Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 14 Version]

[CaseIH]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 14 Version]

What Brian@SCEA wrote earlier in this thread is that making pitch speed not affect the steal aspect has been attempted, but it caused too many unwanted side effects and it was scratched. It's reasonable that we aren't always updated with such a change; the game constantly improves internally, and it's not necessarily their job to inform us (though it's always nice to be informed). But I wouldn't have to lower pitch speed so much if the steal aspect was working normally. If you are interested, go back to earlier posts in the thread as to why things are this way.

I actually don't think there's any issue with errors. Errors aren't something that happens all the time, so even with the amount of data I have gathered (see the links in my posts for spreadsheet), we are susceptible to the variation due to small sample size. Human aspect might be difficult to balance with the way the error-related sliders are global (i.e., applies both to AI and HUM). Given there is a wide variety in user skills, I don't think there is a single way that solves all the issues. We need to make a compromise or lobby for separate sliders for CPU and HUM.




MoM doesn't have a notion of difficulty level. It has been "speculated" that it plays on All-star. If you are worried, just set the levels to All-star. You probably won't see anything different anyways. (I haven't seen any when I did change them.)





The motivation for some to use different slider sets for gameplay and sim is that these two types of games run on different engines, only a small subset of sliders (stamina, injury, pitcher hook, iirc) applies to simmed games. Other than the subset, you cannot really influence the simmed game results through sliders; the game balance is pretty much hardcoded, so the only way to vastly influence the simulation results is through modifying player attribute ratings.

But the simulation engine yield for the most part pretty good results compared to MLB in real life. There are slight deviations here and there, but the real baseball keeps changing all the time so trying to be excessively accurate would only end up in an unfruitful cat-and-mouth game. And it's been said that the simulation results are relatively stable over long haul compared to what used to happen in the franchise (as you go deeper into RTTS/franchise, the offense starts to dominate).

I have lobbied for years to have seperate HUM/CPU sliders for errors. I hardly ever see the AI make errors, unless Im playing a minor league game. I dont commit very mnay either, but I use the Reds and they are the best D in baseball so I would expect to be solid on D with them.

Overall with the sliders I use II do get very accurate stats thruout my franchise.

[dsmith710]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 14 Version]

Hey nomo, I'm seeing stolen bases are happening too easily. Through 6 games I haven't had anyone thrown out yet for either team. It looks to me like the ball is getting there a step or two late.

The amount of steals isn't a problem, so do you have any suggestions what needs tweaked? Is this something a bump or two in pitch speed will help?

[kcsam]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 14 Version]

I was thinking the same thing.

Nomo - Would you suggest raising pitch speed a click or two to compensate for the steal success rate.

[BrianU]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 14 Version]

Man for a game that prides itself and puts so much work into being simulation the whole 'pitch speed slider affecting steal success' issue is quite major. It is messed up that you have to choose between realistic steal success % or accurate pitcher speed representation. It is unacceptable that I am forced to play with Pitch speed 0 to achieve stolen base realism. I am def making a post about this in the main forum because if we aren't loud about it then it won't be fixed for next year. I like this game way too much to let something like that go unheard.

I am a bit disappointed that they did not fix it this year in a patch, when you have the work nomo and others in the community do in the slider forum with fine testing the game and exposing the core issues there is no excuse. SCEA has free game testers in the slider forum I wish they'd use them more, the internal simulations they do are not adequate if something this majorly wrong can be in the game. Real world testing will always be better than a simulation. I don't remember this being an issue in MLB 13, it's quite perplexing.

Maybe I am blowing things out of proportion but I don't think so. The rest of the game is so solid that it makes this so much more abhorrent. Has anyone found a reasonable way to get MLB average steal percentage using Pitch speed 10? I don't think raising baserunner speed is a reasonable fix as that will throw other areas of the game out of whack and players already run at a realistic speed to first base if you time it and compare to real life. Perhaps even a little too fast. I don't see any way to fix this without SCEA's input and for a sports game that shouldn't be the case. Ideally we should enough sliders to fix it and any other statistical anamoly, because as in this case if you rely on the devs to get it right there is a chance they won't and were stuck with a messy situation. Give the power to the people!

[kcsam]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 14 Version]

Man for a game that prides itself and puts so much work into being simulation the whole 'pitch speed slider affecting steal success' issue is quite major. It is messed up that you have to choose between realistic steal success % or accurate pitcher speed representation. It is unacceptable that I am forced to play with Pitch speed 0 to achieve stolen base realism. I am def making a post about this in the main forum because if we aren't loud about it then it won't be fixed for next year. I like this game way too much to let something like that go unheard.

