Why don't you like grappling in this game?

[Morgan Monkman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phillyboi207

Non postured strike don't reset the counter. No reason for anyone to be able to hold you down unless they have a huge advantage. If they posture up then you can pretty much sit there until they try to strike then block and transition or block / fake/ transition. Or even transition as soon as they strike.

My fakes get denied like 95% of the time, i block a punch and transition i get blocked. i transition when they punch i get blocked.

GA is a stain on MMA.

[Therebelyell626]

In my opinion 5 reasons the ground game is not exciting. I would like to preface this by saying the ground game is my favorite aspect of MMA. I love BJJ. I also love good stand up but I have always been a fan of submissions and the chess match and technique from good ground fighters (no lay n pray. GSP one of my least favorite fighters to watch of all time).

1.) slow. Not enough action and strategy

2.) too easy. I never feel like I am in real danger when khabib or A skilled ground n pounder has me down. Too easy to get up. Also to easy when on top to gain advantages positions. A guy like nogueira should do a better job neutralizing my offense with their guard. I should have to work to get to half guard. Side note I could just go from pro to legendary but then the AI is a little too good and I can't do anything. My skill level is not at that level.

3.) too many high level sweeps. Against high level fighters or guys ranked in the top 10 it is very rare to see some of the high level sweeps you see in the game. Not only is it two easy to sweep guys who have good top game in real life I.e GSP, Khabib, Usman etc. it also happens like 2-3 times a round. This is simply not a reflection of what you see in real mma. A high level sweep should be something you have to work for and feel more rewarding when you pull one off against a top level fighter

4.) submission are too easy to pull off offensively. Sure they made it harder to escape which I like, but it is too easy to submit top level guys when playing the AI. As it stands I can submit demons maia on a regular basis playing on pro. On a side note generally of Maia catches me in one on pro he usually puts me out. The truth is you just don't see top level guys getting submitted as frequently In real life as you do in the game. Example: Rampage Jackson is by no means a black belt level jui jitsu practitioner, but in 50 career fights he has only been submitted twice!!!! Now should a guys like quinton Jackson be impossible to submit by a high level guy? No. But I shouldn't be able to submit him regularly 9 times out of 10 by spamming submissions to where I have 8 attempted in a fight. Which leads me to my next point.

5) submissions are way to easy to attempt. I can throw up 10 submission attempts in a 3 round fight. Submissions are hard to get and should have to be worked for. As it stands right now all I have to do is hold a button and push the joystick and my submission just immediately goes into a lock animation.

I know with the "realistic" ideas I am proposing this would make the ground game extremely boring for casuals, which is a huge portion of UFC 3 fan base, but MMA can be boring sometimes, and I would like to see a possible "simulation" mode that represents the sport better where I don't see 10 submission attempts per game and 6 high level BJJ sweeps. I would like to see the ground game reflected as the struggle it is and not some Arcady "you sweep me, then I sweep you seconds later". Granted I am speaking from a strictly offline playing the AI point of view, but I am a big believer that if every mechanic was implemented to offer a better offline experience, it would reflect on the online competitive gameplay. Granted people are always going to find the way to cheese. Too many online players are more concerned with winning than having an organic realistic reflection of MMA. But would getting back to replicating real sports through video games be such a bad thing?

As of right now this game is designed to cater to an action packed online competitive crowd. If you think this game represents MMA you are fooling yourself. It's more of an arcade tekken fighter with MMA principles sprinkled in.

[AydinDubstep]

I want more minor positions for every position. More options to work with. Things are too predictable at the moment. It feels like either left, right or posture up.

Having more to do within each position would breathe a lot of life into it.

Ideas:
Holding a glove to punch with other hand
Holding a glove before throwing up a sub to remove a gate from the minigame(?)
Catching a strike into a sub (UD3 style)
Hand over mouth to slow stamina regen or burn off perm stamina(?)
Neck pressure in side control to slow stamina regen or maybe weaken neck for RNC later
Knee on belly on side control for more damaging GNP
Pulling a guys neck (can opener) in full guard GSP style
Throwing a body triangle up to make it harder for opponent to get up
Scooting hips towards cage to wall walk
Moving opponent around on ground
Holding head and punching with other hand
Taunting

[ungorborongo]

the ground game should have a control scheme that makes every button function like different limbs. You should be able to frame different ways and defend certain ways on bottom to survive and try to read things. Let me give an example. Instead of making them basically commands you put in on one joystick, transitions should be based on where you're using each limb. If a guy has side control, you should be manually shrimping or rolling to your back, etc. You should be able to try to get underhooks from half guard/side control and work out.

I just feel like it has to be more dynamic and realistic. having a few transitions you do on a stick will never, ever feel like real grappling.

it also means you'll actually need to know **** to do ****, though.

[AydinDubstep]

Quote: Originally Posted by ungorborongo

it also means you'll actually need to know **** to do ****, though.

