CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)

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  • countryboy
    Growing pains
    • Sep 2003
    • 52785

    #256
    Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)

    Originally posted by BobSacamano
    Yes, I can conceive of a scenario where pulling the starter makes sense. And I know that the game is seeing numbers and not that he got two quick outs before a walk and a weak contact ground ball to 3B. I would be fine with all of this if I could consider it an isolated instance.

    However, this game fit the exact pattern that I have laid out in my previous posts: starter is pulled in the 5th/6th inning at the first sign of trouble, and then the next reliever is left in for a long, long time despite the results screaming for him to be pulled. The fact that this pattern is happening repeatedly and predictably is what's bothering me and why I know there needs to be a fix. I'm hoping for a patch, but if there is a slider workaround, I'm all ears.

    By the way, I am pretty convinced that the logic being used in my games (which are played with QC, btw) is the same logic being used in Quick Manage games. I think there's something to that, but I don't know what.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Have you tried A&S's slider set? I believe he's played 30 games or so in franchise and isn't seeing this issue.
    I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

    I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


    Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

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    • BobSacamano
      Rookie
      • Feb 2010
      • 324

      #257
      Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)

      I have not, but I should. I'm always inclined to stick close to defaults to try to let things shake themselves out, but I think in the meantime I should at the very least mess with the CPU hook stuff.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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      • Hardworker33
        Rookie
        • Jun 2013
        • 128

        #258
        Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)

        Originally posted by CleveCluby
        No sir.. We don't all agree. if you want to find out for yourself. Just start a franchise. Don't use QC, then sim about a month and go check box scores. You will find a lot of 4 and 5 inn SP starts and then you will also see the long relief pitcher finishing the game. So you will see SP 5 inn and LR 4 inn. It's not in every case but there is way, way ,way to much of it and it is an issue that needs to be addressed.

        And even if it was just a QC problem, which I firmly believe it is not . It would still need to be patched or adjusted because many people play QC. With all the talk about it, I have no doubt that the devs are aware of it and will hopefully fix it.

        But with all the talk about it, I would think the devs would at least acknowledge it and let us know they are working on it or at least aware of it. I think that would go along way in calming the situation down..




        You don't have to convince me that it needs to be patched.. I'm the one that started the thread :wink:.

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        • CleveCluby
          Pro
          • Feb 2003
          • 808

          #259
          Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)

          Although I firmly believe that there is something wrong with the SP logic in played games. I did several test of simmed full seasons.

          I did some research and in 2016 MLB stats show that the top starter pitched 230 innings. That was David price and he had 35 starts... The 100th top SP Taijuan Walker had 134.1 inns pitched.

          After simming several seasons in franchise the Show stayed with in those stats. My last sim was a 30 controlled team. Here are the results. Top AL SP was Justin Vilander with 229.2 Inn pitched.. The top NL SP was Clayton Kershaw with 245.1 inn pitched.

          At number 50 in the AM league was J.A Happ at 161.1 inn pitched and number 50 in the NL was Robbie May at 158.2..

          So actual MLB stats 2016 Top SP 230 IP at 100 134.1 IP
          Show simmed stats.........Top SP 229 IP at 100 158.1 IP

          Several simms produced the same results within reason.

          Conclusion. The show has got it nearly perfect for simming as far realism and 2016 MLB SP season stats for IP. But in my mind the logic of when and why they pull SP in played games and let LR finish even when getting rocked. It just doesn't seem right to me. The SP may be pitching a great game but as most have said the first sign of trouble in the 4th or 5th. They pull him and and then the reliever the majority of the time, he gets slammed. I believe that he is not warmed up and comes in cold because he was never in the Bullpen. That is just my observation.

          In the last sim there was 130 total complete games. Clayton Kershaw lead the NL with 11 and Chris Sale lead the AL with 5.

          So what is the answer. Realistic stats or make SP last longer. Will full season played games have completely different stats. Is the game tuned to represent simmed stats. ?? Wish i knew the answer.
          When I do something right, No one ever remembers.
          When I do something wrong, No one ever forgets.!

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          • EWRMETS
            All Star
            • Jul 2002
            • 7491

            #260
            Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)

            You really need to give it a break. Look at actual MLB box scores, there's plenty of examples of pitchers giving up 1 run, being under 85 pitches, and being taken out. Relievers pitching multiple innings too often may be a problem but you consistently overstate the SP issue.

