Balance vs. Fighter Realism/Sports Game Logic v. Fighting Game Logic

[bmlimo]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Whats funny is that people who argue for no accuracy stat arent concerned about casuals. They are hardcore players who want everyone to be viable. They want to pick Khabib and have whether they win or lose to be solely connected to what they do not the attributes of the fighter they pick. Also keep in mind that just because you are a hardcore UFC2 player doesnt mean you are a hardcore MMA fan. I'm sure there are plenty of top players who couldnt tell me what someone like Kamuru Usman is good at or his style of fighting.

this is the point! U can't make a UFC game so arcade that a guy can play with a grappler thinking that he is a striker. This game needs to be more about fight strategies than gameplay skills

[bmlimo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kkdbeats

The main issue with this is that is too focused and centered on combinations and damage multiplying which leads to the cheesy combos that we see everyday in this game and makes it look more arcadey than it should unlike its predecesors like UD 3 which was focused on timing shots and counters to deal damage instead of chaining strikes together and also the fact that the lower rated characters are useless since they feel so inferior compared to the other ones does not helps at all.

even when u win the fight the judges stole from the weaker fighters, yesterday i was Ildemar Marajo against anderson silva, had a Knock down in my favor in the first more significant strikes and a takedown in the 3rd... still i lost cuzz Anderson jabs are stronger than Ildemar significant strikes

[fishingtime]

Accuracy stat sounds good. As long as it only effects the damage it can do. For example, someone who uses a jab should have about 1 damage. Someone with accuracy should do 1.5 damage. Not much, but enough to effect the damage delivered, as well as increases the health event odds. Never should it miss (would only create more problems). Only soften the blow for less accurate.

Timing needs to be more crucial in your strike sequence. Someone said something about combos. That got me thinking. Why aren't strikes timed? Why isn't there some kind of a delay for using the same side to strike? Why can I press 5 strike combos and let them play out (I know this one, but I think they can still time it and keep the queue)? Why isn't there some penalty for an unrealistic combo?

I think there might be a way to fuse the accuracy stat and button timing. Which should actually create better fights if people knew they had to slow down the striking to be more accurate.

[manliest_Man]

Just to clarify 1 thing i said about stats being currently 1 dimensional and my thoughts on them becoming multiple dimensions by having them in perhaps an x+y axis.

So here is the idea:

Currently, in 1 dimension you can choose for a stat like left hand power to be high or low.

What if we had a 2 dimension stat, where it could breaken down to 1 dimension like this:

Left Hand Damage = 1 Dimension (high or low) This is the stat that the players will see when looking up their fighter's normal stats.

However on the back scene it's gonna be multiple dimensions like this:

Precision+Timing= Accuracy Stat. Then Hand Power + Core Strength = Maximum Possible Damage Output.

Then you take the value of Accuracy + Maximum Possible Damage = Left Hand Damage stat, that the player sees on the simple stats.

So, this then opens a new possibility for the devs to do the following:
Damage is depended on Accuracy, so you can be 100% Accurate and land your strikes all the time, but deal no damage or you can sacrifice some accuracy to put a little more faith in your punches and have them hit hard your opponent.

Something, like that, but it's not perfect yet, but yeah, that's what i was thinking when i wrote about having more dimensions in fighter stats.

This could lead in more complex fighter likeness, which would have the most realistic system possible, if properly implemented. If you want your punches to be feared like Woodley, you are gonna need some left hand power, which is dependant on accuracy + maximum damage output. The maximum damage output is depended on strength, that strength stat is also gonna make Woodley automatically good in the clinch and on the grappling aspect, since he'd be able to hold down people more easily and wave em around at will, but this will however be connected to his speed/stamina as well, since you can't have it all. So you'll have each stat affect one another, thus the multiple dimensions. And perhaps have those stats be connected to the fighter's body physic etc.

