2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

[CameRoN0407]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Just like to pop in to say a nice job by Totte and AC for the spreadsheet update. I love the added prospects, as it gives us some sort of feeling now! I also love the few "lol"s that pop up. Great job guys!

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Wait... Did I just make a decent trade proposal?!?!?! Anyways, which deal is the better one:

Josh Lindblom and Jeff Baker for J.A. Happ

Or

Jordy Mercer and Chris LeRoux for J.A. Happ

I'm slightly leaning toward the Texas deal but I don't have an available spot in my bullpen so I may convert Lindblom to a starter and leave him in Triple-A.

Honestly, I like the Pirates deal better. If you're talking Jeff Baker, he's basically garbage. I'd much rather have Mercer who's in his mid-20s and would be a solid defensive starter at 2B right now. Leroux is also in his mid-late 20s and sits in the low 90s.

Lindblom is better than Leroux in-game though, so go with the Texas deal if the reliever is more important. Go with the Pirates deal if the position player is more important to you.

Although, again, Texas is not the best destination for a SP, they've got Darvish/Ogando/Harrison/Holland/Lewis/Perez unless you have Harrison injured.

[BlueJays09]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Id take the Texas deal BlueJaysFan65....I have Baker (claimed off waivers so sent them a C Catcher) and he is great for me off the bench vs. LHP and Lindbloom is a useful depth arm.

As for Trumbo...PAY for him he is great in my dynasty. Hes played like 11 games and has 5 HR and like 11 RBI in those games for me....his power to opposite field has been great and he has decent defense at 1B (well better than EE in the game) so if you have to pay do it because he is worth it. I think I gave JP Arencibia (who made all star game as C and was having a beyond good year) plus Marcus Stroman

[Bluejaysfan65]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Honestly, I like the Pirates deal better. If you're talking Jeff Baker, he's basically garbage. I'd much rather have Mercer who's in his mid-20s and would be a solid defensive starter at 2B right now. Leroux is also in his mid-late 20s and sits in the low 90s.

Lindblom is better than Leroux in-game though, so go with the Texas deal if the reliever is more important. Go with the Pirates deal if the position player is more important to you.

Although, again, Texas is not the best destination for a SP, they've got Darvish/Ogando/Harrison/Holland/Lewis/Perez unless you have Harrison injured.

In my game, Harrison and Lewis are injured and Martin Perez is struggling. The main reason I like the Texas deal is that I can get Baker to replace Mark Derosa (who really sucks) and have Lindblom as a bullpen guy in AAA. I may trade away a relief pitcher later on if I get Lindblom.

[Bluejaysfan65]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Id take the Texas deal BlueJaysFan65....I have Baker (claimed off waivers so sent them a C Catcher) and he is great for me off the bench vs. LHP and Lindbloom is a useful depth arm.

As for Trumbo...PAY for him he is great in my dynasty. Hes played like 11 games and has 5 HR and like 11 RBI in those games for me....his power to opposite field has been great and he has decent defense at 1B (well better than EE in the game) so if you have to pay do it because he is worth it. I think I gave JP Arencibia (who made all star game as C and was having a beyond good year) plus Marcus Stroman

The thing is that I don't really need Trumbo. I do need some power though because something happened to Arencibia (ain't gonna say it because it's ahead in my dynasty).

[rjackson]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Alright AC, you wanted me back in this thread so I'll comment by saying that I agree with G3no.

You can't regress BABIP to the mean because you are then assuming that CarGo or any other person you do this with is going to have average barrelling/line drive skills. If you regressed Joey Votto to BABIP mean, you'll be assuming that he is much worse than he actually is because his BABIP is known to be high due to his skill level at this point.

I hate when BABIP is referred to as strictly luck. That can be a component (like being jammed but still getting it over the 3B) but the primary components are line drives or pulling a Tony Gwynn and aiming to shoot the ball through a specific hole in the IF and being successful at it. ZiPS tries to measure true skill level as does PECOTA etc, take a look at those updated numbers for proper regression. Plus, the work is already done for you.

As far as CarGo himself goes, regardless of stats or that Coors stigma that still gets slapped on people, he is a player that I would feel like I'm stealing from them for that value. The guy has power and speed. As the opposing battery, you don't want to put him on because it is too easy for him to get into scoring position but if you pitch to him...that could be worse. That combination is just so valuable. The other 3 "tools" are not as important as those 2 put together, EVER.

Honestly though, I could not see COL trading him even in a losing year for even Profar, maybe Taveras but then STL would still have to give up more just for GM job security. Even if trading CarGo was in the team's best interest, GMs are motivated by securing their own jobs and not the team's interests in the long run (generally speaking). That would indicate my value on him.

I will put this caveat on it, however. I've always felt that the spreadsheet undervalued players for reasons such as this. I could look at some players and think yeah, that's current value in the eyes of the fans and league...but the team with his rights would not give them up for that--that's what I mean by undervalued, that gap. I try to look at what it would realistically take to get them as the value.

