Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

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  • nomo17k
    Permanently Banned
    • Feb 2011
    • 5735

    #286
    Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

    Originally posted by rjackson
    With pitcher control at 2, it was looking like walks were down for a bit. It is normalizing a bit now. Wondering if you ever considered ticking up strike frequency to 6 - FP STK% seems consistently low although overall strick% is pretty good. The 1-0 count is good for hitters as well. Though with 2-5-5 cont-cons-freq settings, it is interesting that walks and HR's are down while AVG is up. If you did tick up freq, it probably affects other stuff as well but I'm not sure what. Contact I'm guessing.
    I have considered and have used Strike Frequency at 6 (4/20 - 4/29 sets)... but I think it has to go with some measure to lower the pitchers ability to throw strikes, otherwise walks will be down. Most effective being Pitcher Consistency but given the wild pitch/HBP situation, I don't want to keep it higher if possible.

    And if you look at the early-count strike %, it's only slightly down but not that much, so I'm more inclined to look at that than just the first-pitch strike %, which for some reason has been consistently down a couple % or so in the PS4 generation of the game... strike % of 55% is roughly the magic number that indicates the pitchers' natural ability to throw pitches in the strike zone (when hitters are not swinging at all), so my guess is that in the course making CPU less aggressive (which was a frequent complaint a few years back), I think CPU hitters are made to swing at less first pitches, and that might be the reason for the difference between FP/EC strike %.


    So effectively, the tweak for the 5/22 & 5/23 set is based from the beta set of 3-4-5 (Pitcher Control/Consistency/Frequency) to 2-5-5... I am not surprised the batting average is up slightly, because with Control down, a few more pitches drift into the hittable portion of the strike zone. Walks being down is also kind of expected since Pitcher Consistency is much more effective in influencing the number of walks than Control (with Consistency 4, walks are slightly overproduced, but with 5 they are slightly underproduced...).

    HR being slightly down is a little puzzling to me, as I would expect consistently poorer Control to help produce more meat pitches to go for HRs, but it is not so apparent. What might be happening is that the increase in Consistency isn't sufficiently compensated by the decrease in Control, and the setting is making pitchers in the zone of "effective wildness" in terms of avoiding HRs (i.e., with poorer Control, some pitches become meatballs, but even more drift away from hittable part of the strike zone).

    BTW, my current understanding/educated guessing of how the Control slider works is based on something like this (from the last year's thread): http://www.operationsports.com/forum...7&postcount=56


    Originally posted by nomo17k
    The guide line for the Pitcher Control slider:


    But I think overall I do like how 5/22 & 5/23 sets look. BABIP is consistently higher (might be a little too high), so the offense comes at the right amount, but HR isn't inflated so it feels like good, non-arcade-y baseball to me.

    The choice between these and the recommended beta set is mostly the balance between hits and walks. If you prefer more hits, go with 5/22 or 5/23 set, but if you prefer more walks, you go with the current beta set.
    The Show CPU vs. CPU game stats: 2018,17,16,15,14,13,12,11

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    • rjackson
      MVP
      • Apr 2005
      • 1661

      #287
      Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

      Power numbers are down and SP in too long? We knew we had to look at stamina again. What is up with power down after droppin consistency a notch?

      Comment

      • nomo17k
        Permanently Banned
        • Feb 2011
        • 5735

        #288
        Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

        Originally posted by rjackson
        Power numbers are down and SP in too long? We knew we had to look at stamina again. What is up with power down after droppin consistency a notch?
        Power number isn't really down that much... for all recent sets HRs are about 12.3% of all hits, so it's not a hit type thing. It looks down because the overall batting average is down.

        Since the overall offense is down, even at the same Manager Hook, starting pitchers are left in a little longer... so that's also expected. I increased stamina by one from the 5/23 & 5/22 sets because I wanted to see starters throw a couple more pitches per start on average, which it does now. I'd expect IP/G to be right around where I want it if the offense comes up a little bit, which isn't guaranteed with the 5/27 set.

