I'm gunna be perfectly honest man, you lost this game on your own. You were sloppy and very quick. Your Location on your pitches was way off, on the higher difficulty's EVERYTHING SHOULD BE LOW and around the corner/off the corners.
Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment
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Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment
I'm gunna be perfectly honest man, you lost this game on your own. You were sloppy and very quick. Your Location on your pitches was way off, on the higher difficulty's EVERYTHING SHOULD BE LOW and around the corner/off the corners.NCAAM: Wichita State Shockers
MLB: Kansas City Royals (AL) Milwaukee Brewers (NL)
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Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment
I took the box scores from my last 61 games and just wanted to share the stats.
Percentage of total runs scored by inning. (Tried to cut/paste from Excel)
6% 14% 11% 13% 16% 9% 9% 9% 14%
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Percentage of times the CPU scored in the next half inning after the user scored - 6% out of 549 innings.
It's not clear by these that there would be any kind of set code, but these are just stats from my games and it's only 61 games worth. It's not really a large enough sample size to get very accurate numbers. Just throwing it out there to add some data to the discussion.
(All-Star with meter pitching)Comment
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Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment
Just had a casual game I was playing on All-Star where the CPU rallied from down 7-4, while down to its last strike multiple times. First batter pops out, second batter K's, third batter hits a foul pop that just barely inches its way into the seats, then the floodgates open. Two walks on long AB's with a ton of foul-offs, a hit batter and finally a bases-clearing double. After they tied it I actually paused to the game to confirm that it really was on All-Star and not HOF, because that was right out of HOF difficulty's playbook (not to mention the Cubs' playbook on how to lose games...)
I did eventually end up winning the game after escaping that with the game tied.
It is what it is - comebacks and big innings are going to happen on any level, and I don't believe it has to do with any specific code. What I know is this - if the CPU can make such an egregious rally happen on All-Star, then I KNOW it is going to happen on the difficulties that are even higher than that, and probably with a far higher frequency than what would be considered normal over the course of a season. I think people underestimate All-Star's challenge level a little bit sometimes.
I did save the video if anyone wants to see it - it's pretty wild especially when it just fouls off pitch after pitch.
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PSN:jb12780Comment
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Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment
Please don't make these type of posts. They do nothing to further the discussion. If you don't believe rubber band ai exists, and I don't, then there is no reason to reply to thread unless you're trying to offer assistance to those seeing the issue. Posts like these only stall and derail threads.
This thread is for open discussion on the idea of rubber band ai and CPU boosts, and trying to gain feedback from those seeing it in an attempt to find common factors that may in turn allow us to find a possible solution.
Thanks
I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.
I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(
Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis CardinalsComment
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Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment
I took the box scores from my last 61 games and just wanted to share the stats.
Percentage of total runs scored by inning. (Tried to cut/paste from Excel)
6% 14% 11% 13% 16% 9% 9% 9% 14%
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Percentage of times the CPU scored in the next half inning after the user scored - 6% out of 549 innings.
It's not clear by these that there would be any kind of set code, but these are just stats from my games and it's only 61 games worth. It's not really a large enough sample size to get very accurate numbers. Just throwing it out there to add some data to the discussion.
(All-Star with meter pitching)
*update* Just got done playing 2 games of my franchise in Oakland. In the first game my pitcher gave up 6 runs on 8 hits in the 2nd inning. I swapped him out and still lost 7-4. Oh well. So next game I have King Felix on the mound. He has only given up 2 hits and 0 ER through 8 2/3. He gives up a soft single so I decide to bring in Rodney to close out the game. Rodney gives up a hit to the gap and now runners are on 2nd and 3rd with 2 outs and I'm leading by 2. The next pitch is a game ending grounder to SS who performs a classic o'le on the ball and 2 runs score. Next pitcher and next pitch is a game ending HR. So just like that I was one out away from a shutout only to lose. Do I blame the game? Or do I try to figure out of something changed in the confidence of my team when Felix gave up that hit. Now the team is on edge with 2 runners on and still needing one more out. Next hit is a grounder to short who botches the ball. Is that 'code' or just a change in team confidence? What could I have done different to keep the momentum in my favor? Keep Felix in at over 100 pitches and no energy? Possibly.
EDIT: PAD, I apologize...I see you make a fairly similar post in post #20.
