itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Sliders

[The_Gryphon75]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Yes, in fact I don't use the Pitching Meter since he understood the difference between the various kinds of Pitch
Okay, thanks for the reply

[tonyfire2001]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Thanks, Tony!

Just to confirm, you’re using the settings in my last post, right? Just wanna make sure we’re on the same page. I don’t want to update the OP with anything I’m testing, because from most accounts, it seems like people are getting good results from the set in the OP.

Those stats where from the opening post sliders...tonight I will plug in what your test and play games the rest of the opening weekend series vs Rangers.

[ninertravel]

Re: itbeme23 MLB The Show 20 "A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sliders

That's an interesting approach, for sure.

In my experience, it hasn't been an issue with pitcher "stamina", per se. When I think of "stamina" issues, I think of pitchers either not tiring when they should, or tiring too fast. The issue, in my opinion, has more to do with the manager pulling the pitcher too quickly based on the situation, rather than allowing the pitcher to work out of a jam.

I think the CPU pitcher is pulled early more based on performance (strikes/ball ratio). The more a pitcher struggles (i.e. more hits/walks allowed), the more inclined the CPU manager will be to pull him. In the approach above, a higher Manager Hook would (in theory), cause the CPU Manager to have a quicker trigger finger, as that is what the slider is intended to do.

I'm planning to do a few test games with an increase in Strike Frequency to see if my hunch is true. A higher strike frequency should lead to lower pitch counts, which in turn, should lead to longer outings by the CPU starter. But, it may be a trade off situation, because if the increase to the Strike Frequency slider throws the first pitch/overall strike percentages severely out of whack, then it'll end up being a wash.

I find the BP management of the CPU pathetic, no matter what sliders sets people have with the stamina. if a starter is pulled before the 5th innings no matter what the situation is or how tired the LR is the CPU will ALWAYS choose the LR before the 5th innings. even if they pitched 4 innings the day before. it is frustrating. and now with the 3 batter min rule if you forget to control the CPU BP yourself your forced to have them in there and you know it's easy to come back against them.

they also NEVER use the setup guys unless they have a 1 or 2 run lead. and always use the closer in a save opportunity regardless how tired the closer has been worked.

I find I manage the CPU BP myself when I can by putting the manager hook to 0 and making the choices myself because no matter what I try the CPU BP management never will be right.

if the score if 5-5 the CPU will leave the starter in because it is a tied game.. if the score is 5-0 they will hook the starter after 4 innings even if PC is at 60. if they are up 5-0 they will leave the starter in for 9 innings even if PC is over 100. it's all today do with the score of the game.

People talk about the comeback code. there is no come back code it's because of the dumb CPU BP management. it's what ruins the stats and inflates them. trust me control the CPU BP as though you were managing them yourself if you can it's more fun.

btw glad to see you are back I used to use your sliders before and found they are the best as far as strikeouts go and stats! I always get the best stats

[itbeme23]

Re: itbeme23 MLB The Show 20 "A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sliders

I find the BP management of the CPU pathetic, no matter what sliders sets people have with the stamina. if a starter is pulled before the 5th innings no matter what the situation is or how tired the LR is the CPU will ALWAYS choose the LR before the 5th innings. even if they pitched 4 innings the day before. it is frustrating. and now with the 3 batter min rule if you forget to control the CPU BP yourself your forced to have them in there and you know it's easy to come back against them.

they also NEVER use the setup guys unless they have a 1 or 2 run lead. and always use the closer in a save opportunity regardless how tired the closer has been worked.

I find I manage the CPU BP myself when I can by putting the manager hook to 0 and making the choices myself because no matter what I try the CPU BP management never will be right.

if the score if 5-5 the CPU will leave the starter in because it is a tied game.. if the score is 5-0 they will hook the starter after 4 innings even if PC is at 60. if they are up 5-0 they will leave the starter in for 9 innings even if PC is over 100. it's all today do with the score of the game.

