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Kanobi · 11-25-2003, 07:35 PM

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spankdatazz22 said:
My feeling is this: Yes, ESPN has ONE YEAR'S worth of momentum behind it. One year. That momentum was built by concentrating on making the pro game as best they could make it given the development cycle.

Exactly!!! but the ain reason sega focused on nfl2k4 was because nfl2k3 was so flawed and there was no way they could fix both ncaa2k3 AND nfl2k3 so they Chose the pro game instead. NOW...since the Pro game has established itself, sega can re-introduce a college game...possibly using a polished version fo the nfl2k4 engine which IMO would pretty damn tight seeing a how nfl2k4 is arguably the best pro football game avaialable.

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spankdatazz22 said:
I would even go so far as to say NCAA doesn't necessarily help Madden. I'll go with XBox sales of the football games. Last I saw a month ago, ESPN had a narrow lead or was slightly behind Madden in sales on the XBox. I think the biggest contributing factor to that was that Madden wasn't online for XBox. Tons of people brought NCAA, yet it was probably Madden's own shortcomings and the fact that ESPN continued to improve significantly that was the reason.

No, Tons of people bought NCAA before Madden even came out and there no other alternatives at the time. The reason ESPNFL likely will never outsell Madden on PS2 OR Xbox is because its not only facing Madden...its going against Madden AND NCAA.

NCAA definitely helps Madden's sales....I'd een say they help each other's sales from the simple standpoint that together they offer an incredible level of replayability, longevity, and continuity....basically due to the tremendous depth of the franchise and dynasty modes in both games. Thats why you'll see many Madden/NCAA fans consider the two games as eing inseperable. Its as if they should be sold together.

And if you don't think the demand for an ESPN College Game would be high...I think you should do a search back to like may or june when there guys speculating about what the "secret modes/features"
would be in espnfl. Somebody suggested that VC would offer a ESPN NFL/NCAA football bundle and guys went nuts about the possibility. Sure it wasn't likely to happen but many felt it'd be awesome if it did....and that was based only off the ESPN nfl2k4 Videos, Screenshots and Info....the game hadn't even been played by anyone here at atht time except those that attended E3...even they said they'd buy espnfl in its demo phase.

So imgaine how the demand for a college football game would be next year now that ESPNFL has established itself as being a quality fooball game. Again if whoever develops the College game uses a polished version of the NFL2k4 engine (same as NCAA uses a polished version of previous year madden engine) then ESPN NCAA Football 2k5 should be off the Chain. Will it have flaws?...of course. I wouldn't expect perfection but I don't even expect perfection for NFL2k5. However , if they are both qaulity then they should Give Madden/NCAA a pretty scare on the Market next year.

The Key things to remember here are the game engines themselves....NCAA/Madden's engine is getting pretty tired and outdated and if EA doesn't use a totally new one for Madden/NCAA 2005 ( which they won't) then Sega has a more than good chance of stacking up against the two with ESPN NFL/NCAA since the nfl24 engine...gameplay..is already far more advanced than Madden's in too many areas to mention.

Basically all I have to say on this is that If Sega goes for it and has been planning it then a College football game by them should be pretty solid next year and do surprisingly well on the market for its debut(re-introduction).

Rocky · 11-25-2003, 10:54 PM

The ESPN video games series without a college football game doesn't seem right to me. Even if it was basically NFL2K4 with college teams and different playbooks, than that's a start. Here's the only other things it needs:

-a real college atmosphere. Huge crowds for big games, cheerleaders, bands, mascots, authenic stadiums, and maybe some authenic fans(fans dressing up like Seminoles in FSU, fans in all orange at Texas)
-a deep dynasty mode. Just follow ESPN college hoops but with a trophy room, conference changes, and transfers.
-A defining gameplay feature. Like playmaker with Madden and 24/7 with ESPN Basketball.

spankdatazz22 · 11-26-2003, 08:33 AM

Kanobi,

Maybe you're right - but I still think your thoughts on demand for an ESPN college game are a bit overstated. I agree that part of NCAA's sales can be attributed to the fact that it had NO competition. People that brought the game were either already fans or simply needed a football fix. When Madden came out, there was a major defection from NCAA to Madden - something that was immediately noticeable online, and continues to this day. That despite the fact that most people consider NCAA to be a more quality effort.

