Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

[Sgexpat]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Hell, Chi Chi Gonzalez, who has a Stamina rating of 71 averaged 95 Pitches per start in his rookie year of 2015. So the Rangers took a 23 year old rookie 20 pitches past exhaustion on a regular basis last year?
Same with Nick Martinez, Stamina 74, who averaged 98 pitches/GS last year.
I understand that SCEA may use Stamina to indicate a player's ability to be effective late into games, but effectiveness should be reflected in the players stuff, command, etc, not by making an MLB SP exhausted after 70 pitches, nor by making him take 5+ days to get back to near 100%.

It's not 1:1 as indicated by some comments. As far as I can tell around 75 stamina they are effective until 90 pitches / 80 around 100 pitches / 90 around 105/110 pitches. Even 99 appears tired by 115 pitches most of the time. The upper end should be more generous. Also IP seems to supersede pitch count as no matter how few pitches you throw it will give you a "pitcher X is getting tired" remark in the 9th or 10th.

That said its not terribly far off given how infrequent it is to find guys who do not tire out by 110 pitches in MLB

[Vtownwaves]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

My bad, 4 days is standard rest. It was late at night, not a good enough excuse for that mistake. Still, just because someone CAN throw 90+ pitches(even on avg), doesnt mean they can throw it every start, especially after a full season. He prolly should have been in the 80% range for stamina with those adjustments in mind. 85 woulda been ideal.

But its the playoffs, progressive fatigue has to set in sometime, especially after 30+ starts. He's almost 33 when pitchers start to fall off a cliff, and had 10 full years of starting pitching. He's not the same guy he was 5 years ago. The mlb is different now than it ever was in the past. MOST pitchers dont throw more than 100 a game unless a complete game is in sight.

Even if 93 stamina isnt exacty 93 pitches, I know from experience playing the game that the number on stamina is usually the pitch number that the player "starts getting tired". So maybe 93 stamina is closer to 100 pitches. Still, everything else needs to be taken into consideration. You got a raw deal, maybe he shoulda been 80% but certainly not 90...

[KBLover]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

To my knowledge, Stamina + Durability work together to set duration. Durability seems to impact how much pitches take out of him, or perhaps the effect of "high stress" innings where that inning's pitch count gets high (not sure how "high" is high, but I figure 20-30 pitches is probably where the cutoff is). I think of it like Stamina = how many "energy points" a pitcher has and Durability is how many "energy points" a pitch costs and how quickly that cost accelerates in a high-stress inning.

Of course, I could be wrong, but it seems to be the case from watching how my pitchers go, especially in my carryover where most guys have high stamina.

Pitcher fatigue in the playoffs is probably overdone, especially if he's far from ready on normal rest, but it does highlight the high endurance starters and makes that aspect quite valuable. A workhorse has good value after all, especially if he's solidly above average.

I don't know that age is taken into consideration. I don't notice my younger guys recovering faster (or tiring less) than any older guys. It would make sense if it did (though that should be captured in the individual's ratings instead of catch-all treatment).

If IP supersedes pitch count, that's something that probably should change, especially if the guy is able to breeze through innings. A pitcher shouldn't be more tired throwing 90 pitches in 9 innings than in 6 innings (or less in the case of a particularly laborious outing), imo.

[N51_rob]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

So why was this bumped back. SCEA has acknowledged they overtuned playoff stamina and have since corrected it.


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[Jr.]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

So why was this bumped back. SCEA has acknowledged they overtuned playoff stamina and have since corrected it.


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It wasn't corrected. It works the same as last year; which means it's not working properly.

[N51_rob]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Thanks Jr. hadn't been following that closely. Please carry on all, my apologies.


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[JPCaveman13]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Don't fully quote me on this but I think I saw somewhere that it was tweaked some so it wasn't as bad as MLB 15 but it's still mostly off for us though. I can understand the intentions behind it (some SPs have logged 200+ IP so there's some fatigue there), however, I highly doubt any manager would push off a start by an ace for more than 4 days rest in the playoffs.

The thing that actually gets me on this (aside from the RTTS aspect of going in Game 1 and Game 6 or Game 7, while your opposite starter will go again in Game 4 or Game 5) is that in the playoffs, the AI manager will rotate the staff to have a fresh starter. During the regular season, if there is an adjustment to the rotation from call-up/send-down/DL, there's a chance that the same pitcher will be trotted out two days in a row.

[Bobhead]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

My bad, 4 days is standard rest. It was late at night, not a good enough excuse for that mistake. Still, just because someone CAN throw 90+ pitches(even on avg), doesnt mean they can throw it every start, especially after a full season. He prolly should have been in the 80% range for stamina with those adjustments in mind. 85 woulda been ideal.

But its the playoffs, progressive fatigue has to set in sometime, especially after 30+ starts. He's almost 33 when pitchers start to fall off a cliff, and had 10 full years of starting pitching. He's not the same guy he was 5 years ago. The mlb is different now than it ever was in the past. MOST pitchers dont throw more than 100 a game unless a complete game is in sight.

Even if 93 stamina isnt exacty 93 pitches, I know from experience playing the game that the number on stamina is usually the pitch number that the player "starts getting tired". So maybe 93 stamina is closer to 100 pitches. Still, everything else needs to be taken into consideration. You got a raw deal, maybe he shoulda been 80% but certainly not 90...