[BlueJays09]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Thats fine about Trumbo but if your picking between Pit/Tex deals I would take Texas. Lindbloom as we all agree is better than Leroux but I think Baker is under rated in the game. In my game he had 67 contact and 73 power vs. LHP but crap against RHP. You want a bat to upgrade Derosa (who mainly plays against LHP) so Baker will provide you a nice bat vs. LHP (game wise of course not real life)

[Bluejaysfan65]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Thats fine about Trumbo but if your picking between Pit/Tex deals I would take Texas. Lindbloom as we all agree is better than Leroux but I think Baker is under rated in the game. In my game he had 67 contact and 73 power vs. LHP but crap against RHP. You want a bat to upgrade Derosa (who mainly plays against LHP) so Baker will provide you a nice bat vs. LHP (game wise of course not real life)

Yeah that's what I was thinking but if Mercer is close to the MLB, I might take a shot with him because he's younger and will likely have more progression as a player. Lindblom isn't a must-have because my bullpen has been shutdown (see dynasty for info) so far and I have some decent depth down in the minors as well.

[BlueJays09]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Just on the Cargo conversation, Im curious to know what the Jays would have to give up for him. He is listed on the trade block in my dynasty so of course I will look into it. Spreadsheet says High B, Mid B, Low B, High C.

I am just curious to know what would the Jays have to throw for Gonzo

[G3no_11]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Alright AC, you wanted me back in this thread so I'll comment by saying that I agree with G3no.

As far as CarGo himself goes, regardless of stats or that Coors stigma that still gets slapped on people, he is a player that I would feel like I'm stealing from them for that value. The guy has power and speed. As the opposing battery, you don't want to put him on because it is too easy for him to get into scoring position but if you pitch to him...that could be worse. That combination is just so valuable.

Honestly though, I could not see COL trading him even in a losing year

I will put this caveat on it, however. I've always felt that the spreadsheet undervalued players for reasons such as this. I could look at some players and think yeah, that's current value in the eyes of the fans and league...but the team with his rights would not give them up for that--that's what I mean by undervalued, that gap. I try to look at what it would realistically take to get them as the value.

This is pretty much what I was trying to get at. Overall value, CarGo might be worth the High B + Mid B + Low B + High C.. but I feel like that is a bargain. At that price, basically any team would be able to make that trade and I really don't see why anyone wouldn't make that trade lol. Not only with his hitting and speed but his outfield play is amazing... his speed, reaction, HR robbing ability, and he's gotta have one of the best arms in the outfield. (I saw him throw a runner out at home with a 2 hop throw from the LF corner today. A 347 foot throw )

My suggestion would probably be turning one of those B's into an A. Just so it better portrays what it would take to pry him from Colorado and so not any team could easily get him.

And yes, that is also how I feel about the spreadsheet. I generally agree with the values of the players, but I feel like the value and what it would actually take to acquire that player is different. As rjackson said.. there is a gap there that isn't accounted for.

EDIT: I'm not trying to bash anyone's opinions or the spreadsheet. But it could be beneficial to discuss.

[Deuce2223]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

I asked this earlier, but then the spreadsheet discussion started an then the CarGo debate.


What team would be a good fit for SS B. Ryan IRL (in real life) in my Franchise I am thinking the Tigers, because they don't really have a decent MLB backup MI. but was wondering what other teams might be a good fit.

Spreadsheet says 2 C prospects. (mid and low) I believe. I am looking to get back SP/RP.


Also thinking about trading T. Wilhemsen. He has 30 saves and a 3.31 ERA with a 0.98 WHIP and a BA of .210 combined in 32 IP (just went 4/4) in my past 4 games, but I dealt for G. Perkins from the Twins and have Capps in waiting.

Teams that could use CP help down in the playoff run is Milwaukee (Axford 2-3 34 saves but 5.19 ERA) St Louis (Motte 2-2 29 saves 3.00 ERA), Dodgers (League 24 saves 2.22 ERA), Giants (Romo 0-4 27 saves 4.07 ERA) Tampa Bay (Rodney 0-2 27 saves 3.67 ERA), Bluejays (Janseen 0-2 28 saves 3.45 ERA) Tigers (B. Rondon 2-4 21 saves 3.20 ERA, J. Valverde 3-4 3.68 16 saves) KC (Holland 24 saves 3.91)


Thank you in advance for any help

[nowitsourtime]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Per the Cargo discussion. I think that he is slightly undervalued on the spreadsheet. I would say High B, High B, mid B for Cargo because he still can do quite a few things well. I would have a hard time giving up an A due to the Coors factor still though. While he has performed this year away from Coors, it still doesn't override what he has done over the course of his entire career. If he makes it through the whole year and continues it into next year, we're looking at a possible withdrawl of that stigma...

I asked this earlier, but then the spreadsheet discussion started an then the CarGo debate.


What team would be a good fit for SS B. Ryan IRL (in real life) in my Franchise I am thinking the Tigers, because they don't really have a decent MLB backup MI. but was wondering what other teams might be a good fit.

Spreadsheet says 2 C prospects. (mid and low) I believe. I am looking to get back SP/RP.