Madden will continue to outsell anything else out there as long as there's nothing demonstrably better. If a game like ESPN is only marginally better (say, overall rating difference of a few tenths of a percentage point in overall ratings) it gives people that buy Madden no real incentive to switch. Why go through learning a completely different control scheme when you're going to have different frustrations to deal with? Madden had many converts this year, but that was attributable to it's own ineptness as much if not more than ESPN's quality. I managed to convince exactly ONE of my friends to convert to ESPN, and that was after an extremely heated and lengthy argument. Whereas last year my friends and I got together to play Madden, this year because of it's tired engine and flaws, my friends have opted to play Madden less than switch to a new experience. If people aren't dissatisfied with their purchase, there's no reason to look to another game that's only slightly better.

I think only hardcore people like those that visit this and similiar sites would keep both a college and pro football game. It's my belief most people traded in NCAA when Madden came out. One thing that's definite is that when the pro games came out, the college game got significantly less attention and playtime. The only way an ESPN college title is competitive or even in the same ballpark as NCAA next year is by using some sort of marketing gimmick - either coming out weeks before the NCAA title or like you said, being packaged with something else. Other than that, I think you take a HUGE risk because of perception. If ESPN NCAA is only a decent game (or worse, sucks), then people will simply think that it's "parent" game will also suck. Just as people thought Madden would be fantastic because NCAA was so good. So in that regard, a college game could actually hurt more than help. Perception and ignorance are powerful tools that sell a lot of sequel titles.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that Madden's engine is dated and looks static compared to ESPN. But given what EA was able to do with NBA Live in terms of player interaction (the 10-man mo cap), EA may be able to squeeze something new out of the Madden (and YES, I KNOW THAT THE GAMES I MENTIONED WERE MADE BY DIFFERENT DEVELOPERS).

I've been catching the "Madden Championships" on G4TV (who are whoring themselves btw) and I saw in one of the championship games (one in Texas I think) someone actually put Michael Vick ON DEFENSE. It pains me that so many people perceive Madden as "real" football. I'd love to see ESPN do a LOT more to dispel that perception. It's not that I'm against seeing an ESPN college football game; I'd just hate to see them do something that doesn't build on the bit of momentum they established this year.

Kanobi · 11-26-2003, 10:07 AM

Quote:

spankdatazz22 said:
If ESPN NCAA is only a decent game (or worse, sucks), then people will simply think that it's "parent" game will also suck. Just as people thought Madden would be fantastic because NCAA was so good. So in that regard, a college game could actually hurt more than help.

I totally disagree with this. I have to use a quote of myself from an earlier post here...

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A ESPN College football game wouldn't hurt the "reputation or image" of espnfl because espnfl has set the standard for sega football games period. See this is different than the Madden/NCAA situation. NCAA has set the standard for EA football and Madden couldn't live up....thats not the case with Sega. The Pro Game has provided the model from which SEGA can now define what the college football should indeed look, feel, and play like. Based on the "Splash" espnfl made this year with football-gamers I'd say the opportunity is quite ripe for Sega to release college football...especially if they've been working on or planning it since 2002.

Basically since there was no college football game THIS year...people won't hold frown upon NFL2k5 if NCAA2k5 were to "suck". Do you understand what I'm saying??? The quality of the College Football next year will have little to no bearing on the way people will percieve nfl2k5 because they don't really have any idea what to expect in the College Title aside from it basically being nfl2k4 with collge teams which actually wouldn't be all that bad IMO. The game would have to be total and complete crap for it to fail on te level which you fear it will but I don't see how that would even be possible if the nfl2k4 engine is used.

You're telling me a college version of nfl2k4's gameplay...animations, ESPN presentation, playcalling flexibility and depth wouldn't do well?....and I didn't even mention the possibility of first person College football, a deep dynasty mode (at least as deep as ESPN CH) and any other features sega throws in. You're telling me it would fail?? Its highly unlikely, man.