        But the reason for using 2/4/5 (Control/Consistency/Strike Frequency) is that I just wanted to probe a combination that I haven't tested much, just to see if there are better combination(s) than what I have already tested. Basically this is a Control 2 modification of the beta (5/16 & 5/14v2) set (3/4/5).
        The Show CPU vs. CPU game stats: 2018,17,16,15,14,13,12,11

        Comment

        • wanzalla13
          Rookie
          • Jul 2012
          • 235

          #289
          Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

          Originally posted by nomo17k
          Power number isn't really down that much... for all recent sets HRs are about 12.3% of all hits, so it's not a hit type thing. It looks down because the overall batting average is down.

          Since the overall offense is down, even at the same Manager Hook, starting pitchers are left in a little longer... so that's also expected. I increased stamina by one from the 5/23 & 5/22 sets because I wanted to see starters throw a couple more pitches per start on average, which it does now. I'd expect IP/G to be right around where I want it if the offense comes up a little bit, which isn't guaranteed with the 5/27 set.

          But the reason for using 2/4/5 (Control/Consistency/Strike Frequency) is that I just wanted to probe a combination that I haven't tested much, just to see if there are better combination(s) than what I have already tested. Basically this is a Control 2 modification of the beta (5/16 & 5/14v2) set (3/4/5).
          How do I get to your latest slider set? Is it the one one the first page?

          Comment

          • nomo17k
            Permanently Banned
            • Feb 2011
            • 5735

            #290
            Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

            Originally posted by wanzalla13
            How do I get to your latest slider set? Is it the one one the first page?
            The currently recommended set(s) are in the very first post.
            The Show CPU vs. CPU game stats: 2018,17,16,15,14,13,12,11

            Comment

            • wanzalla13
              Rookie
              • Jul 2012
              • 235

              #291
              Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

              Originally posted by nomo17k
              The currently recommended set(s) are in the very first post.
              Thanks

              Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

              Comment

              • DFowler24
                Rookie
                • Apr 2009
                • 22

                #292
                Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

                Are these used for sim games as well or just strictly watching CPU vs. CPU?

                Comment

                • nomo17k
                  Permanently Banned
                  • Feb 2011
                  • 5735

                  #293
                  Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

                  Originally posted by DFowler24
                  Are these used for sim games as well or just strictly watching CPU vs. CPU?
                  Most sliders (except Manager Hook, Stamina, Injury) are irrelevant and have no effect in simmed games.
                  The Show CPU vs. CPU game stats: 2018,17,16,15,14,13,12,11

                  Comment

                  • rjackson
                    MVP
                    • Apr 2005
                    • 1661

                    #294
                    Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

                    Very interesting numbers Nomo with the strike freq at 6. It is getting a better mix of strike% across the board. I didn't check what that did to deep strikes. Everything else looked good except maybe HR's up a tick

                    Comment

                    • forme95
                      MVP
                      • Nov 2013
                      • 3118

                      #295
                      Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

                      How are complete games looking?
                      Really wish sports games played to ratings!
                      Only thing SIM about sports games now, are the team name and players
                      CFB 25 The absolute GOAT!!!
                      MLB 23 FOREVER 20 is better, 23 just for Guardians
                      Madden get rid of the extras (SS/XF, HFA, media, scenarios, game plan) or turn them down considerably.

                      Comment

                      • mellis302
                        Rookie
                        • Apr 2017
                        • 10

                        #296
                        Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

                        New update applied. Anyone have details of the contents or where to find them?

                        THANKS!

                        Comment

                        • orye74
                          MVP
                          • Aug 2012
                          • 1163

                          #297
                          Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

                          I give this game a B for BLAH! Maybe next year will be better.

                          Comment

                          • rjackson
                            MVP
                            • Apr 2005
                            • 1661

                            #298
                            Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

                            Originally posted by mellis302
                            New update applied. Anyone have details of the contents or where to find them?