If you play on Legend difficulty, what type of gameplay do you realistically expect? How would that differ from Rookie level?
Your point is counter-intuitive to logic, my friend. I mean...I can probably beat a 10-year old in a pickup game of basketball and look good going it; I probably would have a tough game and maybe lose/win frustratingly with a HS player, not even mentioning players in college/NBA.
Quite frankly, there's too much human pride in video games...I have a hard time admitting to myself that I'm no longer a HOF/AS hitter but a Veteran. I may do good for a game here/there but it's too frustrating. Is it the game's fault I cannot hit or is it mine? If a poll was taken on OS and we could derive stats from everybody, where in the bell curve would I fall?
There's difficulty levels for a reason...the selection chosen will determine HOW the AI will play against you and pick up your tendencies based on the difficulty level you've preset. If you find you're getting beat constantly on AS, bump it down or vice-versa if you're winning more often than not.
It's been mentioned, but I think the biggest common thread you're going to find among the people who believe this exists is that they play on HOF difficulty or higher. I honestly don't know if I've ever seen anyone claim this on All-Star or below.
I will once again suggest lowering the difficulty as the best means of controlling this phenomenon (because there's not much else I can say at this point - Nomo pretty much nailed it earlier). And, if All-Star is too easy there is All-Star+ through dynamic difficulty, which can now be locked in and prevented from changing once you've reached that level. Essentially, we have 10 different selectable difficulty levels to choose from in this year's game, it just takes a little time to access the + levels. But the payoff is worth it, as I've found AllStar+ pitching to be a very nice middle ground between AS being a bit too passive and HOF too unforgiving.
Adding to this suggestion, one area of the game that tends to be overlooked is how important pitch location is while pitching in this game.
I don't wish to sound like that I'm singling out P.A.D., but he's clearly been frustrated for a while playing on HoF but he also publish his play setting, so it is slightly easier to see how he actually plays the game.... and I do notice that he's playing on HoF but also lowers Pitch Control/Consistency sliders for human way down to 2 (out of 10). I do think that does contribute significantly to how he seems to often pitch poorly in late innings (both with starter with low energy and relievers with innately poor BB/9 ratings).
If I feel pitching on HoF or Leg is a requirement for my own gameplay, then I may actually increase those sliders hoping that I have a little more control over my own pitches. CPU gets ability boosts here and there already by the higher difficulty, so in order to counterbalance that trend, I should actually giving myself some boost in pitch command. That way, I'd have more control over my own fate, even if CPU is getting boosts due to higher difficulty. I'd be doing the opposite if I lower pitching related sliders.
The reason why I say this is that I used to use pitching interfaces like Meter and Pure Analog with which I tend to have more control over my own pitches. I had few issues pitching at HoF or Leg, but I did not enjoy the interface because I could cruise without giving up walks. It should also be noted that the best online gamers tend to prefer these interfaces, as they have better pitch command and therefore advantage.
I'm more a guy who wants to enjoy the game in a sim-style, which means I actually want my pitchers having hard time commanding pitches, so the last couple years I have almost exclusively used Pulse or Classic (and often even lower pitching related sliders).
What I notice, though, is that it is very difficult for me to pitch realistically, let alone successfully, using Classic on higher difficulty levels. I increased pitching difficulty in hope of making commanding pitches more difficult and yielding more walks, but what often ended up happening is that instead of throwing a lot more balls to result in walks, a lot of pitches go deeper in the strike zone, which CPU has no issues hitting solidly. So most of the time my pitchers end up having high WHIPs, with the increase mostly coming from a higher number of hits issued instead of allowing more walks.
I've read that Meter has been made a little more inaccurate this year (to be more in line with less accurate interfaces I suppose), so if you are using Meter and pitching on a higher difficulty levels, I can imagine the same sort of thing happening.
And also, let's not forget about the whole "pitcher confidence" debates that used to pop up often in the past. That system has been revealed to be just an adjustment on pitcher command, but even then that adjustment on pitch command made the game fairly magically dynamic, to make some people think it almost dictated the whole ebb and flow of the game itself.
All in all I think all these things simply amount to how important pitch location is in this game.Comment
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Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment
PAD could you go back to show your CPU % of runs scored against you in each inning?
I might do that as I mistakenly said that I played on AS earlier. I hit on AS, pitch on HOF.SOS Madden League (PS4) | League Archives
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Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment
...
