Franchise trading.

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  • Othgar
    Rookie
    • Mar 2012
    • 16

    #16
    Re: Franchise trading.

    I disagree with "they can't do anything about this. The CPU only looks at numbers" They could put tags on players similar to Madden: Franchise Player, Elite Prospect, etc. Then make the CPU not trade those type of players. I know that in real life players like that do get traded but I would rather have them not traded then the mess that is going on now. Or they could make options like mentioned above like being able to turn on: CPU wont trade A prospects or players rated above 85. Something to that effect..

    Comment

    • Based Doc
      Rookie
      • Aug 2011
      • 51

      #17
      Re: Franchise trading.

      Originally posted by lumberjake
      Most of the trades are justifiable, but only because they made wonky moves to begin with.

      Another example is the Reds traded Chapman to Baltimore for Weiters, and 2 weeks later Baltimore traded Chapman to Seattle for Montero. It just seems to go out of its way to make way to many trades(2-3 a week at least).

      I get what your saying though as far as eliminating franchise guys and just seeing their ratings and wanting to pursuing them and not knowing Chipper is Chipper and that Mike Trout is a highly touted prospect who wouldn't just be traded on the spot like that in real life, but as a guy with high potential and intangibles.
      Trust me, if they could program all that stuff in, they definitely would. I do research on AI among other things (undergraduate hopefully going to grad school) so I understand this a bit more than the average person. If someone managed to make trade logic that worked like real life, they'd have developed one of the best AI systems in history. The problem is we don't even understand how actual humans make these decisions! Sure we have some theories but how that stuff actually processes through your brain is still a mystery (another area I'm doing research in).

      Also, I like to ignore franchise players and such when I'm GMing. My team is the Phillies and while Jimmy Rollins is the face of the franchise and he helped bring us out of a dark age, his stats in the show just aren't all that good. His contact is pretty mediocre and so is his power. I tend to trade him away for a high contact, high speed SS. This would almost never happen in real life but this is MY franchise, not Ruben Amaro Jr's. There are some players I never trade away (usually my favorites) like Doc and Chooch (Pence is being added to that list as well but he'd be a terrible person to trade away anyway) but the rest could be moved if need be. I might move Chase Utley and Shane Victorino as well since their Show attributes just aren't that great. Sometimes I can't find a better replacement (note I don't mean overall, just a better *fit* for my play style, tending to get more contact) so they stick around.

      Comment

      • Redacted01
        Hall Of Fame
        • Aug 2007
        • 10316

        #18
        Re: Franchise trading.

        Originally posted by Based Doc
        Trust me, if they could program all that stuff in, they definitely would. I do research on AI among other things (undergraduate hopefully going to grad school) so I understand this a bit more than the average person. If someone managed to make trade logic that worked like real life, they'd have developed one of the best AI systems in history. The problem is we don't even understand how actual humans make these decisions! Sure we have some theories but how that stuff actually processes through your brain is still a mystery (another area I'm doing research in).

        Also, I like to ignore franchise players and such when I'm GMing. My team is the Phillies and while Jimmy Rollins is the face of the franchise and he helped bring us out of a dark age, his stats in the show just aren't all that good. His contact is pretty mediocre and so is his power. I tend to trade him away for a high contact, high speed SS. This would almost never happen in real life but this is MY franchise, not Ruben Amaro Jr's. There are some players I never trade away (usually my favorites) like Doc and Chooch (Pence is being added to that list as well but he'd be a terrible person to trade away anyway) but the rest could be moved if need be. I might move Chase Utley and Shane Victorino as well since their Show attributes just aren't that great. Sometimes I can't find a better replacement (note I don't mean overall, just a better *fit* for my play style, tending to get more contact) so they stick around.
        This! I've worked on ranking systems and people are too emotionally attached, shall we say, to names and the way they think things should work given what they know. Computers don't do that and you'd have to pour in way too much information to make it work the way you want.

        The excessive number of trades are a problem, but Chipper is getting traded because he is old and worn down. Just read an article today that he even thinks he is close to being done. But then everyone playing the game wants to throw a fit because it is Chipper and he'd never be traded. But to the game, he is a very aged 3rd baseman that needs replacing.

        Comment

        • Based Doc
          Rookie
          • Aug 2011
          • 51

          #19
          Re: Franchise trading.

          Originally posted by Othgar
          I disagree with "they can't do anything about this. The CPU only looks at numbers" They could put tags on players similar to Madden: Franchise Player, Elite Prospect, etc. Then make the CPU not trade those type of players. I know that in real life players like that do get traded but I would rather have them not traded then the mess that is going on now. Or they could make options like mentioned above like being able to turn on: CPU wont trade A prospects or players rated above 85. Something to that effect..
          This does seem like a good fix. Problem is the forum will likely be filled with "Why isn't the CPU making any big trades?" instead of threads like this one. No system is perfect. The options seems like the best compromise although I'm not sure how tough that would be to program into the game. And SCEA is great about giving us options so that would be a good improvement.