People talk about the comeback code. there is no come back code it's because of the dumb CPU BP management. it's what ruins the stats and inflates them. trust me control the CPU BP as though you were managing them yourself if you can it's more fun.

btw glad to see you are back I used to use your sliders before and found they are the best as far as strikeouts go and stats! I always get the best stats

Interesting observations. I guess I should backtrack a bit and say that I find the CPU bullpen management okay, as it pertains to stamina/Manager Hook/matchups. For example, now that I've increased the CPU Strike Frequency, I've seen generally longer outings by CPU starters. As far as relievers go, I don't see CPU managers leaving them in longer than they should, and generally speaking, they'll make smart decisions as far as playing the matchups (lefties on lefties, etc.).

NOW...what you're referring to, although I can't say I've thoroughly tested it myself, I can definitely see where you're coming from. For example, in my series against the Cards, Carlos Martinez went down with a minor injury in game one, bringing in the long reliever, Ponce de Leon. In game two, I tagged Dakota Hudson for seven runs in the first two innings, and guess who they brought in? Ponce de Leon. At the time, I thought it was a curious choice, especially after he worked two or three innings in the previous game. But now, after reading your post, it makes sense.

In my opinion, that's a coding issue. In my experience working with sliders, there isn't as combo in the world that's going to correct the CPU manager's logic when it comes to bullpen management. Unless you take control of the CPU bullpen, I don't think that issue will be rectified. Personally, it's not something I'm really interested in doing, as I want to just concentrate and enjoy my Dodgers franchise, without having to worry about what the CPU is doing, especially when it goes as far as taking control of their bullpen. That's just a bit too much work for me, after playing over 60 test games.

My goals are to get realistic stats in the meaningful areas of the game, which I think we can achieve with the sliders. There are always going to be head-scratching areas, some more bothersome than others, but I think that's part of the trade off when you're relying on AI to make human decisions (i.e. bullpen management).

[itbeme23]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Mini-update on my CPU hitting sliders test:

Good news:

- The drop in Foul Frequency balances out nicely with the increase to Contact. CPU K rates are now back in realistic ranges, as well as foul ball strike percentages. The foul balls may still be a TAD bit high, but again, we're dealing in trade offs here. I reviewed some of my numbers from my early testing (shortly after release), and I know if I increase CPU Contact back to default, it'll throw the offensive numbers way out of balance, and that's just not something I'm willing to do.

Not so good news:

In the six games running this test, I haven't seen the consistency I was hoping for. I was encouraged by the first two games, as the CPU put up some good offensive numbers, but I think that was more of a placebo effect than anything else, because my previous games had been so stale. Over the past three games, it's been a return back to similar games as before running the test. The CPU is averaging a little over 7 hits per game, and while my ERA has increased a bit, it's been mostly inflated by my relievers, rather than the starters.

What the tells me:

- Maybe the Dodgers pitching staff is just THAT good. I mean, there's a reason why they won 106 games last year (DO NOT talk to me about that Washington series...LOL), and there's a reason why most baseball experts were calling them the most complete team in baseball before the start of this season (btw, f the Coronavirus). So...as much as I hate to be "that" slider guy who complicates things, I may have a separate set for those of us who are using teams with superior pitching staffs.

Unless y'all are seeing similar results (as far as stale CPU offense), I don't believe I should change the set from the way it's originally posted. I'm a firm believer in acting based on RULES, rather than EXCEPTIONS. In this case, I think my experience is the exception, and I don't think it's fair to disrupt the good experiences you guys may be having with the set, just because I'm not getting the same. I'm a pretty good player, but I know my skills aren't elite (especially since we're using the ratings-based interfaces). So again, maybe it's just that the Dodgers pitching staff is that good, and I need to modify some sliders to balance that out. While I am enjoying my franchise so far, I know for sure I will need to make changes, because these games are way too one-sided for the long haul.

Just wanted to let you guys know where I'm coming from on that.

Last thing:

What are you guys thinking about errors? You guys can check the OP for the explanation of my approach on the error sliders. Long story, short...I wanted there to be at least the POSSIBILITY of errors, even if they didn't show up in the linescore. What that equates to in-game is bobbles vs. cleanly fielded balls. However, in the past few games, I've seen some bobbles that just shouldn't happen. I'm talking about slow rollers or routine ground balls that you would see even an AVERAGE MLB infielder make 99.8% of the time. On top of that, I've noticed that fielders who dive for balls don't actually make the play a lot of the time. I believe this is also tied to the error sliders, since there isn't any other sliders that really affect fielding ability other than IF reaction or OF speed.

