Corey Dillon broke 42 tackles on me!!!!!

[azn_essence]

I don't even know why I bother.

[NoleFan]

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azn_essence said:
I don't even know why I bother.

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Dude, I don't doubt that your slider adjustments where you put Human|CPU blocking at 0 and Human|CPU pursuit, tackling and coverage at 40 are working for you. But, some don't want to adjust the sliders and for certain things that pertain to the game of football they should just be in the game out of the box.

[2kMatrtixevolved]

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SteelerForLife said:

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2kMatrtixevolved said:

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bkrich83 said:

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Peoplepost their 300 word stategy on how to stop it, but really, come on...should it be that hard?

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Yeah I hate it when strategy, and those pesky defensive fundamentals get in the way.

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Yeah I hate that too. Those fundamentals like, telling the LB to dive low at the feet to get under the stiff arm and telling the guy to wrap up and hang on. I guess you have to charge up before you push the "pep talk" button.

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I've been reading this post since its start, and the quote above is one of the most sensible I've read yet regarding this issue.

Now since spending serious time with this game and developing an effective approach to stopping the outside running game (which is where the broken tackles issue becomes most damaging), I can say my days of giving up 200 yds/game are behind me. However, I am still able to recognize that there is a problem with the way broken tackles are "portrayed" in 2K4.

I've noticed that the response given to anyone who even remotely suggests that broken tackles are too high is to "square up on the runner and charge-up the defender before tackling." Sound advice? Yes.....if I'm actually controlling the defender attempting the stop. But I, and I assume more than just a few fellow OS'ers, prefer to control ONE defensive player from start to finish, without switching control to other players mid-play. This means that during a considerable number of running plays, I'm counting on CPU-controlled defenders to be competent in making tackles. This is where the problem with 2K4 comes in.

The probability of FIRST tackle attempt on a RB by a CPU-controlled defender being broken is WAY, WAY TOO HIGH. LBs like Ray Lewis, Urlacher, Arrington, etc. as well as hard-hitting DBs like Roy Williams, Rodney Harrison, Lawyer Milloy, etc. should be consistent in making first contact, solo tackles against even the best RBs, WITHOUT ME DIRECTLY CONTROLLING THEM. This simply does not happen in 2K4. And like I mentioned in another post, not only does it not happen enough, on runs to the outside, the tacklers are often unable to even slow down the runners to any great degree, which results in those long runs up the sideline (where CPU tackling AI completely falls apart, if you've noticed).

Which brings me to the post made above. What needs to happen for next year's game is not a reduction in the broken tackles, but in the way they're portrayed. More tackles at the legs ("submarining"), more leg wrapping which results in significantly slowing the runner without necessarily bringing him down needs to take place. "Going low" on RBs with powerful upper bodies (R. Williams, LT, Priest, etc.) is fundamental football technique and it isn't represented enough in this game (or any other, for that matter).

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Exactly!! Sometimes a runner is just going to shed a defender, thats a given, but how about if the defender could hold on just a little longer allowing for other defenders to come attempt to make a play. It seems that when the defender is shed, the RB is still close to full speed. I remember in NFL2k the computer would grab the RB's foot and hold on for dear life.

[SteelerForLife]

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NoleFan said:

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azn_essence said:
I don't even know why I bother.

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Dude, I don't doubt that your slider adjustments where you put Human|CPU blocking at 0 and Human|CPU pursuit, tackling and coverage at 40 are working for you. But, some don't want to adjust the sliders and for certain things that pertain to the game of football they should just be in the game out of the box.

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Exactly! When you start adjusting the sliders to cut down on broken tackles or to make the game more realistic, inevitably you affect some other aspect of the game. In this case, it's pass blocking. Because VC decided not to make run blocking and pass blocking separate sliders (like some other game... ) if you lower CPU blocking to 0 you raise the number of sacks AND tackles for the human-controlled team. CPU passing efficiency goes down which just creates a different unrealistic situation.

Again, I don't have a problem stopping the run if I use sound defensive strategy. The problem isn't so much that the rushing RESULTS are unrealistic, it just the method that VC chose to get those results that's a little over the top.

[MSRoble33]

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2kMatrtixevolved said:If you look at Marshall Faulk's BTK rating, its somewhere in the 90s. Anyone who watches football knows he is a GREAT back, but not because he constantly breaks tackles

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I believe the developers figure this rating is the easiest one to tweak to get the RB's rushing numbers to what they feel they should get. I mean broken tackles isn't really THAT followed up of a stat in real life... I mean, they probably think that's the most convenient rating to get the end result they inevitably want.

