NCAA in 2004?

[Kanobi]

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spankdatazz22 said:
If VC has to split resources to develop a college game, I think it'd be somewhat foolish to expect the pro game to improve to the degree that last year's game improved over NFL 2K3. Given the potential ESPN Football showed me last year, I'd opt to have a GREAT pro game and no college game than having a good college game and a good pro game.

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As I said ealier in the thread...VC doesn't HAVE TO do the College Football Game. VC could still focus on ESPNFL while another development studio handles the College Football Game. Thats seems to be misunderstood everytime the topic of a sega college football game is brought forth.

[spankdatazz22]

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Kanobi said:

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spankdatazz22 said:
If VC has to split resources to develop a college game, I think it'd be somewhat foolish to expect the pro game to improve to the degree that last year's game improved over NFL 2K3. Given the potential ESPN Football showed me last year, I'd opt to have a GREAT pro game and no college game than having a good college game and a good pro game.

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As I said ealier in the thread...VC doesn't HAVE TO do the College Football Game. VC could still focus on ESPNFL while another development studio handles the College Football Game. Thats seems to be misunderstood everytime the topic of a sega college football game is brought forth.

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My bad - you're right, I didn't fully understand what was meant. But I agree with what JMOOD said - from a timing aspect, it doesn't make that much sense. Especially if you consider that the next gen systems are right around the corner. XBox 2 will be in tech demos at GDC in March 2004; no doubt that the new systems will be making rumblings at next year's E3. I'm guessing there will be maybe one, MAYBE two more year's of original efforts on football games with the current systems.

Most development time will need to go to the next gen systems, or at least it should. That's the BEST time to make a splash. How much fan feedback will help a title that's only going to be worked on for two years at the most? Allocating resources, if only financial or otherwise, is going to drain somewhat on ESPNNFL (my opinion).

And let's be honest - a crappy or so-so NCAA game is going to impact on the reputation or image of the pro game. Part of the reason so many people are disappointed in Madden is that NCAA is so good. It could be that Sega releases a college game that SURPASSES the pro game - I acknowledge that it's a possibility. But I don't think anyone expected NCAA to improve in the way it did - I doubt a VC college game could do the same. Again, I think improving online is FAR more important (in terms of improvements for ESPN NFL) than releasing a college game that seems to have limited value in terms of returns financially. It just doesn't seem to make good financial sense to release a college game right now. I think they have to eventually release a college game in order to be considered on par with anything EA or any other developer does, but right now wouldn't be the right time to tackle that. VC should dedicate EVERYTHING it has to making the pro game better - EA is stepping up across the board in making it's games better, and they have the financial resources to do it. I'd hate to see Sega/VC's game pushed into relative obscurity because they stretched themselves too thin too early.

[Kanobi]

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spankdatazz22 said:
My bad - you're right, I didn't fully understand what was meant. But I agree with what JMOOD said - from a timing aspect, it doesn't make that much sense. Especially if you consider that the next gen systems are right around the corner. XBox 2 will be in tech demos at GDC in March 2004; no doubt that the new systems will be making rumblings at next year's E3. I'm guessing there will be maybe one, MAYBE two more year's of original efforts on football games with the current systems.

Most development time will need to go to the next gen systems, or at least it should. That's the BEST time to make a splash. How much fan feedback will help a title that's only going to be worked on for two years at the most? Allocating resources, if only financial or otherwise, is going to drain somewhat on ESPNNFL (my opinion).

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I disagree. Allocating resources (financial or otherwise) isn't even the issue because Sega has different development studios as I said before...twice. I feel Sega needs to bring forth a college football game NOW while ESPNFL is gaining momentum as far as the football-gaming market is concerned. They gained a sustantial amount of the overall fanbase this year with espnfl. Why not re-introduce a college game next year ?? Theres already a heavy demand for it right now. If they Can Offer a COLLECTIVELY solid effort with espn nfl and ncaa football...the momentum and demand for both games on next generation consoles will be incredible.

When the P23 and Xbox2 debut...ESPNFL and ESPNCAA football will be THE football games to have on launch day. Sega Shouldn't wait until the next gen consoles to re-introduce the college football game that people are going to be skeptical of and most have never heard of really. If they make one now...they have 2 to 3 years to build the game continually to the point where they have pretty good grasp of what we want and expect from a college football title....this will make ESPN NCAA Football's debut on the next gen consoles even stronger!

If they wait...then they'll just be another 2 or 3 years behind NCAA as far market share and brand recognition is concerned. They really can't afford to that IMO.

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spankdatazz22 said:
And let's be honest - a crappy or so-so NCAA game is going to impact on the reputation or image of the pro game. Part of the reason so many people are disappointed in Madden is that NCAA is so good. It could be that Sega releases a college game that SURPASSES the pro game - I acknowledge that it's a possibility. But I don't think anyone expected NCAA to improve in the way it did - I doubt a VC college game could do the same.

