How was yukes able to please both hardcores and casuals but only casuals matter in ea

[GameplayDevUFC]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheUFCVeteran

I've learned from UFC 3 and 4. Clearly EA's design decisions don't cater to me, and while I wish they would at least give us options, it is what it is. I just wish we had an alternative which was more sim based.

One of my fondest memories of UFC 3 launch was listening to you on stream gushing about how much you loved the changes to UFC 3 during the beta.

I think it's unfair to say that we haven't at least catered to your wishes at least a little bit over the course of those two games.

If you want to be 100% the target that's probably never going to happen.

But to say you got nothing out of UFC 3 is very dishonest. I heard it from your own mouth.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Here's another theory for why EA target's the casual audience.

The argument for targeting the hard core, who will buy the game anyway, is that if they like it they'll promote it to their friends who are casuals.

But when we make arguably the best standup striking system in any combat sport game ever, that is geared 100% towards the hard core audience what happens? You **** all over it anyway.

So why cater to you anymore?

[ryangil23]

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

Here's another theory for why EA target's the casual audience. The argument for targeting the hard core, who will buy the game anyway, is that if they like it they'll promote it to their friends who are casuals. But when we make arguably the best standup striking system in any combat sport game ever, that is geared 100% towards the hard core audience what happens? You **** all over it anyway. So why cater to you anymore?

Interesting that the stand up is 100% geared towards hardcores and the casuals still mostly seem to enjoy that and hate grappling.

[TheUFCVeteran]

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

One of my fondest memories of UFC 3 launch was listening to you on stream gushing about how much you loved the changes to UFC 3 during the beta. I think it's unfair to say that we haven't at least catered to your wishes at least a little bit over the course of those two games. If you want to be 100% the target that's probably never going to happen. But to say you got nothing out of UFC 3 is very dishonest. I heard it from your own mouth.

First off, thank you, I remember you mentioning my beta stream on Twitter. Much love to you as a person and as a dev, even though our visions don't line up exactly. So, I didn't say I didn't get anything out of it. Let me explain it a little.

I was absolutely in love with how new it all was. It felt different, and awesome at first. But then, as time went on, patches (which were for the better) and the meta evolved - it all created a game, which, I started to see just wasn't all that realistic FOR ME. Also, the game is such a huge upgrade over UFC 2 that I was happy about that, too.

I remember saying, "Power! Proper power", or something very similar. I think part of it was that, compared to UFC 2, there WAS much more single shot power - but as time had gone on, and the honeymoon period wore off, issues started becoming apparent for me.

If you watch one of my last UFC 3 streams and compared it to the beta, you can see how much my opinion/excitement about the game shifted.

When I say I've learned from UFC 3 and 4, I mean mid-way to the end of 3, I could clearly see that how you guys developed the game wasn't for me. I had to understand how the striking and damage was before I could understand how it wasn't for me, so to speak.

You guys made HUGE strides from UFC 1 to UFC 4 in the realism department, but it also came with a more competitive focused system, which I wouldn't mind so much if there were sim mode options or online Quick Match sliders for my friends and I.

It's not just the lack of realism (for me) that I'm not a fan of, but the game still isn't a true 60 fps (I admit, I was convinced UFC 4 was at first, minor lunges seemed too responsive not to be, but perhaps that was because UFC 3 was pretty unresponsive) and the game just doesn't control or feel as good in the hands as Undisputed 3 for me.

For the longest time, I hoped you guys would add more sim elements (damage, higher stamina consumption) and in a way, I still do, but I understand now that it's just not your vision/the direction you want to go in. That's fine, just wish we had a modern competitor that was more like Undisputed 3.

Also, I know this a small thing but I don't know if you remember me being vocal about it: I wanted a replay editor/instant replay/Rockstar Editor type system for the longest time. I still go put on a playlist of UFC 2 simulation videos now and again, I love them; the music, commentary and shots used all come together to create something awesome. I wanted, and still do want to make my own simulation videos, or use it for a league promo - or just a highlight video.

I know it might not be very popular or EA have a limited budget, or it's not worth the time, etc, but I would like a little more player choice in these games, and as a sim fan, a full event mode with authentic presentation (this goes for the entire game, there are numerous errors that have been there since UFC 3, and new ones in UFC 4).

Honestly, I would play UFC 4 so much more if there was 1: Many more signature moves and animations, 2: Full sliders with sliders for individual limb power, 3: Custom rosters with the ability to adjust stats, moves, download them and use them in custom matches for both players and 4: Way, way better AI. EA UFC's AI has the issue of reacting to the input, rather than the action, which is much more like Undisputed 3's AI. UD3's AI would have different counters for the same strike depending on the fighter, sometimes it wasn't perfect, and they would often react to the action, meaning what they "see" rather what they "know" I'm going to throw.

They obviously react to inputs, but I mean in terms of choosing the perfect counter every time. UD3's AI didn't do that. It just felt much more realistic. Not to mention, on Ultimate, tricky to fight, even for an experienced player, while still keeping a lot of fighter authenticity.

