Rubber-Band AI or Late-Game Pressure?

[bdunn13]

"Any thoughts, opinions, suggestions, queries? "

It takes a million dollar + super comptuer to be fast enough to beat a world class chess player(and the computer still gets a few minutes to think). Imagine coding AI that can run in real time on a 150 buck console.

[bkrich83]

I have talked to the AI programmer of this game many, many times about just this subject. He hates comeback code, or rubberbabnd AI. I am quite positive it doesn't exist in this game.

[mpattee]

I think only cubs and red sox fans know what its like to be a dolphins fan. They build up your hope the first half of every year and then demolish it late in the season losing games they shouldn't. With the dolphins no lead is safe. But I'll keep rooting for them just like I'm sure all you other dolphin fans will.

[49ersrule23]

Quote:

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immortal said:
In today's gaming world, sometimes it becomes increasingly difficult to distinguish between rubber-band AI logic and late game pressure. In MVP baseball, on MVP difficulty, regardless of where the pitches are thrown, if you are up big late in a game, the cpu will somehow "manage" to string together hit after hit until the game becomes competitive. This is definitely rubber-band AI, which has become apparent in many EA Sports games. Visual Concepts has always been known for their late-game pressure, making it feel more realistic and not just the cpu trying to make the game competitive in any way possible. However, last night, I am not sure if I encountered the former or the latter.
I was the Jets playing against the Saints. With 3:31 left in the game, I was enjoying a 27-13 lead with the ball (thanks in part to Sam Cowart's 4 INT's - All-Pro difficulty with default sliders). Anyway, after dropping 2 wide-open passes, I punted. 2 plays later, the score was 27-20 after a 45-yard TD reception by Joe Horn. With a little over 2 minutes left, I get the ball back and proceed to throw an INT on second down deep in my own territory. Once again, 2 plays later, they score, tying the game. In less than 2 minutes, they doubled their score to tie the game. I got the ball back and started driving but got stopped around mid-field. I punted and the cpu regained possession with under 1:20 to play. After killing some time, they had the ball on my 30 on 3rd down with under :30. They complete a 10-yard pass, which would have given them first down, but a penalty was called for an illegal forward pass. They challenged and surprisingly, they overturned the call. So now they are on my 20 with under :20, but with their kicker already missing one fg within 30 yards, the cpu felt the need to complete another bullet pass on the sideline and get out of bounds with :03, setting up the game-winning chip shot fg and my 30-27 loss.
Now usually, I would just take the loss and move on. But I couldn't help but think to myself whether this was late-game heroics or rubber-band logic at play. I was thinking that maybe it's an all-pro higher difficulty type thing, but if I move down to pro, I am afraid there will be no challenge, especially since I just about beat a decent team on all-pro.
Any thoughts, opinions, suggestions, queries?

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I think you should just stay at all-pro and take your loss. Pro been to be considered to be really easy and is. However in this situation it really doesn't seem like comeback logic at work.

ESPN last year did not have an insane comeback logic but in certain games, momentum changes on a play and that can lead to losses.

Also your game plan wasn't the best in the world you threw it sounds like over 7 passes in under 3:00. Why? You should worry more about time management then stats, In that span of time you could have run the clock with the running game.

[FiveByFive]

Im sure rubber band AI isnt in game...thats EA's thing.


besides I never once felt cheated in 2k4...Im sure 2k5 doesnt all of a sudden have it in there.

[schel]

Quote:

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bdunn13 said:
"Any thoughts, opinions, suggestions, queries? "

It takes a million dollar + super comptuer to be fast enough to beat a world class chess player(and the computer still gets a few minutes to think). Imagine coding AI that can run in real time on a 150 buck console.

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Sort of off topic for me again, but this really doesn't have much to do with the game. Most of the time AI for chess isn't really complicated (conceptually). It essentially checks millions of game combinations and chooses the best one, usually by a point system. The hard part for the programmer is optimizing the routines so the lookups take as little time as possible. That's the only reason it takes so long, it's just brute force. Coding AI for a game is a whole different beast.

As for the comeback code, like everyone said, it's hard to make an assessment based on a couple games. Things to look for are more frequent fumbles, perfect passes by the QB, and your DBs doing odd things you've never seen before. In other words, things you can't control. Play calling and throwing INTs is a bit different.

[RoyalBoyle78]

immortal- what just happened to you in your game is what its all about, I love when the computer plays like that, call it what ever you may, I say play beeter D, plus don't throw INT's

[Eddie_420]

Quote:

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immortal said:
In today's gaming world, sometimes it becomes increasingly difficult to distinguish between rubber-band AI logic and late game pressure. In MVP baseball, on MVP difficulty, regardless of where the pitches are thrown, if you are up big late in a game, the cpu will somehow "manage" to string together hit after hit until the game becomes competitive. This is definitely rubber-band AI, which has become apparent in many EA Sports games. Visual Concepts has always been known for their late-game pressure, making it feel more realistic and not just the cpu trying to make the game competitive in any way possible. However, last night, I am not sure if I encountered the former or the latter.
I was the Jets playing against the Saints. With 3:31 left in the game, I was enjoying a 27-13 lead with the ball (thanks in part to Sam Cowart's 4 INT's - All-Pro difficulty with default sliders). Anyway, after dropping 2 wide-open passes, I punted. 2 plays later, the score was 27-20 after a 45-yard TD reception by Joe Horn. With a little over 2 minutes left, I get the ball back and proceed to throw an INT on second down deep in my own territory. Once again, 2 plays later, they score, tying the game. In less than 2 minutes, they doubled their score to tie the game. I got the ball back and started driving but got stopped around mid-field. I punted and the cpu regained possession with under 1:20 to play. After killing some time, they had the ball on my 30 on 3rd down with under :30. They complete a 10-yard pass, which would have given them first down, but a penalty was called for an illegal forward pass. They challenged and surprisingly, they overturned the call. So now they are on my 20 with under :20, but with their kicker already missing one fg within 30 yards, the cpu felt the need to complete another bullet pass on the sideline and get out of bounds with :03, setting up the game-winning chip shot fg and my 30-27 loss.
Now usually, I would just take the loss and move on. But I couldn't help but think to myself whether this was late-game heroics or rubber-band logic at play. I was thinking that maybe it's an all-pro higher difficulty type thing, but if I move down to pro, I am afraid there will be no challenge, especially since I just about beat a decent team on all-pro.
Any thoughts, opinions, suggestions, queries?

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i don't think the game is cheating you. i just think you don't know what the hell your doing. sorry to be so blunt but if you're the o coordinator of my team (the packers) i'd be calling for your job if you pulled crap like that. in the end of the game you shouldn't be passing like that. just for playing like that, i htink you deserved exactly what happened to you.have a nice day