itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Sliders

[The_Gryphon75]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

It’s all about you personally for it...it allows for the ratings of the different shine...you will be seeing the speed and defense shine from the gold glovers, compared to some one you just called up from the minors...I couldn’t tell you how many times the glove of andleron Simmons (angles ss) have saved runs for me deep in the hole...or watching Trout fly through the Cf running down the ball...

I just say give it a try for a series 3 games or more and if you don’t like it go back...but it makes you think when building a team instead of going all offense, it makes you think should a get defense bench players or start that weak hitting Ss or Cf just cause he is going to say me runs...

Just food for thought...

I will definitely try to play some games tomorrow afternoon as you suggest to compare the different styles.
PS: very, very interesting reading that thread on Classing pitching.

[lere2001]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

I would really really recommend auto fielding! You still choose where they throw it to but it makes players ratings more important so you actually have to think about your team construction and cant just put all your best hitters out there that are terrible at fielding

[lere2001]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

I definitely do think after further testing that CPU needs more offense. Do you think Solid hits to 9 is the best way to do that right now?

[itbeme23]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Back to the bullpen talk.... Just wanted to post this, what I read in a different thread.


I've done a lot of testing on this issue in the past via sliders, and I've managed to find a solution that works... mostly. There was no combination of sliders that completely solved CPU bullpen management to my satisfaction, but I was able to close the gap significantly.

My testing showed that the CPU cared way too much about maintaining the effectiveness of their bullpen, so much so that they would rather trot out someone who is tired already and protect the rest of their bullpen then try and go for the win in a close game. By raising reliever stamina, I also raised the total effective pitches in the CPU bullpen, making the CPU manager less concerned about that factor and more concerned about the situation.

I combined that change with raising the CPU manager hook, which again made the situation a larger factor. I currently play with all pitcher staminas at 7 and CPU manager hook at 6. The goal is for pitchers to start loosing effectiveness when their pitch count hits the same number as their stamina attribute, and for the most part that holds true at these settings.

It's not perfect for every game, but most games the CPU mirrors what I would do in those situations.

Dammit, Kid! You're almost forcing me to open up this Pandora's box of CPU bullpen management. LOL

That's some really good info there, and it may be worth looking into. At first glance, my concern is more of the CPU management, especially with Manager Hook so high. Raising Stamina is less of a concern, because I still think the manager pulls more on performance rather than lack of energy, at least as it pertains to the starters. However, if I'm understanding things correctly, it seems the Stamina slider plays a big role in how the CPU utilizes their bullpen.

I think I may be giving those suggestions a shot for a series or two to see if that could work for us. If it removes the necessity for the user to manage the CPU for them, then I'm all for it.

Thanks for that info! Really good stuff.

I definitely do think after further testing that CPU needs more offense. Do you think Solid hits to 9 is the best way to do that right now?

Hey, man. Thanks for chiming in. It seems like we're all starting to arrive at the conclusion - the CPU offense needs a shot in the arm. To make sure we're all on the same page, we need to be testing the same sliders. I'm all for adjusting things to your liking, but we need to develop a base from which to work FIRST.

So....with that said, let's start with the following:

CPU Contact: 4
- I really don't want to go higher than this. At default, you'll see a drastic reduction in swings and misses, which not only affects CPU K rate, but also has a negative effect on user pitch counts, because the CPU swings more often, which results in more balls put in play. The Contact slider does not have as much of an effect on hits/batting average as Solid Hits does.

CPU Power: 3
- I'm confident with this value. Don't touch.

CPU Timing: 5
- This balances out the increase in Contact. If for some reason we determine we NEED to go higher on Contact, we will need to start adjusting this slider, which essentially means we go back to the drawing board to start from scratch. I'm trying to avoid that if at all possible.

CPU Solid Hits: 9
- Tried this at 8. Still anemic offense. Somebody said it earlier in the thread: the CPU isn't posing a "consistent threat" on offense. That's what we're trying to rectify. The problem that we're encountering is we're running out of room to play with with Solid Hits set at 9. If for some reason, we can't get the CPU offense to perform better at 9 or 10, then we'll need to reassess the Contact value, which will require us to look at Timing, and so on and so forth. It'll be a cascading effect if the CPU doesn't show drastic offensive improvement with the increases to Solid Hits.