I admit, they can be cheesed with strike cancels, but at least they react to them. I have no doubt that AI adjustments could've been made to account for strike cancels being their weakness, perhaps sometimes they don't throw the same strike to the same feint all the time and change it up, throw something different or simply bite less if you don't keep them guessing with actual strikes. It has weaknesses, but overall, it is so much more fun than fighting EA UFC's AI which borders on superhuman on Legendary, but not in a fun way. Probably because one well timed punch does nothing unless they're in a vulnerable state, just like UFC 1/2/3. A fresh Conor's left hand takes off 1/8 of a fresh Barboza's head health. That is absurd, and their health regenerates way too quickly.

Again, if that was only in ranked, I wouldn't mind as long as there was a sim mode where Conor's left hand truly felt like the touch of death. As long as defensive mechanics were more responsive, made reactive rather than predictive and more options added, it would be fairly balanced, I'd say. Along with UD3 sim stamina drain (best stamina system in an MMA game, and I personally don't think there's much of a debate to be had about it, but I'm happy to hear one - not trying to come across as arrogant, not at all, just that I strongly believe that there isn't a better stamina system around).

One last point. UD3 accomodated everyone. There was Default stamina, an arcade experience, Simulation stamina, for guys like me and other like-minded folk, and you could pair that with either Equalised Stats or a Competition Mode which removed all random elements from the game (this is something I think EA could rename the current system to, and expand on it with a sim and arcade mode for offline and online Quick Match.

Anyway, I know that was long post but I often just start writing and don't stop when it comes to things like this (especially when Undisputed 3 is involved), haha.

EDIT: Just saw this your next post. Lemme chime in.

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

Here's another theory for why EA target's the casual audience. The argument for targeting the hard core, who will buy the game anyway, is that if they like it they'll promote it to their friends who are casuals. But when we make arguably the best standup striking system in any combat sport game ever, that is geared 100% towards the hard core audience what happens? You **** all over it anyway. So why cater to you anymore?

You know I'm a super hardcore fan. You know I'm all about realism. Having said that, I have always disagreed with this statement. I would rank it as the second best for sure, but for a multidude of reasons, most of them listed above, it just doesn't compare to Undisputed 3.

I don't think you can say it's the best when, as I said, a fresh Conor's left hand takes off 1/8 of a fresh Barboza's head health, people can throw 300 strikes a fight and single shots are basically discouraged with the reliance on combos - guys like Machida, Silva or Conor (the former two especially) simply aren't represented very well at all. You can't snipe people with them, the power just isn't there, and it doesn't work at a high level (I firmly believe the highest level of competition in an MMA game should be realism and who can use their fighter as authentically as possible).

To add on to that, guys like Holloway or Joanna have way too much power. Plus, there just aren't enough animations, strikes (power hooks and straights, more strikes in general) or signature animations. Where's JDS' signature straight, or Machida's? Lyoto's question mark kick? Aldo's leg kicks? I could go on. You see what I'm getting at?

[MixedMetalArts]

Tbh I'm surprised GDP is still here defending the product, would have thought he'd be fed up with our BS long ago.
Respect

[MixedMetalArts]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheUFCVeteran

First I don't think you can say it's the best when, as I said, a fresh Conor's left hand takes off 1/8 of a fresh Barboza's head health and people can throw 300 strikes a fight - and single shots are basically discouraged with the reliance on combos - guys like Machida, Silva or Conor (the former two especially) simply aren't represented very well at all. You can't snipe people with them, the power just isn't there, and it doesn't work at a high level (I firmly believe the highest level of competition in an MMA game should be realism and who can use their fighter as authentically as possible).

Agree with this wholeheartedly. Fight Night is a perfect example actually. I love sniping, and in fight night it was both effective and extremely enjoyable. Manage distance, use my head MOOOOMENT, counter and get those flash knockdowns. Absolutely loved it. Stamina was amazing back then also, if you worked the body and made the opponent miss you could have them gassed by the 4th. I actually remember being extremely disgruntled that you couldn't get their stamina below 40% or whatever it was in FN Champion, but compared to current system it seems perfect.
Btw, I was still playing FNC once a fortnight until I gave my ps3 to a friend sometime shortly after Xmas.

[1212headkick]

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

Here's another theory for why EA target's the casual audience. The argument for targeting the hard core, who will buy the game anyway, is that if they like it they'll promote it to their friends who are casuals. But when we make arguably the best standup striking system in any combat sport game ever, that is geared 100% towards the hard core audience what happens? You **** all over it anyway. So why cater to you anymore?

The striking in four has regressed. Its much more clunky and some of the combo animations when they play out look weird due to the tap hold system. I would be one of the people that would make endless fun of someone if we had shuffle step pride mode and more ground positions. We've been waiting for way more then what we have since ufc 2. Everyone expected way more positions in this game and when we seen pride mentioned we all got really hopefull. Only to be let down. Someday yukes will probably return and we will get what we're asking for. Its only a matter of time.

[Sleep Doctor]

Its quite simple, Yukes gaf about their game and community. They actually listened to feedback, especially after messing up ud 2010. Tiburon devs for EA MMA were awesome devs too. They even jumped on fight cards with pretty often.

These guys just dgaf. Just care how they can monetize the game further with microtransactions, commercials, or ads.

As far as the "gift" excuse goes, my girlfriend was going to buy me the game for my birthday. And I let her know so instead she got me other things instead.