I am a bit disappointed that they did not fix it this year in a patch, when you have the work nomo and others in the community do in the slider forum with fine testing the game and exposing the core issues there is no excuse. SCEA has free game testers in the slider forum I wish they'd use them more, the internal simulations they do are not adequate if something this majorly wrong can be in the game. Real world testing will always be better than a simulation. I don't remember this being an issue in MLB 13, it's quite perplexing.

Maybe I am blowing things out of proportion but I don't think so. The rest of the game is so solid that it makes this so much more abhorrent. Has anyone found a reasonable way to get MLB average steal percentage using Pitch speed 10? I don't think raising baserunner speed is a reasonable fix as that will throw other areas of the game out of whack and players already run at a realistic speed to first base if you time it and compare to real life. Perhaps even a little too fast. I don't see any way to fix this without SCEA's input and for a sports game that shouldn't be the case. Ideally we should enough sliders to fix it and any other statistical anamoly, because as in this case if you rely on the devs to get it right there is a chance they won't and were stuck with a messy situation. Give the power to the people!

Great post. I haven't found a way around the stolen base issue without lowering the pitch speed. I think right now I have it set at 2, as Nomo suggested. I think the devs were made aware of the issue and chose not to fix it. I am not sure if it's an issue on next gen console though. I'm assuming it's not an issue over there. Same with the budget increases at the end of the season.

[dsmith710]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 14 Version]

I raised my pitch speed to 10 and I think it helped. Ive been thrown out a couple times. Something else I noticed is either the runners are getting insanely good jumps or my pitchers are just taking forever to get through the pitch motion.

[BrianU]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 14 Version]

I raised my pitch speed to 10 and I think it helped. Ive been thrown out a couple times. Something else I noticed is either the runners are getting insanely good jumps or my pitchers are just taking forever to get through the pitch motion.

I think you misunderstand. In Nomo's tests which is on the front page you can see the spreadsheet with various pitch speeds he used and using 10 pitch speed results in 40% stolen base success for the CPU while the MLB average is actually around 70% success. It's one of those things that might not feel off but once you look at the stats and compare it is hard to ignore or enjoy that part of the game. I don't see the fun in handicapping the CPU offense as they need all the help they can get. I like the feeling when on the mound and the fear of giving up a single to a speedy guy. It changes the entire game for worse and needs to be fixed next year.

[dsmith710]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 14 Version]

I think you misunderstand. In Nomo's tests which is on the front page you can see the spreadsheet with various pitch speeds he used and using 10 pitch speed results in 40% stolen base success for the CPU while the MLB average is actually around 70% success. It's one of those things that might not feel off but once you look at the stats and compare it is hard to ignore or enjoy that part of the game. I don't see the fun in handicapping the CPU offense as they need all the help they can get. I like the feeling when on the mound and the fear of giving up a single to a speedy guy. It changes the entire game for worse and needs to be fixed next year.

Well I use the hybrid rosters. so since the ratings have been adjusted maybe that's where I see the difference. But with those rosters and pitch speed low, I was to the point where I didn't want to steal because I knew it wouldn't even be close with me getting to the bag way before the ball. Bumping it to 10 for me has changed that.

[kcsam]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 14 Version]

With those Hybrid rosters, how do you guys deal with the rookies that come in the next year? Their ratings would be a lot different than the manually edited rosters. Do you manually edit all of them to fall in line with the existing edited players? Seems like everything would be a bit off-kilter if changes weren't made every off-season. Just curious what you guys do since I play with the rosters that came with the game.

[BrianU]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 14 Version]

Well I use the hybrid rosters. so since the ratings have been adjusted maybe that's where I see the difference. But with those rosters and pitch speed low, I was to the point where I didn't want to steal because I knew it wouldn't even be close with me getting to the bag way before the ball. Bumping it to 10 for me has changed that.

That's a good point I need to check those out. I am talking about the CPU running game not so much the USER. I feel as the USER you can probably overcome the difficulty of stealing on a higher pitch speed due to getting the timing nailed on manual stealing+leading off larger, but as Nomo's results how the CPU base stealing pretty much disappears when you raise pitch speed. That is the the major issue that needs to be looked at.

[dsmith710]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 14 Version]

With those Hybrid rosters, how do you guys deal with the rookies that come in the next year? Their ratings would be a lot different than the manually edited rosters. Do you manually edit all of them to fall in line with the existing edited players? Seems like everything would be a bit off-kilter if changes weren't made every off-season. Just curious what you guys do since I play with the rosters that came with the game.

I haven't had to deal with that issue. I struggle to get through 162-game season so the rookie thing hasn't been a problem for me, yet. Sorry I can't be more help.

[dsmith710]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 14 Version]

That's a good point I need to check those out. I am talking about the CPU running game not so much the USER. I feel as the USER you can probably overcome the difficulty of stealing on a higher pitch speed due to getting the timing nailed on manual stealing+leading off larger, but as Nomo's results how the CPU base stealing pretty much disappears when you raise pitch speed. That is the the major issue that needs to be looked at.