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            • BobSacamano
              Rookie
              • Feb 2010
              • 324

              #261
              CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)

              Outside of the very beginning of the season, and maybe situations where the SP is pinch-hit for in the NL, that is simply untrue. Go pick any random week in the season last year, May to September, and you will find you are wrong. I'm sure there are examples where a guy suddenly runs into a bunch of trouble (two straight hits and a walk, for example), but it should be rare that a SP is removed from the game when their pitch count is under 90 and they are not in trouble. At the very least, this sort of bullpen management should be rare, and not the norm. It's happening like clockwork.

              I'm not going to "give it a break" because it is pretty apparent to me that this is an actual issue and one that will plague franchise players going forward unless addressed.


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
              Last edited by BobSacamano; 04-06-2017, 11:12 AM.

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              • CleveCluby
                Pro
                • Feb 2003
                • 808

                #262
                Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)

                Originally posted by EWRMETS
                You really need to give it a break. Look at actual MLB box scores, there's plenty of examples of pitchers giving up 1 run, being under 85 pitches, and being taken out. Relievers pitching multiple innings too often may be a problem but you consistently overstate the SP issue.
                You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine. There are far more people that agree that there is a problem than those that don't. And there are plenty of MLB box scores that show the SP staying in in crucial situations. If you don't see a problem with it, Then just enjoy, but don't tell others that think there is a problem to give it a break. You can post anything you like about the game to about how you feel, but don't tell me what to think or what to post. I think there is an issue with SP in played games. Plain and simple. If you don't, so be it. If you are correct, then they won't address it, patch it or adjust it. If they do patch it, I guess there was an issue after all. We will wait and see. And if you actually read my post. I actually gave them credit. I stated that as far as sim stats go they pretty much nailed it. No disrespect intended.
                When I do something right, No one ever remembers.
                When I do something wrong, No one ever forgets.!

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                • loganmorrison1
                  Rookie
                  • Aug 2010
                  • 246

                  #263
                  Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)

                  I've played enough QC and regular games to see a trend in which QC is definitely broken and regular isn't. Regular mode has a quicker hook than previous years but not too concerning. Perfect example last night was playing Marlins Nats. Marlins up 2-1 bottom of 7th Schezer had 80 pitches and came up to bat 2nd in the inning and CPU pinch hit for him. A little premature than I would like, but nothing crazy. QC game Marlins Nats, Nats up 1-0, Marlins batting in top of 6th, Schezer gives up lead off hit, he's pulled. That's broken


                  Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

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                  • oldtimey
                    Rookie
                    • Apr 2005
                    • 97

                    #264
                    Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)

                    I have used this pitcher-related slider setting cocktail since. MLB The Show 13. I never have a problem with any reliever being left on the mound to be rocked unless the CPU manager runs out of pitchers and the guy on the mound is the last one. Set sliders as follows :

                    Manager hook - 5
                    Starter stamina - 4
                    Reliever stamina - 0

                    Long relievers will be left in only to cover the starter's innings, through the 6th, if he is effective. If ineffective, this will place multiple innings on the middle guys.

                    Middle guys usually go 1 ip and are usually yanked if there is trouble. Setup guys, the same.

                    Closers brought in mostly for save situations and will be left in until save is complete or blown. Give these a try. You will find that most of your middle relievers, setup men and closers will average less than 1 ip/app as your stats accumulate. But this will only work if you have a long man in the LRP slot with a stamina rating of 60 or more. He is the key in keeping your short guys ip short. Unless they changed The Show 17's pitching logic drastically... well these really worked well after the patch in The Show 16.

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                    • squashbuggie
                      Banned
                      • Dec 2016
                      • 371

                      #265
                      Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)

                      Originally posted by oldtimey
                      I have used this pitcher-related slider setting cocktail since. MLB The Show 13. I never have a problem with any reliever being left on the mound to be rocked unless the CPU manager runs out of pitchers and the guy on the mound is the last one. Set sliders as follows :

                      Manager hook - 5
                      Starter stamina - 4
                      Reliever stamina - 0

                      Long relievers will be left in only to cover the starter's innings, through the 6th, if he is effective. If ineffective, this will place multiple innings on the middle guys.

