The Comeback AI thread

[pbz06]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

That was my tip, and I'm glad it's working for you (so far). I really think others. especially those "seeing" the comeback code issues should try it, it's helped me a lot.

Yea, sorry about that. I got confused since several people were contributing in that thread. Big props to you.

I played 5 games so far, and so far so good. I haven't had any of those god innings where everything gets sucked down the middle.

[fistofrage]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

Down by 1, 8th inning, Magglio Ordonez hits a Bad News Bears Homerun for me. Slow roller to 3rd, Rolen goes to bear hand it and runs right past it. Ball Stops but noone is going to get it so I head for 2nd, the SS goes to pick it up and he does the same animation as Rolen, recovers and throws the ball to the 2nd baseman, except that he gunned it about 5 feet over his head. The ball rolls all the way to the wall and I score easily.

It was cheese factory. It that had happened to me, I would agree with the comeback AI. But it happend to the AI on Legend.

[ehh]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

This was the first bad thing I've seen since using my current slider set.

In my Yankee franchise I'm playing Boston at home in early May. I'm up 2-1 in the 9th when Boston hits back-to-back homers off Burnett who was getting tired so I'm fine with that. I should have taken him out after the first homer but it was late and I had forgotten to warm up Mo.

Bottom nine and I lead off with a double by Tex. Damon had the day off so I used him as a pinch runner. Posada steps in and Papelbon immediately throws a pick off to second and catches Damon napping. Just seemed so cheesy.

[yungmizzou]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

yes, whatever is going on is making this game unplayable for me, I have lost 6 games in a row because of this, my latest I was up 6-0 pitching a gem and then 5th inning comes around and all hell breaks loose as the white sox nail 2 back to back homers on me and then a couple of crap line drives that came off pitches that i threw way outside the strike zone.

I hate to say but this has ruined the game for me and I dont even know if i can keep playing unless something is solved. The most fun game I have every played turns into the stupidest game I have every played whenever I get a lead. Just plain ridiculous.

[magnumpc]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

yes, whatever is going on is making this game unplayable for me, I have lost 6 games in a row because of this, my latest I was up 6-0 pitching a gem and then 5th inning comes around and all hell breaks loose as the white sox nail 2 back to back homers on me and then a couple of crap line drives that came off pitches that i threw way outside the strike zone.

I hate to say but this has ruined the game for me and I dont even know if i can keep playing unless something is solved. The most fun game I have every played turns into the stupidest game I have every played whenever I get a lead. Just plain ridiculous.

Amen brother. I was so looking forward to this game, but these problems already have made me quit this game.

[jim416]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

yes, whatever is going on is making this game unplayable for me, I have lost 6 games in a row because of this, my latest I was up 6-0 pitching a gem and then 5th inning comes around and all hell breaks loose as the white sox nail 2 back to back homers on me and then a couple of crap line drives that came off pitches that i threw way outside the strike zone.

I hate to say but this has ruined the game for me and I dont even know if i can keep playing unless something is solved. The most fun game I have every played turns into the stupidest game I have every played whenever I get a lead. Just plain ridiculous.

PM coming your way.

[ckarlic]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

You know, Ive stayed away and avoided this thread like the swine flu..but I wonder what the talk would be if SCEA didn't even include the Comeback option. For me, personally, all the leads I have given up have been because of my stupidity. Making dumb plays, taking too many chances, keeping my pitcher in for too long, rushing my pitching, so on and so forth.

Like a poster has already mentioned, SCEA has said that this is not the case so im fine with the way the game plays. End of story for me.

This game kicks a$$!!!!!!!

Thanks SCEA and looking foward to what next year's iteration has to offer.

[TheLoafer]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

I don't believe there is comeback AI, all my recent victories and defeats fall into the believable.

However, I do believe this: The game of baseball is one of those games that is very unique, where on every given pitch, hundreds of possibilites can occur; with each possibilities bringing its own set of challenges to the programming team. This complexity has to be a nightmare to program, especially for fans such as we.

Consider this: In the history of MLB baseball, there have been real crappy teams, teams that you wonder if they could have beaten one of the better triple A team. Still, these awful teams still typically manage to win 1/3 of their games (kind of ironic that hitting the ball successfully 1/3 of the time makes you a millionnaire ). Anyway, out of 1/3 of those game, a few of the 50ish victories came at the expense of crap teams and yes, great teams too.

So how is that possible? If talent is the only factor in determining the outcome of a game, how can a good pitcher be defeated by a bad hitting team? Although this is true of all sports, baseball is unique in that it's a team game that's mostly built on the individual successes of each player that always starts off with one thing: There is ONE batter facing ONE pitcher and the game takes off from there. I don't think there are other sports that has this purity.

Without going into the law of probabilities, possibilities and percentages, I've always believed that unknown factor... the "X" factor is a big charm of baseball and of other professional sports.

