Manual vs CPU catching

[Pared]

Thought some good points were made about the subject, so this post is a result of it.

I've always manually caught passes, but apparently letting the CPU catch is the way to go...?

Your thoughts?

[Starbase503]

Can't really vote on this one, as I tend to do both. I usually let the CPU control the receiver on quick or short routes, but I usually take over on deep routes. Too often my QB lets loose with a pass and my receiver isn't even in the same time zone!

[sanders]

Some passes are too quick to be able to catch yourself - like a 5 yards slant bullet pass.

Any deep passes I always catch myself - to go deep you have to take control and speed burst and catch - its tough but once you get the hang of adjusting your route and catching you can be way better than if you just let the computer do it. Often if I have 1 on 1 and I can't just speed by the DB I throw a jump ball deep and instead of running straight I'll cut so I can come at it from an angle in front of the DB and get the body position needed to make the catch. Then either he tackles me or if hes gone for the ball I end up with a TD.

[grunt]

I manual catch most of my short passes becuase I have a better chance of RAC. Now I am close to 95% manual catching but I still have to work on it online.

[Afroman4ever]

(Shaking head)...I hate to be cynical but manual catching in this game is simply pointless and I find it hard to believe that it is done on a regular basis by many people. I mean if the receiver is on a perfect angle to the ball why change it or interrupt it. If it was possible to lead passes in a realistic way in this game then you could throw to a spot and click on then guide your receiver to the spot but the maximum passing (while a nice feature) is fairly irrelevant.

I've played probably close to 500+ games or so online with ESPN 2K5...Played Top 100 ballers and in numerous leagues and I would be lying if I said I saw 5% of the 500 people I've played make a catch manually. I think most people simply realize that manual catching actually does more harm than good in this game.

Can it be done..I'm sure it can...Thats not the issue at all...The point I've addressed earlier is that there is no benefit to manual catching in this game as the CPU pretty much drives every aspect of this game (exception= Manual DB ints). Most people I've seen throw it up and allow the cpu to run to the spot and catch the ball...Most people playing this game are not clicking onto the receiver immediately after the QB throws the ball, then guiding the receiver to the spot and then manually making the catch animation occur...That is a 3 step process...(1)click on, (2)guide and (3)catch.

I don't blame folks for not doing it either because SEGA made this game so that the cpu will pretty much do all the work for you. For example...How many of you try to manually pursue a ball carrier when he has a few steps on you? Now you may try this but you would be a fool to do it regularly because its almost impossible to gain on the ball carrier no matter what the speed differential is. This is simply another example of how this game was made to cater to those players who are not adept at manual control or want to practice manual control.

lets see the next gen football games be created in a manner that truly rewards those players who want to make the plays instead of watching the cpu make them.

[Pared]

Quote: Originally Posted by Afroman4ever

(Shaking head)...I hate to be cynical but manual catching in this game is simply pointless and I find it hard to believe that it is done on a regular basis by many people. I mean if the receiver is on a perfect angle to the ball why change it or interrupt it. If it was possible to lead passes in a realistic way in this game then you could throw to a spot and click on then guide your receiver to the spot but the maximum passing (while a nice feature) is fairly irrelevant. I've played probably close to 500+ games or so online with ESPN 2K5...Played Top 100 ballers and in numerous leagues and I would be lying if I said I saw 5% of the 500 people I've played make a catch manually. I think most people simply realize that manual catching actually does more harm than good in this game. Can it be done..I'm sure it can...Thats not the issue at all...The point I've addressed earlier is that there is no benefit to manual catching in this game as the CPU pretty much drives every aspect of this game (exception= Manual DB ints). Most people I've seen throw it up and allow the cpu to run to the spot and catch the ball...Most people playing this game are not clicking onto the receiver immediately after the QB throws the ball, then guiding the receiver to the spot and then manually making the catch animation occur...That is a 3 step process...(1)click on, (2)guide and (3)catch. I don't blame folks for not doing it either because SEGA made this game so that the cpu will pretty much do all the work for you. For example...How many of you try to manually pursue a ball carrier when he has a few steps on you? Now you may try this but you would be a fool to do it regularly because its almost impossible to gain on the ball carrier no matter what the speed differential is. This is simply another example of how this game was made to cater to those players who are not adept at manual control or want to practice manual control. lets see the next gen football games be created in a manner that truly rewards those players who want to make the plays instead of watching the cpu make them.