Curious to see what you've experienced with errors? Do you think they need to come down to default? I'm specifically referring to FIELDING errors, as I don't think that the throwing errors are an issue. If anything, I'd consider INCREASING Throwing errors if we decided to decrease fielding errors.

Let me know!!!

[tonyfire2001]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Alright I did the test sliders even did 5 for the foul frequency

Had only 17 foul balls all game.

No offense to report rangers only got 2 hits,
Chris Archer was off the hook good this game.
7.1 Ip 13 k 2 BB

Rating: 81 K/9

Taylor Williams
1.2 Ip 2 k 0 BB


For those that I loaded the M’s with mass trades I did not, I made a few trades that I thought that were fair and guys that cost low and have control for years to build.

Team looks like this: (Ovl)
Sp (23 Rk)
Andrew Heaney (81)
Chris Archer (79)
Marco Gonzales (79)
Justus Sheffield (71)
Aaron Sanchez (70)

RP (18 Rk)
Hector Neris (82) closer
Diego Castillo (77)
Carl Edwards Jr. (77)
Taylor Williams (72)
Jose Urena (72)
Dan Attavilla (71)
Anthony Banda (66)

C (3 Rk)
Salvador Perez (85)
Austin Nola (75)

1b (23 Rk)
Daniel Vogelbach (76)
Patrick Wisdom (69)

2b (28 Rk)
Tim Lopes (72)
Shed Long (68)

3b (23 Rk)
Maikel Franco (77)
Dylan Moore (72)

SS (30 Rk)
J.P. Crawford

Lf (15 Rk)
Joc Peterson (83)
Kyle Lewis (69)

Cf (27 Rk)
Braden Bishop (70)
Jake Fraley (65)

Rf (9 Rk)
Mitch Haniger (82)

I hope this gives you some context on what I am playing with...game 3 is next, Andrew Heaney is pitching.

[ninertravel]

Re: itbeme23 MLB The Show 20 "A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sliders

Interesting observations. I guess I should backtrack a bit and say that I find the CPU bullpen management okay, as it pertains to stamina/Manager Hook/matchups. For example, now that I've increased the CPU Strike Frequency, I've seen generally longer outings by CPU starters. As far as relievers go, I don't see CPU managers leaving them in longer than they should, and generally speaking, they'll make smart decisions as far as playing the matchups (lefties on lefties, etc.).

NOW...what you're referring to, although I can't say I've thoroughly tested it myself, I can definitely see where you're coming from. For example, in my series against the Cards, Carlos Martinez went down with a minor injury in game one, bringing in the long reliever, Ponce de Leon. In game two, I tagged Dakota Hudson for seven runs in the first two innings, and guess who they brought in? Ponce de Leon. At the time, I thought it was a curious choice, especially after he worked two or three innings in the previous game. But now, after reading your post, it makes sense.

In my opinion, that's a coding issue. In my experience working with sliders, there isn't as combo in the world that's going to correct the CPU manager's logic when it comes to bullpen management. Unless you take control of the CPU bullpen, I don't think that issue will be rectified. Personally, it's not something I'm really interested in doing, as I want to just concentrate and enjoy my Dodgers franchise, without having to worry about what the CPU is doing, especially when it goes as far as taking control of their bullpen. That's just a bit too much work for me, after playing over 60 test games.

My goals are to get realistic stats in the meaningful areas of the game, which I think we can achieve with the sliders. There are always going to be head-scratching areas, some more bothersome than others, but I think that's part of the trade off when you're relying on AI to make human decisions (i.e. bullpen management).

I actually think the cpu goes by the stamina rating in your bp rather they the LR slot so even if you have them in
The middle reliever slot the cpu will take the best stamina rating pitcher in before the 5th so slot of starters turned bp guys are a issue.

[tonyfire2001]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Well game 3 was an exciting one. The Baby M’s continue their winning ways against the rangers, this time in a 11 inning walkoff 3 run home run from Salvador Perez. Mariners win again 7-4.