So where the hell am I going with this and how is this relevant? Well, it's my humble belief that in programming sports video games, the developpers try and mimic this unpredictability. What I think we are seeing is their efforts in action. How can we explain one individual playing 20 games and having won 18 of them and not having seen any comeback, while another sees it almost every game?

Frustrations aside which might make a player become obsessed (and thus "disabled" in playing the game with proper "focus"), I think during the course of a season your players talent will account for 50 percent of the outcome, your own ability will account for about 40% and the remaining 10% is probably a random dice role.

"If that's true, that sucks!". Well, I don't think so. Let's be clear, there is no real "AI" in sports video games. In fact, as most of you know, what is called AI is really complex scripts based on statistical data, some computerized physics and the interaction of a human player.

So if that's the case, the balancing act between stats, player ability and the complexity of the "AI" must above all end up as "fun". This is why the scripting is so important, the more complex the script, the more believable it can appear but I believe the more random the devs try and make it, the more opportunity there are for them to cater too much to the variety and maybe a little focus might have been lost... well that 10% of the time anyway. I think MLB09 The show is one of the most complex simulation yet seen but maybe that's part of the problem here.

If MLB 09 is guilty of one thing, it is the following: At times, it does a poor job of keeping the curtain closed, the wizard being obvious to us. When the curtain is open and we see the wizard at work, it's a real PO, but IMHO, when the curtain stays closed, it's the best at what it does. If I'm correct, then if one kept playing their seasons, those oddities would balance themselves out with the regular talent % of the equation comes in (as long as the human player isn't playing badly per guidelines). IE: Rivera is a great closer, if you've had trouble with him in April, his 50% part of the equation will mean he'll be ok on the long run, he will get his share of saves.

yayayaya well, that's what I think anyway. So far, I'm loving what I've seen, little quirks and all. However, I'm not trying to see the director behind the movie. If I was, I'd surely find more and more evidence of his existence. I think THAT, is the larger problem here. The moment people believe there's catchup logic, then they are LOOKING for cases of catch up logic and maybe in the end end up helping it to happen, with the human 40% element maybe becoming 25% and the rest going to the X factor.

Ok, I'm shutting up now

[jim416]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

I don't believe there is comeback AI, all my recent victories and defeats fall into the believable.

However, I do believe this: The game of baseball is one of those games that is very unique, where on every given pitch, hundreds of possibilites can occur; with each possibilities bringing its own set of challenges to the programming team. This complexity has to be a nightmare to program, especially for fans such as we.

Consider this: In the history of MLB baseball, there have been real crappy teams, teams that you wonder if they could have beaten one of the better triple A team. Still, these awful teams still typically manage to win 1/3 of their games (kind of ironic that hitting the ball successfully 1/3 of the time makes you a millionnaire ). Anyway, out of 1/3 of those game, a few of the 50ish victories came at the expense of crap teams and yes, great teams too.

So how is that possible? If talent is the only factor in determining the outcome of a game, how can a good pitcher be defeated by a bad hitting team? Although this is true of all sports, baseball is unique in that it's a team game that's mostly built on the individual successes of each player that always starts off with one thing: There is ONE batter facing ONE pitcher and the game takes off from there. I don't think there are other sports that has this purity.

Without going into the law of probabilities, possibilities and percentages, I've always believed that unknown factor... the "X" factor is a big charm of baseball and of other professional sports.

So where the hell am I going with this and how is this relevant? Well, it's my humble belief that in programming sports video games, the developpers try and mimic this unpredictability. What I think we are seeing is their efforts in action. How can we explain one individual playing 20 games and having won 18 of them and not having seen any comeback, while another sees it almost every game?

Frustrations aside which might make a player become obsessed (and thus "disabled" in playing the game with proper "focus"), I think during the course of a season your players talent will account for 50 percent of the outcome, your own ability will account for about 40% and the remaining 10% is probably a random dice role.

"If that's true, that sucks!". Well, I don't think so. Let's be clear, there is no real "AI" in sports video games. In fact, as most of you know, what is called AI is really complex scripts based on statistical data, some computerized physics and the interaction of a human player.

So if that's the case, the balancing act between stats, player ability and the complexity of the "AI" must above all end up as "fun". This is why the scripting is so important, the more complex the script, the more believable it can appear but I believe the more random the devs try and make it, the more opportunity there are for them to cater too much to the variety and maybe a little focus might have been lost... well that 10% of the time anyway. I think MLB09 The show is one of the most complex simulation yet seen but maybe that's part of the problem here.