CPU Foul Frequency: 5
- Foul Frequency works closely in conjunction with Contact. The higher the Contact value, the lower Foul Frequency needs to be. This effects Foul Ball strike percentages, as well as user pitch counts. My suggestion is to leave this slider as-is while we are testing CPU offense.

Let's keep the discussion going. I hate to burden y'all with testing, but at this point, it's obvious that we have an issue, and the more people I can get feedback from, the better I can determine which direction to take the sliders.

Cheers!

[itbeme23]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Hey, dudes.

Updated the OP to "officially" re-open testing on for CPU hitting. It seems like I may have pulled the trigger too early in finalizing the set, and for that, I apologize.

The good news is other aspects of the set: user offense/pitching, CPU pitching, errors, reaction, baserunning, etc. are still performing exactly where they should be, in my opinion.

If we can get the CPU offense back on track, we should be good to go moving forward.

Once again, thanks for all the feedback and suggestions. I appreciate it.

Cheers.

[The Kid 24]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Dammit, Kid! You're almost forcing me to open up this Pandora's box of CPU bullpen management. LOL

That's some really good info there, and it may be worth looking into. At first glance, my concern is more of the CPU management, especially with Manager Hook so high. Raising Stamina is less of a concern, because I still think the manager pulls more on performance rather than lack of energy, at least as it pertains to the starters. However, if I'm understanding things correctly, it seems the Stamina slider plays a big role in how the CPU utilizes their bullpen.

I think I may be giving those suggestions a shot for a series or two to see if that could work for us. If it removes the necessity for the user to manage the CPU for them, then I'm all for it.

Thanks for that info! Really good stuff.

Haha, you're welcome and sorry at the same time!

[itbeme23]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Hey, guys.

So, for anybody who is interested in testing the CPU hitting sliders, I'd really appreciate you posting relevant stats. What we're looking for is not only the obvious (i.e. number of hits, hit variety, XBH, etc.), but also the overall "feel" of the CPU hitting (i.e. Do the hits feel legit? Are they cheap hits? Solid hits vs. bloopers/flares, etc.). For the feel of the hitting, I will be reviewing the CPU hits in the replay vault on a per-game basis, and I will include anything notable in my post.

So, this is kinda the format I'll be following:

STL: 5 10 0
LAD: 3 6 2

CPU Offense:

1B: 6
2B: 3
3B: 1
HR: 0

Batting Avg: 10/38 (.263)
Walks: 2
Strikeouts: 9
Foul Ball Strike Percentage: 26.8%

Notes:
So, of the CPU's 6 singles, 4 of them were "deflected" - meaning user fielders attempted dives, but did not make the play. Three of those deflections occurred by infielders (Seager and Lux). The fourth was a blooper that Bellinger had virtually no chance on, so the dive seemed unnecessary. But, seeing Seager and Lux not make these plays is annoying the crap out of me, especially when they both have decent fielding ratings (53 and 75, respectively). I feel like Seager (at least) would make those plays. All I know is four deflections in one game is a lot, and I'm now going to be tracking those more closely during this testing. The only thing I can think to remedy these issues is adjusting IF Reaction and/or Outfielder Speed, but then you run into issues of "psychic" fielders being in position to make plays before they happen. The other possible solution would be to lower fielding errors even more, but that would seem to nerf errors out of the game completely. I'm thinking this is something that could be tuned in a patch; so I don't want to have to start adjusting the Reaction/Speed sliders unless we absolutely need to.

I was happy with the extra base hits, though, which is a plus. The doubles looked great. A nice liner into the gap by Goldschmidt, a stretch-bloop double by Tommy Edman (one of the fastest guys on the Cards), and an opposite field, down the line double by Lane Thomas. The triple was an absolute rocket by Edman to the right field gap that Mookie had to play off the wall. Not surprising that Edman was able to take three because of his speed. So, those, I'm happy with. The singles, particularly the deflections, are the area of concern for me right now.