Rangers 4 8 0
Mariners 7 8 1

Rangers
2B: Santana (1), Frazier (1), Odor (2)
HR: Santana (1), Solak (1)

Mariners pitching
Heaney 5.0 Ip 4 BB 6 K
Urena 1.2 Ip 0 BB 1 K
Banda 0.1 Ip 1 BB 0 K
Castillo 1.2 IP 1 BB 3 K
Attavilla 1.1 Ip 0 BB 2 K
Edwards Jr. 1.0 Ip 0 BB 1 K

Rangers had 41 foul out of 202 pitches, 20%

[lere2001]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

I'm going to keep testing tonight but I'm not co evinced the CPU offense has enough teeth yet. They definitely can score in spurts but never feel consistently dangerous. I will keep testing though.

As far as errors go, I agree. Errors were killing this game for me so I've gone down to 5 for everything except for infield throwing errors. I am still seeing errors happen though

[lere2001]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Well, the CPU showed me up in the first game haha. They put up 7 runs in a crooked game and I lost 7-2.

Still had a realistic looking bad throw on a potential double play by the cpu, had a couple Jeter throws, but overall fielding still looks solid. Going to keep going

Edit: won 4-3 in my second game. No home runs for either team. CPU was definitely threatening. I got the save with bases loaded. I think for my skill level, this is looking like it's a pretty cool slider set for me. I'm still going with 4/4 fielder reaction and speed and I have OF arm at 7. Those are the only differences I have from your test set right now

Edit 2: I played two more games and am done for the night. Played a 6-5 loss and a 7-2 win as well as the games above. Very fun games with lots of diversity thus far.

[The_Gryphon75]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Today I am in one of those days when it is better not to play so I would not get anything.
A curiosity.
When I use Classing Pitching, should I influence the pitch of the pitcher with the directional pad keys or not?
Or is it better to just pitch without putting any direction?
I know that an experienced player would answer me that it depends on the case, the pitch, the hitter at bat.
But on average, even for those who do not have such a great experience, would it be better to just make only a pitch or even steer it ?

One thing that often happens to me is when CPU make a line drive in outfield. I play with Catch Position Indicator on on (a minimum of tolerance should be for those who are not profoundly familiar with the game), so with the outsiders I can almost always position myself in order to perform fly out. The game automatically starts the outsiders towards the launch direction and I then continue to run them at the indicated point. Sometimes, however, it happens that even if I bring my oufireld right on the catch point, the same doesn't go to position by dropping the ball and this creates me real unwanted errors with consequent gift of doubles to the batter. Not a very pleasant thing. I still haven't figured out if it depends on some game bug or me that I still haven't understood (after 8 years) how to position the player ...

I forgot, these are my options in the gameplay

Throwing Interface ----------------> Pure Analog
Throwing Meter --------------------> Off
Fielding Decision -------------------> Assist
Throwing Decision ----------------> Off
Throw Cancelling -----------------> On
One Button Dive/Jump ----------> Off
Auto INF Jump Reaction ---------> On
Auto OF Dive Reaction -----------> On
Catch Position Indicator ----------> On
Defensive Shift --------------------> Auto
Off The Wall Ribbon ----------------> On

[tonyfire2001]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Today I am in one of those days when it is better not to play so I would not get anything.
A curiosity.
When I use Classing Pitching, should I influence the pitch of the pitcher with the directional pad keys or not?
Or is it better to just pitch without putting any direction?
I know that an experienced player would answer me that it depends on the case, the pitch, the hitter at bat.
But on average, even for those who do not have such a great experience, would it be better to just make only a pitch or even steer it ?

One thing that often happens to me is when CPU make a line drive in outfield. I play with Catch Position Indicator on on (a minimum of tolerance should be for those who are not profoundly familiar with the game), so with the outsiders I can almost always position myself in order to perform fly out. The game automatically starts the outsiders towards the launch direction and I then continue to run them at the indicated point. Sometimes, however, it happens that even if I bring my oufireld right on the catch point, the same doesn't go to position by dropping the ball and this creates me real unwanted errors with consequent gift of doubles to the batter. Not a very pleasant thing. I still haven't figured out if it depends on some game bug or me that I still haven't understood (after 8 years) how to position the player ...

I forgot, these are my options in the gameplay

Throwing Interface ----------------> Pure Analog
Throwing Meter --------------------> Off
Fielding Decision -------------------> Assist
Throwing Decision ----------------> Off
Throw Cancelling -----------------> On
One Button Dive/Jump ----------> Off
Auto INF Jump Reaction ---------> On
Auto OF Dive Reaction -----------> On
Catch Position Indicator ----------> On
Defensive Shift --------------------> Auto
Off The Wall Ribbon ----------------> On

Here is my recommendation, when it comes to classic pitching there is no influence except for how hard or soft the ball is thrown.