                      Middle guys usually go 1 ip and are usually yanked if there is trouble. Setup guys, the same.

                      Closers brought in mostly for save situations and will be left in until save is complete or blown. Give these a try. You will find that most of your middle relievers, setup men and closers will average less than 1 ip/app as your stats accumulate. But this will only work if you have a long man in the LRP slot with a stamina rating of 60 or more. He is the key in keeping your short guys ip short. Unless they changed The Show 17's pitching logic drastically... well these really worked well after the patch in The Show 16.
                      very good. with edits like chopping the MRP stamina in half and doing as you say with the LRP, sim stats are incredible in MLB 17. these pics are from the final OSFM carryover save and I have edited Balt./Bos so far with those tweaks and look at how accurate this is:

                      Manager hook - 6
                      Starter stamina - 8
                      Reliever stamina - 0
                      Attached Files

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                      • squashbuggie
                        Banned
                        • Dec 2016
                        • 371

                        #266
                        Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)

                        3-additional pics:

                        you also need to have nobody labeled as CP and change to RP. leave Closer stamina at default (25-30) and have nobody in closer role first 25-calendar days of season. then, put the closer in there and you will see more realistic SV/BSV #'s. also, swap out the LRP every two months to keep the LRP guy under 80-IP during the season. any questions, just ask or pm me

                        : )
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by squashbuggie; 04-06-2017, 05:27 PM.

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                        • MJDrocks
                          Pro
                          • Nov 2014
                          • 918

                          #267
                          Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)

                          Has this issue been fixed? And if not, is there a patch in the works to fix it?

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                          • countryboy
                            Growing pains
                            • Sep 2003
                            • 52785

                            #268
                            Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)

                            Originally posted by MJDrocks
                            Has this issue been fixed? And if not, is there a patch in the works to fix it?
                            Has not been "fixed".

                            There is no word on what is being worked on for a patch. There hasn't even been a notification that they are working on a patch.
                            I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

                            I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


                            Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

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                            • CleveCluby
                              Pro
                              • Feb 2003
                              • 808

                              #269
                              Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)

                              Played a game today. LIVE Cleve against Arizona. ( even though that game hasn't been played yet ). Miller pitching for Ari.. Tomlin for Cleve. Miller pitches 6 inn in a scoreless game. He has given up 2 hits, no walks, 8 ks. For some reason, They pull him at the top of the 7th. Now here's the thing, They let him bat in the 6th. And the weird thing is, he is batting 7th in the line up.. Not 9th, but 7th.

                              Score is 0 to 0. In the bottom of the 6th. Tomlin gives up a single, next batter hits bunt sac. runner on second, 1 out and they let Miller bat. We get out of the inning. Top of 7th, they pull him. Relief comes in and gives up HR, 2 back to back singles and another HR to Santana. Score 4 to 0. There reliever stays in rest of the game.

                              Now if anyone doesn't think there is something seriously wrong with this logic. Then I really don't know what to tell you are you aren't very serious about BB. There is no explanation you can give me to make since of this.
                              When I do something right, No one ever remembers.
                              When I do something wrong, No one ever forgets.!

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                              • DarthRambo
                                MVP
                                • Mar 2008
                                • 6630

                                #270
                                Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)

                                Yeah I have manager hook at zero and see this same nonsense. I am watching the Giants game irl now and Matt Cain is at 80 pitches and losing 4-1 AND gave up a baserunner before the Giants had a RP warming up.

                                In this game Cain would've been yanked immediately after going down by 3 runs. Last game I played the cpu yanked the pitcher after 3ip down 3-0. They pinched hit for him in the home 4th inning. So dumb!

                                This honestly has been a plague this game has always had but NEVER this bad. I was thinking the other day playing how I will literally never see a cpu SP throw 100 pitches in this game. For me, this and the playoff pitching stamina are game killers as of now.

                                I can deal with the playoff deal, but to play a season with the manager hook slider broken can not be done. Has to be addressed in a patch or this game will become virtually unplayable imo



                                Sent from my SM-G920P using Operation Sports mobile app
                                https://www.youtube.com/DarthRambo

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