Quote:

spankdatazz22 said:
I agree wholeheartedly with you that Madden's engine is dated and looks static compared to ESPN. But given what EA was able to do with NBA Live in terms of player interaction (the 10-man mo cap), EA may be able to squeeze something new out of the Madden (and YES, I KNOW THAT THE GAMES I MENTIONED WERE MADE BY DIFFERENT DEVELOPERS).

IMO...the 10-man mo-cap in Live is cool but its canceled by all the ice-gliding and poor spacing. EA gets props for trying though. But even if they were to something remotely similar in madden all they'd be doing is CATCHING UP WITH nfl2k in terms of player interaction. Nfl2k so far more advanced than Madden its almost laughable. EA will have to do more than "squeeze something new out of Madden" for it keep up with espn in terms of quality. But this another debate entirely.

Quote:

spankdatazz22 said:
It's not that I'm against seeing an ESPN college football game; I'd just hate to see them do something that doesn't build on the bit of momentum they established this year.

It won't do anything BUT build on the momentum they have this year. It Can't HURT nfl2k5 because nfl2k4 was the only sega football offered THIS year and thus its the only game from which we can kinda guage how nfl2k5 will play.

All I'm saying is if Sega has been planning the college football game all this time...intends on using the nfl2k4 engine or a polished version of it ofr ESPNCAA Football...then by all means they should release the game.

spankdatazz22 · 12-02-2003, 08:37 AM

I think if ESPN released a college football game in July of next year, and it was of lesser quality than ESPN Football, then anticipation for the following football title would take a hit. If the opposite occurred, then it would raise anticipation of the pro game. Because ESPN isn't as established as the EA football series, in most consumers minds, it wouldn't get the "free pass" that the EA titles do.

And Kanobi, I don't understand how you're saying that a college title can be developed by [another developer other than VC] yet expect it to have the quality of a VC title. If the people that made ESPN Football aren't working on the game, how could you expect a college title to have the same quality? I would think another developer would have their own ideas on what best to implement in a title. I'd guess VC could "steer" them in a particular direction, but I would think the talent level of [another developer] wouldn't be the same as those at VC. They did that with the hockey game, and look what happened (I don't play hockey, but from what I've read NHL 2004 is considered to be the better title, in no small part because it was handled by a different developer based on the reviews I've read).

Again, I'm speaking from my own perspective. I love ESPN Football, and if they came out with a college game even I wouldn't run out and buy it assuming that it's going to be of the same quality of the pro game. NCAA was good enough last year that it would warrant being an almost no-brainer purchase. At some point VC will have to challenge NCAA, I just don't think that time is now after ONE good year. I think VC needs to do more to establish dominance of the pro game first, get some separation from Madden IN THE PUBLIC OPINION, and then worry about branching out.

jmood88 · 12-02-2003, 09:24 AM

Quote:

spankdatazz22 said:
I think if ESPN released a college football game in July of next year, and it was of lesser quality than ESPN Football, then anticipation for the following football title would take a hit. If the opposite occurred, then it would raise anticipation of the pro game. Because ESPN isn't as established as the EA football series, in most consumers minds, it wouldn't get the "free pass" that the EA titles do.

And Kanobi, I don't understand how you're saying that a college title can be developed by [another developer other than VC] yet expect it to have the quality of a VC title. If the people that made ESPN Football aren't working on the game, how could you expect a college title to have the same quality? I would think another developer would have their own ideas on what best to implement in a title. I'd guess VC could "steer" them in a particular direction, but I would think the talent level of [another developer] wouldn't be the same as those at VC. They did that with the hockey game, and look what happened (I don't play hockey, but from what I've read NHL 2004 is considered to be the better title, in no small part because it was handled by a different developer based on the reviews I've read).

Again, I'm speaking from my own perspective. I love ESPN Football, and if they came out with a college game even I wouldn't run out and buy it assuming that it's going to be of the same quality of the pro game. NCAA was good enough last year that it would warrant being an almost no-brainer purchase. At some point VC will have to challenge NCAA, I just don't think that time is now after ONE good year. I think VC needs to do more to establish dominance of the pro game first, get some separation from Madden IN THE PUBLIC OPINION, and then worry about branching out.

Exactly. That's what I was talking about. If you look at the forums on here people already think ncaa is the best ever without even trying out other games. And Kanobi, you may not care if sega make money or not on an ncaa game but they won't make the game until they determine that they would be able to make money on it.