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Again, VC doesn't have to make the college game. Why is this so difficult for you to understand. They can focus their efforts on espnfl and while another developer hanldes espncaa. Alos, who says a sega college game will be "crappy"? how do you know? You won't know anything about the gameplay until you play it. Sega won't know how the fans will respond to a college football game until they make one....whether its one next gen consoles or not. They might as well prodcue one now and build a continual fanbase right alongside ESPNFL that will go INTO the nex gen consoles with heavy momentum as far as the market is concerned.

A ESPN College football game wouldn't hurt the "reputation or image" of espnfl because espnfl has set the standard for sega football games period. See this is different than the Madden/NCAA situation. NCAA has set the standard for EA football and Madden couldn't live up....thats not the case with Sega. The Pro Game has provided the model from which SEGA can now define what the college football should indeed look, feel, and play like. Based on the "Splash" espnfl made this year with football-gamers I'd say the opportunity is quite ripe for Sega to release college football...especially if they've been working on or planning it since 2002.

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spankdatazz22 said:
Again, I think improving online is FAR more important (in terms of improvements for ESPN NFL) than releasing a college game that seems to have limited value in terms of returns financially. It just doesn't seem to make good financial sense to release a college game right now. I think they have to eventually release a college game in order to be considered on par with anything EA or any other developer does, but right now wouldn't be the right time to tackle that. VC should dedicate EVERYTHING it has to making the pro game better

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For the Last time...VISUAL CONCEPTS is a DEVELOPER...SEGA is the Publisher...they Have other Development studios dedicated to segasports titles. VC can still focus all their efforts on ESPNFL and improve online features and whatever else you feel they need to Upgrade. Do you understand this now? SEGA is the Publisher...they run sh*t. VC is ONE OF the Development studios OWNED BY SEGA.


Like I said...right now would be the best Time for SEGA to produce a college football game and let it ride the Momentum that nfl2k4 has going into nfl2k5. But more importantly they should make it so it can get 2 or 3 (PS3 may not show up until 06) years under its belt in terms of building a fanbase so that when the next gen consoles do debut...the anticipation and demand for the ESPN ..."Football Bundle" ...will be off the scale...simply because of the rep the two games will have coupled with the new Power of next gen consoles.

[sportsgeist]

VC isn't putting out another college football game until they think it would sell enough copies. The last one was total crap. Okay I can't say total but 99% of it was crap. The only thing it was good for was to get a better draft class in NFL2K3. Someone else developed it but VC was overseeing the project and something went wrong. VERY WRONG. You couldn't pass or run to save your life because the plays developed too slow and your O-line wasn't good enough to give you the time needed to do anything. It still had that superman spin move since they were using the NFL2K2 engine. After that NCAA College Football 2K3 if VC isn't the ones working on it I'll wait and see what other people say about it before wasting my money.

[jazz989]

I agree, am still waiting on that college pigskin to wow me like ESPN NFL. Great analysis on publishing companies namely Sega's reluctance to put forth an NCAA title, solely, because I believe it's the lack of time and resources to develop a AAA title. Sure you can say that VC can switch the engine to their premier NFL counterpart, but it's still demands complete cooperative attention due to the legality with: player's name, licences, etc.

I feel once they get a grip on perfecting their Pro titles then it would be an easier transition to the second endeavor.

[Kanobi]

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sportsgeist said:
VC isn't putting out another college football game until they think it would sell enough copies. The last one was total crap. Okay I can't say total but 99% of it was crap. The only thing it was good for was to get a better draft class in NFL2K3. Someone else developed it but VC was overseeing the project and something went wrong. VERY WRONG. You couldn't pass or run to save your life because the plays developed too slow and your O-line wasn't good enough to give you the time needed to do anything. It still had that superman spin move since they were using the NFL2K2 engine. After that NCAA College Football 2K3 if VC isn't the ones working on it I'll wait and see what other people say about it before wasting my money.

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Okay...ncaa2k3 used thed the 2k2 engine. And? what if ncaa2k5 used a polished verion of the nfl2k4 engine. That Wouldn't be too bad IMO...actually it'd be pretty tight .

I remember ALOT of skeptics were on the net knocking nfl2k4 before they had heard ANY info (This way before E3) about the game...simply based on how flawed nfl2k3 was. Alot of those same critics are now avid espnfl ballers..."converts" if you will.

Thats the bottomline...nobody can say how the game will be until theres at last some info released on it and even then you still have to play the game. If Sega has been planning ncaa2k all this time then I doubt it'll be "crap"..especially if it uses a polished nfl2k4 engine. We'll just have to see what happens.

[Jon22]

Can we get a sticky on this? Lets start a Petition

[spankdatazz22]

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Kanobi said:

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spankdatazz22 said:
My bad - you're right, I didn't fully understand what was meant. But I agree with what JMOOD said - from a timing aspect, it doesn't make that much sense. Especially if you consider that the next gen systems are right around the corner. XBox 2 will be in tech demos at GDC in March 2004; no doubt that the new systems will be making rumblings at next year's E3. I'm guessing there will be maybe one, MAYBE two more year's of original efforts on football games with the current systems.