This is my only issue with your idea. If they had a huge tutorial library to go with this, I'm all for giving it a go but damn the controls would be so difficult. Like surgeon simulator on steroids.

IRL, I would often confuse which limb was supposed to trap which one and push / pull in which direction to pull off the move and it took a lot of repetition to get it right. It would be so much more confusing in game and think about all the positions you'd have to know. Would be too much dude.

The left stick should have more involvement though. Moving your base and creating space is important in BJJ right? The guy on top could also use it to remain floaty if he chose to, like those wrestlers who just hang out on your back and let you transition but still stay on your back, or work more methodical. Left stick could be used for momentum somehow. The simultaneous transition actually servers this purpose at times too. Sometimes I'll do a transition and the AI will do one at the same time and suddenly we end up in some completely different position. That stuff is very cool when it happens.

[ungorborongo]

Quote: Originally Posted by AydinDubstep

This is my only issue with your idea. If they had a huge tutorial library to go with this, I'm all for giving it a go but damn the controls would be so difficult. Like surgeon simulator on steroids. IRL, I would often confuse which limb was supposed to trap which one and push / pull in which direction to pull off the move and it took a lot of repetition to get it right. It would be so much more confusing in game and think about all the positions you'd have to know. Would be too much dude. The left stick should have more involvement though. Moving your base and creating space is important in BJJ right? The guy on top could also use it to remain floaty if he chose to, like those wrestlers who just hang out on your back and let you transition but still stay on your back, or work more methodical. Left stick could be used for momentum somehow. The simultaneous transition actually servers this purpose at times too. Sometimes I'll do a transition and the AI will do one at the same time and suddenly we end up in some completely different position. That stuff is very cool when it happens.

yeah, it would get mega confusing and a lot of the IRL stuff becomes muscle memory so it would be hard to transition into the game

i just dont know how else it'd be any fun. Maybe if the transitions were more dynamic and rather than full transitions, each "transition" is a sequence of things you can do. So if you want to get from side control to full guard, you still use the analogs to first keep your frames, then shrimp, then retain guard?

I don't know man, im just spitballing. it needs to be seriously reworked from how it is now though.

[Therebelyell626]

Quote: Originally Posted by AydinDubstep

I want more minor positions for every position. More options to work with. Things are too predictable at the moment. It feels like either left, right or posture up. Having more to do within each position would breathe a lot of life into it. Ideas: Holding a glove to punch with other hand Holding a glove before throwing up a sub to remove a gate from the minigame(?) Catching a strike into a sub (UD3 style) Hand over mouth to slow stamina regen or burn off perm stamina(?) Neck pressure in side control to slow stamina regen or maybe weaken neck for RNC later Knee on belly on side control for more damaging GNP Pulling a guys neck (can opener) in full guard GSP style Throwing a body triangle up to make it harder for opponent to get up Scooting hips towards cage to wall walk Moving opponent around on ground Holding head and punching with other hand Taunting

I LOVE a lot of these ideas dubstep

[AydinDubstep]

Quote: Originally Posted by ungorborongo

Maybe if the transitions were more dynamic and rather than full transitions, each "transition" is a sequence of things you can do. So if you want to get from side control to full guard, you still use the analogs to first keep your frames, then shrimp, then retain guard?

See this could be awesome. Keep what we have here, with the full transition, but add these extra inbetween states that players can transition into, which have less stamina tax but are slower to complete the full length of.

Ending up in a shrimp but being stuck there then having to transition again might be better than being denied and stuck in side control.

It would definitely add flavour to it. Half positions or quarter positions and then for the guy on top, give them additional positions to go to from those positions.

Been trying to get my head around the limb idea, I definitely think it would be cool to use the limbs more organically but cannot figure out the controls.

Maybe if the analogues + 2 modifier buttons allows us to do things with our hands such as grab a wrist on one side or the other.

For example, RB + LB then press a side grabs the opponents wrist on that side. Then from there you could throw up a transition into one of those quarter / half positions or start a sub attempt or even throw a punch with your other hand.

I mean, you can catch punches right now. Perhaps the next evolution of that is even binding the same controls as those to grabbing or trapping an arm on that side. That would surely open up some more positions for GNP & BJJ for both the top and bottom guy to think about?

Edit: Expanding on this, a late denial by the top guy, for example, could mean you end up stuck in shrimp instead of full guard but aren't in side control either? At the moment you still hold position even if you're very late in denial. Perhaps a punitive measure for late denials? Just like the guy who recommended doing the same for takedown defenses e.g. stuffed, clinch, takedown. For the ground could be position held, position half lost, position fully lost. Edit 2: then guys with higher level bjj or wrestling can have more semi positions e.g. you try to transitions from bottom full mount to half guard against khabib who denies a bit late so you end up with your legs half trapped inbetween full mount and half guard, whereas against a lesser grappler you would have gotten straight to half guard...(?)