Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

[DarthRambo]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

I haven't taken the time check CPU vs CPU as far as regenerating goes. But there is also an issue with pitchers not losing enough stamina in simmed games at times. I've had this happen a few times where Kershaw, Scherzer and Price have went 9 innings and started game 4 on short rest. I'm fairly sure CPU vs CPU pitchers regain stamina at the same rate (10% per day) as user vs CPU. But I think CPU vs CPU don't lose enough.



And during the playoffs I don't think there is any issue. It's just giving the pitchers more stamina to work with.

You must sim games with SP and RP stamina at zero. If not you'll see 3-5 complete games every calendar day. I have SP stamina at 6 and RP stamina at 0 for games played in my season. I saved two slider sets for simmed and played games.

I load up the one before I simulate cpu vs cpu games, then load the other to play my game. I created a thread in the sliders forum about pitcher stamina that explains more.

Now I have not yet reached the playoffs in my franchise but I feel I can workaround this issue.

#1 Raising SP stamina to 10 for both cpu/hum for games played will be one. Have strict pitch counts based on stamina rating.

#2 If the stamina rating is 78 then that pitcher can only pitch ~78 pitches.

#3 Team select to control the cpu team in order to enforce strict pitch count and use bullpens more effectively. I do this already in the regular season since the cpu does not value L/R matchups.

[Jr.]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

You must sim games with SP and RP stamina at zero. If not you'll see 3-5 complete games every calendar day. I have SP stamina at 6 and RP stamina at 0 for games played in my season. I saved two slider sets for simmed and played games.

I load up the one before I simulate cpu vs cpu games, then load the other to play my game. I created a thread in the sliders forum about pitcher stamina that explains more.

Now I have not yet reached the playoffs in my franchise but I feel I can workaround this issue.

#1 Raising SP stamina to 10 for both cpu/hum for games played will be one. Have strict pitch counts based on stamina rating.

#2 If the stamina rating is 78 then that pitcher can only pitch ~78 pitches.

#3 Team select to control the cpu team in order to enforce strict pitch count and use bullpens more effectively. I do this already in the regular season since the cpu does not value L/R matchups.

Just reacting to the bold, but that's not true. I have it at 2 or 3 in my sim sliders and the top pitcher had 7 complete games this year. While team totals were still higher than normal, I never saw more than 2 in a given calendar day. At 0, my starters weren't recovering well and I saw more 4 IP 2 ER games than my liking.

[DarthRambo]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Just reacting to the bold, but that's not true. I have it at 2 or 3 in my sim sliders and the top pitcher had 7 complete games this year. While team totals were still higher than normal, I never saw more than 2 in a given calendar day. At 0, my starters weren't recovering well and I saw more 4 IP 2 ER games than my liking.

I still see a good amount of complete games with it at 0. And total IP in a season was much better which fewer guys over 200ip etc. ERAs were fine too in the test season I ran a while back.

While I'm sure there will be more short outings by starters, the CGs and IP are still much more realistic from what I saw.

I'm at June 25th in my franchise now. Leader in CG is Anibal Sanchez with 4. Matt Cain and Samardzija have 3. And 12 others have two CGs. Team leaders are Tigers witg 7, Rangers and Giants have 5. That seems reasonable to me...

[N51_rob]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

I'm understanding the "why" part. I like the idea of letting us use a 4 man rotation in the postseason, but I'm missing the "how" making pitchers recover much more slowly actually helps do that. It helps the opposite - it forces you to use a 5/6 man rotation.

Yeah I agree with you completely. But SCEA isn't saying anything else about it. Clearly something is "broken" in the code. Having a guy after 6 days rest at less than 85% stamina doesn't work as far as facilitating a 4 man rotation.

[Jr.]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

I still see a good amount of complete games with it at 0. And total IP in a season was much better which fewer guys over 200ip etc. ERAs were fine too in the test season I ran a while back.

While I'm sure there will be more short outings by starters, the CGs and IP are still much more realistic from what I saw.

I'm at June 25th in my franchise now. Leader in CG is Anibal Sanchez with 4. Matt Cain and Samardzija have 3. And 12 others have two CGs. Team leaders are Tigers witg 7, Rangers and Giants have 5. That seems reasonable to me...