Imagine the stat like this triangle in the black box to the right example:

However instead of havin just a triangle, have a polygon with a bunch of sub-stats and not only 1 dot to decide how much you can give a fighter something, but rather multiple dots in order to represent an area that resembles a shape, instead of a spot, in order to have a system that has each stat affecting one another in a realistic manner.

[johnmangala]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

I'll play devil's advocate. Thats different because I'm causing my fighter to be fatigued through my strike output. My behavior is causing those fatigue animations. An accuracy stat is different. An inaccurate fighter is going to be inaccurate from the start of a fight no matter what the person does.

This is already the case for most other stats in the game, being in Werdums guard is a deeper trap than standing in front of Silva or McGregor throwing body 1 2s and lead body kicks all day.

What I meant is- McGregor may fatigue faster than Diaz throwing the same output, this is takes away control but everyone respects that.

Consider the sub mini game, the stats determine how flexible the gates are and how much resistance. A sub specialiist has better control of the sub gates inherently, this is not unfair or removing control. I would argue the opposite as it makes the struggle more real.


A specialized striker is going to be a better striker from the start than a specialized grappler and vice versa this is not much different.

[WarMMA]

Quote: Originally Posted by fishingtime

Accuracy stat sounds good. As long as it only effects the damage it can do. For example, someone who uses a jab should have about 1 damage. Someone with accuracy should do 1.5 damage. Not much, but enough to effect the damage delivered, as well as increases the health event odds. Never should it miss (would only create more problems). Only soften the blow for less accurate. Timing needs to be more crucial in your strike sequence. Someone said something about combos. That got me thinking. Why aren't strikes timed? Why isn't there some kind of a delay for using the same side to strike? Why can I press 5 strike combos and let them play out (I know this one, but I think they can still time it and keep the queue)? Why isn't there some penalty for an unrealistic combo? I think there might be a way to fuse the accuracy stat and button timing. Which should actually create better fights if people knew they had to slow down the striking to be more accurate.

Agreed. I'm all for it if it were like this. Having ppl randomly miss or miss more often than others will only cause issues. This already kinda happens in the game now tbh. As far as the striking goes, I also agree timing needs to play more of a role and have greater consequenses. I honestly can't stand the games current brawly striking...it's pretty much all about button mashing, combos and parrying. You can try your best to work around it, but it doesn't really cater to skilled striking.

[The Striking Warrior]

Quote: Originally Posted by fishingtime

Accuracy stat sounds good. As long as it only effects the damage it can do. For example, someone who uses a jab should have about 1 damage. Someone with accuracy should do 1.5 damage. Not much, but enough to effect the damage delivered, as well as increases the health event odds. Never should it miss (would only create more problems). Only soften the blow for less accurate. Timing needs to be more crucial in your strike sequence. Someone said something about combos. That got me thinking. Why aren't strikes timed? Why isn't there some kind of a delay for using the same side to strike? Why can I press 5 strike combos and let them play out (I know this one, but I think they can still time it and keep the queue)? Why isn't there some penalty for an unrealistic combo? I think there might be a way to fuse the accuracy stat and button timing. Which should actually create better fights if people knew they had to slow down the striking to be more accurate.

I disagree with one thing... Never missing a jab? That's spam basically... Fighters slip jabs all the time.. It's just harder to dodge a straight punch thrown without a windup. The windup is the tell that makes it easier for us to dodge. Straight punches with no cockback are harder to dodge. Michael Jai White has a video of this on youtube teaching Kimbo.

It wont let me post the link because I don't have 5 posts yet - it's the forums efforts to stop spam. (Respected by me.)

You can find the video by searching without quotations: "Michael Jai White teaches Kimbo" and itll be like the first video.

But yeah, jabs miss their targets, too.. Especially if it's a wise defensive fighter.

[KeyTheNotorious2nd]

I'm all for hardcore simulation/ realism,In my opinion accuracy, reflexes and athleticism attributes should be in the game or just completely change the attribute lay out ,also this question goes to anyone that sees this , what do you guys think about being able to see your opponent or contract of what fighter you are going to fight in ranked championship but being able to train and prepare your fighter before the fight starts?

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