I've tried user pitch control at 2, 3, 4 and 5. On the higher difficulties, it's of little consequence IMO. When the CPU gets aggressive, they will literally foul off many tough pitches until they get one they can hit. Again, this is just my opinion after playing this game for YEARS. I know the developers say there's no malicious code, but I like to formulate my own opinions based on my experiences, I don't just go with the party line because someone says it's so.
I have a question about your motivation to participate in this type of thread over the years though...
By venting your frustration, is your motivation just to garner sympathies and have chitchats on how some parts of the game may not be very well balanced, just to feel better?
Or do you actually want the developers of the game to improve upon the current state of the game by sharing all these gaming experiences?
If it is the former that you are here for, then I don't personally have anything to offer. While I think understand where your frustrations come from, I don't share your interpretations of the cause at all. If so I will respectfully back out from responding to your posts or mentioning you in future.
I am mostly only interested in doing part in the latter in this forum.
I care about relaying (more reliable) information that I have gathered from the forums also directly from the devs, and (when there are opportunities such as the community events) I'd want to collect meaningful feedback on the game so that our game experiences keep getting better.
Sharing your own opinions is okay, but if you wish to have meaningful interactions with other members, you also need to listen and digest what others say.
Something like artificial "rally generation" (which is simply just a form of rubber-banding) is not coded into the game. So the real cause(s) of your experiences on HoF lie elsewhere.
It is all those real causes that I'm only interested in discussing, personally.Comment
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Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment
BINGO! I play on Hall of Fame because I find AllStar frustratingly easy. How easy? I've never lost a game on Allstar difficulty. I'm not bragging, I'm just saying I find it easy. The pitch speed is slow even when maxed out (I played 3 games on Allstar yesterday with pitch speed at 10 and won all 3 without breaking a sweat). The problem is, on HOF, the "craziness" starts happening, including ole'd grounders, ridiculous guys hitting bombs, 11 foul balls (happened yesterday with Dioner Navarro who is a mediocre hitter at best) followed by a bases-clearing double, etc.
The problem is not with AllStar, good sir. The problem is with the higher difficulties, mainly HOF (as I refuse to play on anything higher).
Your last game is what I see on a constant basis on HoF difficulty. Does it happen on occasion in real life? Sure. But not NEARLY as often as it happens in this game on the higher difficulties. If you want to make the higher difficulties harder, make them HARDER, don't fabricate difficulty by allowing for late-inning nonsensical errors and the like.
Again sir, it's the HOW. It's how the computer generates rallies on higher difficulties that makes it wildly unrealistic. It's as if the developers had to find a way to make the game harder on higher difficulties, so they simply allowed for more nonsense to happen in order to make the computer opponent more challenging, and that was NOT the way to go about it. I understand that the higher difficulties need to be more challenging, but not by simply allowing for more errors and more ole'd grounders. Again, yes, it happens in real baseball, but not NEARLY the frequency it happens on higher difficulties in this game.
That's a great idea, but some of us don't have the time to be playing 15-20 games just to get to Allstar+ level. We want to jump into our seasons considering it's 162 games long. And I like playing every single game of the season. Further, my friend and I play on the same sliders, but with dynamic difficulty, that's impossible.
I've tried user pitch control at 2, 3, 4 and 5. On the higher difficulties, it's of little consequence IMO. When the CPU gets aggressive, they will literally foul off many tough pitches until they get one they can hit. Again, this is just my opinion after playing this game for YEARS. I know the developers say there's no malicious code, but I like to formulate my own opinions based on my experiences, I don't just go with the party line because someone says it's so.
I am all for helping out, I really am, but these types of responses make it extremely difficult. You come across as not wanting open discussion but rather everyone grab a pitchfork and join your crusade. If you're not willing to be open to suggestions then there is nothing else that anyone can do to assist you in this matter.
I play on HOF default and don't see the issues you're seeing in terms of rubber banding or CPU boosts.
If you're open to constructive dialogue about the issues let me know, but if you're going to keep responding the way you did above then I'll stop trying to assist. OS is about helping, but you can't help someone who refuses to try and help themselves.
I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.
I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(
Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis CardinalsComment
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Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment
I wonder why you don't try Pitch Control/Consistency above 5? Pitch Control (over a longer run) does have quite a bit of effect on offense though reducing the number of deep strikes.