Kanobi · 12-02-2003, 10:00 AM

Quote:

spankdatazz22 said:
I think if ESPN released a college football game in July of next year, and it was of lesser quality than ESPN Football, then anticipation for the following football title would take a hit.

No it wouldn't because it's being re-introduced...basically making a debut. People aren't even expecting a College Game next year...only NFL2k5. Thats what I've been trying to say to you, man. Whether the College football game is of "lesser quality" or not the aniticipation for NFL2k5 will not "take a hit".

Quote:

spankdatazz22 said:
And Kanobi, I don't understand how you're saying that a college title can be developed by [another developer other than VC] yet expect it to have the quality of a VC title. If the people that made ESPN Football aren't working on the game, how could you expect a college title to have the same quality?

Because it'll be using the same nfl2k4 ENGINE and most likely a polished version of it. Plus if you look at all the features in ESPN CH...especially the depth of the Dynasty Mode ...you're telling me those features wouldn't be awesome in a College Football game coupled with a polished version of Nfl2k4's Gameplay???? Sure another developer would want to Implement their own ideas but they still have use the same pro-football engine....nfl2k4's engine which is pretty solid as is. With more polish and college football elements added we could have very good college fooball game.

Quote:

spankdatazz22 said:
They did that with the hockey game, and look what happened (I don't play hockey, but from what I've read NHL 2004 is considered to be the better title, in no small part because it was handled by a different developer based on the reviews I've read).

From what I've read NHL2k4 offers the most realistic depiction of pro hockey. Not saying its perfect...no game is perfect nor will any game ever be perfect...but from what I've read its the better sim of the two. Either way you can't simply hold a pro hockey game against a College football game that hasn't even come out yet ...even if it is by another developer. Besides thats a whole other game engine entirely.

Quote:

spankdatazz22 said:
Again, I'm speaking from my own perspective. I love ESPN Football, and if they came out with a college game even I wouldn't run out and buy it assuming that it's going to be of the same quality of the pro game.

Thats why you rent games first and read impressions before making a purchase. Thats also why Sega displays games at E3 and likely will do the weekly feature (similar to Football Fridays" for nfl2k) to show what the college football game entails. There may also be a demo made available. So you won't be making a totally Blind purchase based purely on assumptions. Its up to you personally to get info on the game before you make a purchase...and judging by sega's efforts with their other sports titles...the info will be made readily available.

Quote:

spankdatazz22 said:
NCAA was good enough last year that it would warrant being an almost no-brainer purchase.At some point VC will have to challenge NCAA, I just don't think that time is now after ONE good year. I think VC needs to do more to establish dominance of the pro game first, get some separation from Madden IN THE PUBLIC OPINION, and then worry about branching out.

I see where you're coming but I feel Sega should re-introduce the college game next year just to offer counterpart to espn nfl football and Let the college Game continue to build a fanbase. It doesn't matter how much "seperation" Nfl2k gets from Madden, the espn college football game will STILL have to establish ITSELF ...it can't do that if its never produced.

Again, the Sega College football game will be competing with itself each year as the developers respond to fan feedback and make the necessary changes to continually upgrade the game. Hell, their gonna have to do that no matter when they bring the college game back so might as well get an early start and have fanbase installed and primed for the College Game's release on next gen consoles.

Kanobi · 12-02-2003, 10:04 AM

Quote:

jmood88 said:
And Kanobi, you may not care if sega make money or not on an ncaa game but they won't make the game until they determine that they would be able to make money on it.

Trust me, jmood, I have definitely taken into consideration whether they make money or not. They'll never GET A CHANCE to make money on it if they remain too "scared" of NCAA to produce ESPN College Football.