I guess we are talking about different points? My current season with these sliders is in Manager Mode. so it's all CPU for me. Only thing I'm controlling is if they steal, not when or how big of a lead they get.

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 14 Version]

Man for a game that prides itself and puts so much work into being simulation the whole 'pitch speed slider affecting steal success' issue is quite major. It is messed up that you have to choose between realistic steal success % or accurate pitcher speed representation. It is unacceptable that I am forced to play with Pitch speed 0 to achieve stolen base realism. I am def making a post about this in the main forum because if we aren't loud about it then it won't be fixed for next year. I like this game way too much to let something like that go unheard.

I am a bit disappointed that they did not fix it this year in a patch, when you have the work nomo and others in the community do in the slider forum with fine testing the game and exposing the core issues there is no excuse. SCEA has free game testers in the slider forum I wish they'd use them more, the internal simulations they do are not adequate if something this majorly wrong can be in the game. Real world testing will always be better than a simulation. I don't remember this being an issue in MLB 13, it's quite perplexing.

Maybe I am blowing things out of proportion but I don't think so. The rest of the game is so solid that it makes this so much more abhorrent. Has anyone found a reasonable way to get MLB average steal percentage using Pitch speed 10? I don't think raising baserunner speed is a reasonable fix as that will throw other areas of the game out of whack and players already run at a realistic speed to first base if you time it and compare to real life. Perhaps even a little too fast. I don't see any way to fix this without SCEA's input and for a sports game that shouldn't be the case. Ideally we should enough sliders to fix it and any other statistical anamoly, because as in this case if you rely on the devs to get it right there is a chance they won't and were stuck with a messy situation. Give the power to the people!

The developers actually do use our feedback, and it's one of the reasons why SCEA has the community days where the representatives from the community interact directly with them to get the issues sorted out. It's just that software testing takes quite a bit of resources, and given the size of the game and the lack of time (bringing out new stuff annually on a project of this scale is difficult), things are often not perfect.

As someone who runs a couple hundred games just for testing myself, I can tell you it's quite time-consuming to test all these things. I asked the developers if the testing the game engine could be accelerated (depending on how things are set up, there are things developers could do to skip certain things for testing a certain part while not compromising the integrity of testing as a whole, like not presenting graphics in real time for visualization) when I had a fortune of being invited to the community days a couple years ago, but they cannot necessarily do that because of the complexity of in-game physics simulation, for example.

And the developers can almost never test things as thoroughly as the entire community does. Even if they hire 100 testers spending all their time looking for bugs (which would be massive), the amount of glitches they can find is minuscule compared to 100 thousand people playing this game at once.

That's basically what's happening with all those games we play these days which are definitely always rushed out. As a consumer, I would personally want the game to be updated and released when it's ready, as many or as few times (which is what many other developers use for development cycles these days... just not things like games which need to be packaged as a new product every once and while). But many gamers these days expect annual release cycle, so it's basically a cat and mouse game now.

I'm not trying to make excuse or defend SCEA, but I'm just providing a perspective. My point that SCEA really do value our feedback. Whether they have enough resources to make things happen really depends.

I guess we are talking about different points? My current season with these sliders is in Manager Mode. so it's all CPU for me. Only thing I'm controlling is if they steal, not when or how big of a lead they get.

I didn't really notice much change after the patch, but steal is indeed a not a very easy thing to nail down because they are situational... if you are doing the gameplay only for your MoM team, it is entirely possible that you are a speedy team and you expect a lot of successful steal attempt. Or if you are defending against base stealers, it's possible that your catcher doesn't have arm strength/accuracy or your pitchers have slow pitch/delivery out of stretch. These are just examples that could affect why your results might be difference from what I saw. I rotate teams and players to get a more general picture, but if you want to suppress successful stealing, then (according to my testing), you should be able to generate more caught stealing by increasing Pitch Speed, which you wrote you have done. So it is okay, isn't it?

[manooly]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 14 Version]

Hey Nomo17k, will you be looking into CPU vs CPU sliders for MLB 15/PS3? I sure hope so! I have used your input/sliders to create my CPU vs CPU franchise the past few years. I look forward to hearing back from you!

- manooly

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 14 Version]

Hey Nomo17k, will you be looking into CPU vs CPU sliders for MLB 15/PS3? I sure hope so! I have used your input/sliders to create my CPU vs CPU franchise the past few years. I look forward to hearing back from you!

- manooly

I'll be working on MLB 15 slider in this thread:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...5-version.html

This is for PS4, but I don't expect things to differ that much between consoles (after all, the slider vault is shared across all consoles). Last year, PS3 and PS4 sliders worked identically.