There's so many things wrong with this:

1) The assumption that all pitchers in the playoffs made 30+ starts. Why is my pitcher fresh off the DL fatiguing at the same rate as my ace that pitched 220 innings already? Why is my third pitcher for whom I managed innings and kept under 150 also fatiguing at the same rate as those three?

2) The assumption that the reason pitchers don't throw 100 pitches in real life is because of fatigue. False. The primary reason pitchers are taken out that early is because batters gain an advantage each subsequent time they face you, see here:

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2014/3/12/5497406/times-through-the-order-revisited-gb-and-fb-pitchers

3) There's no "variable" stamina system, so you suggest that someone can't throw 90+ "every start" but the current system is fixed and prevents it from happening at all, even once.

4) Similarly, there's no variability in application. 33 year old pitchers hit this nonsense fatigue wall just as quickly as 23 year old pitchers do.

This "feature" is objectively terrible. People can conjure up reverse-engineered defenses of it but at the end of the day it is the opposite of realistic and the game would be better served if playoff stamina just worked normally, as it does the rest of the year.

[Jr.]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Don't fully quote me on this but I think I saw somewhere that it was tweaked some so it wasn't as bad as MLB 15 but it's still mostly off for us though. I can understand the intentions behind it (some SPs have logged 200+ IP so there's some fatigue there), however, I highly doubt any manager would push off a start by an ace for more than 4 days rest in the playoffs.

The thing that actually gets me on this (aside from the RTTS aspect of going in Game 1 and Game 6 or Game 7, while your opposite starter will go again in Game 4 or Game 5) is that in the playoffs, the AI manager will rotate the staff to have a fresh starter. During the regular season, if there is an adjustment to the rotation from call-up/send-down/DL, there's a chance that the same pitcher will be trotted out two days in a row.

There's really no defense in this for me. They fundamentally change how SPs recover in the playoffs. My SPs are rarely not at full strength in the regular season if I keep them to a reasonable pitch count no matter how many innings they've thrown throughout the season. My pitcher recovers the same after his first start as he does after his 30th. In the playoffs, it takes a full week for my SP to recover. It's like the days have gotten 5 hours shorter once the playoffs hit.

It's just broken and they won't fix it. The most frustrating part is that they admitted it wasn't right before the game came out and lied about fixing it.

[Grinder12000]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

I think they are on to other things now and MLB is not in the cross hairs for fixes anymore. Probably working on brand new "next year" stuff.

[oldtimey]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

For The Show 15, I found that maxing out the starters stamina slider helped a lot during the playoffs. For the regular season, my starter stamina is set on 4. After seeing King Felix get lifted from his second playoff start after 5 IP, 70 pitches with a lead that the Mariners bullpen blew against the White Sox, I moved the starters stamina slider from 4 to 10. The next playoff game I saw (cpu vs cpu) with the new slider setting, the Cardinals jumped on Kershaw early, scoring 2 runs in the first. The Dodgers came back, took the lead, and Kershaw got right and shut down the Cards, going all the way. They didn't have a baserunning from the 4th inning on. That was the only complete game of my postseason, but in all of the rest of the games, the starters were handled normally. Oh, and the Dodgers won the World Series, beating the White Sox in 7. Give it try in The Show 16. I will when I get to the postseason in a couple of months. It didn't seem to matter what the starters' stamina meter read. In-game, the cpu made moves based on effectiveness early and pitch count later, like usual.

[lvann4x]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

They just need to "de-tune" postseason pitcher stamina and make it like the regular season. If they're worried about online league guys taking advantage of it somehow, that's kind of silly. In any online league I've played in, no matter the sport, there are ground rules. If a member is cheesing or playing non-sim in a sim league (i.e. using a SP on 2 days rest and going 100 pitches each outing), then that player is kicked out.
SURELY, they see that this is a ludicrous system and needs to be removed, and SURELY it's a relatively easy thing to revert it to the regular season fatigue model. SURELY, they can fix it by MLB 17 at the latest. The nuts and bolts of a sport should be the focus.

[ballin095]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Yep still having the issue here. Thought it was just a bug with my game or something but yeah my starters are still not 100% after 4 days, sometimes even 5 days rest in the postseason. Only workaround is to put the starter and reliever stamina sliders at 10.

Edit: It also makes facing the cpu less realistic in that they fail to use 4 man rotations in the postseason. smh

[jmcole33]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

I know this has been said before, but the fact that the CPU fails to use a 4 man rotation in the playoffs is infuriating. Really feels like I'm cheating the game and it really takes away from the experience.

Game 5 of NLDS: Huge showdown to advance to the next round.... CY Young Winner Noah Syndergaard squaring off against...... John Lackey? Talk about a buzz kill

[KBLover]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

I know this has been said before, but the fact that the CPU fails to use a 4 man rotation in the playoffs is infuriating. Really feels like I'm cheating the game and it really takes away from the experience.

Hmm...in my NLDS in my carryover, the CPU team did use a 4-man rotation. I went back to my ace in game 5 and much to my surprise, so did the Giants (CPU team).

Granted in that league there's not as much difference between 1 and 5 as in real life, but both teams did use a 4-man rotation.

I was also surprised to see my ace at full energy.

Some interesting stuff - not sure why it worked out different there.