11-25-2003, 07:35 PM	#25
Kanobi HF Clss f '09 OVR: 14* Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,980 Blog Entries: 17	Re: NCAA in 2004? Quote: *spankdatazz22 said:* My feeling is this: Yes, ESPN has ONE YEAR'S worth of momentum behind it. One year. That momentum was built by concentrating on making the pro game as best they could make it given the development cycle. Exactly!!! but the ain reason sega focused on nfl2k4 was because nfl2k3 was so flawed and there was no way they could fix both ncaa2k3 AND nfl2k3 so they Chose the pro game instead. NOW...since the Pro game has established itself, sega can re-introduce a college game...possibly using a polished version fo the nfl2k4 engine which IMO would pretty damn tight seeing a how nfl2k4 is arguably the best pro football game avaialable. Quote: *spankdatazz22 said:* I would even go so far as to say NCAA doesn't necessarily help Madden. I'll go with XBox sales of the football games. Last I saw a month ago, ESPN had a narrow lead or was slightly behind Madden in sales on the XBox. I think the biggest contributing factor to that was that Madden wasn't online for XBox. Tons of people brought NCAA, yet it was probably Madden's own shortcomings and the fact that ESPN continued to improve significantly that was the reason. No, Tons of people bought NCAA before Madden even came out and there no other alternatives at the time. The reason ESPNFL likely will never outsell Madden on PS2 OR Xbox is because its not only facing Madden...its going against Madden AND NCAA. NCAA definitely helps Madden's sales....I'd een say they help each other's sales from the simple standpoint that together they offer an incredible level of replayability, longevity, and continuity....basically due to the tremendous depth of the franchise and dynasty modes in both games. Thats why you'll see many Madden/NCAA fans consider the two games as eing inseperable. Its as if they should be sold together. And if you don't think the demand for an ESPN College Game would be high...I think you should do a search back to like may or june when there guys speculating about what the "secret modes/features" would be in espnfl. Somebody suggested that VC would offer a ESPN NFL/NCAA football bundle and guys went nuts about the possibility. Sure it wasn't likely to happen but many felt it'd be awesome if it did....and that was based only off the ESPN nfl2k4 Videos, Screenshots and Info....the game hadn't even been played by anyone here at atht time except those that attended E3...even they said they'd buy espnfl in its demo phase. So imgaine how the demand for a college football game would be next year now that ESPNFL has established itself as being a quality fooball game. Again if whoever develops the College game uses a polished version of the NFL2k4 engine (same as NCAA uses a polished version of previous year madden engine) then ESPN NCAA Football 2k5 should be off the Chain. Will it have flaws?...of course. I wouldn't expect perfection but I don't even expect perfection for NFL2k5. However , if they are both qaulity then they should Give Madden/NCAA a pretty scare on the Market next year. The Key things to remember here are the game engines themselves....NCAA/Madden's engine is getting pretty tired and outdated and if EA doesn't use a totally new one for Madden/NCAA 2005 ( which they won't) then Sega has a more than good chance of stacking up against the two with ESPN NFL/NCAA since the nfl24 engine...gameplay..is already far more advanced than Madden's in too many areas to mention. Basically all I have to say on this is that If Sega goes for it and has been planning it then a College football game by them should be pretty solid next year and do surprisingly well on the market for its debut(re-introduction).

11-25-2003, 10:54 PM	#26
Rocky D* Wrk! OVR: 30* Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 6,891 Blog Entries: 6	Re: NCAA in 2004? The ESPN video games series without a college football game doesn't seem right to me. Even if it was basically NFL2K4 with college teams and different playbooks, than that's a start. Here's the only other things it needs: -a real college atmosphere. Huge crowds for big games, cheerleaders, bands, mascots, authenic stadiums, and maybe some authenic fans(fans dressing up like Seminoles in FSU, fans in all orange at Texas) -a deep dynasty mode. Just follow ESPN college hoops but with a trophy room, conference changes, and transfers. -A defining gameplay feature. Like playmaker with Madden and 24/7 with ESPN Basketball.

