Why did they take out zone hitting?

[CMH]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

edit: to yankeepride....if u don't think MLB players miss COMPLETELY on pitches even when timing was perfec...please watch ryan howard( MVP player we're talking here) play against lefthanders who throws him a a slider on the outside. MLB players ABSOLUTELY miss location on pitches, and sometimes by ALOT....

When did I say hitters don't completely miss?

[CMH]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

The argument for zone hitting versus timing with only player ratings influencing hit-type, doesn't get any simpler than that statement by Blzer.

The difference isn't that great. The only difference is user-input. We've already been through the difference in what people want.

If you prefer that all swings are a result of the user's decision then fine. I'm more comfortable knowing that an individual player's ratings will determine what a hitter does with his swing.

[CMH]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

My major flaw with a timing only system is that it won't take into account the situation...

This goes into making the system deeper and I agree with you.

But this is why I believe in IE - if it's done right.

An IE that's done right will also look at Pujol's numbers in all situations and allow the rating in which he tries to drive the ball down or up to reflect his percentages.

I don't know if this is taken into account. But it should be.

Regardless, you can always do what real MLB hitters do. Wait for a pitch that allows them to hit it toward a certain spot. If you want Pujols to try to drive that ball down then wait for a low and outside pitch and swing at it. If IE is done right (one can hope so) then you aren't playing at 33% odds. You'll be playing at those 80% odds that suggest Pujols drives the ball down when swinging at a pitch low and away.

[phillyfan23]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

Well this game ignores things like bat speed, a good eye, being able to pick up the pitch, and the fact that the pitcher is throwing the same pitch every time. It is completely different, and you know it.

2k's system isn't all timing based. It takes everything into account. It's just that you handle the timing, and the game handles the rest. Really, if they did it a different way, there would be hoards of people on here complaining that they hit just as many HR's with Melky Cabrera as with A-Rod. I remember in the old ASB cursor games. I would, no joke, hit .500 with 75 hrs with Chipper Jones, and be over .400 with about 50 hrs with various other players, such as Gallaragga and Brian Jordan. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

And if you still think that mlb is all timing based, play a couple games, then go play Ken Griffey Jr. Baseball (the first one, where all the Angels were golden age actors). Tell me you don't see a difference.

having zone hitting doesn't COMPLETELY leave it up to the user. the "other" game has zone hitting, but ratings are also a big big factor on how players perform. There is a way to incorporate zone hitting while STILL incorporating player ratings significantly into player perfromance.

[CMH]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

having zone hitting doesn't COMPLETELY leave it up to the user. the "other" game has zone hitting, but ratings are also a big big factor on how players perform. There is a way to incorporate zone hitting while STILL incorporating player ratings significantly into player perfromance.

The point however is that if the timing system is done right, what's wrong with it?

MVP was timing only and the only reason why it's hitting system might have sucked was because it also allowed for people to influence hits into the air and ground. So people just pressed up and in and waited inside fastball.

I recall people complaining about a lot of strikeouts when playing MVP. Now all of a sudden everyone is a hitting genie on MVP? Yea.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

This goes into making the system deeper and I agree with you.

But this is why I believe in IE - if it's done right.

An IE that's done right will also look at Pujol's numbers in all situations and allow the rating in which he tries to drive the ball down or up to reflect his percentages.

I don't know if this is taken into account. But it should be.

Regardless, you can always do what real MLB hitters do. Wait for a pitch that allows them to hit it toward a certain spot. If you want Pujols to try to drive that ball down then wait for a low and outside pitch and swing at it. If IE is done right (one can hope so) then you aren't playing at 33% odds. You'll be playing at those 80% odds that suggest Pujols drives the ball down when swinging at a pitch low and away.

I just don't ever think the AI will be smart enough to know what your thinking.

Runner on 3rd-0 or 1 outs top of 1st, this is a Sac Fly situation.
Runner on 3rd-0 or 1 outs, bottom of 9th, down by 2-not a sac fly situation as your now down by 1 with no runners on.

I just don't expect the computer to know when I'm trying to advance a runner with a grounder or trying to hit the ball to gap to score the runner.

Also, I don't buy the wait for a low pitch to hit the ball on the ground. Pujols can drive that pitch over the fence as well as he can slap it through the hole on the right side. He may be more likely to hit the ball on the ground, but your still letting the computer determine the outcome. A ton of good, power hitters can lift low pitches and the good contact hitters who can "handle the bat" can easily get on top of a pitch to put it on the ground.