          Questions: can you edit those tags in Madden? It seems like a good system but only if we can edit these tags in rosters. Also, how does it handle these tags later on in franchise? Do Elite prospects that develop well become franchise players?

          Comment

          • Based Doc
            Rookie
            • Aug 2011
            • 51

            #20
            Re: Franchise trading.

            Originally posted by dochalladay32
            This! I've worked on ranking systems and people are too emotionally attached, shall we say, to names and the way they think things should work given what they know. Computers don't do that and you'd have to pour in way too much information to make it work the way you want.

            The excessive number of trades are a problem, but Chipper is getting traded because he is old and worn down. Just read an article today that he even thinks he is close to being done. But then everyone playing the game wants to throw a fit because it is Chipper and he'd never be traded. But to the game, he is a very aged 3rd baseman that needs replacing.

            Yea one of the issues is that they could possibly code this but due to how complex the programming would get, there would likely be lots of errors and oddities. I'm sure SCEA has tried systems to incorporate these aspects into the game but they likely just didn't work very well. It also might just slow down the game far too much because crunching all those extra numbers and making all those extra decisions takes processing time. Simming franchise would likely get much slower.

            Comment

            • batTastic
              Rookie
              • Mar 2012
              • 5

              #21
              Re: Franchise trading.

              Originally posted by Othgar
              I disagree with "they can't do anything about this. The CPU only looks at numbers" They could put tags on players similar to Madden: Franchise Player, Elite Prospect, etc. Then make the CPU not trade those type of players. I know that in real life players like that do get traded but I would rather have them not traded then the mess that is going on now. Or they could make options like mentioned above like being able to turn on: CPU wont trade A prospects or players rated above 85. Something to that effect..
              The tags don't seem to work properly on Madden or how they are supose to and the programmers are still probably working on the bugs. I've seen teams draft a QB in the first round and already have a Franchise QB, etc.

              There are definitely many variables to consider (memory for one), but a couple options could or should be implemented by next year for The Show. I would not doubt it if the game developers have items or game working logic that is done behind the scenes, over several years and probably working out the bugs before implementing, it might not be trading options or logic though. Also considering how much time is spent (or stated as such) working on the trading logic possibly wouldn't need to be done. There's probably no way the current logic makes sense or works with certain rosters that can and are changed from each persons game. OSFM vs the Default rosters, since teams have different player potentials and such (probably not to seem too close to real life and SCEA getting in trouble for non-major league players included in the minors); if someone changes player ratings and so on.

              Just some ideas of individuals controlling the odd trades is a definite answer and not having to be working with 30-team control. If you like or have ideas regarding the details on how to improve, please request this for next years game.

              1 - Highlight player trade control (a nice to have) - Althought Memory is a consideration, if you were able to select 10-20 players in a league, ~3-5 guys on a team, etc. it would be nice to have control that these 'highlighted' players would not or could not be considered for trades. Update at anytime in a season. Also, an option of players to highlight that should be on the trading block; instead of the AI picking these guys or all of them, you should have a say on teams you don't want to control.

              2 - Commissioner mode / option (must have!!) - have an option to turn on/off, but would essencially give a notice to you what trade may be taking place or offered for all 30 teams. You would Accept, Deny or possibly propose or change players within that trade to make it seem more accurate or acceptable to how you see trades should happen in a season / franchise. The window pops up asking if you accept trades and other information, it shouldn't be too difficult to create logic that will ask you and esspecially if you only want to control 1 team, not 30.

              Maybe have an option to decide when a team is rebuilding or not; so the rebuilding phase doesn't start the 1st week or too early before still being in possible contention.

              Comment

              • lumberjake
                Rookie
                • Mar 2012
                • 57

                #22
                Re: Franchise trading.

                Originally posted by dochalladay32
                The excessive number of trades are a problem, but Chipper is getting traded because he is old and worn down. Just read an article today that he even thinks he is close to being done. But then everyone playing the game wants to throw a fit because it is Chipper and he'd never be traded. But to the game, he is a very aged 3rd baseman that needs replacing.
                It's not that I care about Chipper being traded, but nobody on this planet is taking Chipper for Mike Trout, a 19 year old predicted star. We all see certain people synonymous with certain teams,obviously an AI system isn't going to get that, but I just wish they'd keep their highest rated players on the same teams and not switch them for no reason.

                As I progressed 2 more weeks in franchise, Pujols was traded to Philly for Ryan Howard, why? Its 65 games into the season. Jose Bautista was just traded to LA for Andre Ethier as well and Josh Beckett to Arizona for Daniel Hudson only to be traded back to Boston for Jon Lester. Really? Trades are fine and all, but its extremely irritating for top rated players to be dealt for basically no reason, and this is the 3rd player I've seen get traded twice in the span of a franchise week.