11-26-2003, 08:33 AM	#27
spankdatazz22 All Star OVR: 21 Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 6,220	Re: NCAA in 2004? Kanobi, Maybe you're right - but I still think your thoughts on demand for an ESPN college game are a bit overstated. I agree that part of NCAA's sales can be attributed to the fact that it had NO competition. People that brought the game were either already fans or simply needed a football fix. When Madden came out, there was a major defection from NCAA to Madden - something that was immediately noticeable online, and continues to this day. That despite the fact that most people consider NCAA to be a more quality effort. Madden will continue to outsell anything else out there as long as there's nothing demonstrably better. If a game like ESPN is only marginally better (say, overall rating difference of a few tenths of a percentage point in overall ratings) it gives people that buy Madden no real incentive to switch. Why go through learning a completely different control scheme when you're going to have different frustrations to deal with? Madden had many converts this year, but that was attributable to it's own ineptness as much if not more than ESPN's quality. I managed to convince exactly ONE of my friends to convert to ESPN, and that was after an extremely heated and lengthy argument. Whereas last year my friends and I got together to play Madden, this year because of it's tired engine and flaws, my friends have opted to play Madden less than switch to a new experience. If people aren't dissatisfied with their purchase, there's no reason to look to another game that's only slightly better. I think only hardcore people like those that visit this and similiar sites would keep both a college and pro football game. It's my belief most people traded in NCAA when Madden came out. One thing that's definite is that when the pro games came out, the college game got significantly less attention and playtime. The only way an ESPN college title is competitive or even in the same ballpark as NCAA next year is by using some sort of marketing gimmick - either coming out weeks before the NCAA title or like you said, being packaged with something else. Other than that, I think you take a HUGE risk because of perception. If ESPN NCAA is only a decent game (or worse, sucks), then people will simply think that it's "parent" game will also suck. Just as people thought Madden would be fantastic because NCAA was so good. So in that regard, a college game could actually hurt more than help. Perception and ignorance are powerful tools that sell a lot of sequel titles. I agree wholeheartedly with you that Madden's engine is dated and looks static compared to ESPN. But given what EA was able to do with NBA Live in terms of player interaction (the 10-man mo cap), EA may be able to squeeze something new out of the Madden (and YES, I KNOW THAT THE GAMES I MENTIONED WERE MADE BY DIFFERENT DEVELOPERS). I've been catching the "Madden Championships" on G4TV (who are whoring themselves btw) and I saw in one of the championship games (one in Texas I think) someone actually put Michael Vick ON DEFENSE. It pains me that so many people perceive Madden as "real" football. I'd love to see ESPN do a LOT more to dispel that perception. It's not that I'm against seeing an ESPN college football game; I'd just hate to see them do something that doesn't build on the bit of momentum they established this year.

11-26-2003, 10:07 AM	#28
Kanobi HF Clss f '09 OVR: 14* Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,980 Blog Entries: 17	Re: NCAA in 2004? Quote: *spankdatazz22 said:* If ESPN NCAA is only a decent game (or worse, sucks), then people will simply think that it's "parent" game will also suck. Just as people thought Madden would be fantastic because NCAA was so good. So in that regard, a college game could actually hurt more than help. I totally disagree with this. I have to use a quote of myself from an earlier post here... Quote: A ESPN College football game wouldn't hurt the "reputation or image" of espnfl because espnfl has set the standard for sega football games period. See this is different than the Madden/NCAA situation. NCAA has set the standard for EA football and Madden couldn't live up....thats not the case with Sega. The Pro Game has provided the model from which SEGA can now define what the college football should indeed look, feel, and play like. Based on the "Splash" espnfl made this year with football-gamers I'd say the opportunity is quite ripe for Sega to release college football...especially if they've been working on or planning it since 2002. Basically since there was no college football game THIS year...people won't hold frown upon NFL2k5 if NCAA2k5 were to "suck". Do you understand what I'm saying??? The quality of the College Football next year will have little to no bearing on the way people will percieve nfl2k5 because they don't really have any idea what to expect in the College Title aside from it basically being nfl2k4 with collge teams which actually wouldn't be all that bad IMO. The game would have to be total and complete crap for it to fail on te level which you fear it will but I don't see how that would even be possible if the nfl2k4 engine is used. You're telling me a college version of nfl2k4's gameplay...animations, ESPN presentation, playcalling flexibility and depth wouldn't do well?....and I didn't even mention the possibility of first person College football, a deep dynasty mode (at least as deep as ESPN CH) and any other features sega throws in. You're telling me it would fail?? Its highly unlikely, man. Quote: *spankdatazz22 said:* I agree wholeheartedly with you that Madden's engine is dated and looks static compared to ESPN. But given what EA was able to do with NBA Live in terms of player interaction (the 10-man mo cap), EA may be able to squeeze something new out of the Madden (and YES, I KNOW THAT THE GAMES I MENTIONED WERE MADE BY DIFFERENT DEVELOPERS). IMO...the 10-man mo-cap in Live is cool but its canceled by all the ice-gliding and poor spacing. EA gets props for trying though. But even if they were to something remotely similar in madden all they'd be doing is CATCHING UP WITH nfl2k in terms of player interaction. Nfl2k so far more advanced than Madden its almost laughable. EA will have to do more than "squeeze something new out of Madden" for it keep up with espn in terms of quality. But this another debate entirely. Quote: *spankdatazz22 said:* It's not that I'm against seeing an ESPN college football game; I'd just hate to see them do something that doesn't build on the bit of momentum they established this year. It won't do anything BUT build on the momentum they have this year. It Can't HURT nfl2k5 because nfl2k4 was the only sega football offered THIS year and thus its the only game from which we can kinda guage how nfl2k5 will play. All I'm saying is if Sega has been planning the college football game all this time...intends on using the nfl2k4 engine or a polished version of it ofr ESPNCAA Football...then by all means they should release the game.

