Why did they take out zone hitting?

[bsb13]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

I would agree that timing is the most important aspect to hitting but I think hand-eye coordination plays a big role too. I dont really care for for all these swing stick systems in baseball games these days because too much depends on timing and not enough on hand-eye cooridnation IMO. I like to really have to keep my eye on the ball when hitting in a game. With the swing stick though, I feel like all I have to do is recognize the pitch type and then I can just fire away without having to really watch the ball all the way as it meets the bat.

[sask3m]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

it does still involve hand eye coordination though.

[SgtDillznick]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

you'll also have a much easier time hitting a flyball on a low pitch with Giambi, than say Figgins. That's where IE comes in.

Ahh, now that sounds very promising. I feel that alot of games have gone about creating a hitter's attributes all wrong. I thought MLB Power Pros and Pro Yakyu Spirits did this the best. Players had a contact and power rating, but then they also had swing trajectory ratings. The ratings helped separate guys like Ortiz and Giambi (in his prime); in other words, they separated big lefites with enormous power and huge, uppercutting, pull swings from guys like Manny Ramirez and Michael Young who have great power, but very level swings that drive the ball all over the ball park. This trajectory attribute helps separate huge HR power hitters from the guys who have power and high slugging, but they don't necessarily hit 50 HR a year.

The way Kush makes it sound, it seems like IE helps alot in distinguishing the different types of swings that MLB players have.

The way the hitting system is described, it seems very similar to MVP NCAA 06 and 07's load-and-fire hitting system without the added ability to hold L for a power swing and R for a contact swing. It seems as if IE controls the type of swing made by the player based on his overall makeup. Correct me if I am wrong, please.

[StormJH1]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

Here's what testing has to do with the swing stick:

Tester: Hey, in your new swing stick hitting, it's impossible to check my swing. I couldn't deal with that so I switched it over to "classic controls." After I did that I realized you can't check your swing either.

2k: Oh. And other than that, is everything OK?

Tester: No. Besides not being able to check my swing in either mode, I realized nothing more than timing is required to hit the ball. Isn't what seperates players hitting skills the ability to aim the bat in the proper place?

And here's what my post had to do with zone:

Me: It requires a little more skill to locate AND time rather than just pushing the stick at the appropriate time.

Thank you. I'm baffled that people aren't bothered by this. There used to be a feature in Hardball 5 for the PC where you could make it so that every pitch from the opposing pitcher went down the middle of the plate. The result was that all you had to do was time your swing properly, and the batter would make contact. Tell me how the interface for hitting in MLB 2k7 has evolved in any way from the garbage gameplay I described above...

After playing The Show for 2 years on PS2, I feel like I've been demoted to form of hitting where I have no impact on success or failure. The idea that big league hitters "just swing", and don't have to adjust their swing up, down, inside, or outside is ludicrous. MLB 2k7 is probably the first game where I'd rather be pitching instead of hitting, since I at least have control over pitching.

[drterb]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

Kush,

One of my biggest gripes with last years game was the lack of step influence. When I played against someone online, they would load up their step before I even started my pitching motion. They were still able to hit as well as performing a perfectly timed step. Has this been addressed with the new Swing Stick??

[KushGamer]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

Kush,

One of my biggest gripes with last years game was the lack of step influence. When I played against someone online, they would load up their step before I even started my pitching motion. They were still able to hit as well as performing a perfectly timed step. Has this been addressed with the new Swing Stick??

Yeah, i had a few complaints that the step plays too big a role in 2K8. I think its currently 25% of your swing score. There is a slider to adjust that value though.

[CMH]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

KushGamer said exactly what I posted a few weeks ago in regards to hitting.

It's exactly why I thought cursor-based systems were dumb and why I have no problem with a time-based system that is done right.

MLB hitters do not swing in the wrong direction of a pitch. It doesn't happen, ever - unless the guy just closed his eyes and swung wildly and chances are that player would be released.

Zone-hitting is fine by me because it didn't prevent a user from making contact if they swung in the wrong direction. It only created a weaker hit. And I like that.

However, hitters don't swing toward the outside corner on an inside pitch. And with zone-hitting, this was very possible if the user made a mistake.

Seems like MLB2k8 is going with a realistic model for hitting. I'm actually surprised that the people that claim to play baseball don't realize how important timing is and that they don't think about where they swing. They do it automatically.

[PVarck31]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

KushGamer said exactly what I posted a few weeks ago in regards to hitting.

It's exactly why I thought cursor-based systems were dumb and why I have no problem with a time-based system that is done right.

MLB hitters do not swing in the wrong direction of a pitch. It doesn't happen, ever - unless the guy just closed his eyes and swung wildly and chances are that player would be released.

Zone-hitting is fine by me because it didn't prevent a user from making contact if they swung in the wrong direction. It only created a weaker hit. And I like that.

However, hitters don't swing toward the outside corner on an inside pitch. And with zone-hitting, this was very possible if the user made a mistake.