While I can't speak for anyone else, I'm just so used to manually catching in other football games I just never even considered letting the CPU do it.

Seems like "cheating" to me... (And for the love of God, do not take "cheating" literally)

[Afroman4ever]

I'm with you...I have much more respect for an opponent who is doing things manually...But both Madden and ESPN games as of late have been leaning towards making the games so friendly that allowing the cpu to do everything is becoming more and more popular.

There was a time when you were able to "enhance" your game by manually cathing and manually breaking off routes to beat the defender but I believe to appeal to the more casual gamer both EA and ESPN chose to allow the cpu to be more of a factor.

My only gripe is this:
1. I don't really care if the next man cpu catches...thats his/her business. I don't respect it but I won't criticize a person for it.
2. If cpu catching and less manual control is preferable then why does it have to be at the expense of those who want to enhance their game by manually making plays. There should be a GREATER reward for making manual plays.

I can tell ya right now alot of guys on this forum "claiming" to be doing it all manual are either lying or they are not clear on what I'm calling manual control...IMO manual control is when these things occur:

a. You throw a pass and the second you release the ball you click off onto the receiver
b. You then take control of the receiver and guide him to a spot that you threw the ball to...Either by pass lead/max passing.
c. You then manually activate the "catch" animation and make the catch manually

Now lets just say for the sake of argument you and 500 other guys say you do this every single time...My rebuttal is still "WHY?"...why are you doing something that does not enhance your skills in ESPN? Why not just let the computer do what it does best by allowing it to make the play. See...if you still don't understand...there was a time when it was possible to make plays manually (Madden 2002) that were impossile to make by the cpu. This is what I mean by "Meaningful Manual Control"...You could enhance your playmaking ability. In ESPN manual control means very little on offense...The same plays you are making manually can be made just the same by the cpu.

I hate to be a non-believer but after seeing the best of the best online and observing maybe a handful of manual catches in over 500 games I'm firmly feeling that its not that people can't or won't manual catch..Its that its completely useless. I experimented with this by going to practice mode and throwing countless balls to receivers...all kinds of routes...lobs, bullets, timing passes, outs, curls , hooks...In my study I found that it is actually more advantageous for the user to simply let the cpu make the play. I think my point is driven home on how out of wack pursuit is in ESPN...If a receiver catches the ball ahead of your defender you will never catch him if you try to do it manually..BUT if you let the cpu pursue there will be a tackle...Still don't think this game is overly CPU driven?...if so, I got some swamp land I wanna sell ya...lol

I applaud you guys catching manually...great job..But also keep in mind that there are plenty of people who also realize they can make the same plays you are making at a higher % by letting ole Mr. CPU handle things. VC/EA or whoever is handling the next gen games need to address this issue asap. Maybe by creating a whole new level for advanced players called All-Manual Level.

peace...

[Afroman4ever]

Pared...

I would not call it cheating..I think its more of a preference. Developers realize that alot of gamers do not want to master the ability to manually do things so they must ($$$$$) make the game user friendly. If everyone was forced to manually catch then alot of people would get frustrated and just not play the game.

I can recall the earlly 90's when playing Madden on the PS1 was designed so that as soon as you threw and took control of the WR..If you did not attempt to makle the catch the ball would just hit the WR in the head. Now in todays games you can take control then CLICK OFF and let the cpu do it thus giving the ILLUSION that a manual control play has been made when in fact it was just smoke and mirrors.

I won't criticize a ballers skill level at all..I don't think thats fair but when I know I've put in work and mastered certain skills to sepereate me from the avg baller (to include my X's and O's) I have a problem when some cat who just lets the cpu do it all has more success and is able to stay with me...Whats even worse is when some computer player pumps his fist up and down like he's makin the plays when all he's really doin is allowing the cpu to play the game while he's a cheerleader. lol