I have a question about your motivation to participate in this type of thread over the years though...
By venting your frustration, is your motivation just to garner sympathies and have chitchats on how some parts of the game may not be very well balanced, just to feel better?
Or do you actually want the developers of the game to improve upon the current state of the game by sharing all these gaming experiences?
If it is the former that you are here for, then I don't personally have anything to offer. While I think understand where your frustrations come from, I don't share your interpretations of the cause at all. If so I will respectfully back out from responding to your posts or mentioning you in future.
I am mostly only interested in doing part in the latter in this forum.
I care about relaying (more reliable) information that I have gathered from the forums also directly from the devs, and (when there are opportunities such as the community events) I'd want to collect meaningful feedback on the game so that our game experiences keep getting better.
Sharing your own opinions is okay, but if you wish to have meaningful interactions with other members, you also need to listen and digest what others say.
Something like artificial "rally generation" (which is simply just a form of rubber-banding) is not coded into the game. So the real cause(s) of your experiences on HoF lie elsewhere.
It is all those real causes that I'm only interested in discussing, personally.
I base my opinions on what I experience, not what someone tells me I'm experiencing. The U.S. Government tells me that they had nothing to do with Kennedy's assassination. Do I believe them just because that's what they tell me? Of course not. Why? Because they have an agenda. Admitting to the public that they had something to do with it could cause anarchy and a complete distrust in the government going forward. Now, I'm not at all implying that the developers of this game are fabricating anything up, but it must be accepted that they too have an agenda, that being sales. NONE of us want some malicious code in the game that mysteriously boosts the CPU on higher difficulties when they're down. So admitting it's there would cause resentment amongst their client base and probably cost them sales in the future. I don't believe something just because someone tells me to believe something.
Now, with that said, I've tried to keep an open mind and you can see that in my thread a few pages back about this exact topic. Do I believe there is malicious code to "keep scores close?" NO, I absolutely do not. Do I think the team that is down (CPU or user is irrelevant) gets a boost when they're down? Yes. I think the developers do this intentionally to recreate motivation and aggression. In real life, when a team is down in the late innings, they tend to be more aggressive in order to generate a rally. I think the developers try to recreate this on higher difficulties, but I feel they do it in such a way that is unrealistic. For example, by allowing for umpire strike zones to alter throughout games with almost no consistency (using variable umpiring of course), this can be argued that it's recreating umpire variability. Furthermore, I've noticed in the later innings, the strike zone tends to be much harder to hit in that I can aim a pitch right down the middle and still miss the zone by a foot. This can be said to recreate nervousness or anxiety in tight situations. By allowing the CPU batter to foul off 6-10 pitches in an at-bat, this can be said to recreate the batter "buckling down" in a tight spot as they sometimes do during close games. By inopportune errors or ole'd grounders to happen late in close games, this can be said to create nervousness or fallibility for fielders in tight situations. EVERYTHING can be attributed to a real life happenstance. My issue is the frequency that which these things seem to happen and ONLY on higher difficulties because on Allstar I almost never see these types of things happen, or at least not nearly as frequent as they do on higher difficulties.
My argument is in how the developers code higher difficulties. Higher difficulties should mean CPU batters swing at less balls out of the strike zone or make more solid contact with meatballs or foul off an additional pitch or two. Higher difficulties should NOT mean more errors being generated or strike zones being harder to hit or umpires having more inconsistent strike zones. You want to make higher difficulties, make the CPU more efficient, not making the user less efficient.
I try to keep an open mind by allowing for the opinion that malicious code is NOT in the game. I ALSO try to keep an open mind for allowing the opinion that it may. Perhaps you should try to keep an open mind on both philosophies as well.Comment
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Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment
With all due respect, why on earth would I voice my frustrations simply as an avenue to vent? Isn't it common sense that I want the developers of the game to improve on the way rallies and offense are generated on the higher levels? Clearly I am not the only one seeing this issue as MANY others have suggested this as well, so perhaps instead of telling us that something is or isn't coded into the game simply because someone tells you it isn't, perhaps you should try digesting what it is we're trying to say.