Most development time will need to go to the next gen systems, or at least it should. That's the BEST time to make a splash. How much fan feedback will help a title that's only going to be worked on for two years at the most? Allocating resources, if only financial or otherwise, is going to drain somewhat on ESPNNFL (my opinion).

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I disagree. Allocating resources (financial or otherwise) isn't even the issue because Sega has different development studios as I said before...twice. I feel Sega needs to bring forth a college football game NOW while ESPNFL is gaining momentum as far as the football-gaming market is concerned. They gained a sustantial amount of the overall fanbase this year with espnfl. Why not re-introduce a college game next year ?? Theres already a heavy demand for it right now. If they Can Offer a COLLECTIVELY solid effort with espn nfl and ncaa football...the momentum and demand for both games on next generation consoles will be incredible.

When the P23 and Xbox2 debut...ESPNFL and ESPNCAA football will be THE football games to have on launch day. Sega Shouldn't wait until the next gen consoles to re-introduce the college football game that people are going to be skeptical of and most have never heard of really. If they make one now...they have 2 to 3 years to build the game continually to the point where they have pretty good grasp of what we want and expect from a college football title....this will make ESPN NCAA Football's debut on the next gen consoles even stronger!

If they wait...then they'll just be another 2 or 3 years behind NCAA as far market share and brand recognition is concerned. They really can't afford to that IMO.

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spankdatazz22 said:
And let's be honest - a crappy or so-so NCAA game is going to impact on the reputation or image of the pro game. Part of the reason so many people are disappointed in Madden is that NCAA is so good. It could be that Sega releases a college game that SURPASSES the pro game - I acknowledge that it's a possibility. But I don't think anyone expected NCAA to improve in the way it did - I doubt a VC college game could do the same.

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Again, VC doesn't have to make the college game. Why is this so difficult for you to understand. They can focus their efforts on espnfl and while another developer hanldes espncaa. Alos, who says a sega college game will be "crappy"? how do you know? You won't know anything about the gameplay until you play it. Sega won't know how the fans will respond to a college football game until they make one....whether its one next gen consoles or not. They might as well prodcue one now and build a continual fanbase right alongside ESPNFL that will go INTO the nex gen consoles with heavy momentum as far as the market is concerned.

A ESPN College football game wouldn't hurt the "reputation or image" of espnfl because espnfl has set the standard for sega football games period. See this is different than the Madden/NCAA situation. NCAA has set the standard for EA football and Madden couldn't live up....thats not the case with Sega. The Pro Game has provided the model from which SEGA can now define what the college football should indeed look, feel, and play like. Based on the "Splash" espnfl made this year with football-gamers I'd say the opportunity is quite ripe for Sega to release college football...especially if they've been working on or planning it since 2002.

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spankdatazz22 said:
Again, I think improving online is FAR more important (in terms of improvements for ESPN NFL) than releasing a college game that seems to have limited value in terms of returns financially. It just doesn't seem to make good financial sense to release a college game right now. I think they have to eventually release a college game in order to be considered on par with anything EA or any other developer does, but right now wouldn't be the right time to tackle that. VC should dedicate EVERYTHING it has to making the pro game better

---

For the Last time...VISUAL CONCEPTS is a DEVELOPER...SEGA is the Publisher...they Have other Development studios dedicated to segasports titles. VC can still focus all their efforts on ESPNFL and improve online features and whatever else you feel they need to Upgrade. Do you understand this now? SEGA is the Publisher...they run sh*t. VC is ONE OF the Development studios OWNED BY SEGA.


Like I said...right now would be the best Time for SEGA to produce a college football game and let it ride the Momentum that nfl2k4 has going into nfl2k5. But more importantly they should make it so it can get 2 or 3 (PS3 may not show up until 06) years under its belt in terms of building a fanbase so that when the next gen consoles do debut...the anticipation and demand for the ESPN ..."Football Bundle" ...will be off the scale...simply because of the rep the two games will have coupled with the new Power of next gen consoles.

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Dude - we can agree to disagree; no need to pound your opinion down my throat. I UNDERSTAND that VC is a developer, and Sega is a publisher. I UNDERSTAND THE DEVELOPER/PUBLISHER relationship. I'm sorry I didn't word things to make myself clearer. That said... My feeling is this: Yes, ESPN has ONE YEAR'S worth of momentum behind it. One year. That momentum was built by concentrating on making the pro game as best they could make it given the development cycle. VC's previous college game(s) didn't help the series, if anything it hurt it because it didn't stand quality wise to the pro game or to it's college counterpart at EA.

I would even go so far as to say NCAA doesn't necessarily help Madden. I'll go with XBox sales of the football games. Last I saw a month ago, ESPN had a narrow lead or was slightly behind Madden in sales on the XBox. I think the biggest contributing factor to that was that Madden wasn't online for XBox. Tons of people brought NCAA, yet it was probably Madden's own shortcomings and the fact that ESPN continued to improve significantly that was the reason.

The sales gap on the PS2 is considerably wider, although ESPN did enjoy a month or so competitively on the charts. I'm going to have to continue this train of thought when I get home... sorry for the abbreviated message