I can imagine that it does work in the grand scheme. But I think it becomes unrealistic in the other direction with starters being pulled too early, too often.

It's a balance and measure of preference. I'm okay with a few more CGs and more IP

[FSanchez12]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

I enjoy the challenge that it gives by trying to finagle starting pitcher stamina in the playoffs, but I gotta say, after a 15 inning bout with the Mets in the NLCS, I need to win game 6 in the worst way. A loss forcing game 7 with my already decimated bullpen is gonna screw me for the WS if I would happen to advance. I'm already pitching Gerrit Cole in game 6 at 93% because I don't have another starter above 70% and my long reliever option is toasted too. This is fun, but it's starting to get on my nerves here, especially when I had the division locked up early in September and pitched a 6 man rotation through the rest of the season.

[Herschie]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

I really hope this has been fixed for 16. As nice as 15 is, this is totally unrealistic, especially when my pitchers have full-rest between starts. I don't think I've ever seen a five-man rotation in the playoffs. Usually it's three. Sometimes four. As a Cub fan, Frey used a 4-man rotation in '84, Zimmer used 3 in '89, and Dusty Baker used 4 in 2003. Maddon also went with 4 this past year, and I'm almost certain he would have gone back to Lester in game 5 if needed.

I apologize if it's been mentioned already, there's a ton of info out on 16, and I might have missed it.

[jb12780]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

I really hope this has been fixed for 16. As nice as 15 is, this is totally unrealistic, especially when my pitchers have full-rest between starts. I don't think I've ever seen a five-man rotation in the playoffs. Usually it's three. Sometimes four. As a Cub fan, Frey used a 4-man rotation in '84, Zimmer used 3 in '89, and Dusty Baker used 4 in 2003. Maddon also went with 4 this past year, and I'm almost certain he would have gone back to Lester in game 5 if needed.

I apologize if it's been mentioned already, there's a ton of info out on 16, and I might have missed it.

The dev team admitted they went a bit over the top last year and it has been balanced for 16.

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[Bobhead]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

The dev team admitted they went a bit over the top last year and it has been balanced for 16.

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In what stream/thread/whatever did this statement get made? Have a link? Not that I doubt you I'd just like to see/hear the discussion for myself

[redsox4evur]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

In what stream/thread/whatever did this statement get made? Have a link? Not that I doubt you I'd just like to see/hear the discussion for myself

It's in the franchise stream thread.

[Herschie]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

The dev team admitted they went a bit over the top last year and it has been balanced for 16.

Awesome, thanks. I'm psyched for 16, seems like a cleaner version of 15.

[lvann4x]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Umm, I'm playing MLB 16 The Show and Cole Hamels, 93 STAM, 78 DUR, is at around 73% energy after 106 pitches and 4 days rest in the divisional round. That's still a bit of a steep penalty. If he was 90% +, I wouldn't even be on the forum. I read all the way through 20 pages until I realized these were complaints on 15 The Show. Still a bit off in my opinion.

[Vtownwaves]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Umm, I'm playing MLB 16 The Show and Cole Hamels, 93 STAM, 78 DUR, is at around 73% energy after 106 pitches and 4 days rest in the divisional round. That's still a bit of a steep penalty. If he was 90% +, I wouldn't even be on the forum. I read all the way through 20 pages until I realized these were complaints on 15 The Show. Still a bit off in my opinion.

I dont want to go off on a rant or anything but...

93 stamina means you get EXAUSTED by 93 pitches give or take. If the pitcher has quality stuff, they can survive past then, but they got nothing in the tank really, just using command and guile to get by. You threw an extra 13%(13 pitches) on top of that give or take. If he was pulled at 93, you may well be closer to 90% by the amount of time that passed between games. But you went DEEP into reserves, literally gave the proverbial "110%".

So he gave more than he had, in the playoffs(granted early), and you checked on short rest. Standard rotation in the reg season is 5 man, pitchers usually get at least that many days between starts, 6 with a day off in the schedule. So he's not even getting full rest, he's getting one day short of that. You will never be 100% in the playoffs as progressive fatigue has set in from the season. So If you had gotten done in 90 pitches or pulled by then, he may have been 90%, prolly 85% on 4 days.

