Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

[Fours]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Rather than multi-quote and reply....

- I was quoting a poster who said..."ask Mad-Bum or Shilling"....as if pitchers were going 8 or 9 innings with regularity in the playoffs....

-I've said in other threads.....while it might be a number of managerial and player factors that lead to lower inning thrown by starters in the playoffs....

I will ask you guys....how would you keep the USER from pitching 9 innings with his top three starters and handcuff the CPU with other logic(quicker hooks etc) and keep it fair?
What mechanism are you suggesting to put in place to keep me from pitching Harvey 9 innings in three games with REGULARITY as the manager of the Mets...
when the average of IP per starter in the playoffs is 5.65.
That's a pretty big USER advantage.

M.K.
Knight165

Good stuff, I like where this is going now.

First off, can you in fact go 9 innings three straight games with Harvey on 3/4 days rest? I honestly don't know.

And I'm talking sim style, not this 85% strikes, 80 pitch complete game nonsense.

In fact, we can only work through this if we assume that the user has the difficulty and sliders set up to create a realistic simulation. If a guy plays 6 games/month and sims the rest, and his personal winning percentage is .950, and the team goes .500 then he's going to be undefeated in the playoffs and none of this matters.

If it's set up in a balanced way, then the playoff games will be tight, and when the user gives up a hit/walk to the leadoff hitter in the 6th inning with 2,3,4 coming up, with an elevated pitch count due to pitching around some of the best hitters in baseball, my bullpen will be scrambling without a second thought.

So I would say there's nothing to be done here on the user side. For the most part the user creates the reality he wants.

For CPU adjustments, clearly they should be more inclined to play small ball, and they should have less patience in terms of leaving pitchers out there. They should also shorten the rotation, including in season where they never skip the 5th starter no matter how many days off since #1 pitched.

For those interested in pitch counts, the MLB average is always around 145/g with a game to game variance of about 100 bottom end to 200 top.

[NimitsTexan]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Not a bug this was changed to help facilitate 4 man rotations

But that is the opposite of what it is doing . . . I guess I am not understanding something here.

[gman2774]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Its not as bad (if you raise the stamina sliders) as it seemd to me at first. But i think it should just stay like it is during the regular season. With the stamina slider all the way up. Jason Vargas went 6 innings and under 90 pitches. Was about 90% energy for his next start.

But wouldn't raising the stamina skew the pitchers true in-game ability? Especially later in the game? Meaning a pitcher would be much more effective at 100 pitches with stamina at 10 vs. default 5?

[Smallville102001]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

But wouldn't raising the stamina skew the pitchers true in-game ability? Especially later in the game? Meaning a pitcher would be much more effective at 100 pitches with stamina at 10 vs. default 5?

While 10 may be to high but at 5 stamina is to low any way. The starter stamina should be at 6 or 7 any way as even a pitcher with 99 stamina cant really go past 100 pitches even if he is pitching great.

[Smallville102001]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Good stuff, I like where this is going now.

First off, can you in fact go 9 innings three straight games with Harvey on 3/4 days rest? I honestly don't know.

And I'm talking sim style, not this 85% strikes, 80 pitch complete game nonsense.

In fact, we can only work through this if we assume that the user has the difficulty and sliders set up to create a realistic simulation. If a guy plays 6 games/month and sims the rest, and his personal winning percentage is .950, and the team goes .500 then he's going to be undefeated in the playoffs and none of this matters.

If it's set up in a balanced way, then the playoff games will be tight, and when the user gives up a hit/walk to the leadoff hitter in the 6th inning with 2,3,4 coming up, with an elevated pitch count due to pitching around some of the best hitters in baseball, my bullpen will be scrambling without a second thought.

So I would say there's nothing to be done here on the user side. For the most part the user creates the reality he wants.

For CPU adjustments, clearly they should be more inclined to play small ball, and they should have less patience in terms of leaving pitchers out there. They should also shorten the rotation, including in season where they never skip the 5th starter no matter how many days off since #1 pitched.

For those interested in pitch counts, the MLB average is always around 145/g with a game to game variance of about 100 bottom end to 200 top.

Question does the CPU have a quicker hook in playoffs? Or should you adjust that slider in playoffs?

[Fours]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Question does the CPU have a quicker hook in playoffs? Or should you adjust that slider in playoffs?

Great question, I haven't been to the playoffs other than a quick test to check out the stamina issue.

[Bobhead]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Rather than multi-quote and reply....

- I was quoting a poster who said..."ask Mad-Bum or Shilling"....as if pitchers were going 8 or 9 innings with regularity in the playoffs....

-I've said in other threads.....while it might be a number of managerial and player factors that lead to lower inning thrown by starters in the playoffs....