Also thinking about trading T. Wilhemsen. He has 30 saves and a 3.31 ERA with a 0.98 WHIP and a BA of .210 combined in 32 IP (just went 4/4) in my past 4 games, but I dealt for G. Perkins from the Twins and have Capps in waiting.

Teams that could use CP help down in the playoff run is Milwaukee (Axford 2-3 34 saves but 5.19 ERA) St Louis (Motte 2-2 29 saves 3.00 ERA), Dodgers (League 24 saves 2.22 ERA), Giants (Romo 0-4 27 saves 4.07 ERA) Tampa Bay (Rodney 0-2 27 saves 3.67 ERA), Bluejays (Janseen 0-2 28 saves 3.45 ERA) Tigers (B. Rondon 2-4 21 saves 3.20 ERA, J. Valverde 3-4 3.68 16 saves) KC (Holland 24 saves 3.91)


Thank you in advance for any help

Have you thought of giving the Tigers both Ryan and Wilhelmsen? You could get a low B and a mid C for the two combined from the Tigers I would say.

Edit: Just checked the spreadsheet: 2 high C's for Wilhelmsen and high C, mid C for Ryan so I think low B and high C would be fair. How is Ryan doing?

As for actual player... Casey Crosby and Jose Ortega?

[Deuce2223]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

This is pretty much what I was trying to get at. Overall value, CarGo might be worth the High B + Mid B + Low B + High C.. but I feel like that is a bargain. At that price, basically any team would be able to make that trade and I really don't see why anyone wouldn't make that trade lol. Not only with his hitting and speed but his outfield play is amazing... his speed, reaction, HR robbing ability, and he's gotta have one of the best arms in the outfield. (I saw him throw a runner out at home with a 2 hop throw from the LF corner today. A 347 foot throw )

My suggestion would probably be turning one of those B's into an A. Just so it better portrays what it would take to pry him from Colorado and so not any team could easily get him.

And yes, that is also how I feel about the spreadsheet. I generally agree with the values of the players, but I feel like the value and what it would actually take to acquire that player is different. As rjackson said.. there is a gap there that isn't accounted for.

EDIT: I'm not trying to bash anyone's opinions or the spreadsheet. But it could be beneficial to discuss.

Okay so let's pretend we change it to a A.

Now lets say I give you J. Smoak (79 A), SP E. Ramirez (85 B), SP J. Paxton (79 B), and IF J. Marder (72 B) for Gonzalez, and you will still tell me it's unfair. Heck I would even throw in CF M. Saunders (77 A) or A. Either (88B) to replace Ramirez because he has already been traded there, and my guess is you will still say it's unfair.

Just so you know I did trade Ramirez to the Rockies in my thread for EY JR and C Lars Davis and so far he is 4-0 for them. EY is batting leadoff for me and (only .257 but does have 29 SB's which I need.).

Also Smoak in my Franchise is batting .277 with 14 HR but you go off on the argument that he sucks, and before you say the Rockies don't need SP, (well you might believe that IRL, they obviously don't because they drafted Gray over Moran,) they do on the game. All of the Rockies SP pitch like crap in sim games. Oswalt is the current #1 at 9-3 3.54 and Ramirez is the #2 at 5-2 2.84 ERA but the rest of the staff look like this

De La Rosa 3-9 5.49
J. Chacin 4-11 5.57
C. Friedrich 4-7 5.56
J. Nicasio 3-2 4.85
J. Francis 4-6 4.02

AAA
D. Pomeranz 8-8 4.42
C. Volstad 3-6 4.38
T. Matzek 4-2 4.78
T. Anderson 6-6 4.46
R. Scahill 5-4 5.27
T. Chatwood 6-5 5.06

AA
E. Butler their #1, 5-8 5.11 ERA

Also for more fun stats. T Helton is batting .267 with 7 HR and Gonzo's stats are .297 18 HR 63 RBI.

This is on July 30th in my Franchise.

[Deuce2223]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Have you thought of giving the Tigers both Ryan and Wilhelmsen? You could get a low B and a mid C for the two combined from the Tigers I would say.

Edit: Just checked the spreadsheet: 2 high C's for Wilhelmsen and high C, mid C for Ryan so I think low B and high C would be fair. How is Ryan doing?

As for actual player... Casey Crosby and Jose Ortega?

Ryan is batting below .200

Crosby is 8-2 in AAA with a 4.83 ERA, Ortega is 1-1 with a 2.08 ERA in 13 IP in AA.

So that might work, however the more I look at my team OF would be another option at the AA/AAA level so what about S. Moya (59 C) but rated #11 in the Tigers Top-20.

[BlueJays09]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

If Cargo is batting .339 with 21 HR, 75 RBI and 15 SB and Rockies are last in their division 53-55...I know DBacks are 53-54, Padres 53-54, Dodgers 54-50, and Giants 55-50.

They have Cargo listed as ON THE BLOCK meaning they are prob looking for a haul. I have a surplus of players and would look to make a deal for them involving anyone not named Robby Cano to get him if the deal makes sense for me. 2 Days until the deadline, so just scouting what Cargo would cost from the Jays. Would I need to deal Jose or EE + Prospects? If so whats the price ? All the Rockies fans should be able to help me here lol