[itbeme23]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Sigh....

PIT: 1 3 0
LAD: 5 9 1

CPU Offense:

1B: 3
Batting Average: 3/29 (.103)
Walks: 3
Strikeouts: 3

Notes:

More of the same here. Didn't feel threatened at all this game. The Pirates didn't have their first baserunner until the 4th inning. I hope it was just one of "those" games. I have to consider the source, because the Bucs aren't an offensive powerhouse by any stretch. But damn...three hits all game. Just pathetic. I also noticed an aggressiveness by the CPU hitters to swing early in the count. Alex Wood went down with a finger blister in the 4th inning, and at that point he had only had 52 pitches to his credit. As a staff, the Dodgers only threw 106 pitches the entire game.

Really hoping for better results next game.

[itbeme23]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Marginally better...

PIT: 2 10 0
LAD: 1 7 2

CPU Offense:
1B: 9
2B: 1
3B: 0
HR: 0

Batting Average: 10/38 (.263)
Walks: 0
Strikeouts: 5

Notes:

I was slightly encouraged at the beginning of this game when the Pirates got to Kershaw with two runs on 4 hits in the first inning. However, after that, they were inconsistent at best. There were a couple of times where Kershaw worked out of jams, but the CPU's overall ineptitude with RISP is beyond annoying. :/ Then again, I wasn't much better, as my offense was pretty anemic throughout the entire game. Turner, Seager, and Betts are all in horrible cold streaks. Bellinger and Muncy are currently carrying my offense, but both had off games. Luckily, role players like Taylor, Beaty, and even the rookie Lux stepped up this game to keep things interesting. I just couldn't get the hit I needed to pull ahead in this one.

In reviewing the CPU hits in the replay vault. All looked okay in that respect, which I guess is a good thing. But, something that remains a glaring issue is their inconsistency. I just haven't felt "threatened" in the majority of the games I've played, which is just frustrating. Curious to see what you guys are experiencing in your test games.

Lastly, I've tested the Stamina/Manager Hook sliders that @thekid24 suggested, and the Manager Hook reared its ugly head two games in a row. The first game of the Pirates series (which I won 5-1), they pulled their starter in the 5th inning for literally NO REASON. At that point, they were only losing 2-1, and at the time they pulled the pitcher, MY PITCHER WAS UP TO BAT. It didn't have anything to do with a matchup, and the situation didn't dictate him being pulled either. Coincidentally, I ended up putting up three runs against the reliever who replaced him, resulting in the final score of 5-1. This second game, the Pirates were winning 2-1 in the heading into the sixth inning. To my surprise, I saw them warming up two relievers in the 'pen. Didn't make much sense to me, since the starter was pretty much cruising through my lineup. Wasn't DOMINATING, by any stretch, but he definitely had me off-balance, relatively low pitch count, and I wasn't really mounting much offense. When he came up to bat in the top of the 6th, they let him bat, and I thought, "Cool. They're keeping him in." Then, they brought the reliever in in the bottom of the 6th. The switch literally made NO SENSE at all. In real life, there's no way that would happen to a pitcher who wasn't on a pitch count, or who wasn't injured.

That's enough of that nonsense. I'm moving Manager Hook back to 4. The horrible decision-making by the CPU is squarely because of the Manager Hook slider, and it's obvious those head-scratching decisions affect starters more than relievers. I can't live with those types of decisions over the course of a full season, though. I can get down with the theory that the Stamina Sliders affect the way the CPU manages the bullpen, and I'll continue testing that. But having the Manager Hook that high does not factor into that equation, in my opinion.

I doubt I'll test anymore today. Kinda need to step away from the game for awhile.

[tonyfire2001]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Ok I am try a new tactic...instead of locking in to a franchise and running with it I am playing every team. Start with opening day as home team then next day as visitors, so on and so forth until the sliders are locked in...by the way I am using 2020 Ridin + Roster Resource 8.5 by mkharsh33, I really like these rosters...