Oh hell, I remember seeing Mike Alstott break 5-6 tackles one time in a single 4-yard TD run. I know I break quite a few tackles with MY RB, it's only bull-headed to not expect it to happen back at you.

[gippernation]

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Kanobi said:

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2kMatrtixevolved said:
If 10,000 people have problems stopping the run but 100 dont then obvioulsy its a problem. While it van be done (to an extent) running backs ARE breaking too many tackles.People post their 300 word stategy on how to stop it, but really, come on...should it be that hard?

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I'm surprised Visual Concepts developers don't just quit and basically crank out the same ol game year after year like the other developers and play it safe. Its no wonder EA keeps it simple...add to the off-field stuff but don't touch onfield play....keep everything simple and easy. "We don't want to stress the lil brains of our fans too much now do we?". It seems once they produce something that requires the user to put forth more effort in every aspect of their game and/or to undo age old gaming habits....it backfires.

Hey VC,

fukk it!...make the RBS a bunch of bytches that fall down everytime a tackler comes within 2 yards. Strip em of their moves...stiff arm and shoulder Charge...as well their different types (finesse, power, and balanced) and just turn em all into the same bitchback. Take out the Charge feature as well...nobody seems to want to use it. Dummy the game down out of the box. Hell the sliders are there. If guys want tougher rbs let em reduce the HUM tackle slider and raise the CPU run ability slider and leave it at that. Stop trying to be innovators with gameplay...its not even worth the trouble. Haven't you guys learned anything from Tiburon????

These guys don't want to feel the satisfaction of devising a gameplan that stops the run and holds rbs to under 15 broken tackles on 10 minute qtrs with the cpu team running the rock 22-25 times. They'd rather just pick up the joystick and automatically stop any rb or run offense with any pass defense and piss poor tackling technique. They don't want to be challenged. They don't want a true football simulation.

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[azn_essence]

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SteelerForLife said:

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NoleFan said:

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azn_essence said:
I don't even know why I bother.

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Dude, I don't doubt that your slider adjustments where you put Human|CPU blocking at 0 and Human|CPU pursuit, tackling and coverage at 40 are working for you. But, some don't want to adjust the sliders and for certain things that pertain to the game of football they should just be in the game out of the box.

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Exactly! When you start adjusting the sliders to cut down on broken tackles or to make the game more realistic, inevitably you affect some other aspect of the game. In this case, it's pass blocking. Because VC decided not to make run blocking and pass blocking separate sliders (like some other game... ) if you lower CPU blocking to 0 you raise the number of sacks AND tackles for the human-controlled team. CPU passing efficiency goes down which just creates a different unrealistic situation.

Again, I don't have a problem stopping the run if I use sound defensive strategy. The problem isn't so much that the rushing RESULTS are unrealistic, it just the method that VC chose to get those results that's a little over the top.

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See, this actually gives me something to work on. I'm just sick of people complaining but not doing anything about it. You can't tell your guys to wrap the tackle, but you can tweak the tackling sliders. So far, blocking to 0 and defensive max has been playing pretty good for me. If anything, offense is more fun, and defense is rewarding, when you're not blaming your guys for doing stupid stuff, and feel like you're calling the right plays.

I'll mess with the running sliders, see how tackle breaking can be reduce. I'm sure when you lower or rise the sliders, their perspective rating changes. So maxing pursuit probably just globally raises everyone's pursuit by 20.

btw, my xbl tag is AznEssence I'll show u guys what i'm talking about

[CKJB]

What is a realistic number for broken tackles in a game? One of the biggest mistakes this game has made in my opinion is tracking broken tackles. I have never seen broken tackles as tracked stat. (Please correct me if I am wrong) We see 42 broken tackles by Corey Dillion and automatically it unrealistic. If Corey carries the ball 30 times in one game and the first tackler does not bring him down by himself or he breaks the first tackle the majority of the time like a quality back is suppose to do. Would not the number of broken tackles be high? So when Jamal Lewis ran for 295 did he only break in between 5 & 10 tackles on his way to the singal game rushing record. Even the best tackling linebacker & dbs in the league will miss tackle occasionally. In my games my sure tackler make a lot of open field tackles. I am currently playing with the charger Edwards & Lassiter(Quality) make a lot of open field tackles. Whereas, Leber & Fox (Scrubs) are more or less just clean up men thats how they make there tackles.