Sounds like its on point to me, maybe a tiny bit too much, but I'd rather see too little energy than too much. That would allow dominant starting pitchers to overpower other teams too easily. Prolly woulda been better around 77% but woulda been fine seeing 75%. You got a margin of + or - 2, thats pretty good. Also take into account the age and time of service for cole hammels. He's got stamina but hes no spring chicken(turns 33 in dec) and has been pitching professionally full time for a decade(11 year counting shorter rookie season). He's got good recovery at 78 durability, but he isnt the best of the best over 90 or anything.

Everything has to be accounted for...

[lvann4x]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

I dont want to go off on a rant or anything but...

93 stamina means you get EXAUSTED by 93 pitches give or take. If the pitcher has quality stuff, they can survive past then, but they got nothing in the tank really, just using command and guile to get by. You threw an extra 13%(13 pitches) on top of that give or take. If he was pulled at 93, you may well be closer to 90% by the amount of time that passed between games. But you went DEEP into reserves, literally gave the proverbial "110%".

So he gave more than he had, in the playoffs(granted early), and you checked on short rest. Standard rotation in the reg season is 5 man, pitchers usually get at least that many days between starts, 6 with a day off in the schedule. So he's not even getting full rest, he's getting one day short of that. You will never be 100% in the playoffs as progressive fatigue has set in from the season. So If you had gotten done in 90 pitches or pulled by then, he may have been 90%, prolly 85% on 4 days.

Sounds like its on point to me, maybe a tiny bit too much, but I'd rather see too little energy than too much. That would allow dominant starting pitchers to overpower other teams too easily. Prolly woulda been better around 77% but woulda been fine seeing 75%. You got a margin of + or - 2, thats pretty good. Also take into account the age and time of service for cole hammels. He's got stamina but hes no spring chicken(turns 33 in dec) and has been pitching professionally full time for a decade(11 year counting shorter rookie season). He's got good recovery at 78 durability, but he isnt the best of the best over 90 or anything.

Everything has to be accounted for...

4 days rest is STANDARD rest. Not 5. 5 is with a day off. Your math is wrong.
Monday Hamels Pitches. Tuesday #2 SP. Wednesday #3 SP. Thursday #4 SP. Friday #5 SP. Saturday Hamels Pitches Again.
Hamels pitched on Monday, he rested TUE, WED, THU, FRI, which means 4 (four) days rest. If there was an off day AND they didn't skip a pitcher, he'd have 5 (five) days rest.
Cole Hamels pitched more games in 2015 on 4 days rest than on 5, 6, or more days rest COMBINED. Check Baseball Reference.
Also, if the 93 STAMINA rating means he's EXHAUSTED after 93 pitches, it's a ludicrous system. 99 is the max rating, which means the game doesn't support ANY pitchers who can go even 100 pitches without being exhausted. While one could argue that no such pitcher exists, one would have a hard time arguing that the average MLB SP is exhausted around 85 pitches.
Many SP in MLB The Show have stamina in the 80's or 70's, which means that the average MLB starter is exhausted at 85 pitches (before the 6th inning is over judging by MLB average Pitches/IP).
Go to Baseball Reference and look at Hamels' Game Log for 2015. He went well over 100 pitches multiple times on 4 days rest, even in September.
Surely, no one who knows baseball can tell me with a straight face that a Starting Pitcher who has well above average stamina (93/99) and is in average physical condition for a pro athlete (78/99 DUR) won't be NEAR 100% on 4 days rest, which is the standard amount of rest. The amount of rest a throwing program is built on.

[lvann4x]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Hell, Chi Chi Gonzalez, who has a Stamina rating of 71 averaged 95 Pitches per start in his rookie year of 2015. So the Rangers took a 23 year old rookie 20 pitches past exhaustion on a regular basis last year?
Same with Nick Martinez, Stamina 74, who averaged 98 pitches/GS last year.
I understand that SCEA may use Stamina to indicate a player's ability to be effective late into games, but effectiveness should be reflected in the players stuff, command, etc, not by making an MLB SP exhausted after 70 pitches, nor by making him take 5+ days to get back to near 100%.