Balance vs. Fighter Realism/Sports Game Logic v. Fighting Game Logic

[TheRizzzle]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

This is the crux of the issue. EA UFC is the only sports game where this thinking happens. In NBA 2k, the Warriors are significantly better than the Nets. The Warriors have higher shooting, defending and passing ratings. Why? Because they are significantly better than the Nets in all of those areas. I've never seen anyone argue that the stats of those teams should be made closer so that someone using the Nets or any other team can have a better chance at winning against the Warriors. This is a fighting game based on real life. Jones dominated Rua and Machida in grappling in their fights. We know for a fact based on those fights and Jones's other fights that he is a better grappler than those two. So why cant his stats show that?

They have to figure out what this game is.

Is it a sports game or is it a fighting game (I don't want to be disparaging, but like Tekken or Street Fighter, but more realistic).

If it's the latter then I stand by my sentiment that the only reason the UFC is relevant here is as a gimmic to draw in a larger fan base, because I wouldn't be interested in a generic fighting game. But the further this goes on, the less interested I'll be in this game because the dupe will be up if this isn't a UFC sports title.

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[TheRizzzle]

Quote: Originally Posted by fishingtime

When you are fighting someone of equal skill it should be a challenge, but not impossible. Every fight has a 50/50 chance in the beginning.

Do you really believe that?

There are two possible outcomes. Win or lose.

But your probability of winning an MMA fight is not 50/50. It's not a coin flip.

If someone is bigger, faster, stronger, has better training partners and is a genetic freak and an MMA savant, and I'm Jason Brilz, I'm losing unless I hit the lottery.

If I play the lottery I will either win the lottery or lose the lottery, but it's not a 50/50 probability in either direction.

I'm not saying the discrepancies need to be like winning get the lottery, but the notion that fights are inherently a 50/50 proposition is what leads to an ironically unbalanced game when comparing it to real life.

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[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by fishingtime

When you are fighting someone of equal skill it should be a challenge, but not impossible. Every fight has a 50/50 chance in the beginning.

I think it should be a BIG Challenge to beat Jones with Fabio if we are of equal skill. I'm not saying impossible but it shouldn't be a 50:50 chance.


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[fishingtime]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheRizzzle

Do you really believe that? There are two possible outcomes. Win or lose. But your probability of winning an MMA fight is not 50/50. It's not a coin flip. If someone is bigger, faster, stronger, has better training partners and is a genetic freak and an MMA savant, and I'm Jason Brilz, I'm losing unless I hit the lottery. If I play the lottery I will either win the lottery or lose the lottery, but it's not a 50/50 probability in either direction. I'm not saying the discrepancies need to be like winning get the lottery, but the notion that fights are inherently a 50/50 proposition is what leads to an ironically unbalanced game when comparing it to real life. Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

When both fighters are fresh, and no strikes have been thrown, each guy has a chance. Yes, the odds will be with the better fighter. However, that better fighter can still make a mistake. I want that. Then the fight move downhill the longer it goes on. The stats need to matter more long term. This is where they should really get separated.

[zeric]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

This is the crux of the issue. EA UFC is the only sports game where this thinking happens. In NBA 2k, the Warriors are significantly better than the Nets. The Warriors have higher shooting, defending and passing ratings. Why? Because they are significantly better than the Nets in all of those areas. I've never seen anyone argue that the stats of those teams should be made closer so that someone using the Nets or any other team can have a better chance at winning against the Warriors. This is a fighting game based on real life. Jones dominated Rua and Machida in grappling in their fights. We know for a fact based on those fights and Jones's other fights that he is a better grappler than those two. So why cant his stats show that?

You keep using other sport games as an example. The thing is in these games attributes are there and have an effect but you cant come down court and shoot a contested three every time and succeed, you still have to play smart basketball. You have to not turn the ball over and pass well. Your acting like warriors are unstoppable in 2k which they arent. If i play you with the nets and you are warriors but bad at 2k ill absolutely destroy you. Because 2k is balanced and the skill of the user matters way more than the skill of the team. Same with Madden. I have a freind who is a savage and is literally madden god and he has only used the jaguars for years. We can have big stat differences in the game. It just shouldn't be the sole reason one wins a fight.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by zeric

You keep using other sport games as an example. The thing is in these games attributes are there and have an effect but you cant come down court and shoot a contested three every time and succeed, you still have to play smart basketball. You have to not turn the ball over and pass well. Your acting like warriors are unstoppable in 2k which they arent. If i play you with the nets and you are warriors but bad at 2k ill absolutely destroy you. Because 2k is balanced and the skill of the user matters way more than the skill of the team. Same with Madden. I have a freind who is a savage and is literally madden god and he has only used the jaguars for years. We can have big stat differences in the game. It just shouldn't be the sole reason one wins a fight.

I'm using sports games as an example...because this is a sports game. MMA is a sport. The UFC is a sports promotion.

You are actually making the point I've been making. Your friend is a "Madden God", If he plays me using the Jags and I have the Patriots, he will likely win because he is better than me. I said earlier if Kenetic or Martial have Fabio Madonado and I have Jones...they will beat me because they are better than me.

No one is arguing that stat differences should be the "sole reason one wins a fight". I'm arguing that stats should be accurate to real life. Jon Jones is OP in real life. He's lost 5 rounds his entire career. He's stats should accurately show that even if that means that someone using Jones has big advantage over most (not all) LHWs.

[TheRizzzle]

Quote: Originally Posted by zeric

You keep using other sport games as an example. The thing is in these games attributes are there and have an effect but you cant come down court and shoot a contested three every time and succeed, you still have to play smart basketball. You have to not turn the ball over and pass well. Your acting like warriors are unstoppable in 2k which they arent. If i play you with the nets and you are warriors but bad at 2k ill absolutely destroy you. Because 2k is balanced and the skill of the user matters way more than the skill of the team. Same with Madden. I have a freind who is a savage and is literally madden god and he has only used the jaguars for years. We can have big stat differences in the game. It just shouldn't be the sole reason one wins a fight.

You keep leaving out the part where we are saying if the users are equal in their skill of the game then the stats of the fighter should reflect who should win the majority of the time.

Nobody is disputing that user skill can and should allow them to make up the difference in the skills of the fighters. But there should be a difference and it should be greater than it is now if the game is trying to simulate the sport.

We're pretty much saying the same thing.

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[zeric]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

I'm using sports games as an example...because this is a sports game. MMA is a sport. The UFC is a sports promotion.

Wow rly. I should have used the word poorly at the end of that sentence.