If MLB 09 is guilty of one thing, it is the following: At times, it does a poor job of keeping the curtain closed, the wizard being obvious to us. When the curtain is open and we see the wizard at work, it's a real PO, but IMHO, when the curtain stays closed, it's the best at what it does. If I'm correct, then if one kept playing their seasons, those oddities would balance themselves out with the regular talent % of the equation comes in (as long as the human player isn't playing badly per guidelines). IE: Rivera is a great closer, if you've had trouble with him in April, his 50% part of the equation will mean he'll be ok on the long run, he will get his share of saves.

yayayaya well, that's what I think anyway. So far, I'm loving what I've seen, little quirks and all. However, I'm not trying to see the director behind the movie. If I was, I'd surely find more and more evidence of his existence. I think THAT, is the larger problem here. The moment people believe there's catchup logic, then they are LOOKING for cases of catch up logic and maybe in the end end up helping it to happen, with the human 40% element maybe becoming 25% and the rest going to the X factor.

Ok, I'm shutting up now

Pretty brilliant, actually. Placebo is one thing you talk about, and we know it exists, just look at how much "better the game is playing" AFTER THE PATCH, and "how you can't hit homeruns now", AFTER THE PATCH, and "how homeruns are too easy now", AFTER THE PATCH.

There are many answers to this dilema. I've helped a ton of people via PM. The sliders work, Davewins suggestion has worked, individual gamer abilities must be taken into account, etc. tons of variables this year (unlike 08). I continue to not see the dilema, but admittedly I was patient with the game, didn't let it get to me and found my comfort zone.
This is a great baseball game. It's moved up from being just a video sports game in my opinion.

Anyone needs help, PM me.

[davewins]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

Swaldo, i feel sorry for you my friend, you are forcing yourself to believe in this "issue" which means anytime you see anything out of the ordinary (the above was just a programming/visual glitch really) you put it down to "comeback".

I had won 6 games in a row until last night, some of the scores were 11-1, 6-1, and 7-0. At not one point did the CPU even look like coming back, not because it didnt "cllick into comeback mode" but because i actually kept pitching well.

Im not going to go into it any deeper than this (and ive held back from posting this so far as ive been intrigued by some of the replies in this thread from the believers) suffice to say ive actually been shown proof (think of my position as a Community Leader) that this "code" simply doesnt exist, and im talking absolute proof, not just some opinions.

This is not a dig at you, you have always put your points across very intelligently and fairly, but i felt compelled to post because it seems very sad that you appear to be giving up on a game due to this "comeback code" which simply doesnt exist.

Try and enjoy the game for what it is, if you cant, well i hope you The Show 10 is more to your liking mate.

All the best

LOL. Seriously thanks for the laugh!

[davewins]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

You guys want a thread, here is your answer.

Two rules -

1 - Only people who believe there is comeback. No arguing against it.

2 - I have told the developers to not even open this thread. That way, those of you that want to talk about it can talk amongst yourselves.

3 - NOBODY, and I mean this wholeheartedly, accuses the developers of lying to you about the alleged comeback AI. It has been answered by them more than one time.

The previous threads were closed because of the arguing, the bickering, and the beating of too many dead horses. Everyone went round and round on the same points, and the circle restarted every time.

Continue to discuss if you wish.

BUMP

[davewins]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

When we all agree to disagree the arguments and bickering will stop.

Why can't we just agree to disagree and respect EVERYBODYS opinion?? I think the rules that Millennium set out are pretty straight forward.

[brunnoce]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

BUMP

wow,did just u read my mind? i was about to quote the rules
maybe page 1 got to far away.

[davewins]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

We can do a couple things here.

We can argue back and forth if there is or isn't comeback (whether it be option broken/reversed or just comeback code). We can do this all summer long until we are blue in the face. Yay! That sounds like fun!!

We can try to come up with "fixes". For me I am enjoying the game much more with comeback option ON. I have won games 9-1, 12-4, 9-2, etc. With it OFF I haven't won by more then 4 once. Call it coincidence, call it luck, call it me trying harder with it ON so my theory holds true. Call it whatever you want to call it. But I call it the solution. For me that is.

Bottom line what I am trying to say here is let's forget about the debate if there is an issue with the CPU coming back. Plenty of people see it and plenty don't. We will be here all summer arguing back and forth. The only thing there is to do is try playign with the option ON vs OFF, don't play the game at all, or play the game and try to make the best of it until next year. This arguing/bickering back and forth is very stale now.

Look at the options and pick one. I think the biggest waste of time for everybody is arguing/bickering back and forth. Hopefully others agree with me.

[chuckm1961]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

[quote=davewins;2039571990]Why can't we just agree to disagree and respect EVERYBODYS opinion?? [quote]

Well, because this is not a matter of opinion. It's a FACT that there is no Comeback AI Code. Either that, or the developers are liars or incompetents. I don't think they are.

Jim is kindly trying to help those who are struggling. I'm sure it's tips on keeping your pitchers fresh, pitching to corners, varying pitch speed, finding the right sliders, etc.

And now I will leave again, and be sure to never look at this thread. It just depresses me.