12-02-2003, 08:37 AM	#29
spankdatazz22 All Star OVR: 21 Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 6,220	Re: NCAA in 2004? I think if ESPN released a college football game in July of next year, and it was of lesser quality than ESPN Football, then anticipation for the following football title would take a hit. If the opposite occurred, then it would raise anticipation of the pro game. Because ESPN isn't as established as the EA football series, in most consumers minds, it wouldn't get the "free pass" that the EA titles do. And Kanobi, I don't understand how you're saying that a college title can be developed by [another developer other than VC] yet expect it to have the quality of a VC title. If the people that made ESPN Football aren't working on the game, how could you expect a college title to have the same quality? I would think another developer would have their own ideas on what best to implement in a title. I'd guess VC could "steer" them in a particular direction, but I would think the talent level of [another developer] wouldn't be the same as those at VC. They did that with the hockey game, and look what happened (I don't play hockey, but from what I've read NHL 2004 is considered to be the better title, in no small part because it was handled by a different developer based on the reviews I've read). Again, I'm speaking from my own perspective. I love ESPN Football, and if they came out with a college game even I wouldn't run out and buy it assuming that it's going to be of the same quality of the pro game. NCAA was good enough last year that it would warrant being an almost no-brainer purchase. At some point VC will have to challenge NCAA, I just don't think that time is now after ONE good year. I think VC needs to do more to establish dominance of the pro game first, get some separation from Madden IN THE PUBLIC OPINION, and then worry about branching out.

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	Where Are Our College Basketball Video Game Rumors?

12-02-2003, 09:24 AM	#30
jmood88 Sean Payton: Retribution OVR: 40 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 34,640 Blog Entries: 1	Re: NCAA in 2004? Quote: *spankdatazz22 said:* I think if ESPN released a college football game in July of next year, and it was of lesser quality than ESPN Football, then anticipation for the following football title would take a hit. If the opposite occurred, then it would raise anticipation of the pro game. Because ESPN isn't as established as the EA football series, in most consumers minds, it wouldn't get the "free pass" that the EA titles do. And Kanobi, I don't understand how you're saying that a college title can be developed by [another developer other than VC] yet expect it to have the quality of a VC title. If the people that made ESPN Football aren't working on the game, how could you expect a college title to have the same quality? I would think another developer would have their own ideas on what best to implement in a title. I'd guess VC could "steer" them in a particular direction, but I would think the talent level of [another developer] wouldn't be the same as those at VC. They did that with the hockey game, and look what happened (I don't play hockey, but from what I've read NHL 2004 is considered to be the better title, in no small part because it was handled by a different developer based on the reviews I've read). Again, I'm speaking from my own perspective. I love ESPN Football, and if they came out with a college game even I wouldn't run out and buy it assuming that it's going to be of the same quality of the pro game. NCAA was good enough last year that it would warrant being an almost no-brainer purchase. At some point VC will have to challenge NCAA, I just don't think that time is now after ONE good year. I think VC needs to do more to establish dominance of the pro game first, get some separation from Madden IN THE PUBLIC OPINION, and then worry about branching out. Exactly. That's what I was talking about. If you look at the forums on here people already think ncaa is the best ever without even trying out other games. And Kanobi, you may not care if sega make money or not on an ncaa game but they won't make the game until they determine that they would be able to make money on it.

