to fight it, while you have to correctly assess his defense and adjust accordingly.

I’d love for the transition speeds to be essentially doubled here so locking up subs is less about denying transitions and more about correctly finishing a sequence of transitions. Tbh all of grappling should be like that. The way postering up stops the momemtum roll in FG.

Hopefully they add minor transitions as well so you can do things like fight hands, tuck the chin, step/roll to specific sides ect.

There’s so much depth to be added and for grappling the D-pad/L stick offer a lot more room for button schematics.

Here’s a video detailing some of the counters(go to about 40 secs).



Can you imagine a system where grapplings involves constant transitions minor vs major with occasional modified (muscle or special) transitions? It’d be just as fast paced and varied as the striking.

[Kingslayer04]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phillyboi207

Pretty much the way you can go into a guillotine when your opponent stands from bottom sprawl. Just as an example Your opponent shoots a TD. You time the guillotine reversal. The sub initiates, now he has the options of trying to transition in different directions to fight it, while you have to correctly assess his defense and adjust accordingly. I’d love for the transition speeds to be essentially doubled here so locking up subs is less about denying transitions and more about correctly finishing a sequence of transitions. Tbh all of grappling should be like that. The way postering up stops the momemtum roll in FG. Hopefully they add minor transitions as well so you can do things like fight hands, tuck the chin, step/roll to specific sides ect. There’s so much depth to be added and for grappling the D-pad/L stick over a lot more room for button schematics. Here’s a video detailing some of the counters(go to about 40 secs). Can you imagine a system where grapplings involves constant transitions minor vs major with occasional modified (muscle or special) transitions? It’d be just as fast paced and varied as the striking.

It does sound great, yeah. Your description reminded me of chain grappling, where there's a first attempt, then another, then another, if you choose to pursue them. They should drain stamina and should depend on stats as well. In a Khabib vs Conor situation, Khabib can afford to pursue many of them without fear of gassing, and should have the stat advantage to eventually pull it off. The stats should be able to really prevent 50-50 situations where it's not a realistic 50-50, perhaps make it a 60-40 in favour of stats vs skill.

As for your idea of transition based subs, not all subs are counters, what about the regular ones?