Seems like MLB2k8 is going with a realistic model for hitting. I'm actually surprised that the people that claim to play baseball don't realize how important timing is and that they don't think about where they swing. They do it automatically.

Good post. I agree. Makes me want this game even more now.

[mjb2124]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

They still had it in for 2K5, and it was still appropriate as ever.

I stand corrected. Was 2K5 the true aim hitting system (ie: 360 degree)? That's the one I'm thinking of. I might have my years wrong.

[bsb13]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

it does still involve hand eye coordination though.

Yeah but it doesnt play a big enough role IMO. It seems like with a swing stick type of system, if your timing is decent and the ball is in the strike zone, you will make contact every single time. There is such a thing as a batter timing a ball in the strike zone decent but still missing because he swung above or under the pitch.

[drterb]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

Yeah, i had a few complaints that the step plays too big a role in 2K8. I think its currently 25% of your swing score. There is a slider to adjust that value though.

As it should!! For a hitting system that is based heavily on timing, it's logical that 25% of the effectiveness would be attributed to the step timing.

Good to know there's a slider to tweak it too.

[JT30]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

KushGamer said exactly what I posted a few weeks ago in regards to hitting.

It's exactly why I thought cursor-based systems were dumb and why I have no problem with a time-based system that is done right.

MLB hitters do not swing in the wrong direction of a pitch. It doesn't happen, ever - unless the guy just closed his eyes and swung wildly and chances are that player would be released.

Zone-hitting is fine by me because it didn't prevent a user from making contact if they swung in the wrong direction. It only created a weaker hit. And I like that.

However, hitters don't swing toward the outside corner on an inside pitch. And with zone-hitting, this was very possible if the user made a mistake.

Seems like MLB2k8 is going with a realistic model for hitting. I'm actually surprised that the people that claim to play baseball don't realize how important timing is and that they don't think about where they swing. They do it automatically.

I dont think it's that people don't understand timing in baseball... timing in a video game is quite a bit easier than timing your swing in real life. I think the idea of zone hitting or cursor based was used to help simulate a real life baseball swing. Of course, its timing and reaction in real life and you dont actually "aim" your swing... but because a button press to make contact is quite a bit easier than actually swinging in real life to make contact, developers actually "broke down" the actual real life swing by incorporating an "aiming" or "zoning" factor.

[El_MaYiMbE]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

KushGamer said exactly what I posted a few weeks ago in regards to hitting.

It's exactly why I thought cursor-based systems were dumb and why I have no problem with a time-based system that is done right.

MLB hitters do not swing in the wrong direction of a pitch. It doesn't happen, ever - unless the guy just closed his eyes and swung wildly and chances are that player would be released.

Zone-hitting is fine by me because it didn't prevent a user from making contact if they swung in the wrong direction. It only created a weaker hit. And I like that.

However, hitters don't swing toward the outside corner on an inside pitch. And with zone-hitting, this was very possible if the user made a mistake.

Seems like MLB2k8 is going with a realistic model for hitting. I'm actually surprised that the people that claim to play baseball don't realize how important timing is and that they don't think about where they swing. They do it automatically.

I have said this at least 1909909947847874874 times....and posted a long thing bout this about a week ago....i feel exactly the same

[CMH]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

Yeah but it doesnt play a big enough role IMO. It seems like with a swing stick type of system, if your timing is decent and the ball is in the strike zone, you will make contact every single time. There is such a thing as a batter timing a ball in the strike zone decent but still missing because he swung above or under the pitch.

This I think is a delicate topic that will never satisfy anyone.

Zone-hitting also doesn't solve this problem as zone-hitting is 9-dimensional.

I'm sure you will agree that when a hitter swings above or below a pitch he misses by inches. 9-dimensions are too drastic of a difference. If we had maybe 18 or 27 then I think we'd be getting somewhere.

So this is why it's delicate.

The only other way to simulate this is through ratings. Does Giambi's ratings and IE say that he is likely to swing over the top of a curveball on a 1-2 count? Now ratings kick in and results in user missing the pitch that is still timed pretty well - at least one can hope that's how it is done.

Obviously, there will be a side that will say that they don't like this. "I want control." And I understand that.

I personally think that ratings should be responsible for up/under swings in order to separate players. If you give the user too much control then every player is the same. There is no difference between Giambi and Chone Figgins.

That's why I like the trajectory rating that is not user-controlled. Now, you won't be able to make Figgins a homerun hitter if he isn't one.

Wasn't the general problem with hitting that guys that shouldn't hit homeruns were hitting them? Seems lke that problem may be solved.

But again, very delicate issue and I understand why someone would want that control. I just personally believe that the more you want something the sim the more control you have to take away from the user. It's the nature of the beast.

[CMH]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

I have said this at least 1909909947847874874 times....and posted a long thing bout this about a week ago....i feel exactly the same

You and I have discussed this many times before. I know.