12-02-2003, 10:00 AM	#31
Kanobi HF Clss f '09 OVR: 14* Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,980 Blog Entries: 17	Re: NCAA in 2004? Quote: *spankdatazz22 said:* I think if ESPN released a college football game in July of next year, and it was of lesser quality than ESPN Football, then anticipation for the following football title would take a hit. No it wouldn't because it's being re-introduced...basically making a debut. People aren't even expecting a College Game next year...only NFL2k5. Thats what I've been trying to say to you, man. Whether the College football game is of "lesser quality" or not the aniticipation for NFL2k5 will not "take a hit". Quote: *spankdatazz22 said:* And Kanobi, I don't understand how you're saying that a college title can be developed by [another developer other than VC] yet expect it to have the quality of a VC title. If the people that made ESPN Football aren't working on the game, how could you expect a college title to have the same quality? Because it'll be using the same nfl2k4 ENGINE and most likely a polished version of it. Plus if you look at all the features in ESPN CH...especially the depth of the Dynasty Mode ...you're telling me those features wouldn't be awesome in a College Football game coupled with a polished version of Nfl2k4's Gameplay???? Sure another developer would want to Implement their own ideas but they still have use the same pro-football engine....nfl2k4's engine which is pretty solid as is. With more polish and college football elements added we could have very good college fooball game. Quote: *spankdatazz22 said:* They did that with the hockey game, and look what happened (I don't play hockey, but from what I've read NHL 2004 is considered to be the better title, in no small part because it was handled by a different developer based on the reviews I've read). From what I've read NHL2k4 offers the most realistic depiction of pro hockey. Not saying its perfect...no game is perfect nor will any game ever be perfect...but from what I've read its the better sim of the two. Either way you can't simply hold a pro hockey game against a College football game that hasn't even come out yet ...even if it is by another developer. Besides thats a whole other game engine entirely. Quote: *spankdatazz22 said:* Again, I'm speaking from my own perspective. I love ESPN Football, and if they came out with a college game even I wouldn't run out and buy it assuming that it's going to be of the same quality of the pro game. Thats why you rent games first and read impressions before making a purchase. Thats also why Sega displays games at E3 and likely will do the weekly feature (similar to Football Fridays" for nfl2k) to show what the college football game entails. There may also be a demo made available. So you won't be making a totally Blind purchase based purely on assumptions. Its up to you personally to get info on the game before you make a purchase...and judging by sega's efforts with their other sports titles...the info will be made readily available. Quote: *spankdatazz22 said:* NCAA was good enough last year that it would warrant being an almost no-brainer purchase.At some point VC will have to challenge NCAA, I just don't think that time is now after ONE good year. I think VC needs to do more to establish dominance of the pro game first, get some separation from Madden IN THE PUBLIC OPINION, and then worry about branching out. I see where you're coming but I feel Sega should re-introduce the college game next year just to offer counterpart to espn nfl football and Let the college Game continue to build a fanbase. It doesn't matter how much "seperation" Nfl2k gets from Madden, the espn college football game will STILL have to establish ITSELF ...it can't do that if its never produced. Again, the Sega College football game will be competing with itself each year as the developers respond to fan feedback and make the necessary changes to continually upgrade the game. Hell, their gonna have to do that no matter when they bring the college game back so might as well get an early start and have fanbase installed and primed for the College Game's release on next gen consoles.

12-02-2003, 10:04 AM	#32
Kanobi HF Clss f '09 OVR: 14* Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,980 Blog Entries: 17	Re: NCAA in 2004? Quote: *jmood88 said:* And Kanobi, you may not care if sega make money or not on an ncaa game but they won't make the game until they determine that they would be able to make money on it. Trust me, jmood, I have definitely taken into consideration whether they make money or not. They'll never GET A CHANCE to make money on it if they remain too "scared" of NCAA to produce ESPN College Football.

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NCAA in 2004?