                            THANKS!
                            Right on the front page of the forum for The Show. BCruise posted it. It is all about online play and nothing for MoM.
                            Originally posted by orye74
                            I give this game a B for BLAH! Maybe next year will be better.
                            I don't think this belongs in this thread. I don't think this deserves its own thread, though, either. It's just a statement of opinion with nothing supporting it.

                            Comment

                            • nomo17k
                              Permanently Banned
                              • Feb 2011
                              • 5735

                              #299
                              Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

                              Sorry I got a bit busy and hasn't been able to responding timely...


                              Originally posted by rjackson
                              Very interesting numbers Nomo with the strike freq at 6. It is getting a better mix of strike% across the board. I didn't check what that did to deep strikes. Everything else looked good except maybe HR's up a tick

                              Yeah, it is indeed interesting. The only change in the 6/2 set (from the 5/29 set) is Strike Frequency from 5 to 6, and predictably BB% went down but SO% went up. I would've liked to see a little smaller change but it is what it is.

                              The deep strike % has gone up from 10.8% to 11.6% when Strike Frequency is increased. I suppose that made a few more pitches to be around the center of the strike zone, which in turn contributed to more HRs and XBHs. Making pitchers aggressively throw pitches in the strike zone has a trade off... not all strikes are good strikes.

                              Tweaking Control/Consistency/Strike Frequency in various combinations, I think I am getting a clearer picture of what B Ma wrote about on the topic of how these sliders work.




                              Originally posted by Brian SCEA
                              pbeardy and pbz06 make some good points about what the two sliders can do in practice. Here's some extra info that might help everyone interested in these sliders.

                              The Consistency and Control sliders work in different ways, and both can cause more walks and meatballs for different reasons. Let's look at walks first. Consistency can really help walks because the pitcher will sometimes make big obvious misses that are easier for the hitter to spot. Control can help walks with less control because you'll be forced to pitch around hitters more for fear of throwing meatballs. So the Consistency effect is mechanical - it's up to the hitter to notice the ball, and the Control effect is strategic - it's up to the pitcher to throw the ball.

                              Regarding Control, notice that if you reduce the pitch control and simply pitch exactly the way you used to, you're going to give up more meatballs (instead of more walks!). So whether the slider affects walks or meatballs is entirely up to the pitcher. The game will only play based on your input, and there's no slider to change that.

                              On the AI side, you can decide which effect happens more (meatballs/walks) based on your CPU Strike Frequency setting. All of the sliders serve an interconnected purpose like this.

                              Regarding Consistency, notice that it mainly helps batters with their Discipline. If you already have good discipline it might not help you draw more walks because you were already taking balls (including everything borderline). But if you rarely draw walks it could potentially double or triple the number of walks you get.

                              This is why even though both sliders affect walks and meatballs, some people would consider Consistency to be more related to walks and Control to be more related to meatballs. But really, they both affect both depending on the situation and team tendencies. For example we've seen how the answer will depend on if we're talking a Human or AI batter for Consistency, and if we're talking a Human or AI pitcher for Control. It also depends on if the batter is having Discipline trouble (for Consistency) and if the pitcher can adapt his strategy (for Control).

                              This is why it's possible to debate in circles forever on what they do; the answer is blowing in the wind..

                              It's very interesting how these sliders are designed.
                              The Show CPU vs. CPU game stats: 2018,17,16,15,14,13,12,11

                              Comment

                              • nomo17k
                                Permanently Banned
                                • Feb 2011
                                • 5735

                                #300
                                Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

                                Originally posted by forme95
                                How are complete games looking?
                                It is actually quite low... just a couple out of 200 games or so at Manager Hook 4. I have been testing it closer to default since patch (1.07 I believe) mentioned there was tuning done to starter hook.

                                Perhaps it should be at least be at 3 or below if alining CGs is necessary.
                                The Show CPU vs. CPU game stats: 2018,17,16,15,14,13,12,11

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