Game 1 (cpu) Tigers 4 Vs (me) Indians 8
Boyd vs Bieber

34 ab
7 hits
2 BB
11 k
2 HR
124 pitches 23 fouled

Tigers jumped out to a early 4 nothing lead, but as you see they are the tigers they couldn’t hold the lead very long..

Game 2 (cpu) Nationals 2 vs (me)Mets 1
Scherzer vs DeGrom

33 ab
4 H
1 BB
14 K
2 Doubles
1 Hr
121 pitches 17 fouled

This felt like a battle of Aces...back and for no offense for both sides...definitely a throw back game from the 80’s and 90’s...

Next game will be...
Royals vs white sox and cubs vs Brewers..

[itbeme23]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Ok I am try a new tactic...instead of locking in to a franchise and running with it I am playing every team. Start with opening day as home team then next day as visitors, so on and so forth until the sliders are locked in...by the way I am using 2020 Ridin + Roster Resource 8.5 by mkharsh33, I really like these rosters...

Game 1 (cpu) Tigers 4 Vs (me) Indians 8
Boyd vs Bieber

34 ab
7 hits
2 BB
11 k
2 HR
124 pitches 23 fouled

Tigers jumped out to a early 4 nothing lead, but as you see they are the tigers they couldn’t hold the lead very long..

Game 2 (cpu) Nationals 2 vs (me)Mets 1
Scherzer vs DeGrom

33 ab
4 H
1 BB
14 K
2 Doubles
1 Hr
121 pitches 17 fouled

This felt like a battle of Aces...back and for no offense for both sides...definitely a throw back game from the 80’s and 90’s...

Next game will be...
Royals vs white sox and cubs vs Brewers..

Tony,

This is the approach I took when I originally finalized the set. I played the first three days of the season. Different teams, different pitching staffs. That's why the stats were so solid. However, you have to think about the fact that we play a franchise with ONE team, not 30. And when you narrow down to just one user team, then you start to have a different experience on a per-game basis. That's why I was saying that adjustments to the sliders (CPU hitting, specifically) might be needed to accommodate for weaker/stronger pitching staffs.

However, it seems like the lack of CPU offense is a trend that a lot of guys are experiencing, which is why I'm re-testing different slider combos.

Bottom line: I like we're your head's at as far as using different teams for a wide-ranging sample, but I've already crossed that bridge, and I don't think it's going to get us the data we're looking for.

[lere2001]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

I'm going to test now. Using your hitting sliders with only these adjustments to the pitcher side of the game:

HUM/CPU Starter Stamina: 6
Manager Hook 4
HOWEVER, I raise Manager Hook to 8 once the starter is out of the game

[lere2001]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Game 1:

HUM: 6 11 0 (1 but errors arent counted properly)
CPU: 5 9 0

CPU Offense:
1B: 6
2B: 2
3B: 0
HR: 1

Batting Average: 9/35 (.257)
Walks: 1
Strikeouts: 11

HUM Offense:
1B: 7
2B: 1
3B: 0
HR: 3

Batting Average: 11/36 (.306)
Walks: 2
Strikeouts: 7

Notes:
I am a big time power team. I am also facing one of the ALs best offenses.
Two deflected hits (one from each side). One made diving play.

[lere2001]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Game 2:

HUM: 1 9 2
CPU: 7 9 1

CPU Offense:
1B: 8
2B: 0
3B: 0
HR: 1

Batting Average: 9/33 (.273)
Walks: 2
Strikeouts: 6

HUM Offense:
1B: 6
2B: 2
3B: 0
HR: 1

Batting Average: 9/35 (.257)
Walks: 0
Strikeouts: 5

Notes:
Yikes

[The_Gryphon75]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

I noticed a certain wrong in the era calculating after a match.
ERA is calculated with formula 9*(ER/IP), it's right ?
So if I Pitch 0.2 inning with 2 ER, the sum for ERA will be 90.00 ? Not 27.00, right ?
Or I'm wrong ?