                Comment

                • ARoid1313
                  Pro
                  • Mar 2009
                  • 859

                  #23
                  Originally posted by lumberjake
                  It's not that I care about Chipper being traded, but nobody on this planet is taking Chipper for Mike Trout, a 19 year old predicted star. We all see certain people synonymous with certain teams,obviously an AI system isn't going to get that, but I just wish they'd keep their highest rated players on the same teams and not switch them for no reason.

                  As I progressed 2 more weeks in franchise, Pujols was traded to Philly for Ryan Howard, why? Its 65 games into the season. Jose Bautista was just traded to LA for Andre Ethier as well and Josh Beckett to Arizona for Daniel Hudson only to be traded back to Boston for Jon Lester. Really? Trades are fine and all, but its extremely irritating for top rated players to be dealt for basically no reason, and this is the 3rd player I've seen get traded twice in the span of a franchise week.
                  Wow that's brutal , especially when Improved logic was a feature.. Seems worse than last year

                  Comment

                  • HighCmpPct
                    Denny 3K
                    • Oct 2011
                    • 3596

                    #24
                    Re: Franchise trading.

                    First off Chipper isn't getting traded for anybody, he's the hero here in the ATL and that will never change.

                    But back to the topic two weirdest ones i've seen so far David Wright for Brent Morel and a pitching prospect I didn't check him out.

                    And the other is the Nats traded Harper to the Yanks, but it wasn't such a bad deal really. Harper for Granderson, SP with A pot, and a B pot OF. I was upset at first when I saw he was traded but when I actually looked at it I can live with it. They're making a push and Grandy's up over 30 jacks again so not so bad.

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                    • hitstreak13
                      MVP
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 1117

                      #25
                      Re: Franchise trading.

                      You know, I understand the game doesn't understand who Pujols is and I certainly don't know how programming works so I will leave that to the experts, but even if you account age, attributes, and potential the deals still don't make alot of sense.

                      All I want is a trade slider (never has been in a game before I believe) and restrictions. I forgot which baseball game had this, but you had the option to ensure that the CPU would not trade A prospects, anyone who is an 80 overall or higher, etc. (there were 3 total I think).

                      Teams who were making a playoff push would actually trade a C catcher and 2 B prospects to get that C+ pitcher. Of course, that is not ideal as that may have fetched a higher rated pitcher, but I'd rather have the deals go through like this example than seeing Hosmer (A pot. 1B) go to the Pads for Mayben and Stauffer.
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                      • dbacks_Nation
                        Pro
                        • Jan 2012
                        • 705

                        #26
                        Re: Franchise trading.

                        Too bad there isn't a "No Trade Clause" as part of real life contracts in the game. There are player/club/mutual options, any reason why a No Trade Clause can't be implemented?
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                        • HighCmpPct
                          Denny 3K
                          • Oct 2011
                          • 3596

                          #27
                          Re: Franchise trading.

                          I'd kinda like for every team to have like 2 players designated in each league (MLB,AAA,AA) to be "untouchable".

                          That way like the top 2 MLB players for the team wouldn't be traded, and there would be about 4 prospects(i.e. Harper..ect.) that wouldn't be traded.

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                          • Urban Achiever
                            Rookie
                            • Mar 2012
                            • 73

                            #28
                            Re: Franchise trading.

                            Originally posted by hitstreak13
                            Yea, I quit my franchise when Eric Hosmer was traded to the Padres for Cameron Mayben and Tim Stauffer LOL.
                            Why doesn't this ever happen when I propose trades lol. I know I could turn on forced trades, but that feels way too cheap of an experience.

                            Oh well.

                            Comment

                            • CubFan23
                              MVP
                              • Mar 2008
                              • 3985

                              #29
                              Re: Franchise trading.

                              As an offline franchise player this disappoints me. I haven't started yet, waiting for OSFM rosters. My question is don't the Dev's sim a season or 2 and see the wacky trades?
                              Playstation Network:That70s_Gamer


                              “I knew when my career was over. In 1965 my baseball card came out with no picture".
                              - Bob Uecker

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                              • CubFan23
                                MVP
                                • Mar 2008
                                • 3985

                                #30
                                Re: Franchise trading.

                                Just simmed a season to the trade deadline. Saw the Cardinals(5.5 games back) trade:

                                Carpenter To the Dodgers for Niese(traded to L.A in May) & cf-Steffan( A potential)

                                Furcal to SF for Price Milligan( B-potential-LF)

                                Tony Cruz(c) to Cleveland for Hafner & Chisenall

                                Berkman to ARZ for Overbay-Goldschmidt & Rosario Cabrera(LF-A-potential)

                                They traded for 3 1b when they had a pretty good one in Berkman(.270-14 hr-49rbi) through July 31

                                Another thing I noticed was alot of big name players being put on the trading block the first week of May!

                                Chipper also got traded but I forget to who.
                                Last edited by CubFan23; 03-14-2012, 10:36 AM.
                                Playstation Network:That70s_Gamer


                                “I knew when my career was over. In 1965 my baseball card came out with no picture".
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