I will ask you guys....how would you keep the USER from pitching 9 innings with his top three starters and handcuff the CPU with other logic(quicker hooks etc) and keep it fair?
What mechanism are you suggesting to put in place to keep me from pitching Harvey 9 innings in three games with REGULARITY as the manager of the Mets...
when the average of IP per starter in the playoffs is 5.65.
That's a pretty big USER advantage.

M.K.
Knight165

As for your last paragraph. I'd first need to see evidence that this is even happening, because I wasn't aware of such a problem in previous years, so I can't help but think SCEA was fixing a problem that didn't exist or need fixing.

I mean if starting pitcher stamina depletes and recovers at a realistic rate, wouldn't that alone be all we need? Why would a realistic stamina system produce anything other than realistic results?

If not... one idea is to give a penalty (ratings reduction/increase in injury susceptibility, whatever...) to any pitcher that is brought to 40% or less (assigned after the game, not during). And that penalty stays on the pitcher until they have fully recovered back to 100%

So Matt Harvey pitches game 1, and finishes it. After the game, since he's below 40%, the game reduces his pitching abilties by... 15%? That flat 15% penalty stays with him regardless of his stamina on any particular day, and is only lifted when he is fully recovered, on day 4/5.

Kinda like the turbo system in some video games, where if you use too much turbo you end up screwing yourself over.

[gilly11]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

This was the most frustrating thing in this game for me. Pretty much every other aspect is well done, but the fact that this happens after grinding through such a long season is crushing and baffling.

Watch the playoffs, there is more time off, and more pitchers used for more specific roles (throwing less pitches), than the regular season. So the fact that they recover more slowly makes 0 sense.

With that being said, I won the world series my first year after tinkering with my rotation in the WS (multiple starters for a few innings a game), but it didn't feel good and definitely wasn't realistic. It was frustrating not being able to throw David Price in game 5 after having 8 days of rest from game 1.

Please patch this!

[Smallville102001]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

As for your last paragraph. I'd first need to see evidence that this is even happening, because I wasn't aware of such a problem in previous years, so I can't help but think SCEA was fixing a problem that didn't exist or need fixing.

I mean if starting pitcher stamina depletes and recovers at a realistic rate, wouldn't that alone be all we need? Why would a realistic stamina system produce anything other than realistic results?

If not... one idea is to give a penalty (ratings reduction/increase in injury susceptibility, whatever...) to any pitcher that is brought to 40% or less (assigned after the game, not during). And that penalty stays on the pitcher until they have fully recovered back to 100%

So Matt Harvey pitches game 1, and finishes it. After the game, since he's below 40%, the game reduces his pitching abilties by... 15%? That flat 15% penalty stays with him regardless of his stamina on any particular day, and is only lifted when he is fully recovered, on day 4/5.

Kinda like the turbo system in some video games, where if you use too much turbo you end up screwing yourself over.

That is a interesting idea.

[sooner1]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Stamina is an issue in regular season too if you play every game. Been this way for years.

[Smallville102001]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Stamina is an issue in regular season too if you play every game. Been this way for years.

with position players yeah with pitchers no and really I don't think the position player stamina is really and issue.

[Fours]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

I would love to just get away from this stamina bar mentality completely.

It leads people to think that after a 100 pitch start, the pitcher is somehow disabled and slowly gains back the ability to throw another 100 pitches.

A typical throwing program goes like this:

Game Day: Get anti-inflammatory shot pregame, Pitch.

Day 1: Rest, massage/ultasound, jog/cardio workout, easy catch, no mound, no long toss.

Day 2: Long easy warmup, some long toss, easy weight lifting, more running, weight training.

Day 3: Throw bullpen, 80% effort, throw 40-50% of how many pitches you threw last start(So essentially this is exactly what Bumgarner did in game 7, he threw his bullpen session in a live game, not quite as amazing now, is it?)

Day 4: Repeat Day 1, add some light long toss.

Day 5 is game day.

In a 4 man playoff rotation, days 1 and 2 combine, and everything else stays the same. Bullpen might be lighter if you've got arm fatigue or soreness. But as for how you feel by game day, it's exactly the same as a 5 day program, you're not 20% more tired.

4 days off is only to prevent the kind of damage that happens over years, not days or weeks. Tomohiro Anraku threw 772 pitches over five games in nine days, including 232 in one game(A lot of Japanese pitchers get abused like that, that's why they break down before they turn 30).

Get rid of the stamina bar, show us a graphic of his fraying UCL and labrum tearing so we can abuse them and time it so the arm falls apart right after the Yankees sign them away from us.

[koberocks1]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Is this true for online franchise too?

[Steven78]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Currently what penalties/disadvantages are given to a pitcher with no or very low energy?

Just curious.

[N51_rob]

Re: Starting Pitcher stamina in playoffs

Currently what penalties/disadvantages are given to a pitcher with no or very low energy?

Just curious.

Loss of speed/control on fastballs. Loss of control/break on breaking pitches, and off-speed pitches.