My bottom line is I want to dictate the outcome. I play video games to have control over the outcome. I would be upset if I wanted to throw a 2-0 curveball, but the computer forced me to throw a fastball. I would be upset if I wanted to hit and run and the computer said that I shouldnt. I would be upset if I timed my swing perfectly, but the computer determined it was my time to swing and miss and I'd be upset if wanted to put the ball on the ground, but the computer thought I should put it in the air.
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I know this argument has been stated before, but why should the pitcher get to control everything and really leave nothing up to stats/ratings, while the hitter is left to the confines of stats. I can throw a 2-0 slider with Rich Harden in a fastball count, but I can't dictate the outcome of my swing to try and put the ball in the air.

So let me ask you this:

Would you be happy with a pitching system where you did nothing but time your pitchers release point? The computer picks the pitch type and location based on stats/situation, and you just execute the pitch? You just press a button to start and finish the motion.

To me this would suck and it's basically what they have done with the hitting system.

[baa7]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

If you prefer that all swings are a result of the user's decision then fine. I'm more comfortable knowing that an individual player's ratings will determine what a hitter does with his swing.

it doesn't work that way in any baseball game, or any sports game for that matter. Players ratings always affect user results to a degree.

I'm trying to hold off judgment until I try it for myself. Who knows? Maybe they've come up with a system that will revolutionize hitting in video baseball. I understand the concept; just not sure it can be implemented without feeling like the game programming is doing most if not all the work, rather than the user.

[CMH]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

it doesn't work that way in any baseball game, or any sports game for that matter. Players ratings always affect user results to a degree.

I'm trying to hold off judgment until I try it for myself. Who knows? Maybe they've come up with a system that will revolutionize hitting in video baseball. I understand the concept; just not sure it can be implemented without feeling like the game programming is doing most if not all the work, rather than the user.

I think, however, that will be the case. But we'll see.

[K_GUN]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

i think they are tapping into IE more this year


2 new ratings....on base via BB & out via K (something to those)

plus KUSH has said GB/FB hitters are affected /reflected too

[baa7]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

Would you be happy with a pitching system where you did nothing but time your pitchers release point? The computer picks the pitch type and location based on stats/situation, and you just execute the pitch? You just press a button to start and finish the motion.

I used that same example and argument today on another thread. I agree: it's comparible to having a pitching system where you don't worry about aiming - just pick a pitch and throw. And nobody would be interested in that of course.

[CMH]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

I just don't ever think the AI will be smart enough to know what your thinking.

It is my concern as well. I am hoping it wouldn't be an issue but I'll agree with you and say that it could be an issue. We'll see what the user can and can't do and know for sure once the demo comes out, right?

Would you be happy with a pitching system where you did nothing but time your pitchers release point? The computer picks the pitch type and location based on stats/situation, and you just execute the pitch? You just press a button to start and finish the motion.

To me this would suck and it's basically what they have done with the hitting system.

I'd be happy with a pitching system similar to the last High Heat developed. You picked a general area to pitch and stats determined pitch location. I loved it.

[baa7]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

plus KUSH has said GB/FB hitters are affected /reflected too

But there's no specific rating for that, which is something I expected with this new system, once I understood how it worked.

[baa7]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

I'd be happy with a pitching system similar to the last High Heat developed. You picked a general area to pitch and stats determined pitch location. I loved it.

Hmm, not a bad comeback! Similar yeah, I agree. I never liked that system BTW Much prefer The Show's classic pitching.

[CMH]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

I used that same example and argument today on another thread. I agree: it's comparible to having a pitching system where you don't worry about aiming - just pick a pitch and throw. And nobody would be interested in that of course.

I get it but I guess I disagree that it's the same.

Pitching isn't as easy as saying I'm gonna hit this spot when I throw the ball.

Not to take anything away from hitting - definitely an incredibly difficult thing to do in real life - but I guess I just happen to believe that there's a stronger likelihood of making contact with a bat then there is in hitting a spot perfectly with a pitch.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

I'd be happy with a pitching system similar to the last High Heat developed. You picked a general area to pitch and stats determined pitch location. I loved it.

But you'd at least have influence on the pitch type and location. I think if you made a comperable pitching system to a timing only hitting system in which the outcome of the hits was based on stats, you would only execute the pitch. The pitch type and location would be based on stats. You might want to throw an 0-2 fastball inside, but the pitchers stats would determine you should throw an 0-2 slider away.

I think this would be a fair comparison to a hitter who wanted to choke up and slap the ball on the ground through the right side, when the game determines you are going to actually hit a pop up to the first baseman.

In both examples, you execute the act of swinging and pitching and leave the rest up to the games brain.

However, I do like the idea of pitches not being pinpointed and letting some sort of stat let a pitch differ from pinpoint. I've hoped for a system where a guy like Barry Zito can't locate like Maddux.