If you tap the button that is a soft throw, if you hold the button down through the pitchers windup that is a harder throw. A fastball will go smooth and straight on a tap, but held down the fastball will raise and less accuracy..for a curve ball or slider with a tap the ball comes out slower and more break, harder the throw the less accuracy and harder the break.

That is the only influence that we have..

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...ad-2015-a.html

Go here they help you a lot about classic pitching.


The other recommendation I have is try the auto fielding with clean screen,

I wasn’t believer in that also until 2 years ago now I won’t go back, I just see so many different animations on defense from it and I immerse myself even more thinking I’m the manager in the dugout watching what is happening to my team out on the field, I do still control where the ball goes on throwing but fielding wise I won’t go back until the show forces me.

[The_Gryphon75]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Here is my recommendation, when it comes to classic pitching there is no influence except for how hard or soft the ball is thrown.

If you tap the button that is a soft throw, if you hold the button down through the pitchers windup that is a harder throw. A fastball will go smooth and straight on a tap, but held down the fastball will raise and less accuracy..for a curve ball or slider with a tap the ball comes out slower and more break, harder the throw the less accuracy and harder the break.

That is the only influence that we have..

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...ad-2015-a.html

Go here they help you a lot about classic pitching.


The other recommendation I have is try the auto fielding with clean screen,

I wasn’t believer in that also until 2 years ago now I won’t go back, I just see so many different animations on defense from it and I immerse myself even more thinking I’m the manager in the dugout watching what is happening to my team out on the field, I do still control where the ball goes on throwing but fielding wise I won’t go back until the show forces me.

I thank you very much for the quick explanation you gave me.
I'm going to read the discussion you posted to me for further help.
I had sensed something while playing but I had no mathematical certainty. Now that I know, I will also approach the game better.
So you suggest me to put Fielding Decision in Auto and not in assist?
But in doing so, the game doesn't become too "automatic" and takes away a lot of space from the player too invasively?
Thank you very much

[The Kid 24]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

Back to the bullpen talk.... Just wanted to post this, what I read in a different thread.


I've done a lot of testing on this issue in the past via sliders, and I've managed to find a solution that works... mostly. There was no combination of sliders that completely solved CPU bullpen management to my satisfaction, but I was able to close the gap significantly.

My testing showed that the CPU cared way too much about maintaining the effectiveness of their bullpen, so much so that they would rather trot out someone who is tired already and protect the rest of their bullpen then try and go for the win in a close game. By raising reliever stamina, I also raised the total effective pitches in the CPU bullpen, making the CPU manager less concerned about that factor and more concerned about the situation.

I combined that change with raising the CPU manager hook, which again made the situation a larger factor. I currently play with all pitcher staminas at 7 and CPU manager hook at 6. The goal is for pitchers to start loosing effectiveness when their pitch count hits the same number as their stamina attribute, and for the most part that holds true at these settings.

It's not perfect for every game, but most games the CPU mirrors what I would do in those situations.

[tonyfire2001]

Re: itbeme23 The Show 20 "The Stats Approach" A.S. Directional/HOF Classic Sim Slider

I thank you very much for the quick explanation you gave me.
I'm going to read the discussion you posted to me for further help.
I had sensed something while playing but I had no mathematical certainty. Now that I know, I will also approach the game better.
So you suggest me to put Fielding Decision in Auto and not in assist?
But in doing so, the game doesn't become too "automatic" and takes away a lot of space from the player too invasively?
Thank you very much

It’s all about you personally for it...it allows for the ratings of the different shine...you will be seeing the speed and defense shine from the gold glovers, compared to some one you just called up from the minors...I couldn’t tell you how many times the glove of andleron Simmons (angles ss) have saved runs for me deep in the hole...or watching Trout fly through the Cf running down the ball...

I just say give it a try for a series 3 games or more and if you don’t like it go back...but it makes you think when building a team instead of going all offense, it makes you think should a get defense bench players or start that weak hitting Ss or Cf just cause he is going to say me runs...

Just food for thought...