I base my opinions on what I experience, not what someone tells me I'm experiencing. The U.S. Government tells me that they had nothing to do with Kennedy's assassination. Do I believe them just because that's what they tell me? Of course not. Why? Because they have an agenda. Admitting to the public that they had something to do with it could cause anarchy and a complete distrust in the government going forward. Now, I'm not at all implying that the developers of this game are fabricating anything up, but it must be accepted that they too have an agenda, that being sales. NONE of us want some malicious code in the game that mysteriously boosts the CPU on higher difficulties when they're down. So admitting it's there would cause resentment amongst their client base and probably cost them sales in the future. I don't believe something just because someone tells me to believe something.
Now, with that said, I've tried to keep an open mind and you can see that in my thread a few pages back about this exact topic. Do I believe there is malicious code to "keep scores close?" NO, I absolutely do not. Do I think the team that is down (CPU or user is irrelevant) gets a boost when they're down? Yes. I think the developers do this intentionally to recreate motivation and aggression. In real life, when a team is down in the late innings, they tend to be more aggressive in order to generate a rally. I think the developers try to recreate this on higher difficulties, but I feel they do it in such a way that is unrealistic. For example, by allowing for umpire strike zones to alter throughout games with almost no consistency (using variable umpiring of course), this can be argued that it's recreating umpire variability. Furthermore, I've noticed in the later innings, the strike zone tends to be much harder to hit in that I can aim a pitch right down the middle and still miss the zone by a foot. This can be said to recreate nervousness or anxiety in tight situations. By allowing the CPU batter to foul off 6-10 pitches in an at-bat, this can be said to recreate the batter "buckling down" in a tight spot as they sometimes do during close games. By inopportune errors or ole'd grounders to happen late in close games, this can be said to create nervousness or fallibility for fielders in tight situations. EVERYTHING can be attributed to a real life happenstance. My issue is the frequency that which these things seem to happen and ONLY on higher difficulties because on Allstar I almost never see these types of things happen, or at least not nearly as frequent as they do on higher difficulties.
My argument is in how the developers code higher difficulties. Higher difficulties should mean CPU batters swing at less balls out of the strike zone or make more solid contact with meatballs or foul off an additional pitch or two. Higher difficulties should NOT mean more errors being generated or strike zones being harder to hit or umpires having more inconsistent strike zones. You want to make higher difficulties, make the CPU more efficient, not making the user less efficient.
I try to keep an open mind by allowing for the opinion that malicious code is NOT in the game. I ALSO try to keep an open mind for allowing the opinion that it may. Perhaps you should try to keep an open mind on both philosophies as well.
I tried to help but the condescending tone to your posts leads me to believe that you're not looking for help but an argument against those who do not agree with your stance. And for people to join your crusade.
I hope you find a solution to your issues and can find enjoyment in the game.
Take care
I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.
I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(
Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis CardinalsComment
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Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment
And with this post, I'm sorry but I'm done.
I tried to help but the condescending tone to your posts leads me to believe that you're not looking for help but an argument against those who do not agree with your stance.
I hope you find a solution to your issues and can find enjoyment in the game.
Take care
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Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment
It was happening way too often on HoF for me so I switched back to All-Star and with adjusted sliders and it happens just like it would on HoF but a lot less frequent. On HoF, any time I took the lead I felt like the cpu was going to come back and win. The big issue is not that this occurs, but just like others on here have been preaching, it is how it occurs. I'm losing games because of things I cannot control, those things have been mentioned all over this thread.Comment
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Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment
Now, with that said, I've tried to keep an open mind and you can see that in my thread a few pages back about this exact topic. Do I believe there is malicious code to "keep scores close?" NO, I absolutely do not. Do I think the team that is down (CPU or user is irrelevant) gets a boost when they're down?
I believe that sometimes my bullpen screws up, or I push my starter one inning too much and take too long to take him out, or I start chipping at that confidence and maybe my boys get a little bit of an opening, etc.
The most I'll believe in is "game types" - i.e. an overall "flow" the game will tend to take. That's about as far as I'll go as I've seen games where no one could hit and it's 0-0 in the 12th with 10 hits COMBINED or sometimes it's like Coors Field on the moon type of offense. One game both teams struck out a ridiculous amount of times, things like that I could see to try to coax variety (but it impacts BOTH teams).
This I do see happen with the CPU hitters. They will get much more swing happy which of course you can exploit. But they don't need a ratings boost for this, just a paradigm shift."Some people call it butterflies, but to him, it probably feels like pterodactyls in his stomach." --Plesac in MLB18Comment
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